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Author Topic: Putting your money where Pirate's mouth is.  (Read 68314 times)
hgmichna
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July 17, 2012, 11:40:00 AM
 #461

he never claimed to make money trading, he claimed to use the coins to stabilize the markets so he can sell at a set price. clearly is was showing what could happen if the price was not stable.

If you want to sell and the price has risen, you are happy to sell at the higher price and don't want any stabilization. In fact, your selling would help to stabilize the market price.

If the price has gone down, then what? You first buy to raise the market price, then you sell more than you bought, and that should make you more money?

Great trick! Have you ever tried it? Or what exactly did you mean?
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July 17, 2012, 01:58:55 PM
 #462

he sure said it was him:
Bid wall has disappeared
<pirateat40> well guys, i think i've scared off the sellers. I'm tired and going to call it night and let the bots play.  IRCFrEAK, im pulling the my wall and dumping.... Get ready!


I'm going through the #bitcoin chatlog from yesterday.

Quote
04:31 <pirateat40> i take full responsibility.
04:39 <pirateat40> crashed is != corrected.
04:42 <pirateat40> we don't want another bubble and my charts/triggers were screaming at me.

There's a lot more. But it's a long and chaotic story, wherein the pirate causes a storm in the market.

He makes it quite clear through word and action that he alone was behind yesterday's crazyness.

This was not natural, and had nothing to do with KimDotCom.

Protip:
Quote
[2012-07-17 05:13:52] <pirateat40> I'm just going to say this time.... If you panic buy, you're going to lose.
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July 17, 2012, 02:32:35 PM
 #463

Yes, it is pretty obvious Pirate sold, and it's almost certain he's now "short".

The timing of the sell was good, however, the execution was excessively flashy. Why cause a downspike to 7.5, down to which we already have 25k BTC liquidity again? Sentiment is nowhere near a panic. I don't have an explanation why he should do this, regardless of legitimacy.

Then again, market movements around Pirate rarely make sense to me. No big news in the end. Huh
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August 15, 2012, 09:34:46 AM
 #464

It appears to me Pirate has lost his bet with Vandroiy now.

"New Rates Effective 8.20.2012":
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.0

But the "bet agreement" says:

Quote
BTCST has the right to change the terms of its outstanding deposits at any time, as long as there is advance notice of at least 30 calendar days.

AFAIK he did not announce these new rates on 7.21.2012 or earlier.

I just noticed this yesterday.

That means he changed the rates within less than 30 days after anouncing them. Which is a clear violation of the "bet agreement".

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organofcorti
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Poor impulse control.


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August 15, 2012, 09:50:20 AM
 #465

It appears to me Pirate has lost his bet with Vandroiy now.

"New Rates Effective 8.20.2012":
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.0

But the "bet agreement" says:

Quote
BTCST has the right to change the terms of its outstanding deposits at any time, as long as there is advance notice of at least 30 calendar days.

AFAIK he did not announce these new rates on 7.21.2012 or earlier.

I just noticed this yesterday.

That means he changed the rates within less than 30 days after anouncing them. Which is a clear violation of the "bet agreement".


Hey Vandroiy, I understand you'll be coming into a large amount of btc shortly. I have an investment opportunity you may be interested in ...

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August 15, 2012, 09:53:05 AM
 #466

It appears to me Pirate has lost his bet with Vandroiy now.

"New Rates Effective 8.20.2012":
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.0

But the "bet agreement" says:

Quote
BTCST has the right to change the terms of its outstanding deposits at any time, as long as there is advance notice of at least 30 calendar days.

AFAIK he did not announce these new rates on 7.21.2012 or earlier.

I just noticed this yesterday.

That means he changed the rates within less than 30 days after announcing them. Which is a clear violation of the "bet agreement".


Whoops!

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August 15, 2012, 09:54:26 AM
 #467

It appears to me Pirate has lost his bet with Vandroiy now.


===Change in BTCST ToS===

BTCST has the right to change the terms of its outstanding deposits at any time, as long as there is advance notice of at least 30 calendar days.


Yep, well, this bet ended even quicker than I had expected.

Nanotube is the final arbiter, but this seems like a clear cut win to Vandroiy, according to Pirate's own terms.

If Pirate cares, (and wants to) could he salvage the bet for now
by retracting the previous announcement, and issuing a new one with proper 30 day notice,
before the lower rates are put into effect?

If not: Congrats to Vandroiy on his 5000 BTC (64000 USD) winnings!

Does anyone want to make a statement? Van, nano, pirate? Smiley
Stephen Gornick
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August 15, 2012, 09:56:44 AM
 #468

Does anyone want to make a statement? Van, nano, pirate? Smiley

It is almost like it was planned:

  • Don’t concede the wager and chance the outcome of Aug 14th.

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August 15, 2012, 10:03:22 AM
 #469

Does anyone want to make a statement? Van, nano, pirate? Smiley

It is almost like it was planned:

  • Don’t concede the wager and chance the outcome of Aug 14th.

Ah! There it is. I knew that was a plea to let him out of the bet before he lost it.

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
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Bitcoin Oz
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Wat


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August 15, 2012, 10:22:45 AM
 #470

It appears to me Pirate has lost his bet with Vandroiy now.


===Change in BTCST ToS===

BTCST has the right to change the terms of its outstanding deposits at any time, as long as there is advance notice of at least 30 calendar days.


Yep, well, this bet ended even quicker than I had expected.

Nanotube is the final arbiter, but this seems like a clear cut win to Vandroiy, according to Pirate's own terms.

If Pirate cares, (and wants to) could he salvage the bet for now
by retracting the previous announcement, and issuing a new one with proper 30 day notice,
before the lower rates before the lower rates are put into effect?

If not: Congrats to Vandroiy on his 5000 BTC (64000 USD) winnings!

Does anyone want to make a statement? Van, nano, pirate? Smiley


 Vandroiy won the bet because pirate changed the terms it doesnt matter if he changes them back.

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August 15, 2012, 10:25:55 AM
 #471

Since the terms are not scheduled to change until the 20th, it means the terms haven't changed yet. Vandroiy only wins if Pirate actually executes the changes with fewer than 30 days notice. Pirate can still maintain the bet by moving the change 30 days into the future.
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August 15, 2012, 10:52:48 AM
 #472

Agreed, as long as its not put into effect pirate has another 10 days left to avoid a cut in his profit margins by 5000 BTC....

Wasn´t  it right that  he wanted to avoid by changing terms?? Wink
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August 15, 2012, 10:58:53 AM
 #473

It appears to me Pirate has lost his bet with Vandroiy now.


===Change in BTCST ToS===

BTCST has the right to change the terms of its outstanding deposits at any time, as long as there is advance notice of at least 30 calendar days.


Yep, well, this bet ended even quicker than I had expected.

Nanotube is the final arbiter, but this seems like a clear cut win to Vandroiy, according to Pirate's own terms.

If Pirate cares, (and wants to) could he salvage the bet for now
by retracting the previous announcement, and issuing a new one with proper 30 day notice,
before the lower rates before the lower rates are put into effect?

If not: Congrats to Vandroiy on his 5000 BTC (64000 USD) winnings!

Does anyone want to make a statement? Van, nano, pirate? Smiley


 Vandroiy won the bet because pirate changed the terms it doesnt matter if he changes them back.

I'm afraid you are mistaken. Pirate will lose the bet only if he changes the terms without the required notice - not if he announces a future change of terms without the required notice. The new terms do not come into effect until 8.20.2012 - therefore the terms have not yet changed. If the terms were in effect now, pirate's depositors would already be receiving the lower rate of interest, which clearly they are not.
ErebusBat
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August 15, 2012, 12:07:07 PM
 #474

Does anyone want to make a statement? Van, nano, pirate? Smiley

It is almost like it was planned:

  • Don’t concede the wager and chance the outcome of Aug 14th.

Ah! There it is. I knew that was a plea to let him out of the bet before he lost it.

That doesn't make any sense though, at that time pirate had the opportunity to announce the changes. Why wait?

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August 15, 2012, 12:21:43 PM
 #475

In BTCST ToS, it says the rates can be changed at any times. Pirate didn't change his ToS.

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Wat


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August 15, 2012, 12:26:19 PM
 #476

In BTCST ToS, it says the rates can be changed at any times. Pirate didn't change his ToS.



The bet says the rates not the TOS. If the rates change with less than 30 days notice he loses.

I guess we wait to see when the rates actually change before calling it.

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August 15, 2012, 12:28:53 PM
 #477

In BTCST ToS, it says the rates can be changed at any times. Pirate didn't change his ToS.



The bet says the rates not the TOS. If the rates change with less than 30 days notice he loses.

I guess we wait to see when the rates actually change before calling it.

It says ToS. It's all about interpretation, it is confusing.

If pirate changed ToS 30 days ago: I can change rates at any time. Does it override the bet? Looks like to me.

Quote
BTCST has the right to change the terms of its outstanding deposits at any time, as long as there is advance notice of at least 30 calendar days. Such changes may include changes in promised interest rates (as long as interest rates do not go below zero), changes in interest disbursement frequency (not to exceed 1 month intervals), interest tiers, forced withdrawals. Such changes shall not be construed to be a default event.

The event of dissolution of the BTCST business and return of all owed funds to all account holders, also shall not be construed as a default event.
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August 15, 2012, 12:31:47 PM
 #478

Somehow I wonder if this is what pirate does for entertainment.  Funer than craps.  Get an argument ready then gamble on what the outcome would be.

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August 15, 2012, 03:12:52 PM
 #479

Agreed, as long as its not put into effect pirate has another 10 days left to avoid a cut in his profit margins by 5000 BTC....

It doesn't cut into his profit. Why should the pirate even think about a bet he intended to lose all along?
imsaguy
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August 15, 2012, 03:24:42 PM
 #480

Agreed, as long as its not put into effect pirate has another 10 days left to avoid a cut in his profit margins by 5000 BTC....

It doesn't cut into his profit. Why should the pirate even think about a bet he intended to lose all along?

How do you know what pirate's intentions are/were?

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