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nevafuse (OP)
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July 06, 2012, 03:15:40 PM |
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I'm curious if you pay taxes because you are forced to or because you believe in the benefits it provides. Also, I think this would be the first huge decision people would have to make if bitcoins became popular enough. It would decide the fate of the government as we know it.
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The only reason to limit the block size is to subsidize non-Bitcoin currencies
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"You Asked For Change, We Gave You Coins" -- casascius
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niko
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July 06, 2012, 03:17:53 PM |
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Or if you could live off of cash
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They're there, in their room.
Your mining rig is on fire, yet you're very calm.
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bulanula
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July 06, 2012, 03:20:45 PM |
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Option 3 for me.
Taxes are a fraud just like government !
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bitdragon
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July 06, 2012, 03:32:36 PM |
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no, I would not. I consider Bitcoins to provide Capital gains and those is not taxed where I live. Still need to finalise that though  |
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nevafuse (OP)
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July 06, 2012, 03:54:01 PM |
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Or if you could live off of cash
And if cash had the benefits of bitcoins, I don't think we'd be having this discussion right now. Cash is risky & worth paying taxes to avoid. Bitcoins aren't riskless, but IMO are less risky than cash. I could see large businesses switching over to using bitcoins in the future to save on financial fees. Then it's only a matter of time until they start understating their income. |
The only reason to limit the block size is to subsidize non-Bitcoin currencies
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Hawker
Legendary
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Activity: 1218
Merit: 1001
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July 06, 2012, 04:47:49 PM |
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Option 3 for me.
Taxes are a fraud just like government !
Not where I live. If you happen to live in a place that can't run its public services efficiently, you have my sympathy. |
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bitdragon
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July 06, 2012, 04:52:41 PM |
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Option 3 for me.
Taxes are a fraud just like government !
Not where I live. If you happen to live in a place that can't run its public services efficiently, you have my sympathy. May I ask where that is you live? |
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bulanula
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July 06, 2012, 05:04:30 PM |
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Option 3 for me.
Taxes are a fraud just like government !
Not where I live. If you happen to live in a place that can't run its public services efficiently, you have my sympathy. May I ask where that is you live? UK just like me. I live in London. Potholes everywhere, MP expenses scandal, huge useless incompetent army, crappy NHS healthcare ... it sucks. |
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EhVedadoOAnonimato
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July 06, 2012, 05:17:01 PM |
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I would definitely not want to give my money to thieves, but it's not always as simple as an option.
Even with bitcoin only revenues, if you simply don't declare any income above the exemption threshold, that might look suspicious.
How would you buy anything significant, for example a house, if practically all your savings are undeclared? Perhaps via debt that would be possible but then you'd need to declare some income compatible with the debt you're paying.
Also, if you're just an employee and your employer declares everything he pays you, then being it in bitcoin, cash or whatever it doesn't matter, the taxman will get you.
Anyways, I answered with "depends on the risks".
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sadpandatech
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July 06, 2012, 05:19:27 PM |
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Depends on which taxes you are refering to. Taxes that support the infrastructure that I use to live the modern life I choose, then yes. All that federal crap can eat it...
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If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system.
- GA
It is being worked on by smart people. -DamienBlack
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niko
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July 06, 2012, 05:27:53 PM |
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I voted "yes" - but that assumes a reasonably functioning goverment that mostly represents the interest of the people, provides social care to those who need it, and keeps for-profit businesses out of air, water, and basic healthcare business. Don't laugh.
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They're there, in their room.
Your mining rig is on fire, yet you're very calm.
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myrkul
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July 06, 2012, 05:32:02 PM |
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Option 3 for me.
Taxes are a fraud just like government !
Not where I live. If you happen to live in a place that can't run its public services efficiently, you have my sympathy. I also chose option three. If it can run efficiently, it can run as a for-profit, and doesn't need to force people to pay. |
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nevafuse (OP)
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July 06, 2012, 05:37:51 PM |
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I would definitely not want to give my money to thieves, but it's not always as simple as an option.
Even with bitcoin only revenues, if you simply don't declare any income above the exemption threshold, that might look suspicious.
How would you buy anything significant, for example a house, if practically all your savings are undeclared? Perhaps via debt that would be possible but then you'd need to declare some income compatible with the debt you're paying.
Also, if you're just an employee an your employer declares everything he pays you, then being it in bitcoin, cash or whatever it doesn't matter, the taxman will get you.
Anyways, I answered with "depends on the risks".
You definitely bring up a lot of good points. There are already a ton of people that understate their income (think people in the service industry). But I doubt the IRS cares much about them anyways because they don't really make that much to begin with. It would definitely be more difficult for the middle class because they are the ones making larger purchases that could come up on the IRS radar. It'll probably be very gradual - kinda like bittorrent. A couple people get caught & fined in the beginning, but eventually there are so many people doing it, it is pointless to go after individuals. Also that lack of revenue is going to start affecting the IRS budget, forcing them to downsize, making it even more difficult to catch people. Once it gets to a certain level, larger transactions like houses will be a drop in the bucket compared to large corporations understating billions. But I can only hope & dream. Depends on which taxes you are refering to. Taxes that support the infrastructure that I use to live the modern life I choose, then yes. All that federal crap can eat it...
If I could allocate my tax dollars, bitcoin won't seem near as revolutionizing. I voted "yes" - but that assumes a reasonably functioning goverment that mostly represents the interest of the people, provides social care to those who need it, and keeps for-profit businesses out of air, water, and basic healthcare business. Don't laugh.
I'd consider paying taxes too if it worked that way. But it doesn't. And continuing to support it by paying your taxes is only going to keep the status quo. |
The only reason to limit the block size is to subsidize non-Bitcoin currencies
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Hawker
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July 06, 2012, 07:07:28 PM |
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Option 3 for me.
Taxes are a fraud just like government !
Not where I live. If you happen to live in a place that can't run its public services efficiently, you have my sympathy. May I ask where that is you live? UK just like me. I live in London. Potholes everywhere, MP expenses scandal, huge useless incompetent army, crappy NHS healthcare ... it sucks. Crappy NHS healthcare in a city with some of the best private hospitals in the world? Go private and be happy! Its far cheaper to go private in the UK that it is in the US. |
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ribuck
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July 06, 2012, 07:54:57 PM |
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Crappy NHS healthcare in a city with some of the best private hospitals in the world? Go private and be happy! Most people are reluctant to pay twice for healthcare. When you're already paying for the NHS through tax, it's no so easy to pay for it privately too. Although stories like this make me consider private healthcare: "A desperate hospital patient who died of thirst after he was denied vital medication rang police and begged them to bring him a drink, an inquest heard today ... he became so delirious he was forced to call 999 to ask for help ... Officers raced to St George’s Hospital in Tooting, south London, but were turned away by staff who insisted Mr Gorny was fine, Westminster Coroner’s Court heard." http://updatednews.ca/2012/07/02/hospital-patient-22-died-of-thirst/ |
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Hawker
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July 06, 2012, 07:59:26 PM
Last edit: July 06, 2012, 08:10:40 PM by Hawker |
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Crappy NHS healthcare in a city with some of the best private hospitals in the world? Go private and be happy! Most people are reluctant to pay twice for healthcare. When you're already paying for the NHS through tax, it's no so easy to pay for it privately too. Although stories like this make me consider private healthcare: "A desperate hospital patient who died of thirst after he was denied vital medication rang police and begged them to bring him a drink, an inquest heard today ... he became so delirious he was forced to call 999 to ask for help ... Officers raced to St George’s Hospital in Tooting, south London, but were turned away by staff who insisted Mr Gorny was fine, Westminster Coroner’s Court heard." http://updatednews.ca/2012/07/02/hospital-patient-22-died-of-thirst/Even with the tax paid, its cheaper to go private in the UK than the US. You can get a very good scheme for less than £100 per month. The big issue is quality - for most operations the NHS is actually better. When my first child was due, my wife had complications and the doctor advised us to use the Royal Berks hospital rather than BUPA Dunedin because they handle 150 births a week and are better for difficult births. On the other hand, in BUPA Dunedin, you could get a private room so it wasn't a complete waste of money. |
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cryptoanarchist
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July 06, 2012, 08:03:35 PM |
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F*** NO!
I barely do now!
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I'm grumpy!!
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ThiagoCMC
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฿itcoin: Currency of Resistance!
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July 06, 2012, 08:07:58 PM |
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NO!
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RodeoX
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The revolution will be monetized!
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July 06, 2012, 08:09:24 PM |
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I would pay capitol gains on appreciation, but only if I can claim losses. I would not pay "income" tax on bitcoin however.
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Scott J
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July 07, 2012, 02:12:05 PM |
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I too would pay taxes. I think taxation is necessary one way or another, I only question the amount needed to be taxed.
This. The NHS is one of the examples where public provision of a service through forced taxation is a necessary evil. |
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