ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[stripykitteh]

havelock down at the moment? Back up now. Down for about 15 mins.

According  to havelock:
Market Cap   ฿4672.1613

Which is less than the ฿5484.66 AM listed as assets on 27th October, plus the 4480310.50￥ (about US$700,000)

So this company is worth less than the cash assets they have? Please explain to a layman

That's just the last sale price times the number of shares outstanding on Havelock, which is about 13,000. It's kind of meaningless as the number of shares on Havelock can vary. It makes more sense for shares which are only listed on Havelock.

[hak8or]

havelock down at the moment? Back up now. Down for about 15 mins.

According  to havelock:
Market Cap   ฿4672.1613

Which is less than the ฿5484.66 AM listed as assets on 27th October, plus the 4480310.50￥ (about US$700,000)

So this company is worth less than the cash assets they have? Please explain to a layman

As always, the markets are not rational but keep in mind that Havelock only has a certain number of shares, a large majority of the rest of the shares are still direct shares. One line of thought with the very low price of shares on havelock is that havelock only holds like 5% of the total shares Asicminer gave out, so anyone selling like ten shares on havelock will cause a massive price drop but if the same were to happen with the exchange having say 50% of total shares then the price drop would only be a smidgen.

[Franktank]

I'm going to be that guy again and ask if blocks found after today's payout is just variance?

[BitThink]

havelock down at the moment? Back up now. Down for about 15 mins.

According  to havelock:
Market Cap   ฿4672.1613

Which is less than the ฿5484.66 AM listed as assets on 27th October, plus the 4480310.50￥ (about US$700,000)

So this company is worth less than the cash assets they have? Please explain to a layman

As always, the markets are not rational but keep in mind that Havelock only has a certain number of shares, a large majority of the rest of the shares are still direct shares. One line of thought with the very low price of shares on havelock is that havelock only holds like 5% of the total shares Asicminer gave out, so anyone selling like ten shares on havelock will cause a massive price drop but if the same were to happen with the exchange having say 50% of total shares then the price drop would only be a smidgen.

But considering the possibility of more shares will be sold in that case. In statistics, sample size of 5% is good enough in many cases.

[BitThink]

havelock down at the moment? Back up now. Down for about 15 mins.

According  to havelock:
Market Cap   ฿4672.1613

Which is less than the ฿5484.66 AM listed as assets on 27th October, plus the 4480310.50￥ (about US$700,000)

So this company is worth less than the cash assets they have? Please explain to a layman

It's just the market cap of all PTs in Havelock, which is a very small part of all shares.

[drawingthesun]

havelock down at the moment? Back up now. Down for about 15 mins.

According  to havelock:
Market Cap   ฿4672.1613

Which is less than the ฿5484.66 AM listed as assets on 27th October, plus the 4480310.50￥ (about US$700,000)

So this company is worth less than the cash assets they have? Please explain to a layman

That is the market cap for the shares on Havelock.

To give an idea of the actual market cap, there are 400,000 shares of AM.

So 0.3 x 400,000 = 120,000 Bitcoin or $60million.

To give an idea of how overvalued AM was at its peak: 4.5btc per share x 400,000 = 1,800,000btc. It was obvious AM was overvalued, the only way it could maintain 4btc per share was to have 100% of the network or close.

[Jutarul]

....
In the spirit of defusing this a bit, the board is going to have a meeting soon and discuss the communication/transparency issue. The last attempt to improve the situation was well intended but not followed through. This point needs clarification.

Awesome stuff. Will the meeting be made public (streamed/recorded/transcript online), or will it be fully in private? Any comments on what the previous attempt was and why it failed?

There will certainly be a public statement on how to go forward on this issue.

[freedomno1]

....
In the spirit of defusing this a bit, the board is going to have a meeting soon and discuss the communication/transparency issue. The last attempt to improve the situation was well intended but not followed through. This point needs clarification.

Awesome stuff. Will the meeting be made public (streamed/recorded/transcript online), or will it be fully in private? Any comments on what the previous attempt was and why it failed?

There will certainly be a public statement on how to go forward on this issue.

Well as an aside FC does need to work on the marketing arm
Been getting a lot of questions on how to buy AM shares and Purchase Miners in the last couple of weeks there seem to be a lot of interested people in AM with all the bitcoin news.

[gaba]

Hashrate is obviously increasing - fast. https://blockchain.info/address/1DJpsvnM7xTnQbWEhLYyCyfxQyxwupEzCa

[jimmothy]

Hashrate is obviously increasing - fast. https://blockchain.info/address/1DJpsvnM7xTnQbWEhLYyCyfxQyxwupEzCa

In one day they mined about half as much as they mined all last week. Most likely just luck though.

edit: no idea what that address is but statement still true.

[JimiQ84]

that's not AM mining address, what is this?

[hlynur]

that's not AM mining address, what is this?

yea good question.

by the way right AM mining address:
https://blockchain.info/address/1HtUGfbDcMzTeHWx2Dbgnhc6kYnj1Hp24i

[JimiQ84]

that's not AM mining address, what is this?

yea good question.

by the way right AM mining address:
https://blockchain.info/address/1HtUGfbDcMzTeHWx2Dbgnhc6kYnj1Hp24i

oh, I got it - it's ActiveMining address

[drawingthesun]

oh, I got it - it's ActiveMining address

Haha yeah, huge difference between ActM and AM. It looks like AM is pulling in over 100 times what ActiveMining does.

I am a huge shareholder in ActM, hopefully one day our mining address will look like ASICMINER's. Hehe one can hope!

[msm595]

Is AM on a lucky streak, or is hashrate increasing dramatically? We already have 150 BTC in the wallet, which is 1/2 of the most recent dividend. In one day. Even if you discount the 50 BTC mined before the dividend, that's 100 so far/375 total last week. If this isn't luck, that means at least 2x dividend next week.

[empoweoqwj]

Is AM on a lucky streak, or is hashrate increasing dramatically? We already have 150 BTC in the wallet, which is 1/2 of the most recent dividend. In one day. Even if you discount the 50 BTC mined before the dividend, that's 100 so far/375 total last week. If this isn't luck, that means at least 2x dividend next week.

Could easily be a lucky streak. As we have seen so many times in the past, variance is a huge factor in mining. You cannot judge anything on a day or two ... a week at least of good results is more like it.

Thanks everyone for pointing out what Havelock "Market Cap" actually means. Its not the market cap of the company, just the shares held at Havelock. Quite misleading really. Needs clarifying.

[BitThink]

If our concerns about AM still concentrate on mining income, then I am quite confident that we will be disappointed. One bitfury has already caused the big drop of shares of AM, then KnC, and now BitMain. BitMain is also in China and their first 30 units were sold in 2 hours, and then they will produce mass batch of their 55nm chips shortly. That will not only hurts the mining share of AM but also the hardware sales.

If there's no big news about cooperation of Gen2 chips out in this month, then the following 3 months are miserable for all AM investors, who will see big loss in revenue (both mining and sales).

The only hope is the Gen3 chips, which may be ready no earlier than Jan 2014. Forget about cooling technology now, cause it will not help in the short term. Even finally it is sold to big companies, I doubt AM have the ability to produce them in large quantity.

In short, now mining income almost becomes irrelevant in evaluating AM's future. There's no point to look at their hashing rate.

[jimmothy]

If our concerns about AM still concentrate on mining income, then I am quite confident that we will be disappointed. One bitfury has already caused the big drop of shares of AM, then KnC, and now BitMain. BitMain is also in China and their first 30 units were sold in 2 hours, and then they will produce mass batch of their 55nm chips shortly. That will not only hurts the mining share of AM but also the hardware sales.

If there's no big news about cooperation of Gen2 chips out in this month, then the following 3 months are miserable for all AM investors, who will see big loss in revenue (both mining and sales).

The only hope is the Gen3 chips, which may be ready no earlier than Jan 2014. Forget about cooling technology now, cause it will not help in the short term. Even finally it is sold to big companies, I doubt AM have the ability to produce them in large quantity.

In short, now mining income almost becomes irrelevant in evaluating AM's future. There's no point to look at their hashing rate.

KNC and bitfury 28nm is not even more efficient than an am cube... bitmain is not selling only accepted pre-orders and 2800 for 180gh/s is not better than 600 for 40gh/s assuming they even deliver.

[BitThink]

If our concerns about AM still concentrate on mining income, then I am quite confident that we will be disappointed. One bitfury has already caused the big drop of shares of AM, then KnC, and now BitMain. BitMain is also in China and their first 30 units were sold in 2 hours, and then they will produce mass batch of their 55nm chips shortly. That will not only hurts the mining share of AM but also the hardware sales.

If there's no big news about cooperation of Gen2 chips out in this month, then the following 3 months are miserable for all AM investors, who will see big loss in revenue (both mining and sales).

The only hope is the Gen3 chips, which may be ready no earlier than Jan 2014. Forget about cooling technology now, cause it will not help in the short term. Even finally it is sold to big companies, I doubt AM have the ability to produce them in large quantity.

In short, now mining income almost becomes irrelevant in evaluating AM's future. There's no point to look at their hashing rate.

KNC 28nm is not even more efficient than an am cube... bitmain is not selling only accepted pre-orders.

1) KnC 28nm watt/G is less than one half of AM chips. Cube is still using the Gen1 chips which are > 7w/GH
2) bitman is selling on stock units.

[data]

To give an idea of how overvalued AM was at its peak: 4.5btc per share x 400,000 = 1,800,000btc.

While I agree that it was overvalued, why would it be following your logic? Theres nearly 10 million BTC to be mined + the magical transaction fee raise of the future + the possibility of self-mining and selling machines to really get profits from more than e.g. 20% of the network.