I heard ppl say put it in bank safety box and put it in two parts.  That seem good idea since well even if someone get access to your box with half the seed, they still need the other half.  But what if someone break into the safe and you didn't know until later on?  Or say it happens and your seed paper is gone... though that person only need to take a picture of it or write it down as taking the paper would be dumb as it would draw suspicion.  But if you lose half the seed, and say your hardware wallet malfunctions, then you are like screwed.


I know ppl say the moment you don't have access to your seed, immediately get the coins out of that current wallet.  But if you are on vacation and you come back and house burn or flood, well then you are screwed.  I mean its like unless you live in one of those nice high rise condos or hotels with security to check in... its like you are always vulnerable?  For example i feel like if you live in those luxury buildings with security and live in the mid to higher floors... well then your seed, device will be pretty safe? 



So wouldn't that mean typing your seed in lastpass/keepass and storing that in your google drive or dropbox... would still be relatively safe?  Because hacker need to hack your email... but they need to get in your lastpass/keepass which would be very hard to almost impossible assuming you dont have malware on your laptop?  I feel like its safe this way because well if there is a fire or flood and your seed is destroyed or device is destroyed or whatnot, well as long as you remember your gmail/dropbox password and of course your lastpass/keepass password, well the seed is there.  People say never store your seed in an email, but isn't this way more complex since they need to get through multiple steps?  First the email or dropbox cloud service, then they need the password program password?  And you might even encrypt it as well.  But if you do so much, of course you could forget one of the passwords.

I had an electrum seed and wrote it on piece of paper.  I then decided to write it on a password program like lastpass/keepass.  So in order to get into the lastpass, you need a password.  And i put the lastpass in dropbox/google drive and store it there.  My thought was if someone somehow hacked into my gmail/dropbox, well they still need the password to my lastpass in order to get into my electrum seed.  I put the electrum seed in there as i type it out a long with my other bank account and everything whether its online site or anything.



Then i no longer used electrum.  I used a nano ledger s and store coins there.  But I did not type in my nano ledger seed in lastpass and thus did not store that in gmail/dropbox.  But again if i did... well a hacker would need to first hack into my gmail/dropbox... then get into the lastpass or keepass etc.  Wouldn't that be very hard?  And imagine you encrypt lastpass as well.  Wouldn't that be way too hard?



So i only have the seed written on paper and put it in the house.  But of course things could happen like fire, floods etc.  So what is the best way to store your seed to prevent this?  I heard of cryptosteel where its fireproof and floodproof so that works?  But isn't the issue if someone finds it, well its pretty easy to see oh why is there a bunch of long words and some ppl might even figure out its the seed to a wallet?



Now if you write the seed in a notebook with a ton of stuff there, well that would be hard for someone to find.  Imagine like you have a notebook where you have the seed there but also in the first few pages write down like nursery school rhyme or children books and lot of stuff like that, well obviously it won't look like its important.



Also i hear ppl say break your seed into two or three parts.  That makes sense but do you leave all the parts in the same house/apartment?  You hear about how you give one half to someone else you trust, you keep other half.  Well what if you no longer see the other person anymore or something happens, then what?  Obviously you would need to immediately send your coins to a temporary wallet in the meantime.

Okay that is what i recalled a while back, that it hasn't happened yet.


I would definitely want to check and verify, but the last few times when i did the download of the new electrum, when i looked at the digital signature... i remember being confused at how to verify it as it looked confusing.  Thats what i remembered.  Well yea... i can imagine first time i download something without verifying and then hack... that is why i didnt even want to touch electrum anymore.

Hey hcp, yes i know what you mean.  But the last few times i downloaded the updated electrum, i never checked the digital verification signature because I didn't know how.  I saw the instructions last time and it confused me... so i just made sure i downloaded from the site and its fine.


Has there ever been a case when someone downloaded from the official electrum site and downloaded malware because of a hacker hacking the server ever though?  Because if it still hasn't happened even once... then it should be fine even not checking the signature right?

HCP thanks.  Well because of how risk averse i am, nothing wrong with buying that cable on amazon to try it then right?  Thus try and connect it to my old nano ledger and to my laptop to see what happens?


Also would you recommend the blowdrying it like someone else suggested in the thread?  Now if one method somehow works and it restores it, I assume if it does, it would be still a dimmed screen at best... then obviously enter wrong pin and reset it right?  But if it doesn't work, what should i do with it?  Break it with a hammer?  I mean there is no harm to just have it with me right?  I obviously won't just toss it out in the garbage.

I would always say buy it directly from ledger.  I would be very skeptical from getting it on ebay/amazon.



But what i notice was when i checked amazon.com... the price is not only cheaper, but the seller seems be called ledger reseller.  But is that one hundred percent legit?  I read the last few reviews and some ppl said the ledger appears to be tampered with and opened and they returned it.  But what do they mean by official ledger seller or reseller?  Their location they put down is also France.  So it's not exactly from ledger themselves... but ledger sells it to them and they resell it?



The price they seem to charge is a bit like over 50 dollars only.  But how do you know they are legit?  Example what if someone buys it from them then do something to it and send it back to them?  Then they send it back to you?



Also i asked this before but there has been zero cases of someone using a ledger that has been really physically tampered with right?  Like they did something to the software to the point where even if you reset it once or twice and get a new seed... its compromised?  I see lot of ppl talk about not buying off ebay or amazon but has there been any case of a tampered ledger that is not that social engineering trick where they give you the seed and pin and things like that?  Since that is like a trick... that isn't like compromised.



The more i think about it, is it one hundred percent safe even if someone gives or sells you a used nano ledger because a reset should automatically wipe it clean?  I just haven't heard any cases of a real tampered ledger.  Like all i hear is as long as you reset the device, you are fine. 

Okay I got a new nano ledger s and restored it with my old seed and got it to work thanks to HCP.



Now... what should i do with the nano ledger s that doesn't work?  Should i attempt to blowdry it and then connect to my laptop to see if it works?  Since there is no risk anymore since i got a new nano ledger s and restored the seed?



The other thing i thought was just buy another cable of the thing that you connect the ledger to?   Someone told me it was like a regular usb cable and only a few dollars.  I don't think i have this cable with me... except of course the new nano ledger s that it came with.  It would be really foolish and stupid to use the new nano ledger s cable and connect it to broken nano ledger s and connect it to my laptop to see if it turns on right?  Because if the broken nano ledger doesn't turn on.. and i connect the new nano ledger s cable to it, i risk damaging it?

Hey all.  If you read my previous thread a while back, my nano ledger s after a few years had a very dim screen that was very hard to read.  Then I didn't touch it for months... then one day i plugged it in and it didn't even turn on.  I then got a new nano ledger s and put in my seed... which had issues at first but another member here HCP helped me with it and then it worked and i restored my coins in my new nano ledger.



Now for the future, what should i do to store thr nano ledger s?



The thing is im located in a very hot country and its extremely humid.  Thus think electronics like tvs and monitors can go bad because of it.  Im in the US now but will be heading back there soon.  The thing was i kept my nano ledger s in like a fanny pack... zipped inside it.  Now i had it like that for almost two years with no issue.  So imagine you just put your nano ledger s in the fanny pack, zipped up... only to take it out and use it the few times when you need to do a transaction.  I also did not have my nano ledger s box at the time as i left that back in the US.



So when i go back there, what is the best way to store it if my apartment is humid?   Again almost all apartments have this issue, not only mine.  If you find a nicer apartment, you still going to have humidity issues but maybe not as bad as mine?  Im in a small studio apartment.  I do have my glass door opened during the day and my ceiling fans on all day and night... and of course have the ac turned on a few hours a day almost.  Most ppl do the same where im located due to the humidity.



Now should i just leave it there on a table like where i have my computer/monitor?  That way it can breath as oppose to sticking it in a fanny pack zipped up?  Or should i bring the nano ledger s box with me and just put it inside the box?  My thoughts to put it inside a fanny pack was because my apartment is humid, leaving it just there on a table might not be good idea because humidity might affect it... but does putting it in a fanny pack zipped up make it worth?  I know there is no battery in the nano ledger s though.  If i had the nano ledger s box with me, i would have just put it in a box.  But does the box when closed protect from the humidity of the apartment?



Also i didn't want to like leave it right in the open on the table in plain site so that is was why i put it in my fanny pack.  My studio apartment is very tiny so you can't really hide a nano ledger s anywhere.


Anyone have tips on this?  I mean my nano ledger s could have just went bad with the screen... someone else mentioned it happened to him not long ago and it was a defect.  But anyone know if humidity is a factor in this?  Like where would be the ideal location to put it in?  Install a safe in the wall and put it there?  Or buy a safe and put it there?  But wouldn't it locked up cause humidity issues?  Also i never liked the idea of a safe in a house or apartment because if someone is there... well obviously first thing you look for is a safe.  Also many ppl if they see a nano ledger s there on a table, they might think its a usb stick.



I mean you don't want it in plain site, but you also don't want to put it in a humid/hot place.

HCP... yes ... that is how it looked back then... and how it looked now. 


So when i was typing in the pin, i thought... they completely changed that as well. 

HCP and everyone else, I appreciate all of your help.   But especially you HCP.



You have no idea how anxious and nervous I was ever since yesterday.  Well HCP, you certainly did since i messaged you so much.  Again im not tech savy and i freak out a lot in this.  But all you guys seem very relaxed with this which is what i try to be... but tech like this always scares me.  I even get nervous when i connect my ledger whenever to my laptop.  But my big concern was i never tested my seed as in restore it before this time.  So if i had a wrong word or seed, then i would been screwed.



Again thanks to all of you especially HCP.  But when HCP yesterday told me yea... the restoring word seed was a lot different than normal, then that made me feel a bit better. Also one other thing.  Is the screen display much different when you put in the pin number?  I noticed the first thing was when i connected my laptop to it and put a pin... the screen is like a bit different like the numbers seem to be bigger or something compared to it months ago?  HCP did you notice this as well?  Like when you type in the numbers for pin, they are much bigger/wider?

Okay so the version i have is the oldest version I could have where I don't get any of those malicious updates right?  I remember over a year ago someone said make sure you update to 3.3.4 and you won't get any of those messages.  So that is still the case as of today?


You ask why not remove the installed version and download the latest version?  Well... because i really don't want to use electrum or even turn it on anymore because of fear in case a message suddenly pops up.  Years ago when they started having those malicious updates, I didn't check my electrum wallet for a long time because i was concerned if i open it and i get a message, somehow something goes wrong.  And i haven't kept any btc in electrum in over a year already... i don't plan to send any btc to it unless its a small amount. 



So thats why i dont want to download the latest version.  Also any electrum i ever downloaded... i made sure i downloaded straight from the exactly electrum site.  But my issue was i never verified the signature ever... because I didn't know how to do it.  I saw the instructions and it was just confusing to me.  So everytime i downloaded an update till the last updated electrum I did, i was very nervous each time.  Like imagine yea its the real electrum update on the site... but hackers somehow got in electrum server and anyone who download or did an update on electrum around that time could download malicious electrum.  So thats why...

Well I decided to just leave both checked.



Then I see in my accounts Bitcoin (native segwit) with no btc and Bitcoin 1 (segwit) with the correct amount of btc.



Then i added bitcoin cash and it shows as bitcoin cash 1 and the correct amount of bch is there.



I also added bitcoin gold as well even though I don't have any bitcoin gold but i had the app installed in the old nano ledger s and when i did this, it shows the name as Bitcoin Gold 1 (segwit)?  Previously i recall the name i had there in the old nano ledger s with ledger live was bitcoin gold 1 only so why does it name segwit after it?



So right now it shows in my accounts



Bitcoin 1 (native segwit) with no btc                                Bitcoin Gold 1 (segwit) with no bitcoin gold which is correct



Bitcoin Cash 1 (segwit) with correct amount of BCH          Bitcoin 1 (segwit) with the correct amount of btc





So everything is good then right?  Thus the seed that I put in yesterday is exactly the same seed as my old nano ledger s?



Also if i wanted to, i could just delete that account Bitcoin 1 (native segwit) with no btc  right?  And thus have the same three accounts like i did before this?  With the btc gold, bch and btc?



Thus no point in me even sending a tiny bit of btc to electrum anymore to test this right since this confirms my seed i put in yesterday is correct since this all shows up?

Okay i manually deleted all those accounts.


Now when i add account and add bitcoin



It shows


Add existing account


Bitcoin 1 (segwit)  -  Correct Amount of BTC and Blue Check Mark Next To It



Add new account


Bitcoin 1 (native segwit)  - Blue Check Mark Next to It

Bitcoin 2 (segwit)   -  No Check Mark



So right now there is blue check mark for those 2 accounts.  So i click add accounts now?  I assume I leave the check mark Bitcoin 1 (segwit) as is and uncheck the native segwit?  Or just leave it as is?


There is no legacy word anywhere there.  

HCP, okay im going to do it right now.



To delete each of the accounts, you need to manually do each one right?  Thus right click, edit, then delete each one?


I will start off with the bitcoin 1 native segwit... then do bitcoin gold, bitcoin cash 1 and then bitcoin 1 (segwit)?

Thanks.  But can anyone here confirm because it went to the last part of the transaction where it ask me if i want to send 0.0001 btc to that address and then ask to accept/reject... that should confirm my old coins from my broken nano ledger s... is in fact in my new nano ledger s that i restored with my seed then? 


The thing is if i send some btc to electrum... that electrum is an older version and i havent used it in a while.  I opened it recently and it doesn't have no issue but i don't keep any coins there anymore.  Someone said there is risk if i dont update electrum but i honestly dont even want to open it anymore.  But i thought i needed a place to send tiny amount of btc... to confirm okay my new nano ledger s has the old coins from my old nano ledger s.

Hey there.  Well i never updated electrum in a while because i haven't used it in over a year... also have no btc kept there anymore.  The only reason i ask this is because im considering sending some btc from my new nano ledger s to the electrum because i restored my nano ledger s seed but not sure if its linked to my old coins in my old nano ledger s.  Can you look at my last posts in hardware thread on this?


Yes i use windows ten.  Backup of my electrum wallet?  I dont have any btc there at all and haven't for over a year and don't plan to keep any btc in it.  If you mean backup of the electrum seed... i have that as i wrote that down years ago.


But its still risky opening the electrum version i have now?  So if i do a transaction with it whether it works or not, there is still potential risk even opening the program up?  Or only if you see the update electrum message?  Again, I haven't opened electrum in a long time and don't plan to use it anymore... its just right now i was thinking about sending tiny amount of btc to it from nano ledger s because i restored my nano ledger seed but not sure if my old coins from the old nano ledger s is there.

Hi.  I used electrum a while back when i first had btc.  I kept btc in electrum for a while until a few years ago, i got a nano ledger s and transferred all my btc from electrum to the nano ledger s.  Main reason was because i read about hardware wallets years ago and how its better and how electrum had all the fake wallets/updates which did not make me feel good about electrum.



Since then, I have used electrum once or twice only and it was to send/receive a small amount of btc there and then send it to my nano ledger s or a site etc.



I just logged into my electrum and I see the version i have is 3.3.4.  Again i have not downloaded updated versions because i haven't done a transaction there or kept btc there in over a year.  



What I like to know is if i want to make a few frequent transactions with electrum, such as sending btc to electrum and vice versa, is it fine to just use this version or not?  I remember last time i downloaded to this version, someone said make sure i have at least this version i have.  So i downloaded it.  Or its better to upgrade to the latest version even if I don't plan to use it?  I didn't feel like good idea because with all the fake wallets and messages out there with electrum.  I don't even like clicking the electrum icon and opening it thinking i get an update message etc.



The thing is now... I wanted to send a tiny amount of btc to my electrum account because my old nano ledger s stopped working... then i got a new nano ledger s... and then i put in the nano ledger s seed recovery and i believe my coins are restored to my new nano ledger s that i got.  But im not for sure the coins i have in ledger live is connected to my current nano ledger s.  So i was thinking about sending tiny amount of btc from my new nano ledger s  to an old electrum address to see if it works.  Then if it does, i would then send that tiny amount of btc from electrum back to my nano ledger s.  But my concern would be... if i try to send btc from electrum back to nano ledger s, is there a chance i see a message to download the newest electrum and it could be malware?  So that is why i havent used electrum in a while because concern of popup and asking about downloading an update.



But would i need to send btc from my nano ledger s to my electrum to confirm my coins are indeed in my new nano ledger s though if when i tried to send earlier, it seem to show the small amount of btc and the electrum address and ask if i like to accept/decline the transaction?  Because if i had no btc in my current nano ledger s, it wouldn't even allow me to attempt to send 0.0001 btc to an old electrum address and ask for me to accept/reject right?



This is my issue i posted on the hardware wallet forum.  Could you read the last few posts especially since I believe my coins are in my new nano ledger s?  There is no point of sending tiny amount of btc anyway to electrum to confirm i have these coins because it got to the last step of accept/reject right?  Or just send the tiny amount of btc anyway to electrum to test it out?


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5278508.20

Hey all.  So I decided to open electrum up and try to attempt to send a tiny amount of btc from my nano ledger s to my electrum.



When I did this, i clicked on menu side on ledger live and clicked send.  Then i clicked on bitcoin 1 segwit which has my btc.  Then i copied an old electrum address to send to and clicked next.  For amount, i put in like 0.0001 btc of the possible x btc i have... and for the sending fees... default seems high... like fees is almost a dollar now?  Well i changed it to around 0.00001 btc or around ten cents.



Then clicked next and it went to summary.  Then it showed around 0.0001 btc to send and sending fees were around 0.00001 btc and I click next. 



Then it went to the last step... device.  Then it ask me to check my nano ledger s and on the nano ledger s screen, it ask me to confirm... do i want to send around 0.0001 btc to the address.... they actually broke down the address into three parts to read it... previously i remember it was just one part where it goes from left to right and you need to read it really fast.



Then i right clicked on my ledger a few times and i could click on accept... or reject.  I then decided to reject it.



Now because my nano ledger s screen got to the last step with it showing do i want to confirm sending 0.0001 btc to a certain old electrum wallet and it gave me option to accept or reject... that confirms that my new nano ledger s has the correct seed put in from yesterday right?  That the btc segwit and bch accounts shown in my ledger live are in fact connected to this new nano ledger s?  Because if it wasn't... my nano ledger s would never show all that information on the screen to either accept/reject the transaction right?



Like had i had 0 btc in my new nano ledger s... it wouldn't been possible for it to confirm you want to send 0.0001 btc if it had 0 btc right?



Should I just do this again and accept and do that transaction and send that 0.0001 btc to an old electrum address to confirm or is that completely unnecessary now based on this information?


Thanks.

So right now, I can do one of two things right?


Either



Delete all my ledger live accounts, then add account for btc and bch and then see if it shows up correctly?  My concern is when i do this for btc... will i check mark that native segwit thing where i have to uncheck that and check which i assume is bitcoin segwit 1?  Then add bch account as well which I assume isnt going to be some weird confusing since there isn't like multiple things like native segwit and segwit?



Or


Try to send a tiny amount of btc from nano ledger s now to my old electrum address?  And if it goes through... then its good?  Then if it confirms, i should delete the bc1 account but should i also delete the btc, bch and btg accounts as well and add each of them again?   Or there would be no point?



Would my nano ledger s be able to attempt to send btc if i have no btc in the wallet?  Example if my nano ledger s has no btc... but when i go to send and click on btc... which show the amount of btc it has originally... then i copy/paste to electrum, then click send, would it show in my nano ledger s screen... you like to send 0.000x amount of btc to this address... is this address correct?  Would it even reach this part if i have no btc in my wallet?  I assume not right since if i had no btc... it wouldn't even get to the confirmation on my nano ledger s screen?



Again right now, i want to confirm the btc and bch accounts that always has been show in my ledger live... is in fact connected to my new nano ledger s where i did the seed recovery yesterday.




Because i feel like trying to send the btc first to electrum or attempt to do it... would confirm it better?  Then if it does, then i have zero concerns if deleting my accounts and restoring it.  Does that make sense?  Like if i just delete all accounts now and add them now, what if it doesn't show up the balances?  I would rather have the balances still showing there if you know what i mean even if i dont have the coins... does that make sense?



I like to finish this soon as this has been bothering me since yesterday.  I been basically on this since yesterday all day and till night. 


Can you guys confirm what I want to do here is the correct thing to confirm the coins in the btc and bch wallets in my ledger live are in fact connected to my new nano ledger s? 


Thank you.

Yes that is what im concerned about in your first sentence.  What shows up in my ledger live is not a reflection of the device it is attached to.  So how do i know for sure it is?  Is the only way to just send a tiny amount of btc from it to an old electrum address...  to see if it works?


Okay you say ledger live shows you the coins were in your old nano ledger s.  So that isn't the same as the specific btc or bch address?  I assume yes since your next statement means that?


Well here is the thing i mentioned earlier.  When i got the old nano ledger s years ago, the first thing i did was create a seed... then intentionally put wrong pin three times to reset it.  Then i did it a second time... create a new seed... then put wrong pin three times and reset it.  Then the third time, i created a new seed... then sent my btc from my electrum to the nano ledger s... and that has how it been ever since.  But i never ever confirmed the seed years ago because I didn't know there was a way to.  Actually around that time... I don't think there was that app which let you type in your seed to confirm the seed was correct.  But I did make sure to write the seed down twice and was very careful with it.  I then typed in the seed when doing the recovery and it worked.  Now im close to positive that this is the seed with the coins i have in my old nano ledger s. 
The thing is the first two seeds i created and reset when i first got my nano ledger s, I also wrote the seed for those first two times i created a seed as well... i didn't write it twice thought but only once on a paper but was careful but not as careful as the third seed i wrote which im positive is correct... which is correct because yesteday, it showed your device is ready.


Now there is obviously a very very tiny percent chance the first two seeds i wrote down... could possibly be my old nano ledger s account with my coins but the chances is almost nothing.  So that is why i ask... how do i confirm the seed which i put in yesterday for recovery is indeed the seed for my coins and not one of the other two seeds?  Again, im close to positive the seed i put down yesterday that worked is it.



So if i were to wipe my ledger live and add accounts again, then it would confirm the seed i put in yesterday is indeed my old nano ledger s right?  But when i add account, is it going to check mark that bc1 again?  Im guessing it would show bitcoin segwit 1 instead since i don't have that same name listed in my accounts?



But can i send btc or attempt to send a very tiny amount of btc now to electrum or attempt to send it.. to see if it works?  Because if i send say 0.0001 btc to an old electrum address... then if it confirms... then its fine right?  But if i had 0 btc in my new nano ledger s now... would it even allow me to attempt to send it?