ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[mc_lovin]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=632947.msg7644185#msg7644185

Nice find!

I'm going to quote it so this thread has pretty pictures

There ya go.

[JoTheKhan]

Lets hope for some good news this weekend. I feel like BTC is bound to hit a new pump, I hope AM is Mining/(Finished selling) by then.

[kingcrimson]

Awful quiet in here. Everyone OK out there? Bracing for 0.10?

Yes it is the prisoners dilemma at play

[necro_nemesis]

I somewhat enjoy observing competitors comments knowing that all that so called obsolete AM hashing power is effecting their future profitability. Even if FC damn near gives it away hashing power is hashing power and every ounce of it erodes the competition's projected profits and postures AM in the market for the future. Hoping a fair amount went into mining and franchising at this juncture. Gladly pay the hydro bill on it from profits until Gen4 hits the scene. Still more cost competitive then buying retail equipment and mining no matter who makes it IMHO. Really would like an update on where it all went when the product deployment dust settles and the overall strategic plan with Gen3 and 4. I get the sense there's a long term plan that has the two Gens interrelated but short term updates would be appreciated.

[Blazed]

I fail to see how this hurts competitors..seems SP / Bitmain are selling non stop with happy customers.  How does giving hardware away for cheap help AM later on exactly?  I am amazed how much faith you guys have in AM chips.. Gen 3 was nothing impressive at all.  You think that KnC and BitFury are scared of AM selling these chips for cheap?

[necro_nemesis]

It's very simple. When you presale a device that has an anticipated hash rate you're required to forecast what you can get for it based on the where it stands in the network at the time of delivery. If you overestimate it's value when setting it's selling price you end up with pissed off customers who overpaid. If you take the more respectable route as Bitmain does selling when you can actually deliver then more network hashing equates to less profit for your product as you can't expect to get the same return from it. To discount a sizeable amount of hashing power is just foolish no matter if the flavor of that ASIC doesn't suit your pallet.

[willBTC]

I have asked Friedcat about the franchising mining farm,Friedcat replied me by E-mail that the franchising mining farm will be work after the mid of July.

BTW, I  will be a small franchise partner too    

each 100 Asciminer shares will  mortgage 15T hashrate .  franchising will get 20% mining profit when deduct the electric fee .

[feifa]

I have asked Friedcat about the franchising mining farm,Friedcat replied me by E-mail that the franchising mining farm will be work after the mid of July.

BTW, I  will be a small franchise partner too    

each 100 Asciminer shares will  mortgage 15T hashrate .  franchising will get 20% mining profit when deduct the electric fee .

Good news!
So  you just buy some shares on havelock at 0.19~0.2BTC/share

[JoTheKhan]

I have asked Friedcat about the franchising mining farm,Friedcat replied me by E-mail that the franchising mining farm will be work after the mid of July.

BTW, I  will be a small franchise partner too    

each 100 Asciminer shares will  mortgage 15T hashrate .  franchising will get 20% mining profit when deduct the electric fee .

Anyone wish to elaborate this means? If you have 100 AM shares, you can put them up as collateral for ~15T in mining gear, where you personally keep roughly ~20% of Profits/(Take Electricity Cost) (Meaning the other ~80% goes to AM for Divs/BitFountain)?

If this is the case, that is really cool. This sounds really really cool.

[willBTC]

I have asked Friedcat about the franchising mining farm,Friedcat replied me by E-mail that the franchising mining farm will be work after the mid of July.

BTW, I  will be a small franchise partner too    

each 100 Asciminer shares will  mortgage 15T hashrate .  franchising will get 20% mining profit when deduct the electric fee .

Anyone wish to elaborate this means? If you have 100 AM shares, you can put them up as collateral for ~15T in mining gear, where you personally keep roughly ~20% of Profits/(Take Electricity Cost) (Meaning the other ~80% goes to AM for Divs/BitFountain)?

If this is the case, that is really cool. This sounds really really cool.

yes, that's the case. I was confirmed with Friedcat.

[btcbot]

I have asked Friedcat about the franchising mining farm,Friedcat replied me by E-mail that the franchising mining farm will be work after the mid of July.

BTW, I  will be a small franchise partner too    

each 100 Asciminer shares will  mortgage 15T hashrate .  franchising will get 20% mining profit when deduct the electric fee .

Anyone wish to elaborate this means? If you have 100 AM shares, you can put them up as collateral for ~15T in mining gear, where you personally keep roughly ~20% of Profits/(Take Electricity Cost) (Meaning the other ~80% goes to AM for Divs/BitFountain)?

If this is the case, that is really cool. This sounds really really cool.

Collateral?  I thought he meant every 100 shares would be entitled to the 15T's 20% profits? 

[JoTheKhan]

I have asked Friedcat about the franchising mining farm,Friedcat replied me by E-mail that the franchising mining farm will be work after the mid of July.

BTW, I  will be a small franchise partner too    

each 100 Asciminer shares will  mortgage 15T hashrate .  franchising will get 20% mining profit when deduct the electric fee .

Anyone wish to elaborate this means? If you have 100 AM shares, you can put them up as collateral for ~15T in mining gear, where you personally keep roughly ~20% of Profits/(Take Electricity Cost) (Meaning the other ~80% goes to AM for Divs/BitFountain)?

If this is the case, that is really cool. This sounds really really cool.

Collateral?  I thought he meant every 100 shares would be entitled to the 15T's 20% profits? 

Well he did say "I will be a small franchise partner too". And then went on to use the word Mortage. (Though I don't have a Mortage, I thought a Mortage was a type of collateral. Effectively losing the ability to sell/get dividends from the shares you put up to mortgage the TH they send you, otherwise how is AM going to make sure that the small individual franchisers don't run off with their equipment?)

[sngwinner]

With all of the franchise hash power coming online soon, this might be the perfect time to introduce an AM low fee or no fee mining pool open to the entire world. The franchisee hash power would instantly give our pool a large share and it could provide additional revenue in a low fee model and would definitely get the AM name out into the public a bit more. The important thing would be providing an alternative option to ghash.io. If AM balanced out the mining share Eco system I'm sure r/bitcoin would go nuts with praise for AM.

[xhomerx10]

I have asked Friedcat about the franchising mining farm,Friedcat replied me by E-mail that the franchising mining farm will be work after the mid of July.

BTW, I  will be a small franchise partner too    

each 100 Asciminer shares will  mortgage 15T hashrate .  franchising will get 20% mining profit when deduct the electric fee .

Anyone wish to elaborate this means? If you have 100 AM shares, you can put them up as collateral for ~15T in mining gear, where you personally keep roughly ~20% of Profits/(Take Electricity Cost) (Meaning the other ~80% goes to AM for Divs/BitFountain)?

If this is the case, that is really cool. This sounds really really cool.

yes, that's the case. I was confirmed with Friedcat.

 NOT cool at all.  That would be ludicrous.  At the current value of Bitcoins in USD that means you are putting up $1.25 per GHs and getting back 20% of what that will mine after electricity costs?  Did we not already BUY those chips with the profits from our company?  There is no way we have to put up our shares to get the hashing!!  If AM is giving away the chips for a deal like this, then we should be getting a percentage of those proceeds from mining based solely on our ownership of those shares.  I fail to understand how you think it's "cool"  to have to use your shares as collateral for such an operation.  It would be much better for your to sell your shares, buy mining equipment that uses more efficient chips and keep 100% of the profit after electricity costs.

 I sincerely hope that this is not the deal FC cooked up.  I cannot believe this for one second.

[aahzmundus]

This is not new, friedcat has previously let people use their shares as backing to buy blades and other things.  It lets people that want to get hashing power, and also acts as a way friedcat can buy back some of his shares.  In fact, this is a good thing.

If friedcat did not value his own shares enough to be willing to do something like this, one would probably be suspicious.  He values his own company enough that he wants to buy back as much equity as possible when he can.

[Franktank]

NOT cool at all.  That would be ludicrous.  At the current value of Bitcoins in USD that means you are putting up $1.25 per GHs and getting back 20% of what that will mine after electricity costs?  Did we not already BUY those chips with the profits from our company?  There is no way we have to put up our shares to get the hashing!!  If AM is giving away the chips for a deal like this, then we should be getting a percentage of those proceeds from mining based solely on our ownership of those shares.  I fail to understand how you think it's "cool"  to have to use your shares as collateral for such an operation.  It would be much better for your to sell your shares, buy mining equipment that uses more efficient chips and keep 100% of the profit after electricity costs.

I sincerely hope that this is not the deal FC cooked up.  I cannot believe this for one second.

It would be best to wait until all the terms and conditions are presented.

[JoTheKhan]

NOT cool at all.  That would be ludicrous.  At the current value of Bitcoins in USD that means you are putting up $1.25 per GHs and getting back 20% of what that will mine after electricity costs?  Did we not already BUY those chips with the profits from our company?  There is no way we have to put up our shares to get the hashing!!  If AM is giving away the chips for a deal like this, then we should be getting a percentage of those proceeds from mining based solely on our ownership of those shares.  I fail to understand how you think it's "cool"  to have to use your shares as collateral for such an operation.  It would be much better for your to sell your shares, buy mining equipment that uses more efficient chips and keep 100% of the profit after electricity costs.

I sincerely hope that this is not the deal FC cooked up.  I cannot believe this for one second.

It would be best to wait until all the terms and conditions are presented.

My personal Assumption
It isn't a share buy back. The shares go up as Collateral where you alone get 20% of the machine you are hashing for, and 80% goes to AM (For Everyone else's Dividends). You don't lose your shares, you merely have them on collateral until you are done with your franchising then. (This means that if you run off with the equipment then you are effectively lose your shares, if you don't run off with the equipment then you won't lose your shares). You would get them back at the end of the endeavor at no cost.

No shares would be bought back and AM wouldn't lose money, they would effectively be building a decentralized mining farm.

Basically if you put up 1000 shares as collateral, then you would mine ~150TH and get 20% of the BTC they mine (minus electricity), 80% of the BTC would go back to AM, where AM saves for Gen4/Pays Divs.


(I don't know if your 1000 shares will get divs from these or any other mining at the time, but if you have 1001 shares, then 1 share will get divs.)

After this is done and the mining ceases or I guess you wish to finish franchising, then you would send the equipment back to FC and get access to your 1000 shares again.

This is the same type of franchising FC talked about a month or so ago, instead of doing checks on mining farms though, he just uses your shares as collateral.

[aahzmundus]

Oh i know that if everything goes well, no shares are purchased back... but sometimes they would be.  And the fact that FC is totally cool with getting his shares back, says something.

[bitcoin.newsfeed]

So for every 100s of my full shares I can get 15Th/s of mining gear for free from AM ? And I will get normal company dividends for that shares, plus 20% of what I mined "at home" as franchise? And that shares are held as collateral in case I get robbed, I run away, or don't provide expected hashing power to the pool(cheating, self mining, not mining for AM but myself). Good.

If this is the case, it's nice franchise program also for small miners and nice bonus for us, shareholders

Interesting idea

EDIT : AND it creates a demand for AM shares, because if you want to be franchise(in this program), you must own shares.

[xhomerx10]

So for every 100s of my full shares I can get 15Th/s of mining gear for free from AM ? And I will get normal company dividends for that shares, plus 20% of what I mined "at home" as franchise? And that shares ale held as collateral in case I get robbed, I run away, or don't provide expected hashing power to the pool(cheating, self mining, not mining for AM but myself). Good.

If this is the case, it's nice franchise program also for small miners and nice bonus for us, shareholders

Interesting idea

EDIT : AND it creates a demand for AM shares, because if you want to be franchise(in this program), you must own shares.

 So I can buy 100 shares for 20 bitcoins, put them up for collateral, get 20% of the mining paying my own electricity costs out of it and at the end of it all, I get my 100 shares back?  Well guess what.  At 15 cents US per kW.h and Bitcoin at $650 USD your power costs ARE  20% of what you could generate today!  You get nothing but loss from this venture.

 15 TH/s generates 0.4485 BTC per 24 hours
 1 kW.h @ 0.15 cents US = 0.000230769231 BTC /kW.h
 15 TH/s of AM GEN3 uses ~ 16.5 kW
 16.5 kW.h x 24h x 0.000230769231 BTC/kW.h = 0.091384615476 BTC
 20% of your production (0.4485 BTC per 24 hours) =  0.0897 BTC

 As you can see, it sucks.  Also, when diff goes up, it sucks worse.  
Check my math but I think I'm right.