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VJain
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May 17, 2013, 02:08:45 AM |
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Update
So we feel that it is most responsible to let the shareholders decide how to do with the abundant Bitcoins.
How will you be taking in input? Will it be through an email based vote per share? Will it be by boardmembers? |
Making Apps and Websites for people. I charge reasonable rates ($30-40/hour in BTC).
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friedcat (OP)
Donator
Legendary
 Offline
Activity: 848
Merit: 1005
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May 17, 2013, 02:10:12 AM |
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Update
So we feel that it is most responsible to let the shareholders decide how to do with the abundant Bitcoins.
How will you be taking in input? Will it be through an email based vote per share? Will it be by boardmembers? We mean pay them to the shareholders and let them have the total control. |
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furuknap
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May 17, 2013, 02:10:36 AM |
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Update
The mass production of Block Erupter USB is to be done today. Busy testing and packaging will start.
About the argument of dividend payments, our view is that we will distribute the net income after necessary costs are excluded and funds for foreseeable future (expansion, gen-2 chips) are reserved. Bitcoin is already an investment itself having a great potential. Any investment, no matter how profitable, based on "turning Bitcoins to fiat first" requires double consideration. We can invest the RMBs to bonds and they are almost bound to be more profitable than just holding the RMBs, but we can never say the same to Bitcoins.
So we feel that it is most responsible to let the shareholders decide how to do with the abundant Bitcoins. We will of course find other investments (which are focused on helping the Bitcoin economy therefore benefit all Bitcoin holders), but they are all involved in different risk and return model than a mining/mining hardware company. The shareholders of ASICMINER are in principle not supposed to bear the new different risks on doing other business than Bitfountain's. So if there are new investments, they will be as new adventures, in new collaboration structures, and after a significant period of time since ASICMINER is always the most important job for us to do before the company could gradually run itself with a little less founder involvement.
Thanks for the clarification and update. As one of the critics of the dividend policy, I would like to stress that I am still bullish about ASICMiner, but that I think a more modest dividend policy would benefit the company better in the long term. In the short term, high (and incredible) dividends drive share prices up on expectation of future dividends to a point where early investors will have no way of exceeding their yield from sale through dividend. A hard correction, regardless of how fair in terms of stock trading, will taint the stock and company and can make it difficult to secure trust in the share. Volatility is good for gamblers, not so much for investors. At this point, if you stick with your expectations of getting 10% of the hashing network on average over the next 3.5 years, the real yield is around 5% per year where most people see ten times as much in a short period and buy based on that. As far as I can see, there have been no fundamental changes in your company that would warrant a 50% increase in company value over the previous week. I believe the market would calm down if you were to publish those previously announced financial reports so that we have better insight into earnings and capacity for future earnings and sales. .b |
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philipma1957
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 4102
Merit: 7764
'The right to privacy matters'
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May 17, 2013, 02:10:55 AM |
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Update
The mass production of Block Erupter USB is to be done today. Busy testing and packaging will start.
About the argument of dividend payments, our view is that we will distribute the net income after necessary costs are excluded and funds for foreseeable future (expansion, gen-2 chips) are reserved. Bitcoin is already an investment itself having a great potential. Any investment, no matter how profitable, based on "turning Bitcoins to fiat first" requires double consideration. We can invest the RMBs to bonds and they are almost bound to be more profitable than just holding the RMBs, but we can never say the same to Bitcoins.
So we feel that it is most responsible to let the shareholders decide how to do with the abundant Bitcoins. We will of course find other investments (which are focused on helping the Bitcoin economy therefore benefit all Bitcoin holders), but they are all involved in different risk and return model than a mining/mining hardware company. The shareholders of ASICMINER are in principle not supposed to bear the new different risks on doing other business than Bitfountain's. So if there are new investments, they will be as new adventures, in new collaboration structures, and after a significant period of time since ASICMINER is always the most important job for us to do before the company could gradually run itself with a little less founder involvement.
thank you for this policy. also thank you for making an effort to care for and feed the golden goose instead of killing it off. and finally thank you for allowing us to earn some of those nice golden eggs. |
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stripykitteh
Legendary
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Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001
CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!
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May 17, 2013, 02:11:01 AM |
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Update
So we feel that it is most responsible to let the shareholders decide how to do with the abundant Bitcoins. We will of course find other investments (which are focused on helping the Bitcoin economy therefore benefit all Bitcoin holders), but they are all involved in different risk and return model than a mining/mining hardware company. The shareholders of ASICMINER are in principle not supposed to bear the new different risks on doing other business than Bitfountain's. So if there are new investments, they will be as new adventures, in new collaboration structures, and after a significant period of time since ASICMINER is always the most important job for us to do before the company could gradually run itself with a little less founder involvement.
Yes, thanks for addressing this point. It's what I was expecting you to say. Existing and prospective investors in ASICMINER can make their investment decisions based on the premise that ASICMINER will run in its current form for the foreseeable future, and that earnings are only retained insofar as they are needed for the company's own current and planned operations. |
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stripykitteh
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Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001
CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!
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May 17, 2013, 02:15:38 AM |
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Oh friedcat, if you're still there.
Do you have any news you can reveal about the blade sales? Or is it something we'll have to estimate ourselves based on ongoing dividends? (seeing as mining income is currently well-predicted thanks to SmiGueL's graphs)
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philipma1957
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 4102
Merit: 7764
'The right to privacy matters'
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May 17, 2013, 02:25:11 AM |
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Update
The mass production of Block Erupter USB is to be done today. Busy testing and packaging will start.
About the argument of dividend payments, our view is that we will distribute the net income after necessary costs are excluded and funds for foreseeable future (expansion, gen-2 chips) are reserved. Bitcoin is already an investment itself having a great potential. Any investment, no matter how profitable, based on "turning Bitcoins to fiat first" requires double consideration. We can invest the RMBs to bonds and they are almost bound to be more profitable than just holding the RMBs, but we can never say the same to Bitcoins.
So we feel that it is most responsible to let the shareholders decide how to do with the abundant Bitcoins. We will of course find other investments (which are focused on helping the Bitcoin economy therefore benefit all Bitcoin holders), but they are all involved in different risk and return model than a mining/mining hardware company. The shareholders of ASICMINER are in principle not supposed to bear the new different risks on doing other business than Bitfountain's. So if there are new investments, they will be as new adventures, in new collaboration structures, and after a significant period of time since ASICMINER is always the most important job for us to do before the company could gradually run itself with a little less founder involvement.
Thanks for the clarification and update. As one of the critics of the dividend policy, I would like to stress that I am still bullish about ASICMiner, but that I think a more modest dividend policy would benefit the company better in the long term. In the short term, high (and incredible) dividends drive share prices up on expectation of future dividends to a point where early investors will have no way of exceeding their yield from sale through dividend. A hard correction, regardless of how fair in terms of stock trading, will taint the stock and company and can make it difficult to secure trust in the share. Volatility is good for gamblers, not so much for investors. At this point, if you stick with your expectations of getting 10% of the hashing network on average over the next 3.5 years, the real yield is around 5% per year where most people see ten times as much in a short period and buy based on that. As far as I can see, there have been no fundamental changes in your company that would warrant a 50% increase in company value over the previous week. I believe the market would calm down if you were to publish those previously announced financial reports so that we have better insight into earnings and capacity for future earnings and sales. .b funny how different people can think about dividends I see asicminer and BTC as a 3 year deal. when the halfing comes I expect btc to die. I don't foresee a 10 or 20 year plan. I call it a golden goose. I think the goose will be dead in 3 to 5 years. This is due to the 50 percent now 25 percent of the coins means only 25 percent left in 2016. lets say AM stays in the 20 to 25% share of the total hash. so 2016 25% of the coins left then 2018 12.5%. I can not see mining being the push to this market. I also can't see normal big business allowing btc to grow to 1000usd a coin. I think of this as a dwindling resource that I am getting a small piece of it. Cutting dividends would be like hoarding the golden eggs of our goose. I am happy that the 'cat' is doing what he is doing. I intend to enjoy yhe ride for 2 to 4 years. |
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furuknap
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May 17, 2013, 02:28:15 AM |
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funny how different people can think about dividends I see asicminer and BTC as a 3 year deal. when the halfing comes I expect btc to die. I don't foresee a 10 or 20 year plan. I call it a golden goose. I think the goose will be dead in 3 to 5 years. This is due to the 50 percent now 25 percent of the coins means only 25 percent left in 2016.
lets say AM stays in the 20 to 25% share of the total hash. so 2016 25% of the coins left then 2018 12.5%. I can not see mining being the push to this market. I also can't see normal big business allowing btc to grow to 1000usd a coin. I think of this as a dwindling resource that I am getting a small piece of it. Cutting dividends would be like hoarding the golden eggs of our goose. I am happy that the 'cat' is doing what he is doing. I intend to enjoy yhe ride for 2 to 4 years.
That attitude is perfectly aligned with the halving in 2016, but sadly, it means that people that buy in now will not recouperate their investments unless AM has a significantly higher share of the network than they expect. .b |
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freedomno1
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1090
Learning the troll avoidance button :)
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May 17, 2013, 02:37:32 AM |
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Update
The mass production of Block Erupter USB is to be done today. Busy testing and packaging will start.
About the argument of dividend payments, our view is that we will distribute the net income after necessary costs are excluded and funds for foreseeable future (expansion, gen-2 chips) are reserved. Bitcoin is already an investment itself having a great potential. Any investment, no matter how profitable, based on "turning Bitcoins to fiat first" requires double consideration. We can invest the RMBs to bonds and they are almost bound to be more profitable than just holding the RMBs, but we can never say the same to Bitcoins.
So we feel that it is most responsible to let the shareholders decide how to do with the abundant Bitcoins. We will of course find other investments (which are focused on helping the Bitcoin economy therefore benefit all Bitcoin holders), but they are all involved in different risk and return model than a mining/mining hardware company. The shareholders of ASICMINER are in principle not supposed to bear the new different risks on doing other business than Bitfountain's. So if there are new investments, they will be as new adventures, in new collaboration structures, and after a significant period of time since ASICMINER is always the most important job for us to do before the company could gradually run itself with a little less founder involvement.
Thanks for clarifying the company's position if the company ever finds other investments and is willing to take on that risk, I will be watching it as well  |
Believing in Bitcoins and it's ability to change the world
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iCEBREAKER
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
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May 17, 2013, 03:39:11 AM |
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The giant BTC1.7 ask wall for G.AM-PT is gone. Good news for Gamma shareholders! Not a lot of resistance until we hit the BTC2 ceiling (*evil Mr. Burns laugh*). Friedcat should do daily updates. We want to know how he slept, what he had for breakfast, where he's going, who he's meeting, etc. Give the man some Google glasses!  |
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Monero
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| "The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect." Adam Back 2014
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stripykitteh
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001
CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!
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May 17, 2013, 03:50:39 AM |
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The giant BTC1.7 ask wall for G.AM-PT is gone. Good news for Gamma shareholders! Not a lot of resistance until we hit the BTC2 ceiling (*evil Mr. Burns laugh*). Friedcat should do daily updates. We want to know how he slept, what he had for breakfast, where he's going, who he's meeting, etc. Give the man some Google glasses! The contrast between BFL customers asking Josh why he shouldn't be strung up by his testicles and AM shareholders asking friedcat if the magic carpet ride will continue forever is stark! |
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arklan
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1778
Merit: 1008
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May 17, 2013, 03:59:02 AM |
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hurray! usb miners!
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i don't post much, but this space for rent.
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ionstorm
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May 17, 2013, 04:04:56 AM |
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dude friedcat is the man, every time I see him update us I grow more faith in asicminer, he seems like one of the greatest bitcoin economy ceo's. I am sure we will see allot of bad ones in other companies that will try and destroy bitcoin because of greed, I think friedcat may be the guy that saves the bitcoin world. Thanks for all the work you do friedcat!
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BlackLilac Grant
Member
Offline
Activity: 72
Merit: 10
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May 17, 2013, 04:45:49 AM |
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Xian01
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1067
Christian Antkow
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May 17, 2013, 05:07:37 AM |
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dude friedcat is the man, every time I see him update us I grow more faith in asicminer, he seems like one of the greatest bitcoin economy ceo's. I am sure we will see allot of bad ones in other companies that will try and destroy bitcoin because of greed, I think friedcat may be the guy that saves the bitcoin world. Thanks for all the work you do friedcat!
Friedcat has been pretty rock solid the more I look into AM. Really impressed. Just picked up a bunch of ASICMINER-PT on btct.co. Exciting stuff. Can't wait to see the Sapphire sticks from the US group order ! |
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rudrigorc2
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1064
Merit: 1000
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May 17, 2013, 05:17:53 AM |
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dude friedcat is the man, every time I see him update us I grow more faith in asicminer, he seems like one of the greatest bitcoin economy ceo's. I am sure we will see allot of bad ones in other companies that will try and destroy bitcoin because of greed, I think friedcat may be the guy that saves the bitcoin world. Thanks for all the work you do friedcat!
the more you give more you get |
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stslimited
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May 17, 2013, 06:28:21 AM |
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well obviously since these dividends are so high and people are making too much money, the efficient market should price this security at 10 bitcoins a share, to make the yield more in line with typical returns
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rudrigorc2
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1064
Merit: 1000
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May 17, 2013, 06:34:04 AM |
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Friedcat and evorhees are basically mirror images of each other.
One, busily and actively improving his company's image. Looking at future-growth and new endeavours while always recognizing that shareholders and their needs come first. Friedcat is running the most successful business in Bitcoin, today.
Then you have evorhees, the blatantly dismissive CEO of what could be a successful company, but instead, he has desires to drive share price down (for reasons unbeknownst to us) to serve his own ends. Little drive, no clear ambition, and his company is going down the tubes.
As a newbie to investing, it is particularly enlightening and it takes a certain percentage of humility to admit flaws in one's own investment strategies, and I have recognized very early that when investing, you must try to put the company aside and judge the people running said company first and foremost. And that is why ASICMINER and friedcat will continue to see my support.
They care.
And when they care, they SHOW it, as opposed to telling us.
Thumbs up ASICMINER team. You're doing well!
well done |
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VeeMiner
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May 17, 2013, 06:44:06 AM |
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Update
...funds for foreseeable future (expansion, gen-2 chips) are reserved...
OMG!! MUST BUY MOAR SHARES!! This is great news, I'm so glad I invested early in this company... Keep up the good work friedcat! |
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BlackLilac Grant
Member
Offline
Activity: 72
Merit: 10
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May 17, 2013, 07:18:13 AM |
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Just noticed this: Gavin Andresen has changed the Bitcoin code to block any output with a value of less than 54uBTC: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2577Many Bitcoin users are going to be affected and see their funds blocked. For instance ASICMiner share payments, BitHits faucet payments, anyone depending on microtransactions. If you depend on small payments you need to change your business model now or find yourself shutdown overnight. Gavin: It's sad that you aren't willing to speak about this publicly on the forums, rather than hiding away all the debate on GitHub away from the general public. edit: To be clear, I like the patch: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2577#issuecomment-17138223What I don't like is when I realized not once had Gavin or anyone else in the development team made a public statement that this change was coming down the line. If I hadn't made this post, for all I know it would have been hidden away in the next Bitcoin-QT with no warning at all, right when we all have to upgrade before May 15th. Why isn't think on your blog or someone else so people have time to change the way their businesses operate? Why the secrecy? Sounds like friedcat won't be able to send our confirmation satoshis anymore. |
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