Bitcoin Forum
September 30, 2022, 06:05:06 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 23.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  

Warning: Moderators do not remove likely scams. You must use your own brain: caveat emptor. Watch out for Ponzi schemes. Do not invest more than you can afford to lose.

Pages: « 1 ... 971 972 973 974 975 976 977 978 979 980 981 982 983 984 985 986 987 988 989 990 991 992 993 994 995 996 997 998 999 1000 1001 1002 1003 1004 1005 1006 1007 1008 1009 1010 1011 1012 1013 1014 1015 1016 1017 1018 1019 1020 [1021] 1022 1023 1024 1025 1026 1027 1028 1029 1030 1031 1032 1033 1034 1035 1036 1037 1038 1039 1040 1041 1042 1043 1044 1045 1046 1047 1048 1049 1050 1051 1052 1053 1054 1055 1056 1057 1058 1059 1060 1061 1062 1063 1064 1065 1066 1067 1068 1069 1070 1071 ... 1348 »
  Print  
Author Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It  (Read 3914427 times)
hdbuck
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002



View Profile
June 03, 2014, 07:57:34 PM
Last edit: June 03, 2014, 08:16:29 PM by hdbuck
 #20401

Like I already said, we're entering a more saturated market now - in comparison to last year. The competition is a lot stronger now and has good chips.

saturated? besides spondoolies that may be doing ok (yet there is no comparison in term of quantity, nor in business model), i dont see a single ASIC manufacturer that offer stable, affordable and instock products. bitmain's S2 are a total disaster, avalon and hashfast i wont even talk about them, bitfury seems to be on the go now with that recent funding (yet its only the FUNDING phase and nothing really came out anyway) etc etc.. for the last year, the ASIC market has been ruined and undermined by scammy commercial practices and chip design amateurism with all of them wanting to produce 28nm chips straight on & at all cost. AM is here to change that.

sure current btc bull market is quite worrying, but FC mentioned OTC channels in HK. plus if bitcoin price rise, chips price to mine them will follow too. never in hell they'll sell at lost. fuck even BFL managed to put their 5Gh jalapenos in wallmarts for 300$! Grin Cheesy
1664517906
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1664517906

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1664517906
Reply with quote  #2

1664517906
Report to moderator
1664517906
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1664517906

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1664517906
Reply with quote  #2

1664517906
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
minerpumpkin
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 686
Merit: 500


A pumpkin mines 27 hours a night


View Profile
June 03, 2014, 08:00:31 PM
 #20402

Of course the sales price can always be adjusted for future sales.

Regarding that rumoured near-future 0.35$/G:

Anybody knows at what G-rate of the chip that price might be based on?

If it is the initial 12.8G/chip (and as now everybody incl. fc is talking about 10G/chip), the actual price would be 0.448$/G (0.35$ for actual 0.78G at 10G/chip).

Just a thought...


I'm not following... We're talking about $0.35 per GH/s, that is per GH/s. That Chinese offer seems to be our very own gen 3 chips, since it says "grilled cat 3 generations chips". Delivery seems to be June 10-20.

Please think again. Or is my English really that bad? Tongue

I thought you weren't sure which chips were being sold here: http://www.cybtc.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=7951&highlight=%E7%83%A4%E7%8C%AB.
Still not following. We're pricing the chips per GH/s. If 1 GH/s costs $0.35, a 10 GH/s chip costs $3.5 and the initial 12.8GH/s chip would be $4.48. But not $0.448/GH/s!?
The chips could do 50GH/s, they'd still be $0.35/GH/s.

10 GH/s may be due to the increase in consumption or heat they encountered, so the recommended speed has been cut to about 10 GH/s. The only thing that does happen is that the production price would increase by the factor 1.28x per GH/s, since one chip yields less GH/s.

I should have gotten into Bitcoin back in 1992...
minerpumpkin
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 686
Merit: 500


A pumpkin mines 27 hours a night


View Profile
June 03, 2014, 08:06:26 PM
 #20403

Like I already said, we're entering a more saturated market now - in comparison to last year. The competition is a lot stronger now and has good chips.

saturated? besides spondoolies that may be doing ok (yet there is no comparison in term of quantity, nor in business model), i dont see a single ASIC manufacturer that offer stable, affordable and instock products. bitmain's S2 are a total disaster, avalon i dont even talk about em, bitfury seems to be on the go now too but nothing really came out anyway etc etc.. for the last year, the ASIC market has been ruined and undermined by scammy commercial practices and chip design amateurism with all of them wanting to produce 28nm chips straight on & at all cost. AM is here to change that.

sure current btc bull market is quite worrying, but FC mentioned OTC channels in HK. plus if bitcoin price rise, chips price to mine them will follow too.

Bitfury just got a massive cash infusion and they're quite talented in doing effective designs in low-nm architectures. I really do think we shouldn't underestimate Spondoolies. They seem to know what they're doing and their next generation could be quite powerful.

OTC channels are a great solution! They won't offer a different price, though. I'm just worried that the price of the chips won't be adjusted as fast as the BTC price, additionally money needs time to trickle in and be converted. A month is an eternity in Bitcoin bull/bubble-world.

I should have gotten into Bitcoin back in 1992...
vortex1878
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 492
Merit: 500


View Profile
June 03, 2014, 08:09:59 PM
 #20404

Of course the sales price can always be adjusted for future sales.

Regarding that rumoured near-future 0.35$/G:

Anybody knows at what G-rate of the chip that price might be based on?

If it is the initial 12.8G/chip (and as now everybody incl. fc is talking about 10G/chip), the actual price would be 0.448$/G (0.35$ for actual 0.78G at 10G/chip).

Just a thought...


I'm not following... We're talking about $0.35 per GH/s, that is per GH/s. That Chinese offer seems to be our very own gen 3 chips, since it says "grilled cat 3 generations chips". Delivery seems to be June 10-20.

Please think again. Or is my English really that bad? Tongue

I thought you weren't sure which chips were being sold here: http://www.cybtc.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=7951&highlight=%E7%83%A4%E7%8C%AB.
Still not following. We're pricing the chips per GH/s. If 1 GH/s costs $0.35, a 10 GH/s chip costs $3.5 and the initial 12.8GH/s chip would be $4.48. But not $0.448/GH/s!?
The chips could do 50GH/s, they'd still be $0.35/GH/s.

10 GH/s may be due to the increase in consumption or heat they encountered, so the recommended speed has been cut to about 10 GH/s. The only thing that does happen is that the production price would increase by the factor 1.28x per GH/s, since one chip yields less GH/s.

Now I know it is not my bad English. ^^

I'll give it a last try with a bold example:
Somebody is offering you chips for 1$/G. He says each chip performs 1Gh/s (although the official rating is different).
At 1 Gh/s the chip consumes 10 Watts. But the most efficient (and rated) rate for the chip is 0.5Gh/s as it is only consuming 2 Watts then. So you might want to run the chips at the rated 0.5Gh/s only. Hence, you actually pay 2$/G.
hdbuck
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002



View Profile
June 03, 2014, 08:10:26 PM
 #20405

Like I already said, we're entering a more saturated market now - in comparison to last year. The competition is a lot stronger now and has good chips.

saturated? besides spondoolies that may be doing ok (yet there is no comparison in term of quantity, nor in business model), i dont see a single ASIC manufacturer that offer stable, affordable and instock products. bitmain's S2 are a total disaster, avalon i dont even talk about em, bitfury seems to be on the go now too but nothing really came out anyway etc etc.. for the last year, the ASIC market has been ruined and undermined by scammy commercial practices and chip design amateurism with all of them wanting to produce 28nm chips straight on & at all cost. AM is here to change that.

sure current btc bull market is quite worrying, but FC mentioned OTC channels in HK. plus if bitcoin price rise, chips price to mine them will follow too.

Bitfury just got a massive cash infusion and they're quite talented in doing effective designs in low-nm architectures. I really do think we shouldn't underestimate Spondoolies. They seem to know what they're doing and their next generation could be quite powerful.

OTC channels are a great solution! They won't offer a different price, though. I'm just worried that the price of the chips won't be adjusted as fast as the BTC price, additionally money needs time to trickle in and be converted. A month is an eternity in Bitcoin bull/bubble-world.

sure but bear in mind that not only AM will be stressed by that factor. all ASIC manufacturers will have to deal with it. and so far the only one that is already releasing new working chips is AM. not bitfury, nor spondo's nor no one. they're just not even in mass production phase. AM is. Smiley
vortex1878
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 492
Merit: 500


View Profile
June 03, 2014, 08:18:46 PM
 #20406

And except a lousy initial testing of Gen3 by Rockminer we have not even seen the up-to-date specs of Gen3.1 anywhere.
minerpumpkin
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 686
Merit: 500


A pumpkin mines 27 hours a night


View Profile
June 03, 2014, 08:19:34 PM
 #20407

Now I know it is not my bad English. ^^

I'll give it a last try with a bold example:
Somebody is offering you chips for 1$/G. He says each chip performs 1Gh/s (although the official rating is different).
At 1 Gh/s the chip consumes 10 Watts. But the most efficient (and rated) rate for the chip is 0.5Gh/s as it is only consuming 2 Watts then. So you might want to run the chips at the rated 0.5Gh/s only. Hence, you actually pay 2$/G.

Ah okay, so you're interested in the currently advertised rated performance of the chips? Yes, that isn't entirely clear. But even in April FC already stated "assuming each chip has 10GH/s", like you already mentioned. They could indeed have a minor influence. Effectively an example why the January plans seem outdated.

I should have gotten into Bitcoin back in 1992...
hdbuck
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002



View Profile
June 03, 2014, 08:21:34 PM
 #20408

And except a lousy initial testing of Gen3 by Rockminer we have not even seen the up-to-date specs of Gen3.1 anywhere.

but why would we? there is just no competitive incentive to release all this data. its not because we know nothing that nothing is happening. At the very best, that would explain such low communication from FC. too busy getting that sh*t straight. Cheesy
minerpumpkin
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 686
Merit: 500


A pumpkin mines 27 hours a night


View Profile
June 03, 2014, 08:21:50 PM
 #20409

Like I already said, we're entering a more saturated market now - in comparison to last year. The competition is a lot stronger now and has good chips.

saturated? besides spondoolies that may be doing ok (yet there is no comparison in term of quantity, nor in business model), i dont see a single ASIC manufacturer that offer stable, affordable and instock products. bitmain's S2 are a total disaster, avalon i dont even talk about em, bitfury seems to be on the go now too but nothing really came out anyway etc etc.. for the last year, the ASIC market has been ruined and undermined by scammy commercial practices and chip design amateurism with all of them wanting to produce 28nm chips straight on & at all cost. AM is here to change that.

sure current btc bull market is quite worrying, but FC mentioned OTC channels in HK. plus if bitcoin price rise, chips price to mine them will follow too.

Bitfury just got a massive cash infusion and they're quite talented in doing effective designs in low-nm architectures. I really do think we shouldn't underestimate Spondoolies. They seem to know what they're doing and their next generation could be quite powerful.

OTC channels are a great solution! They won't offer a different price, though. I'm just worried that the price of the chips won't be adjusted as fast as the BTC price, additionally money needs time to trickle in and be converted. A month is an eternity in Bitcoin bull/bubble-world.

sure but bear in mind that not only AM will be stressed by that factor. all ASIC manufacturers will have to deal with it. and so far the only one that is already releasing new working chips is AM. not bitfury, nor spondo's nor no one. they're just not even in mass production phase. AM is. Smiley


Yeah but in our case this cuts the dividends. Spondoolies doesn't care since they're effectively operating in FIAT. (On a side-note: AM itself doesn't care either, it makes a lot of sense to conduct the core operation using USD)

I should have gotten into Bitcoin back in 1992...
minerpumpkin
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 686
Merit: 500


A pumpkin mines 27 hours a night


View Profile
June 03, 2014, 08:24:35 PM
 #20410

And except a lousy initial testing of Gen3 by Rockminer we have not even seen the up-to-date specs of Gen3.1 anywhere.

but why would we? there is just no competitive incentive to release all this data. its not because we know nothing that nothing is happening. At the very best, that would explain such low communication from FC. too busy getting that shit straight. Cheesy

Again, don't overestimate gen 3.1 there is no new chip design (mask set) but rather an increased die size or similar, in order to get rid of the heat better and to stabilise the chip. This shouldn't take any time at all. I also believe that the chips at XBTec are gen 3.1 since they use the new dimensions (8x8mm)

I should have gotten into Bitcoin back in 1992...
vortex1878
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 492
Merit: 500


View Profile
June 03, 2014, 08:25:27 PM
 #20411

And except a lousy initial testing of Gen3 by Rockminer we have not even seen the up-to-date specs of Gen3.1 anywhere.

but why would we? there is just no competitive incentive to release all this data. its not because we know nothing that nothing is happening. At the very best, that would explain such low communication from FC. too busy getting that sh*t straight. Cheesy

True. We know NOTHING actually. So also we do not know if advertising improved specs (equals more info to competitors) would generate more customers or we already do not need more customers as future batches are already in LoI phase or similar.
vortex1878
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 492
Merit: 500


View Profile
June 03, 2014, 08:31:37 PM
 #20412

And except a lousy initial testing of Gen3 by Rockminer we have not even seen the up-to-date specs of Gen3.1 anywhere.

but why would we? there is just no competitive incentive to release all this data. its not because we know nothing that nothing is happening. At the very best, that would explain such low communication from FC. too busy getting that shit straight. Cheesy

Again, don't overestimate gen 3.1 there is no new chip design (mask set) but rather an increased die size or similar, in order to get rid of the heat better and to stabilise the chip. This shouldn't take any time at all. I also believe that the chips at XBTec are gen 3.1 since they use the new dimensions (8x8mm)

Agreed, this will not take much time but the effect is unknown. Apparently the generation used by XBTec is more efficient. Could be due to 3.1 improvements, PCB improvements or just less loss on the overall device-level due to lower overheads because of more chips per device and less supporting components (I am not an engineer, excuse my wording).
ujka
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 630
Merit: 500


View Profile
June 03, 2014, 09:23:51 PM
 #20413

Why are you guys so fast in dismising self-mining?
20Ph mentioned as possible with franchising + AM farms, could mine around 90'000 btc before next reward halving:
http://btcinvest.net/en/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=10455720138&dcosts=0&diff_mincrease=15&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=20000000000&diff_mincreasedecrease=3&btcusd=623.06&dpowcon=30&btcusd_mincrease=1&pcost=0&calcweeks=60&dleadtime=3&action=calc
Anotheranonlol
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 588
Merit: 500


View Profile
June 03, 2014, 09:24:33 PM
 #20414

When it comes to the nitty gritty internals of Asicminer we are like Jon Snuh  
we know nothing

kaerf
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 631
Merit: 500


View Profile
June 03, 2014, 09:36:31 PM
 #20415

So about 0.01 btc per share is probably about the most total dividend one could possibly expect for now, until gen 4.

you forgot about selfmining and franchisees.


If we assume that selling chips is the most profitable and fast(!) way to go, every KH/s that goes into self-mining and franchising, is a KH/s sold for less. i.e. we'd be off worse.

This all depends on how much and how fast FC can produce self-mining machines.

In my (crazy) estimates, 1GH can still make $1-$2 (accounting for power,fees , and more). If FC can produce machines for less than $0.65/GH ($1 - $0.35), then it's better to self mine....unless he has problems with deploying that much power. Personally, I'd like to see more self mining, but if I were FC I'd also be wary of the additional liability of self mining (sourcing power/space thus making the business much less nimble).
jimmothy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 770
Merit: 509



View Profile
June 03, 2014, 09:48:29 PM
 #20416

Quote
unless he has problems with deploying that much power.

I do believe this is a limiting factor. AM is only working with 1MW and it's not particularly cheap electricity ($0.15/kwh for the immersion DC iirc).

Quote
Personally, I'd like to see more self mining, but if I were FC I'd also be wary of the additional liability of self mining (sourcing power/space thus making the business much less nimble).

I agree. Although I believe FC knows what he is doing and will do whatever is most profitable, I'd still like to see some expansion on the solomining operation.

It would be nice if we could get a ~20Mw DC with cheap electricity (<$0.05/kwh) to rival bitfuries giant farm which will be running soon.
Anotheranonlol
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 588
Merit: 500


View Profile
June 03, 2014, 10:03:54 PM
 #20417

Quote
unless he has problems with deploying that much power.

I do believe this is a limiting factor. AM is only working with 1MW and it's not particularly cheap electricity ($0.15/kwh for the immersion DC iirc).

Quote
Personally, I'd like to see more self mining, but if I were FC I'd also be wary of the additional liability of self mining (sourcing power/space thus making the business much less nimble).

I agree. Although I believe FC knows what he is doing and will do whatever is most profitable, I'd still like to see some expansion on the solomining operation.

It would be nice if we could get a ~20Mw DC with cheap electricity (<$0.05/kwh) to rival bitfuries giant farm which will be running soon.

Most of chinese farms have been discussing plant subsidy in mainland then ultimately moving to mongolia. not now but in future
AM cannot compete with Bitfury. their plans is to have better heat efficiency than nearby google DC

jimmothy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 770
Merit: 509



View Profile
June 03, 2014, 10:07:00 PM
 #20418

Quote
AM cannot compete with Bitfury. their plans is to have better heat efficiency than nearby google DC

What exactly does this mean?

Are you talking about PUE or w/gh?

Also source?
aahzmundus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 644
Merit: 500


Invest & Earn: https://cloudthink.io


View Profile
June 03, 2014, 10:07:21 PM
 #20419

Most of chinese farms have been discussing plant subsidy in mainland then ultimately moving to mongolia. not now but in future
AM cannot compete with Bitfury. their plans is to have better heat efficiency than nearby google DC

Does bitfury beat AM's existing farm?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZavKweMrP4  Yes, that is a current AM mining farm...

spartan82
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 658
Merit: 500



View Profile
June 03, 2014, 10:14:00 PM
 #20420

Most of chinese farms have been discussing plant subsidy in mainland then ultimately moving to mongolia. not now but in future
AM cannot compete with Bitfury. their plans is to have better heat efficiency than nearby google DC

Does bitfury beat AM's existing farm?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZavKweMrP4  Yes, that is a current AM mining farm...

What a beautiful sight that is lol I just want one now. Here's hoping AM can get to solo mining with 3PH in time to make a sizable difference
Pages: « 1 ... 971 972 973 974 975 976 977 978 979 980 981 982 983 984 985 986 987 988 989 990 991 992 993 994 995 996 997 998 999 1000 1001 1002 1003 1004 1005 1006 1007 1008 1009 1010 1011 1012 1013 1014 1015 1016 1017 1018 1019 1020 [1021] 1022 1023 1024 1025 1026 1027 1028 1029 1030 1031 1032 1033 1034 1035 1036 1037 1038 1039 1040 1041 1042 1043 1044 1045 1046 1047 1048 1049 1050 1051 1052 1053 1054 1055 1056 1057 1058 1059 1060 1061 1062 1063 1064 1065 1066 1067 1068 1069 1070 1071 ... 1348 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!