 Just the figures don't add up - PSU - Power cost - Shipping fee's - If you have the money then yeah would be a big risk I was looking to set up a UK Farm well up in Scotland free cooling aha. If you ran 100 S1s say in the UK to buy these in inc custom fee based at 500USD per ant = 1.29BTC per ant = 129BTC PSU per ant 0.11 BTC 100 S1 - 129 100 PSU - 11 Switch - 1.35 Racks - 3 Custom power - 2 Total setup BTC cost - 146.35 BTC £52686.00 $87037.25 https://tradeblock.com/mining/a/5fe2e12defNever would you make a profit - get my drift ? Difficulty increases are running closer to 40% than 60% https://tradeblock.com/mining/a/ac40d7756cProfit! Of course no one knows what difficulty will do in the future. |
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I hadn't seen that but you and I both made the same point here. Having said that I don't think Eligius is really hopable in practice (except maybe by just hopping away and staying away) because it has not had a buffer in recent memory and will very likely not have one in the foreseeable future. I have largely shifted my mining away from eligius (I guess I'm a pool hopper!), I now use it only as part of a mix to reduce variance. |
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you can do any of these right now:
Buy 3 antminers and undervolt = 400GH / 500W / 2.7BTC
Has someone developed a method for undervolting the S1? Doesn't this require a hardware mod? |
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I've noticed a few of my ants are now showing x's in asic status. No idea how long this has been going on, but hash rate seems unaffected. Something I should pay attention to, or ignore it?
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The payout queue doesn't include shelved shares?
There is no transparency with respect to shelved shares as far as I know. How the hell are you supposed to keep track of the pool's progress then? Good question but why are you asking me? I'm not an operator of Eligius. At this point I'm only just barely a user. Fair enough, but I'm not sure what formal description you want. It seems fairly clear to me from the description on their web site. Also, I do agree that it is similar in some ways to MPPS. I can't remember what the point of that was supposed to be though. With respect to SMPPS, Meni agreed with my statement in the document you linked: While the expected payout per share is, in theory, fixed, the maturity time is not. My position has been, and continues to be, that this applies to CPPSRB as well. |
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The payout queue doesn't include shelved shares?
There is no transparency with respect to shelved shares as far as I know. How the hell are you supposed to keep track of the pool's progress then? Good question but why are you asking me? I'm not an operator of Eligius. At this point I'm only just barely a user. Also, I'm also interested in thinking about MPPS compared to p2pool's PPLNS if you define what MPPS is. Is that the Eligius payout method? They call it CPPSRB. Is that the same thing you are calling MPPS?
Ah well, there I'm on firmer ground. Also much lazier ground since the some of the work has been done. MPPS reward methods are described quite clearly in Chapter 4 here: https://bitcoil.co.il/pool_analysis.pdfYou'll immediately see the similarity and why CPPSRB could be considered an MPPS variant reward method. You'll probably be able to explain to me better why my explanations are incorrect, if they are. I'll take look, sounds interesting. |
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I did have one small transaction canceled for no apparent reason, which worked in my favor (it was a sell and the price had gone up). So I can definitely say it does happen but they aren't necessarily scamming, and it doesn't necessarily mean their service is not "safe" but it does give me pause to wonder if using their service has some hidden risks.
I've also had much larger transactions go through without any problems. YMMV.
BTW, the $25 million in visible equity capital doesn't really make me feel that safe either. A lot of that has probably been spent, and it is clear from recent events that losses in bitcoin financial companies that go bad can spiral rapidly, easily eclipsing (whatever is left of) $25 million. Coinbase is a relatively small misstep away from insolvency, unless there is more capital than has been publicly disclosed.
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At the moment Eligius has a 48 block queue,
Are you confusing the payout queue with the shelved share log? I don't think the latter is public, but I'd be interested if it were. The payout queue has nothing to do with the expected payout for shares, as far as I know. Also, I'm also interested in thinking about MPPS compared to p2pool's PPLNS if you define what MPPS is. Is that the Eligius payout method? They call it CPPSRB. Is that the same thing you are calling MPPS? |
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By MPPS do you mean eligius? Eligius is not in credit,
Since you're discussing the expected value and infinite time Actually my statement was about finite time, not infinite time. As far as eligius having a credit in the future, that's all well and good, but it doesn't have one right now and won't have one any time soon. For all we know eligius may change its payout method at some point in time. My statement was correct at the time it was made and will almost certainly be correct in a year. I make no promises about some arbitrary time in the future when eligius has a 200+ block buffer. When exactly was the last time eligius had a buffer btw? EDIT: If you are specifically referring to Eligius at this point in time, then of course the expected value of a share for the next round could less than B/D (although the 'filo' reward order makes that tricky to describe exactly) The filo order doesn't matter. As long as there is a positive probability that the share won't be paid on this block (which there is), and a positive probability that it still won't be paid on each successive block (which there also is), then it follows that the expected value is less than B/D in finite time. Even in your cherry picked example of a large buffer this is still mathematically true, though the difference is obviously negligible. |
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A couple sites appear to be around 15%. I was hoping it would be less and with Antminer S2's hitting the market I don';t think this will change unless people stop hashing with old miners. opinions. https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficultyI was looking at this a couple of weeks ago and for most of the last year the average hashing rate increase has held surprisingly steady. This rate has slowed a little in the last two months but I suspect that all of the 28 nm ASIC designs will actually see things jump back up. As an example, over the last few days it's pretty clear that some significant new capacity has hit the system. http://hashingit.com/5-the-bitcoin-runaway-mine-trainThe growth rate has not been at all steady. The graph on that block post is very misleading. Here is a better one: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/growth.png |
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Seems like that site is slowly losing speed.
ghash.io has a lot more going for it than simply mining. I think that's the biggest reason it's gaining miners in a huge fashion.
I'm coming around to that point of view, but let's keep it on topic here  |
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Let's posit that both pools have the same expected value for a share given infinite time.
Let's further posit that shares are proportional to time. This is not exactly true, but it is close. If you do not like this equivalence, then you may modify my original statement to be that the payout for p2pool is greater over a finite number of shares.
The payout for a share is made over at most N shares for p2pool. Once N is reached your expected payout is equal to the expected value of the share. The payout for that same share on Eligius is made over a potentially infinite number of shares (blocks). Thus for any future share > N, e(p2pool) has an expected payout value of 0 and Eligius has some expected payout value > 0. Sp when we reach N (and for any finite number of shares >=N), the expected value paid out by p2pool is greater than the expected value paid out by Eligius, because Eligius still has some remaining expected payments > 0 while p2pool does not.
For shares < N it isn't as clear. I'm ignoring that case. If your window is less than N your expected payout for Eligius may in fact be higher, I'm not sure.
I'm really not sure if this is not clear to you or if you would just like to see it stated more formally.
I think if you're assessing the expected value over time for an MPPS variant reward method then you need to formally describe the state of the pool at the time the share is assessed. If the pool is in credit, then the expected value of the share will be 1.0 in finite time. If you are assuming the pool has no credit and no debit (starting state for this type of reward method) then you need to make that an explicit assumption. By MPPS do you mean eligius? Eligius is not in credit, and even if it were I don't think the expected value would be 100% because the round may go on longer than the credit. |
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New loan to ClutchThese. I'm giving seller financing on the sale of an AntMiner S1 which is held by me as collateral until paid off. The loan and mining is visible at http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1N7wXVJTtPBuW2HRTxrQpBbdXCZ3wmS17chttps://blockchain.info/address/1N7wXVJTtPBuW2HRTxrQpBbdXCZ3wmS17cOnce the balance at that address reaches the sale price of 0.938 plus hosting at 0.005 per 15 days (due in advance) plus interest of 1% per week (due in advance), with a maximum term of one month the loan will be considered paid off and the miner will be shipped to ClutchThese priority mail at the seller/lender's expense. Down payment of 0.365 already made and additional payments may be made at any time. Initial balance of the loan is 0.62823 Confirmed. Thanks! Small correction hosting is 0.05/15 days, edited above. ClutchThese please confirm. That is correct. no worries! The miner has been moved to another pool so it is no longer possible to monitor the mining and the mining no longer automatically applies toward repayment. The above links are still valid for repayment but the eligius link will stop accruing value. Confirmed. Thanks for doing this. ghash.io should allow me to pay back the loan at a much faster rate. Are you able to withdraw the funds from eligius and apply it towards the loan yet? I believe this will require the minimum threshold to be moved down. Thanks again! I can but I am deliberately waiting because they sometimes pay out old shares, so I'd rather let it accumulate for a while rather than have a few shares produce a tiny balance later. You can consider the balance there as counting toward payment of the loan even though it doesn't show on the loan address yet. EDIT: Looks like you did well to move. Two more terrible rounds today. |
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New loan to ClutchThese. I'm giving seller financing on the sale of an AntMiner S1 which is held by me as collateral until paid off. The loan and mining is visible at http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1N7wXVJTtPBuW2HRTxrQpBbdXCZ3wmS17chttps://blockchain.info/address/1N7wXVJTtPBuW2HRTxrQpBbdXCZ3wmS17cOnce the balance at that address reaches the sale price of 0.938 plus hosting at 0.005 per 15 days (due in advance) plus interest of 1% per week (due in advance), with a maximum term of one month the loan will be considered paid off and the miner will be shipped to ClutchThese priority mail at the seller/lender's expense. Down payment of 0.365 already made and additional payments may be made at any time. Initial balance of the loan is 0.62823 Confirmed. Thanks! Small correction hosting is 0.05/15 days, edited above. ClutchThese please confirm. That is correct. no worries! The miner has been moved to another pool so it is no longer possible to monitor the mining and the mining no longer automatically applies toward repayment. The above links are still valid for repayment but the eligius link will stop accruing value. |
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700DOGE collateral for a 0.002btc loan?
Declined. 1. I don't do tiny loans like that. 2. The collateral has to be at least equal in value to the amount borrowed, generally more. |
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it will be always big discussion which pool has better payouts. if we are only "thinking" about it this discussion is senseless...
i have reference miners in different pools since 2 months and can say pretty clear that mining in eligius is for sure not more effective than mining in p2pool. even with lots of bad luck in p2pool last few months i have better payouts in p2pool.
numbers? I'm sorry, I don't buy it. I don't know his numbers but I do know eligius hasn't had great luck lately either, so that may be part of it. Last year I was consistently at around 99% of max payout on eligius but over the past couple of months it is more like 97%. I'm probably below par on p2pool as well though, but I don't have an exact number. Somebody is getting all the luck in this network, but its not me. i plan to shift a small fraction of my hashrate to ghash as well, hopefully that will help smooth things out more. |
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How much doge do you want and why trade here vs. say cryptsy?
well I was hoping for a better price... And why would somebody give you a better price instead of selling on cryptsy? You think they haven't heard of it? |
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Do you have a private mine with your own equipment, built for your mine for you and your company and its Venture Capital investors?
We currently don't have a farm. Our data center is solely for hosting our customers units. We don't have plan to have a farm during 2014. We want to concentrate on building and selling the best mining machines, not operate farms. Clear enough ? Where did your company's name come from? google it |
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I'm not sure that last statement about being higher payout than Eligius is accurate. You can put 0% donation into both, both pay transaction fees, and Eligius pays merged mining on NMC. Yes you can merge mine in p2pool, but you are solo merged mining, which is almost the same as solo mining BTC.
I did not claim it has a higher payout. I claimed it has a higher expected value (a mathematical term similar to average) over a finite period of time (more precisely a finite number of shares). In fact they have the same expected value over an infinite time horizon, as far as I can tell. And when you throw in increasing variance with p2pool, I definitely think Eligius comes out ahead (which is why I'm there, not on p2pool).
I agree eligius most certainly has lower variance and may be preferable for that reason. This is a different question than expected value in finite time. There are other pools that also have higher expected value than eligius in finite time but also have lower variance (certainly much lower than p2pool and possibly lower than eligius though this is certainly not clear). It isn't my intent here to promote any particular pool so I won't name names. I'm just pointing out some differences in payout methods that may or may not matter to a particular miner. BTW, solo mining has the exact same expected value as mining on a zero fee hop-proof pool. But obviously very different variance. |
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Let's posit that both pools have the same expected value for a share given infinite time.
Let's further posit that shares are proportional to time. This is not exactly true, but it is close. If you do not like this equivalence, then you may modify my original statement to be that the payout for p2pool is greater over a finite number of shares.
The payout for a share is made over at most N shares for p2pool. Once N is reached your expected payout is equal to the expected value of the share. The payout for that same share on Eligius is made over a potentially infinite number of shares (blocks). Thus for any future share > N, e(p2pool) has an expected payout value of 0 and Eligius has some expected payout value > 0. Sp when we reach N (and for any finite number of shares >=N), the expected value paid out by p2pool is greater than the expected value paid out by Eligius, because Eligius still has some remaining expected payments > 0 while p2pool does not.
For shares < N it isn't as clear. I'm ignoring that case. If your window is less than N your expected payout for Eligius may in fact be higher, I'm not sure.
I'm really not sure if this is not clear to you or if you would just like to see it stated more formally.
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