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[assiusplay]

Cool so it sounds like based on the announcement, they're gathering info on the issue and trying to reach the most effective solution.

What makes you think there is wrongdoing involved in fixing the issue. Do you know how a company works? Have you ever managed a system? Be glad it sounds like they plan on launching a strong effort to locate the most high impact instances of the issue and be glad it seems repayment is part of that plan.

I know dumb americunts get used to companies shitting out money indiscriminately based on possible technical errors, but don't forget these are very important to finances of a company in a space dealing with a highly volatile currency. It's industry standard to use great caution in confirming problems prematurely, especially when they are not frequent. If you think BTC price doesn't play a part in the timeline of addressing this issue, you are an idiot and should do some research on risk management before you move your money somewhere.

Anyway, it sounds like the plan is to make sure players are compensated right away for Bitcoin Cash, which can be calculated very easily and paid out using a rudimentary and secure system. There are no ambiguities and it's great that they're doing it. That can be done with a clear timeline and should be a priority as a gesture of good will while research continues. I am glad there isn't some sort of wacky attempt at explaining the issue before they can fully understand it.

Make your own judgements on whether or not the site is trustworthy. It's not your normal poker site and they are swinging for the fences with the variety of games they offer. It's also not the same kind of highly censored site (which goes against the idea of BTC) relying on advertisement money to pay for expensive systems. Understand what kind of community you are supporting and your expectations, as well as criticisms, will evolve accordingly.

Marlais, this is why women shouldn't be in tech.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h2FyvQ4T0Q

[1715209612]

1715209612

[1715209612]

1715209612

[rdbase]

Has anyone here received any form of higher education? That has to be the cringiest thing I've ever read, marlais ^

Assiusplay, I have a teaching degree in secondary math and I think Kook and Marlais make very valid points.  Of course we deserve our bitcoin back.  I have probably given them 10 coins in rake over the years. Also, all of the tables that I started that have generated much more than that. I am sympathetic to their financial troubles, but it's not okay for us to be cheated by a software bug. I specifically remember a big hand where this happened to me. It actually weighed on my mind for the rest of the session as I tried to figure out why I wasn't up more chips. I looked at the visual hand history but assumed it must be right. I never thought I was being cheated. I don't think what SWC did was intentional but it's wrong for them to hide this from everyone for months.  They need to make a payment plan and give more specifics if they want to succeed.

[assiusplay]

I was editing my post. Sorry.  You should check it out. It may trigger you even more than the first read


"Assiusplay, I have a teaching degree in secondary math" - Do you look back on saying this to a man named assiusplay and feel validated? Lol. Anyway, do you think that's relevant in addressing the financial implications of this issue and making payouts in a fair, exhaustive way? To me it sounds like the issue was addressed privately in past, and they made adjustments based on the idea of it being a one-off or recently emerging issue. It makes sense to be concerned that it may have gone on for longer. I am interested in the subject. I just don't like smearing shit everywhere for a site that doesn't have the corporate backing that the heavily censored, monetized with interests other than poker, and bureaucratized ones do.

"It's not okay for us to be cheated by a software bug"
I challenge you to live in a world where you imagine everything you say to be written on your tombstone. Youll find a huge jump in quality and maturity of your opinions.
 
In other news:
You're not on a high horse, you're riding a giraffe marlais. Get off of the giraffe.

[mrcuzamano]

Has anyone here received any form of higher education? That has to be the cringiest thing I've ever read, marlais ^

Just read it yourself. Think about some of your points. You walk back on your more inflammatory statements multiple times, and somehow you come to conclusion that site is not safe to keep funds on, without even a hint of technical evidence to back it up. I've never had a problem with my funds being lost on this site, and I trust that any actual issue of scale will come to surface on its own. Sigh

I literally cant. I'm so anxious and threatened right now.

Anyway I came here to say all this bullshit is just the result of people thinking they might have money floating around out there when BTC is at an all time high. I don't actually know what is going on, but as a player I'm willing to reject any form of compensation the site tries to provide me. Sorry the peasants feel the need to wield their pitchforks until BTC drops again, but I'm happy to run a car right through it 

I've been perfectly happy with the level of rake, even if miscalculated once in a while. Nobody here has yet to talk numbers, provide any analysis; it's just a few cunty long time players of the site trying to find something to do other than drink Smirnoff through a straw.

Shut the fuck up

have you received a form of higher education you pretentious cunt? because if you had and you had any reading comprehension skills, you would have read that they werent OVERRAKING pots, it was a bug that if a player LEAVES In the middle of the hand, money would go missing(not missing, but into swcs ownership(poof) )  THEY ARE STRAIGHT UP STEALING MONEY FROM PLAYERS AND HAVE KNOWN ABOUT IT FOR ABOUT A YEAR, AT LEAST.

and just like the promises for development updates, the promises for returning player funds are just as empty because the site is run by people who are at best incompetent buffoons, and at worst straight up thieves.

the fact that they are trying to make it sound like it was an "overraking" problem shows you how deceptive they are. if you want to keep your moneyo n there, go ahead. But I've never even seen you on the site and I've been playing since coin was 29$ a coin, I remember the old management, and I remember how my 100k+ Krill is literally fucking worthless right now because they straight up cut their "guaranteed lifetime krill freerolls" until they no longer exist without any other way for people to get value back for the reward points that they earned.

[mrcuzamano]

Cool so it sounds like based on the announcement, they're gathering info on the issue and trying to reach the most effective solution.

What makes you think there is wrongdoing involved in fixing the issue. Do you know how a company works? Have you ever managed a system? Be glad it sounds like they plan on launching a strong effort to locate the most high impact instances of the issue and be glad it seems repayment is part of that plan.

I know dumb americunts get used to companies shitting out money indiscriminately based on possible technical errors, but don't forget these are very important to finances of a company in a space dealing with a highly volatile currency. It's industry standard to use great caution in confirming problems prematurely, especially when they are not frequent. If you think BTC price doesn't play a part in the timeline of addressing this issue, you are an idiot and should do some research on risk management before you move your money somewhere.

Anyway, it sounds like the plan is to make sure players are compensated right away for Bitcoin Cash, which can be calculated very easily and paid out using a rudimentary and secure system. There are no ambiguities and it's great that they're doing it. That can be done with a clear timeline and should be a priority as a gesture of good will while research continues. I am glad there isn't some sort of wacky attempt at explaining the issue before they can fully understand it.

Make your own judgements on whether or not the site is trustworthy. It's not your normal poker site and they are swinging for the fences with the variety of games they offer. It's also not the same kind of highly censored site (which goes against the idea of BTC) relying on advertisement money to pay for expensive systems. Understand what kind of community you are supporting and your expectations, as well as criticisms, will evolve accordingly.

Marlais, this is why women shouldn't be in tech.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h2FyvQ4T0Q

sure, you can take the advice of some random nobody who I've never seen on the site, or the advice of players that have been there longer than the current management and have actually seen what the site was and what it is now. good americunt line by the way, you fucking kiwi(and yea, I know you're not from new zeland you aussie cunt, Im just an americunt and I couldn't give a fuck about your shitty country). I like how you're posting ben shapiro videos by the way when your country is going to shit by the way, you guys bend over for your government and take anything they give you and say thank you sir, may I have another?

and I don't even like Marlias, but you're a cunt.
 

[mrcuzamano]

5.  Is SWC insolvent?  Would it bankrupt the site to repay stolen funds? I see that the guarantees on the overkrills were lowered again a few days ago, while the rake caps and minimum withdrawals have remained unchanged. This, in addition to SWC cutting back every other player promotion on the site (leaderboard, high-krill krillrolls), makes me presume that the site is losing money. What happens when you're raking less than your overhead costs? Are you going to just turn off the servers when your BTC faucet runs dry, thus turning the bug into an exit scam?

They've publicly said that they haven't made a profit since they took over from Micon.  I wouldn't expect the stolen money to be returned to the players anytime soon, especially at the current price of bitcoin.  I wish all the affected players good luck.

are you fucking kidding me? they havent made a profit since they took over? are you seriously that retarded?

[assiusplay]

Please excuse Mr Cuzamano. He is an alcoholic and often gambles all his money on a single table. He thinks Newtown didn't happen and can't stop talking about it in chat.

Also you are wrong. I am not nobody. I am OG. Reread my message and try to properly respond to it without gargling mt dew sailor jerry. Technical issues suck. Be fucking patient. You grew up in a pseudo capitalist society for way too long hillbilly

[mrcuzamano]

Please excuse Mr Cuzamano. He is an alcoholic and often gambles all his money on a single table. He thinks Newtown didn't happen and can't stop talking about it in chat.

Also you are wrong. I am not nobody. I am OG. Reread my message and try to properly respond to it without gargling mt dew sailor jerry. Technical issues suck. Be fucking patient. You grew up in a pseudo capitalist society for way too long hillbilly

yea, I know now that you are myz94, so I'm going to stop feeding the troll.

[kookswc]

An update regarding concerns listed above, Bitcoin Cash, and future development
Over-Raked and Under-Raked Pots
Some months ago we discovered a system bug where pots were both over-raked and under-raked. We will make no adjustment for under-raked pots and will fully refund over-raked pots. The bug happened rarely and did not affect many players. This process will include a full auditing of our hand history system and will be resource intensive. The scale of this issue was small, and will be addressed in due time.

I agree, this is not an adequate update. How do you know that this was a rare problem that was small in scale if you haven't run the numbers? Exactly how much money needs to go missing before SWC makes this a priority?

Part of the reason that players kept mum about this bug as long as they did is because some players were purposely exploiting the bug to screw over other players and it was assumed that more people would exploit it if the issue was widely known. You also faded a couple of kook's more important questions about the site's solvency.

I would like answers to the following questions:

1. Can you please specify when the bug was introduced and fixed both the first and second times? I have heard speculation that the bug was present since the inception of the current site, was initially fixed sometime in 2016, and then re-fixed in early April of 2017. However, it would be very helpful to know exactly which hands were affected by this bug. When the bug was discovered and fixed the first time, were the affected players reimbursed or even notified at that time? Why not?

2. Will SWC be releasing a script (the one that's already been written) to allow players to calculate what they are owed from their personal HHs? Some players already know what they're owed, while the rest of us have no idea. There are a few players that are writing scripts from scratch to find out, but it grinds my gears that you have a script already written that you are not making available to your players. If this is such a rare problem that did not affect many players, why are you being so cagey about telling people what they're owed or even letting them figure it out on their own? Wouldn't it be better for SWC to release an official script rather than have six different un-vetted versions floating around? This reminds me of when carlo88 had to write and distribute a script to fix your broken HHs because SWC devs never got around to it (they still haven't gotten around to it). Why are your players being forced to do the job of your developers?

3. Will you make HHs available to players from the relevant dates when the bug was active? I have heard that people have written to support asking for their HHs so they could make their own determination of how rare and insignificant this bug was only to have their requests denied. This makes me uncomfortable because it means that if players didn't notice that the default configuration on SWC is to not save your HHs, they will have no way to independently verify that they were repaid in full.

4. Can we have a better ETA than "in due time"? Your phrasing makes me think this is an issue you are currently devoting zero resources to. Are you sitting on this problem until the price of coin drops? I am frustrated that when you learned about the underraking bug from your players that you owe, the dev team was all over it in less than 12 hours, while you expect your players to give you indefinite-length interest-free loans for the amounts missing from their winnings. So, to quote kook:

5.  Is SWC insolvent?  Would it bankrupt the site to repay stolen funds? I see that the guarantees on the overkrills were lowered again a few days ago, while the rake caps and minimum withdrawals have remained unchanged. This, in addition to SWC cutting back every other player promotion on the site (leaderboard, high-krill krillrolls), makes me presume that the site is losing money. What happens when you're raking less than your overhead costs? Are you going to just turn off the servers when your BTC faucet runs dry, thus turning the bug into an exit scam?

Right now, I think that restoring your players' trust in the site's ability to spread fair games and repay players affected by software bugs in a timely manner should take precedence over any new feature development, including the new Windows client and BCH. If you need to take the site down for a week to perform the audit, do it. SWC has a serious credibility problem that isn't going to go away until people start seeing some actions backing up your promises and better communication in general. I can't recommend SWC as a trustworthy site and won't be playing raked games there until balances are made whole.

TL;DR: SWC hasn't reimbursed players for misappropriated funds for a minimum of 4 months, if not years. I don't recommend playing or keeping funds on SWC until they can account for the missing coins and pay back their players in full.

In retrospect, I regret originally referring to this as an "overraking" bug.

As you can see from the below HH (player names removed), we aren't talking about pots being overraked by a few cents, we're talking about pots being shorted by an order of magnitude more than the correct rake. For example, this pot was raked 0.18 mBTC in addition to player4 being shorted 2.50 mBTC because player2 left before the hand was over. At current prices, this single hand was "overraked" by about $10 USD and they were "raking" close to 27%.

You will also note that the timestamp on this hand shows it was played a full 4 days after SWC said that the bug had been addressed in this thread, so either SWC didn't consider it important enough to restart the server for at least 4 days after they patched it or the bug still isn't fixed.

We are deploying a fix to this bug with our next restart.
We had thought to have fixed this, but after a subsequent patch was applied it seems to have come back.

Code:

Hand #15436219: Pot Limit Big O - 0.50/1
2017-04-06 09:40:37
Table 'Deep Giant 1' Seat 4 is the button
Seat 1: player1 (211.37)
Seat 4: player2 (310.19)
Seat 5: player3 (552.98)
Seat 6: player4 (135.85)
player3: posts the small blind 8960060
player4: posts the big blind 8960032
Dealt to player4: [7s Tc Jh Kd Ts]
player1 raises to 2.50
player2 calls 2.50
player3 calls 2.50
player4 calls 2.50
*** FLOP *** [6s 3c 6d]
player3 checks
player4 checks
player1 checks
player2 checks
*** TURN *** [6s 3c 6d] [9s]
player3 checks
player4 bets 4.87
player1 folds
player2 folds
player3 folds
player4 wins pot (7.32)
*** SUMMARY ***
Seat 1: player1 (208.87) -2.50
Seat 5: player3 (550.48) -2.50
Seat 6: player4 (140.67) +4.82
Rake 0.18

Here's another hand where the pot should have been 52.65 mBTC but only 29.25 mBTC was given to the winner. The pot was "overraked" by 23.4 mBTC (~$93 USD) and they're "raking" 44%.

Code:

Hand #14410052: Pot Limit Big O - 0.25/0.50
2017-01-29 06:09:24
Table 'Deep Monster' Seat 6 is the button
Seat 3: player1 (71.31)
Seat 4: player2 (133.26)
Seat 5: player3 (146.90)
Seat 6: player4 (99.16)
player1: posts the small blind 4701836
player2: posts the big blind 4701808
Dealt to player3: [4s 7c 6c 2d Qh]
player3 folds
player4 raises to 1.50
player1 calls 1.50
player2 raises to 6
player4 calls 6
player1 raises to 24
player2 folds
player4 calls 24
 FLOP  [3d Jd As]
player1 checks
player4 checks
 TURN  [3d Jd As] [8h]
player1 bets 47.31, and is all in
player4 folds
player1 wins pot (29.25)
 SUMMARY 
Seat 3: player1 (76.56) +5.25
Seat 4: player2 (127.26) -6
Seat 5: player3 (146.90)
Rake 0.75

bump.

We're still waiting for a real reply, SWC.  Please provide information that is useful and true.

[kookswc]

An update regarding concerns listed above, Bitcoin Cash, and future development


SwC Poker Client Development
We understand and agree client development has taken a long time. SwC Poker is run by a small but dedicated team. Our development resources are limited, but we are working steadily towards client software that will run on multiple platforms and provide a better playing experience than our current Windows only client.

Bitcoin Cash
We expect to announce a system to claim your Bitcoin Cash tokens within days. This has taxed our already limited development resources but we felt it was too much value to our players to ignore. Once the system is ready, we will announce so on this forum, on our website, and on our twitter account @swcpoker

Over-Raked and Under-Raked Pots
Some months ago we discovered a system bug where pots were both over-raked and under-raked. We will make no adjustment for under-raked pots and will fully refund over-raked pots. The bug happened rarely and did not affect many players. This process will include a full auditing of our hand history system and will be resource intensive. The scale of this issue was small, and will be addressed in due time.

Dearest SWC,

You maintain "the bug happened rarely and did not affect many players," however, it's since been revealed that at least one of your players knew about this bug, and was deliberately ejecting from seats just to punish his opponents, knowing they'd be cheated out of pots.  I will not publlcly expose that player's identity, though perhaps he will speak up himself and strengthen my testimony.

It did not happen rarely.

Many players were affected.

It's simply dishonest to call this an overraking bug.  You misappropriated an enormous amount of money from your players, and you have not proven your solvency to repay them.

The default settings of the SWC client are to NOT save hand history.  Has SWC saved hand history, or have they shredded the evidence of their wrongdoing for the past two+ years?

You have not given a satisfactory answer about anything, SWC.

Yours truly,
Kook

[donk4u]

So glad I left the site , Still good for lols keep the faith kook is mookie chat banned forever now? I refuse to patronize a site that doesnt allow me to say nigger.  I saw where they gave a guy who was hit with bug a 100 k krill account so lol for so many reasons. Still showing 14 peops at peak traffic with  the same150 people in the chat rooms no doubt. How is that broke nigger odeano doing? I can't believe bitcoin over 4k. 

I bet the man79 still playing lolz.

[SwC_Poker]

Bitcoin Cash Update
Regarding Bitcoin Cash, we have begun processing BCH claims and have sent the first batch of BCH payments. Please initiate an email to bch@swcpoker.eu if you had a balance during the 8/1 snapshot. Full details can be found here: https://swcpoker.eu/swc-bitcoin-cash-distribution/


Over-Raked Pots Update
SwC Poker has prioritized this and will make automatic refunds to affected players. Refunds will include a corresponding amount of Bitcoin Cash, credited as SwC chips. We must ask player patience while we complete the investigation and calculation of refunds.

[mrcuzamano]

Bitcoin Cash Update
Regarding Bitcoin Cash, we have begun processing BCH claims and have sent the first batch of BCH payments. Please initiate an email to bch@swcpoker.eu if you had a balance during the 8/1 snapshot. Full details can be found here: https://swcpoker.eu/swc-bitcoin-cash-distribution/


Over-Raked Pots Update
SwC Poker has prioritized this and will make automatic refunds to affected players. Refunds will include a corresponding amount of Bitcoin Cash, credited as SwC chips. We must ask player patience while we complete the investigation and calculation of refunds.

how about my friends account with all my affiliate payments you wont transfer over? Will my friend be reimbursed the 20+coins he's owed?

[betudontbet]

Looks like this is the biggest poker room p2p related to BTC and as I read the site is not as good as it was... is it safe to deposit here ?

[YepImNaked]

Looks like this is the biggest poker room p2p related to BTC and as I read the site is not as good as it was... is it safe to deposit here ?

I still play on SwC almost daily and have made two withdrawals from the site since Saturday.  Both were processed in less than three hours.  As easy as it is to move coins on and off the site, there's no reason to keep more than what you need for a session on there anyway.  The games are noticeably soft lately as well.  Take that for what you will.

- Naked

[assiusplay]

I too can vouch that I've been crushing all these fools on every 2 & 3 chip tourneys on the regular. Doesn't matter if BTC is $4000, 2 chip tourneys on swc are like Christmas without all the spiritual implications. Also I heard Hillary's emails play there.  Good night.

I love you.

[Dogedigital]

Over-Raked Pots Update
SwC Poker has prioritized this and will make automatic refunds to affected players. Refunds will include a corresponding amount of Bitcoin Cash, credited as SwC chips. We must ask player patience while we complete the investigation and calculation of refunds.

Is there a list that will be made available on who lost what? 

I like SWC and they've always been good to me.  I'm fairly certain this happened to me quite a few times (I caught some and reported).  Just curious to see how much was taken.  I don't mind waiting.

[Steelfox7]

Are you going to make an OS X version for your poker?  I remember being able to play in a browser but unfortunately, that has changed.  Having a mobile client would increase traffic too.

[ocimjr]

Kind of getting the OFC settling a little mroe, still don't like it really, but probably not the place to talk abotu it.

Probably not going to deposit or do anything but dick around on micros/freerolls still more stuff gets done, I'm sure there will be more traffic there. Timing out due to system issues during ofc/p is too big a penalty for real money.

That said, I was in a sng during the reset this morning and it's still open and paused. IF you guys could close it and refund the fee that would be great. The combo of my OCD and "You are still seated at the following tables" is giving me a headache.

[RUchamp]

I've commissioned a script to be written to find the specific discrepancies within the hand histories that will show specific hands effected by this bug AND corrupted hand histories, as to enable a player to request the proper hand history should a hand be corrupted. I will not be publically releasing the script.

Though I've personally asked and been denied my accounts' hand histories by SWC for no other reason besides it apparently being in the wrong format (sketchy sketchy), there are many players with their complete hand histories and I will be more than willing to run through players' hand histories and give them the hand numbers it spits out with the discrepancy. This wont show what is owed to players, just the hands effected by this specific bug and corrupted hand histories. I will obviously not disclose anyone's hands to other players, and will for the most part be doing this for free, unless I decide otherwise (looking at you, rungood).

The incessant non-answering of SWC support and their obvious incompetence or gross negligence, with intent or otherwise, has driven me and many other players to the point of absolute distrust. The purpose of this script is to be able to verify with a third party to get rid of the necessary trust in SWC we have had to endure up to this point and to put into quantitative terms this entire situation. To argue this is unnecessary is ridiculous at this point, and I do not trust the SWC at this point in time. The fact that SWC could be insolvent is a very real possibility.

We will know precisely what we are owed, and specifically where we are owed it.

Better start formatting full player hand histories, SWC support, as this is coming to a head and you are indebted to us in more ways than one.

To reiterate, there was a bug in which funds went missing from pots, so the winners of those hands were shorted money. This bug has happened on two separate occasions, once somewhere in 2015 until and undisclosed time, and once again sometime around April of 2017. For both instances players were not notified, SWC did not freeze traffic, they did not make a public statement regarding the issue, and never gave a specific timeframe of when it started or when a fix was implemented, and have not credited funds. Even to this day they email us back with non-answers and little information and withholding hand histories. This gross negligence and misappropriation of player funds is criminal in all sense of the word.

Regards,

~RUchamp