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1581  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: BitMarket.eu Eternal withdrawal on: December 24, 2012, 01:41:15 AM
Close up shop and get out of bitcoin.
1582  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: BitMarket.Eu - ownership changed (in a way) on: December 24, 2012, 01:40:11 AM
Really!!??

BitMarket.eu and it's operators should be put on a bitcoin black list.  I understand that current creditors want to hold hope of getting their money back.

Ask  mybitcoin creditor how that worked out for them.

or Bitcoinica creditors.

or Bitfloor creditors.

etc.

The funds are gone and your hopes of being paid back only buy these operators time to magically solve a problem that never should have happened in the first play.

And how is that donation effort working out for you?
http://blockchain.info/address/1Km5GFMat1DXcbvMTeH9ZvLGKvFCLBA9dM

No sympathy here.  Sorry.
1583  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [COMMUNITY] Taaki, never tell anyone you are involved with Bitcoin ever again. on: December 24, 2012, 01:22:01 AM
"Where does supply come from?"

"Mathematics yeah"

Seriously, never speak in public again.

But thx for the laugh

Honestly I don't understand this criticism. Making good answer to that question is _very_ difficult. When I try to explain it, I usually fail, even when the counterparty is total programmer nerd. Then I resort to "you have to research it yourself from internet, start with the wikipedia article" or something. I usually ask if concepts such as cryptographic hash function and public-key crypto is known, and rarely even this is the case.

And usually these finance people tend not to be very math/crypto-heavy, so trying to explain it would have been only distraction.

It isn't that hard to explain and can be done without any low level explanation of cryptographic functions.  Here is an example (note if Q&A is after transaction processing has already been explained even this explanation can be reduced.  Then again if you go up there with a single slide which provides no useful details then you are setting yourself up to fail.

"Where does supply come from?"
Quote
Miners are transactions processors.   Miners protect the network and validate transactions.  As compensation for that service, when miners solve a block of transactions they receive a subsidy from the network.   That subsidy began at 50 BTC and the subsidy halves every 210,000 blocks (roughly every 4 years).  The subsidy halving will continue until all coins are minted.  The network self adjusts so that regardless of how many people are attempting to perform transaction processing only one block is found every 10 minutes on average.    The initial distribution of coins is to miners and as miners trade coins for goods and services (including exchanging them for other currencies) the coins are distributed to non-miners.


D&T.  Clear and concise and not overly complicated.  You should contribute to the wicki.  Seems that even other bitcoin business have trouble simply explaining to the laymen what it is that we do.

THAT'S A PROBLEM.
1584  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [COMMUNITY] Taaki, never tell anyone you are involved with Bitcoin ever again. on: December 23, 2012, 11:04:53 PM
AlexWaters

There is a link to a youtube video in here somewhere.

While I don't condone the extremes called for in this thread, that fact remains that Amir's presentation was unfortunate for both him personally and for bitcoin generally. Especially considering the the other bitcoin disasters with which Amir has been personally involved.

Even some of the statement made in the Macau video are unfortunate.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=131918.msg1413467#msg1413467


Again, my point here is to stress that bitcoin should (and actually does have to a degree [https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Public_relations] ) have  generally available talking points.  Anyone involved in bitcoin who speaks with the media would do well to review these points before making statments that end up reflecting on us all.



1585  Economy / Exchanges / Re: [ANN] Bitcoinica Consultancy abandons customers. Bitcoinica to enter Liquidation on: December 23, 2012, 09:13:00 PM
Turns out today that Bitmarket.eu was heavily invested in Bitcoinica and got owned as well. Along with most of its customers. Admin held it a secret for half a year until he ran out of funds very recently. A perfect date for the end of yet another exchange.

Just when you thought Team Zhou/Intersango couldn't fuck the Bitcoin project up any more, months later you find out the clusterfuck is even larger than life. That's what they call a domino effect.

Good thing I switched my passion to litecoins a long time ago. No disasters as of yet.

disclaimer201.  Where is this info?

Thx.
1586  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Dwolla updates TOS 2012-12-23 on: December 23, 2012, 05:32:57 AM
Another Dwolla TOS update.  There is a thread somewhere here with a previous TOS.  May a MOD can merge.  Someone also did a diff and highlighted the difference.  Maybe they could do that again.  THX

Dwolla User Agreement
Welcome to Dwolla. We developed Dwolla, a payment software, to make it easy for you to send and receive money online without all the fees of traditional systems. Although we would love to have a one page terms of service that was comprised of easy to read bullet points, unfortunately the realities of the legal world make that nearly impossible. So, please bear with us through all the legalities of this agreement- although we couldn't keep it to one page it is important you read and understand our service.


Terms and Conditions of Service
This User Agreement ("Agreement") may be modified by Dwolla at any time, for any reason, without prior notice. Please read the Agreement carefully, as it may have changed since Your last visit.

THIS IS AN IMPORTANT DOCUMENT, WHICH YOU MUST CONSIDER CAREFULLY WHEN CHOOSING WHETHER TO USE DWOLLA. PLEASE READ THIS AGREEMENT CAREFULLY. BY REGISTERING FOR, ACCESSING AND USING THE DWOLLA SYSTEM, YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU HAVE READ, UNDERSTOOD, AND AGREE TO BE BOUND BY THIS AGREEMENT. IF AT ANY TIME YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THESE TERMS AND CONDITIONS, YOU MUST IMMEDIATELY CEASE YOUR USE OF THE DWOLLA SYSTEM.

THIS AGREEMENT CONTAINS A BINDING ARBITRATION PROVISION, WHICH AFFECTS YOUR LEGAL RIGHTS AND MAY BE ENFORCED BY THE PARTIES.
Definitions
The following capitalized terms shall have the indicated meanings:
(a) "Dwolla, Inc.," or "Dwolla" or "Us" or "We" or "Our" refers to Dwolla, Inc., a company incorporated in Delaware that provides funds management software for Dwolla Users.
(b) "Dwolla System" or "Dwolla Software Platform" means software owned by Dwolla; provided to Dwolla Users by Dwolla; or used by Dwolla in the provision of its services.
(c) "Dwolla User," "User," "You," or "Your" means a natural person, corporation, or other entity that has established a User Account on the Dwolla System .
(d) "Partners" means natural persons or entities that Dwolla does business with in order to bring the Dwolla System to the marketplace.
(e) "Veridian Credit Union" ("Veridian") is an Iowa-chartered, federally insured credit union headquartered in Waterloo, Iowa.
(f) "Veridian Holding Account" is a pooled holding account at Veridian Credit Union that holds all the Dwolla Users funds.
(g) "User Account" is the online account with Dwolla on the Dwolla System associated with a Dwolla User.
(h) "Financial Institution" means any federally or state chartered bank, thrift, or credit union.
General
Dwolla provides a software platform that allows you as an individual, non-profit, or business to send and receive money.
You understand and agree to these important features of Your relationship with Dwolla as a Dwolla User: (1) Dwolla provides funds management software for Dwolla Users; (2) Dwolla does not receive, hold, or transmit User funds; Dwolla only maintains and manages information associated with User ownership of the funds; (3) Veridian is the entity that provides money transmission services upon instructions issued through the Dwolla software platform; and (4) Funds in the Veridian Holding Account are held in a pooled account. THESE FUNDS ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR INDIVIDUAL INSURANCE, AND MAY NOT BE ELIGIBLE FOR SHARE INSURANCE BY THE NATIONAL CREDIT UNION SHARE INSURANCE FUND.
Dwolla may only be used in connection with United States Financial Institutions: User funds must originate at a United States Financial Institution, and Dwolla will only instruct Veridian to transfer funds to a United States Financial Institution associated with the appropriate Dwolla User.
Representation
Dwolla acts on Your behalf by maintaining records related to Your User Account and by sending information and instructions associated with Your User Account to Veridian. You understand and agree that: (1) You are responsible for the accuracy and validity of all information provided to Dwolla or Veridian; (2) Your failure to provide accurate and valid information may result in actions taken against Your User Account by Dwolla, actions taken by Veridian with respect to the funds in the Veridian Holding Account, or other penalties or actions as detailed in this Agreement; and (3) Dwolla is not responsible for incorrect or invalid information provided to Veridian by You through the Dwolla System.
User Conduct
You understand and agree that you will not engage in the following activities:
● Use the Dwolla System without written consent to operate or engage in any business regulated by FinCen, including the money service business;
● Act as a marketplace and/or exchange for virtual currency products without prior written consent;
● Use the Dwolla System in association with or for payment of illegal goods or service, including, but not limited to, illegal substances, illegal online gambling/ wagering, pyramid schemes, or any type of money laundering;
● Attempt to falsify Your identity, such as by providing false account information or false documents; or
● Defraud Dwolla, Veridian, or other Dwolla Users in any way.
You understand and agree:
● You will provide information requested to determine your identity, including but not limited to the following: a valid U.S. address, phone number, Financial Institution account information, photo identification, and/or tax identification or social security number.
● You authorize Dwolla, directly or through Veridian or third parties, to make inquiries it considers necessary to validate Your identity, such as requesting additional information to validate Your Financial Institution account ownership, identity, and transaction authorization. This information is requested to protect Dwolla Users.
Referral Program

Use of the Referral Program requires acceptance of the terms and conditions listed below.

(1) Dwolla partners with Extole to provide services related to the referral program. Extole collects and process information on behalf of Dwolla. The user understands that Dwolla and Extole have separate and distinct Terms and Conditions and Privacy Policy. Use of the referral credits requires acceptance of Extole's Terms and Conditions and Privacy Policy.
(2) Referral credits are not transferable and may not be auctioned, traded, bartered or sold. They can only be used to credit Dwolla Transaction Fees. Upon termination of the Program or any portion thereof for any reason, or upon cancellation of a Referrer’s Dwolla account for any reason, any unredeemed Credit and Rewards accumulated by the Referrer are forfeited.
(3) Referral credits can expire at any time at the sole discretion of Dwolla and any remaining credits are forfeited at that time.
Guest Checkout

The Guest agrees to and accepts the terms and conditions of each of the paragraphs below.
(1) The guest represents that he/she has read and agrees to all of the terms of this Agreement. The Guest warrants and represents that he/she (i) is over 18 years of age, (ii) is using a valid US bank account, and (iii) is authorized to use the bank account.
(2) In order to use Dwolla guest Services, you must be directed to a guest payment screen by your receiver (an established Dwolla customer).
(3) The Guest authorizes Dwolla to perform debits and credits to/from the Guests bank account.
(4) The receiver authorizes Dwolla to perform debits/credits to their Dwolla account.
(5) The guest and receiver authorize Dwolla to resolve any disputes.
(6) You understand that (i) Dwolla is not a bank and the service is being provided on behalf of the receiver (and established Dwolla customers) as an electronic funds transfer processing service rather than a bank service. You also understand that we are not acting as a fiduciary, trustee, money transmitter, or providing any type of escrow service with respect to your funds, but only acting as the receiver’s agent.
(7) To the fullest extent permitted by applicable law, this Agreement and any other agreements, notices or other communications regarding your transaction and/or your use of the Service, may be provided to you electronically and you agree to receive all such information from Dwolla in electronic form. Information may be posted on the pages within the Dwolla website in electronic form.
(Cool All information in either electronic or paper form will be considered received by you no later than forty-eight (48) hours after posting or delivery.
Rights and Requirements to Use the Dwolla Guest Checkout Service
For the Sender:
Personal Information
You must give us the requested information that is current, true, accurate and complete. You are not permitted to use this Service on behalf of another party or use an unauthorized name. If we find or determine that any of the information you provide is outdated, false, inaccurate, or incomplete, we may terminate your use of the Service immediately and for all future use. This action on our part does not limit other remedies we may pursue to recover costs, losses, or other expenses we incur as a result of the information or lack of information you provide.
Upon providing Dwolla with your information, you are authorizing us, directly or through third parties, to make any inquiries we consider necessary to confirm your information. This may include the use of fraud-screening services to verify the information you provide as well as ordering a credit report and performing other forms of credit checks including verification against third party databases.
Bank Account Information:
You must provide Dwolla with a your routing and account number associated with your account. If we find that your account is closed or has insufficient funds, you transaction will not be processed. Please be advised that we reserve the right to reject any accounts at certain banks for the use of our Dwolla Service. In addition, we may require additional information and confirmation at our sole discretion or at the discretion of your Receiver and Dwolla. In general, consumer and business checking and savings accounts are permitted.
Right to Refuse Payment:
When you send a payment/transfer to a Receiver upon their direction through Dwolla, that Receiver is not required to accept the payment. The Receiver is free to return payments/transfers or, in some cases, to use the Dwolla system to reject or deny payments that you have sent. You understand that Dwolla will not be liable for any damages resulting from a Receiver's decision not to accept a payment made through Dwolla. Any disputes you may have related to a refusal by a Receiver should be handled directly between you and the Receiver. Any payments through Dwolla that are denied or unclaimed by a Receiver will be returned to the Sender either on the date of such denial, or within 30 days from the date the payment was originally sent, whichever is earlier.
For the Receiver:
Authorize Dwolla as an Agent
You agree and authorize Dwolla to act as an agent on your behalf to electronically debit the senders bank account and credit the funds to your Dwolla account.
Authorizations for Chargeback:
You understand that Dwolla does not warrant the transactions and that these transactions are subject to ACH chargeback processes. You agree and warrant that any chargebacks received by Dwolla can and will be debited from your Dwolla account and if such funds do not exist a debit for the chargeback amount will be placed against the bank account to which the funds were withdrawn.
For Dwolla:
On behalf of the Receiver, Dwolla shall make reasonable efforts to ensure that requests for Dwolla transactions and the related electronic debits and credits involving bank accounts, are processed in a timely manner. Many factors outside the control of the Receiver and Dwolla may contribute to when your Receiver will actually credit your account. For this reason, we recommend that you schedule all Dwolla transactions so that the estimated settlement date is at twenty-four hours (24 hours) before the actual due date that you would like the transaction to clear. Although the estimated settlement date is shown to you, we do not make any warranties regarding the amount of time needed to complete processing with your Receiver. Dwolla and your Receiver shall not be liable for any actual or consequential damages arising from any claim of delay of Dwolla transactions due to any number of reasons, including but not limited to the following:
● Insufficient funds in your designated bank account or available credit on your credit/debit card account to complete the electronic payment request;
● Failure to provide correct or complete personal or Receiver information; or
● Other circumstances beyond the control of Dwolla (such as but not limited to fire, flood, earthquakes, war, riots, acts of terrorism, delays in the banking system or interference from a third party source).
In addition, Dwolla and/or Receiver, at its sole discretion reserves the right to restrict electronic payment requests from a Sender's designated bank account for any one of the reasons listed below:
● Unauthorized or unusual use of your designated bank or credit/debit card account;
● Transfer or receipt of fraudulent or suspected fraudulent funds or credit/debit card use;
● Detection of excessive disputes or reversals, or "kiting" type attempts;
● Failure to cooperate in an investigation, dispute, or provide additional requested information when requested;
● Any noncompliance with the terms and conditions of this Agreement;
● Failure to confirm any personal or bank account information previously provided by Sender associated with the use of our Service; or
● Insufficient funds, available credit, returns, or reversals of any kind related to your bank account or credit/debit card account.
We will use reasonable efforts to research and resolve such matters as specified above to reach a conclusion as quickly as possible for all parties involved.
In the event there is a dispute covering a specific transaction, we may restrict the electronic funds or credit related to that particular transaction. Dwolla may also restrict all transactions for a designated period of time or until further notice to Sender to protect itself and/or the Receiver against the risk or returns or reversals. If needed, we may cancel your payment service request by notifying you and sending you a check or credit for credit card payment for any funds owed to you at the address you provided us. At a later point, if it is determined that you are entitled to the amount in dispute, additional payment will be made accordingly.
Actions Against Your User Account due to Non-Compliance with User Conduct Requirements or Security Concerns
YOU UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO ACCESS FUNDS HELD IN THE VERIDIAN HOLDING ACCOUNT IF YOUR USER ACCOUNT IS CLOSED, SUSPENDED, HAS A HOLD PLACED ON IT, OR IS OTHERWISE LIMITED, AS DETAILED IN THIS SECTION.
You understand and agree that Dwolla is not responsible for any losses or liability resulting from actions taken against Your User Account as detailed in this section.
You understand and agree that the decision by Dwolla to take certain actions, including placing holds on or limiting access to Your User Account as detailed below, may be based on confidential criteria that are essential to risk management or security concerns. You understand and agree that neither Dwolla nor Veridian are under any obligation to disclose the details of its risk management or its security procedures to You.
You understand and agree that Dwolla is authorized, pursuant to general parameters of conduct established by Veridian, to take the following actions due User misconduct or Security Concerns as detailed in this section:
● Place a Hold on Your User Account for Up to 90 days:
● Temporarily or Permanently Suspend or otherwise Limit Your Access to Your User Account:
● Contact Users who have purchased goods or services from You, contact Your bank or credit card issuer, and/or warn other Users, law enforcement, or impacted third parties of Your actions; or
● Take legal action against you
If Dwolla, acting in accordance with the general parameters of conduct established by Veridian, takes an action against Your User Account, including: placing a hold on, suspending or otherwise limiting Your access to, or terminating Your User Account, We will provide You with notice that such action has been taken against Your User Account. Dwolla may also provide the opportunity to request restoration of access if it is deemed appropriate by Dwolla acting in accordance with the general parameters of conduct established by Veridian.
User Misconduct or Security Concerns that may result in any of the above listed actions, as applicable, include:
● Your Non-compliance with the User Conduct Requirements detailed in this Agreement, including attempting to use the Dwolla system for illegal purposes or attempting to falsify your identity or provide false information;
● Inability of Dwolla to acquire sufficient information to verify your identity;
● A determination by Dwolla, pursuant to general parameters of conduct established by Veridian, that a Hold on Your User Account is reasonably needed to protect against the risk of liability;
● A determination by Dwolla, pursuant to general parameters of conduct established by Veridian, that there may be a high level of risk associated with You, other Dwolla users involved in the payments You receive, Your User Account, or any or all of Your transactions.
Debt
You agree in the event You have unpaid debts or bills with Users within the Dwolla System, other Users may use documentation within the Dwolla System in collection of that debt. This includes, but is not limited to, unpaid invoices or unfulfilled contractual agreements. You agree Dwolla will not be held liable for any losses or debts incurred during Your experience with other Dwolla Users.
Login / Password / PIN
You agree that You will not share Your login information, password, or PIN with anyone else. You understand and agree to take all necessary steps to protect Your User Account information as detailed in this Agreement. Dwolla will never ask for Your password or PIN number. You agree Dwolla carries no liability for losses or problems that may arise due to Your sharing this private information with other people, businesses, or entities.
You agree Dwolla may communicate usage information to Your Financial Institution or any service providers to that Financial Institution.
Multiple User Accounts and Dual Log In Sessions
You understand and agree that You may not maintain multiple User Accounts or use multiple User Accounts simultaneously. You understand and agree that Dwolla may provide Your usage information and personal information to state or federal law enforcement in accordance with applicable law. Any misuse or misrepresentation of the Dwolla System (including, but not limited to, attempting to use multiple User Accounts) may result in suspension of Your User Account or other actions.
Dwolla User Accounts are also not eligible for dual log in sessions, meaning that a User of a personal account may not simultaneously be logged in to his or her User Account on more than one page or from more than one location. In the event a second log in session is initiated, You agree Dwolla may disconnect both log in sessions and require any User to revalidate the User Account.
Reversals
The party receiving funds in a transaction may be subject to reversals occurring within the account if claims are made by the sending party or by the sending party's financial institution.
You understand and agree that:
● If there is a reversal of a payment to you, you will be liable to Veridian for the full amount of the reversed payment plus a fee in the amount of $15 ("Reversal fee"). The reversed payment plus the reversal fee is the "Reversal Liability."
● Reversals are debited by Veridian in the Veridian Holding Account and will be reflected in Your Dwolla User Account. /p>
● If You do not have a balance in Your Dwolla User Account that is sufficient to cover Your Reversal Liability, the remaining balance in Your Dwolla User Account (if any) will be used to cover the Reversal Liability, and You authorize Dwolla, acting on behalf of Veridian, to take any of the following actions:
         1. Debit your attached Bank Account in the amount of the unpaid portion of the Reversal Liability;
         2. Suspend Your User Account and require you to take immediate actions to repay the unpaid portion of the Reversal Liability; and/or
         3. Engage in collection efforts to recover the unpaid portion of the Reversal Liability.
Error Resolution
In Case of Errors or Questions About Your Electronic Transfers Telephone us at (515) 280-1000 or E-mail us at compliance@dwolla.com.
You should contact us as soon as you can if you think your account statement is wrong or if you need more information about a transfer listed on the account statement. We must hear from you no later than 60 days after the account statement was first available for you to access on the Dwolla system in which the problem or error appeared.
        (1) Tell us your name and account number (if any).
        (2) Describe the error or the transfer you are unsure about, and explain as clearly as you can why you believe it is an error or why you need more information.
        (3) Tell us the dollar amount of the suspected error.
If you tell us orally, we may require that you send us your complaint or question in writing within 10 business days.
We will determine whether an error occurred within 10 business days after we hear from you and will correct any error promptly. If we need more time, however, we may take up to 45 days to investigate your complaint or question. If we decide to do this, we will credit your account within 10 business days for the amount you think is in error, so that you will have the use of the money during the time it takes us to complete our investigation. If we ask you to put your complaint or question in writing and we do not receive it within 10 business days, we may not credit your account.
For errors involving new accounts, we may take up to 90 days to investigate your complaint or question and may take up to 20 business days to credit your account for the amount you think is in error.
We will tell you the results within three business days after completing our investigation. If we decide that there was no error, we will provide you a written explanation. You may ask for copies of the documents that we used in our investigation.
Logging
You agree Dwolla, for security, legal and performance purposes, shall record information and transaction information. This includes, but is not limited to, Your operating system, IP address, usage statistics, and transaction frequency. This information can be vital for not only security, but insuring our products are fulfilling their intended purposes.
System Maintenance and Updates
Dwolla may, from time to time, perform maintenance on its systems and/or update its systems. Such maintenance and updates may result in temporary unavailability of the Dwolla System and temporary inability to access Your funds held at Veridian. You agree to relieve Dwolla from any liability or losses that may be associated of such maintenance or updates.
Warranty
SERVICES PROVIDED BY DWOLLA ARE ONLY AS REPRESENTED IN THIS USER AGREEMENT. DWOLLA DOES NOT INSURE FUNDS. FUNDS ASSOCIATED WITH USER ACCOUNTS USING DWOLLA'S SYSTEM ARE HELD IN AN ACCOUNT MAINTAINED BY VERIDIAN CREDIT UNION. FUNDS HELD AT VERIDIAN ARE HELD IN A POOLED ACCOUNT. THESE FUNDS ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR INDIVIDUAL INSURANCE, AND MAY NOT BE ELIGIBLE FOR SHARE INSURANCE BY THE NATIONAL CREDIT UNION SHARE INSURANCE FUND. NO OTHER WARRANTIES ARE EXPRESS OR IMPLIED.
No Endorsement or Guarantee
YOU UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT DWOLLA IS SOFTWARE PLATFORM THAT MANAGES INFORMATION ASSOCIATED WITH USER FUNDS HELD IN THE VERIDIAN HOLDING ACCOUNT, AND DWOLLA DOES NOT PROVIDE ANY ENDORSEMENTS OR GUARANTEES FOR ANY INDIVIDUAL, COMPANY, OR OTHER ENTITY USING THE DWOLLA SYSTEM, AND DOES NOT ASSUME ANY LIABILITY FOR PRODUCTS OR SERVICES PURCHASED USING DWOLLA SOFTWARE.
Force Majeure
You understand and agree Dwolla will not be held responsible for losses or damages resulting from suspension of service due to extraordinary events or circumstances beyond the control of Dwolla Corp (a "force majeure event"). In the event of a force majeure event, Dwolla may suspend service and access to the Dwolla System
3rd party API use
You agree Dwolla will not be responsible and holds no guarantees regarding the reliability, use, or misuses therein of the Dwolla API program. Please see our separate API Agreement here www.dwolla.com/tos/dev.
Consent to Electronic Transactions and Disclosures
Because Dwolla operates only on the Internet, it is necessary for You to consent to transact business with Us online and electronically. As part of doing business with Us and Veridian, therefore, We also need You to consent to Our giving You certain disclosures electronically, either via Our Site or to the email address You provide to us. By agreeing to this Agreement, You agree to receive electronically all documents, communications, notices, contracts, and agreements arising from or relating to Your User Account. The decision to do business with Us and Veridian electronically is yours. This document informs You of Your rights concerning Disclosures.
Electronic Communications. Any Disclosures will be provided to You electronically through Dwolla.com either on Our Site or via electronic mail to the verified email address You provided. If You require paper copies of such Disclosures, You may write to Us at the mailing address provided below and a paper copy will be sent to you at a cost of up to $5.00.

Scope of Consent. Your consent to receive Disclosures and transact business electronically, and Our agreement to do so, applies to any transactions to which such Disclosures relate, whether between you and Dwolla or between you and Veridian.

Consenting to Do Business Electronically. Before You decide to do business electronically with Dwolla or Veridian, you should consider whether you have the required hardware and software capabilities described below.

Hardware and Software Requirements. In order to access and retain Disclosures electronically, you must satisfy the following computer hardware and software requirements: access to the Internet; an email account and related software capable of receiving email through the Internet; a web browser which is SSL-compliant and supports secure sessions, such as Internet Explorer 5.0 or above and Netscape Navigator 6.0 or above, or the equivalent software; and hardware capable of running this software.

Withdrawing Consent. You may withdraw Your consent to receive Disclosures electronically by contacting Us at the address below. However, once You have withdrawn your consent, You may not continue to use the Dwolla System, and may be required to close your User Account.

How to Contact Us regarding Electronic Disclosures. You can contact us via email at compliance@dwolla.com or by calling (515) 280-1000.

You agree to keep Us informed of any change in Your email or home mailing address so that You can continue to receive all Disclosures in a timely fashion. If your registered email address changes, you must notify us of the change by sending an email to compliance@dwolla.com or calling (515) 280-1000. You also agree to update Your residence address and telephone number on the Site if they change.

You agree to print a copy of this Agreement for your records and You agree and acknowledge that you can access, receive and retain all Disclosures electronically sent via email or posted on the Site.
Arbitration
You and We ("The Parties") agree that upon the election of either of You or Us, any past, present, or future dispute relating in any way to Your User Account, or any other past, present, or future relationship or transaction between You and Us, will be resolved by binding arbitration as discussed below, and not through litigation in any court. (Such disputes are called "Claims" for purposes of this agreement.) This arbitration agreement is entered into pursuant to the Federal Arbitration Act, 9 U.S.C. ¤¤ 1-16 ("FAA"). The arbitration shall be conducted by a single neutral arbitrator acting under the administration of United States Arbitration and Mediation, MidWest, Inc., and in accordance with the then-applicable United States Arbitration and Mediation Rules of Arbitration. Unless You and We agree otherwise, or unless the arbitration administrator's rules or law require otherwise, the arbitration shall be held in Minneapolis, MN.

The arbitrator will decide the Claim in accordance with all applicable law, including recognized principles of equity and statutes of limitations, and will honor all privileges recognized by law. The arbitrator will have the authority to award to a Party any damages or relief provided for under applicable law. The arbitrator's decision shall be final and legally binding, and may be enforced by any court having jurisdiction.

No class actions or similar process, and no joinder or consolidation of any Claim with a Claim of any other person or entity, shall be allowable in arbitration, without the written consent of both You and Us. The arbitrator shall have no authority to entertain any Claim on behalf of a class, group, person, or entity who is not a named party to the arbitration, nor shall any arbitrator have authority to make any award for the benefit of, or against, any class, group, person, or entity who is not a named party to the arbitration. In the event that there is a dispute about whether limiting arbitration to non-class proceedings, or to the named parties, is enforceable under applicable law, then that question shall be resolved by a court rather than by an arbitrator; and to the extent it is determined that resolution of a Claim must proceed on a class basis, it shall so proceed in a court of competent jurisdiction rather than in arbitration. If You elect to proceed with respect any Claim by an individual action in a small claims court, or its equivalent, instead of arbitration, we will not object,

If the arbitrator or arbitration administrator would impose filing fees or other administrative costs on You, We will reimburse You, upon request, to the extent such fees or costs would exceed those that You would otherwise have to pay if You were proceeding instead in a court. We will also pay additional fees or costs if required to do so by the arbitration administrator's rules or applicable law.Apart from the foregoing, each Party will be responsible for any other fees or costs, such as attorney fees that the Party may incur. If You consider that you are unable to afford any fees or costs that would be Yours to pay, You may request that We pay or reimburse them, and We will consider Your request in good faith.

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1587  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [VIDEO] Calvin Ayre full video interview from Macau on: December 23, 2012, 01:41:11 AM
You guys do a lot to promote.  

Could you all please review this before you give interviews.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Public_relations
1588  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Liberty Payout ($1000) on: December 22, 2012, 11:50:24 PM
Now that you have his info it's pretty easy to file a small claim in PA.  Then when he loses if he does not pay they will attach his wages and taxes refunds.
1589  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Liberty Payout ($1000) on: December 22, 2012, 11:42:39 PM
Osa,

Time to pay up.
1590  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Liberty Payout ($1000) on: December 22, 2012, 07:44:37 PM
Sorry Liberty Payout

You are not to be trusted.

It is also pretty clear from you OTC ratings that no one else trust you either.

id    rater nick    rater total rating    rated nick    created at
(UTC)    rating    notes
18848    fbastage    27    LRP    2012-12-19 23:57:03    -10    scammer. scammed Seisatsu and bottles, more accusations on bitcointalk (Liberty Payout) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=131107.0
18849    aethero    482    LRP    2012-12-19 23:58:12    -10    Sent me the currupted and most likely hostile wallet.dat file
18934    RBecker    1    LRP    2012-12-22 15:40:56    -10    Scammer - Not to be trusted
18935    meti    1    LRP    2012-12-22 15:45:54    -10    Scammer - Not to be trusted
18933    bcb    180    LRP    2012-12-22 15:40:06    -5    Hightly Unreliable - Not to be trusted
18812    BeholdGlow    1    LRP    2012-12-19 09:21:46    -1    likely scammer
17838    Azelphur    205    LRP    2012-11-23 18:34:59    1    Bought BTC from me via Xoom.
13010    ataranlen    21    LRP    2012-07-24 19:50:56    2    High value ($2000+) transaction. Took 5 days to deliver gift cards. Escrow recommended
16706    beeteecee    12    LRP    2012-10-30 19:08:12    4    good buyer, returned some unexpected expense from my side, very honest
1591  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Liberty Payout ($1000) on: December 22, 2012, 03:37:18 PM
seisatsu,

Did you receive your funds?
1592  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Liberty Payout ($1000) on: December 22, 2012, 03:30:20 PM
paroxsitic

Don't delete the post.  Just note which issues have been resolved.  LRP (Liberty Payout) actions should be noted.
1593  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: BitCoiner2012 on: December 22, 2012, 02:46:33 AM
watching...
1594  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Find Trendon Shavers in person thread... [BTCST, BTS&T, pirateat40] on: December 21, 2012, 04:07:00 AM
I find it unlikely to be believed if the person both:

1) met you on IRC, and
2) was smart enough to mask their IP.

Otherwise, I'm not sure. It paints a picture I think a lot of people both do and don't want to hear. Can you verify she lives in Texas or do any of the names from the story check out?

It was a skype chat. 

The apartment complex exists
The banks exists
The brother exists (thought it was pointed out that she spelled his name wrong)
The girl and the sister are anonymous.
The other names were only first names.  I'd not heard them else where in association with Trendon.

She mentioned one location that was mentioned in another skype chat with someone else and here on the board.
1595  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Find Trendon Shavers in person thread... [BTCST, BTS&T, pirateat40] on: December 21, 2012, 02:57:25 AM
Can anyone make anything out of this.  I can't tell if this person was legit or I was being trolled.

[10/25/2012 8:46:01 AM] me: what's up
[10/25/2012 8:46:07 AM] INFO: Hi
[10/25/2012 8:46:19 AM] INFO: Thank you for getting in touch
[10/25/2012 8:46:21 AM] me: NP
[10/25/2012 8:46:27 AM] INFO: Or letting me get in touch with you, more to the point
[10/25/2012 8:46:35 AM] INFO: I know Trendon personally
[10/25/2012 8:46:41 AM] INFO: You might say I know him very well
[10/25/2012 8:46:48 AM] me: yuu male or female
[10/25/2012 8:46:53 AM] INFO: Female
[10/25/2012 8:46:57 AM] me: uho oh
[10/25/2012 8:47:04 AM] INFO: ?
[10/25/2012 8:47:12 AM] me: sounds like trouble
[10/25/2012 8:48:02 AM] INFO: Well
[10/25/2012 8:48:05 AM] INFO: I'm about to cause some trouble for him
[10/25/2012 8:48:17 AM] me: wadda you got
[10/25/2012 8:48:21 AM] INFO: I was his girlfriend
[10/25/2012 8:48:29 AM] INFO: Up until very recently
[10/25/2012 8:48:45 AM] INFO: And he was pretty pleased about what he was doing to you guys
[10/25/2012 8:48:50 AM] INFO: Boasted about it in fact
[10/25/2012 8:49:00 AM] INFO: Now I don't know what you guys know
[10/25/2012 8:49:20 AM] INFO: But feel free to ask me questions and I will try to answer them as best I can
[10/25/2012 8:49:48 AM] INFO: One thing I don't know is where he is living these days
[10/25/2012 8:50:04 AM] INFO: Although I have suspicions
[10/25/2012 8:50:10 AM] INFO: Anything else I can probably help you with
[10/25/2012 8:50:32 AM] me: so feel free to revel as little or as much as you want
[10/25/2012 8:50:42 AM] me: we just want info to help us get to Trendon
[10/25/2012 8:50:49 AM] INFO: I'll reveal all! I hate the bastard
[10/25/2012 8:50:56 AM] INFO: All that I can anyway
[10/25/2012 8:50:58 AM] me: Join the club
[10/25/2012 8:51:16 AM] INFO: Well, one thing I know, is that he has a lot of friends in xxxxx
[10/25/2012 8:51:25 AM] me: Why's that?
[10/25/2012 8:51:35 AM] INFO: He spent some time there years back
[10/25/2012 8:51:43 AM] INFO: and he used to go back fairly regularly, although not for a few years
[10/25/2012 8:51:45 AM] INFO: as far as I know
[10/25/2012 8:51:53 AM] INFO: But I suspect he might be there now
[10/25/2012 8:52:02 AM] me: so he is not in texas
[10/25/2012 8:52:04 AM] me: ?
[10/25/2012 8:52:18 AM] INFO: Well I don't know where he is, he's not at any address that I ever had for him
[10/25/2012 8:52:32 AM] INFO: He was renting an apartment for a while close to me
[10/25/2012 8:52:40 AM] me: who broke up with who?
[10/25/2012 8:52:57 AM] INFO: He broke up with me
[10/25/2012 8:53:02 AM] INFO: He was cheating on someone else with me
[10/25/2012 8:53:15 AM] me: sorry to hear that.
[10/25/2012 8:53:45 AM] INFO: He was real good with computers and math
[10/25/2012 8:53:53 AM] me: obviously
[10/25/2012 8:54:18 AM] INFO: But yeah, he was renting an apartment in Dallas, a real nice one
[10/25/2012 8:54:22 AM] INFO: and that is where I used to see him
[10/25/2012 8:54:30 AM] me: how did you meet him
[10/25/2012 8:54:37 AM] INFO: Met him through his brother xxxx
[10/25/2012 8:54:54 AM] me: and who was the woman he was cheating with
[10/25/2012 8:54:57 AM] me: do you have a name
[10/25/2012 8:55:13 AM] INFO: The thing is
[10/25/2012 8:55:17 AM] INFO: and what I am only starting to realise now
[10/25/2012 8:55:19 AM] INFO: is that he is abusive and he used me
[10/25/2012 8:55:30 AM] INFO: He used to keep me separate from everything
[10/25/2012 8:55:37 AM] INFO: I know xxxxx, and a ton of xxxx's friends
[10/25/2012 8:55:42 AM] INFO: But I don't know a single one of Trendon's friends
[10/25/2012 8:55:47 AM] INFO: He kept me seperate from all of that
[10/25/2012 8:55:54 AM] me: how long did you date
[10/25/2012 8:56:12 AM] INFO: Nearly a year. I mean, you call it "dating", and I say I was his "girlfriend"
[10/25/2012 8:56:15 AM] INFO: But it was a bit more sordid than that
[10/25/2012 8:56:21 AM] INFO: We just fucked and did cocaine in his apartment
[10/25/2012 8:56:42 AM] INFO: This big apartment, real nice view, and only two rooms were furnished
[10/25/2012 8:57:07 AM] INFO: Bedroom and the living room, and he didn't have a thing in the kitchen, cept drinks in the fridge
[10/25/2012 8:57:23 AM] INFO: I mean not a thing, we used to have dinner and eat with plastic forks
[10/25/2012 8:57:28 AM] INFO: Take out food
[10/25/2012 8:57:39 AM] me: do you have photos
[10/25/2012 8:57:51 AM] INFO: No, sorry
[10/25/2012 8:57:54 AM] me: np
[10/25/2012 8:58:03 AM] me: how old are you?
[10/25/2012 8:58:04 AM] INFO: I'm xxxxxx
[10/25/2012 8:58:28 AM] me: and do you have any names of Trendon firends or associates
[10/25/2012 8:58:31 AM] me: addresses
[10/25/2012 8:58:33 AM] me: numbers
[10/25/2012 8:59:11 AM] INFO: No addresses or numbers, like I say I knew xxxxx but he kept me pretty seperate,
I met his friends a couple of times of course.
He was really close to this guy xxxx and said they did business together, I met him maybe 6-7 times
[10/25/2012 8:59:22 AM] INFO: He'd just be leaving the apartment as I showed up or the other way around
[10/25/2012 8:59:24 AM] INFO: We didn't hang out or anything
[10/25/2012 8:59:31 AM] me: las name for xxxxx?
[10/25/2012 8:59:33 AM] me: last
[10/25/2012 8:59:35 AM] INFO: Sorry I don't have it
[10/25/2012 8:59:38 AM] me: np
[10/25/2012 8:59:45 AM] me: this is all very helpful
[10/25/2012 9:00:11 AM] INFO: I'm glad, I'm sorry I'm not giving you much of substance, but I was just his god damn piece of ass
[10/25/2012 9:00:15 AM] INFO: That's what I'm realizing now
[10/25/2012 9:00:26 AM] INFO: So he kept me seperate from it all, but I got to see glimpses
[10/25/2012 9:00:41 AM] INFO: He told me about the Bitcoin thing though, of course I asked where he got all his money
[10/25/2012 9:00:47 AM] INFO: Because he had a lot
[10/25/2012 9:00:51 AM] INFO: and cocaine that came in the mail
[10/25/2012 9:00:59 AM] INFO: I was real surprised by that but then he told me all about Silk Road
[10/25/2012 9:01:21 AM] INFO: I couldn't believe that wasn't a scam, and he was like "No, it's me who runs the scam"
[10/25/2012 9:01:39 AM] me: did he sell drugs also or just buy
[10/25/2012 9:01:53 AM] INFO: Just buy. It started off a little but then he was buzzed every time I saw him
[10/25/2012 9:02:09 AM] INFO: Sometimes he'd stop for a month and be like "Ok no more"
[10/25/2012 9:02:14 AM] INFO: but then he'd have a package next time I saw him
[10/25/2012 9:02:32 AM] me: do you know how he got his cash
[10/25/2012 9:02:49 AM] INFO: Sometimes he had cash that came in the mail
[10/25/2012 9:02:58 AM] INFO: $100 bills
[10/25/2012 9:03:14 AM] INFO: He tried to hide that from me but then when he was drunk and high I saw him open the envelopes
[10/25/2012 9:03:24 AM] INFO: Also I saw his safe deposit box
[10/25/2012 9:03:30 AM] me: where was htat
[10/25/2012 9:03:31 AM] me: that
[10/25/2012 9:03:41 AM] INFO: The xxxxx bank
[10/25/2012 9:03:46 AM] me: address?
[10/25/2012 9:03:57 AM] INFO: Dunno
[10/25/2012 9:03:59 AM] INFO: Could maybe find out on google
[10/25/2012 9:04:14 AM] me: you went to the bank with him?
[10/25/2012 9:04:24 AM] INFO: Yeah he was trying to act the big man and he wanted to show off to me one day
[10/25/2012 9:04:32 AM] INFO: Because I was like
[10/25/2012 9:04:42 AM] INFO: "You ain't a millionaire Trendon!" teasing him
[10/25/2012 9:05:03 AM] me: what else was in the bank?
[10/25/2012 9:05:10 AM] me: box
[10/25/2012 9:05:28 AM] INFO: Cash, gold bullion, platinum, palladium
[10/25/2012 9:05:57 AM] INFO: Not lots of gold, just those little ounce bars
[10/25/2012 9:06:01 AM] INFO: Not like the big fort knox ones
[10/25/2012 9:06:24 AM] INFO: But he had a few of those, and a few platinum, and he told me what palladium was, I'd never heard of it
[10/25/2012 9:06:25 AM] INFO: But he was like "Better than platinum"
[10/25/2012 9:06:33 AM] INFO: xxxxxxxxx
[10/25/2012 9:06:35 AM] INFO: Is the address of the bank we went to
[10/25/2012 9:07:20 AM] INFO: This was a while ago
[10/25/2012 9:07:24 AM] me: how long ago
[10/25/2012 9:07:31 AM] INFO: It was early in the summer
[10/25/2012 9:07:38 AM] INFO: I'd say early june
[10/25/2012 9:07:46 AM] INFO: I don't have an exact date sorry
[10/25/2012 9:07:54 AM] me: you can't easliy transport that stuff across borders
[10/25/2012 9:08:00 AM] me: do you think he moved it?
[10/25/2012 9:08:25 AM] INFO: I don't know, but I would be surprised if he is still in the area. I've been looking pretty hard for him
[10/25/2012 9:08:44 AM] INFO: I told you earlier that he broke up with me, well he did, but he didn't like, sit me down to dinner and do it
[10/25/2012 9:08:46 AM] INFO: He just disappeared
[10/25/2012 9:08:59 AM] INFO: First I was like "Shit maybe he's hurt"
[10/25/2012 9:09:11 AM] INFO: and then I was like "Oh you son of a bitch!"
[10/25/2012 9:09:20 AM] me: when was this
[10/25/2012 9:09:30 AM] INFO: Roughly a month ago
[10/25/2012 9:09:44 AM] me: lots of people looking for him
[10/25/2012 9:09:55 AM] INFO: I bet. Has anyone seen him?
[10/25/2012 9:10:00 AM] me: how big was the safe deposit box
[10/25/2012 9:10:04 AM] me: I don't know
[10/25/2012 9:10:05 AM] INFO: Not big
[10/25/2012 9:10:40 AM] INFO: I dunno how much cash was in there but he told me it was half a million
[10/25/2012 9:10:56 AM] INFO: and they were all hundreds, he ruffled his thumb through them like a deck of cards so I could see
[10/25/2012 9:11:16 AM] me: what was the address of the apt in dallas
[10/25/2012 9:11:26 AM] INFO: Hang on let me get my diary
[10/25/2012 9:11:44 AM] INFO: It was on xxxxxxx street
[10/25/2012 9:11:56 AM] INFO: But I need to find the exact number, I'd just call him and he'd buzz me up
[10/25/2012 9:12:49 AM] INFO: xxxxx
[10/25/2012 9:12:58 AM] me: appartment number?
[10/25/2012 9:13:01 AM] INFO: And his apartment was xxx
[10/25/2012 9:13:07 AM] me: very nice
[10/25/2012 9:13:17 AM] me: why are you looking so hard for him
[10/25/2012 9:13:22 AM] INFO: I WAS looking hard
[10/25/2012 9:13:27 AM] INFO: I'm not anymore
[10/25/2012 9:13:45 AM] INFO: I thought he loved me
[10/25/2012 9:13:49 AM] INFO: But not anymore
[10/25/2012 9:14:01 AM] INFO: My sister said I should do this
[10/25/2012 9:14:18 AM] me: you do know what he did to everyone else?
[10/25/2012 9:14:31 AM] INFO: Yeah I have been reading the forums
[10/25/2012 9:14:34 AM] INFO: And he told me bits of it
[10/25/2012 9:14:38 AM] INFO: Just boasting
[10/25/2012 9:14:44 AM] INFO: He said he'd taken millions
[10/25/2012 9:15:02 AM] INFO: and I see on the forums that it was $5m
[10/25/2012 9:15:08 AM] INFO: Which blew my mind
[10/25/2012 9:15:18 AM] INFO: He had a lot of money for sure
[10/25/2012 9:15:21 AM] INFO: I could tell that much
[10/25/2012 9:15:36 AM] INFO: But $5m is crazy
[10/25/2012 9:15:48 AM] me: what would you like to see happen
[10/25/2012 9:15:56 AM] INFO: I dunno
[10/25/2012 9:16:01 AM] INFO: What will happen?
[10/25/2012 9:16:20 AM] me: everyone just want's there money back, but no one know if it even still exists
[10/25/2012 9:16:43 AM] INFO: Well, not gonna lie, he spent a LOT of money in the time I knew him, he threw it around big time
[10/25/2012 9:16:56 AM] INFO: He lived like a rapper or something
[10/25/2012 9:17:21 AM] INFO: He didn't spend $5m though
[10/25/2012 9:17:25 AM] INFO: At least not while I was around
[10/25/2012 9:17:33 AM] me: The 5M is not a real number
[10/25/2012 9:18:01 AM] me: he's a con man
[10/25/2012 9:18:23 AM] INFO: He conned me too
[10/25/2012 9:18:26 AM] INFO: But not out of money
[10/25/2012 9:18:28 AM] INFO: Out of love
[10/25/2012 9:19:17 AM] INFO: I know, I'm not worried about that, I realise I'm better off with out him now
[10/25/2012 9:19:54 AM] INFO: I know he was smart but, gambling your kids future on some guy like Trendon, it's just crazy.
 This is news to me about him taking people's life savings
[10/25/2012 9:20:04 AM] INFO: I thought was like, conning smaller amounts off a lot of people
[10/25/2012 9:20:14 AM] INFO: Not big amounts from a handful of people
[10/25/2012 9:20:29 AM] INFO: I guess people believe what they want to believe. I guess I was the same
[10/25/2012 9:20:46 AM] me: let me ask you a question
[10/25/2012 9:21:57 AM] me: would you be willing to talk to authorities if they become involved
[10/25/2012 9:22:35 AM] INFO: I gotta think about that. Trendon was a blowhard, he used to brag a lot,
and I don't know if everything he told me was true. I mean, you guys know better than anyone that he was a liar,
but if some of the stuff he said was true then I would be scared of that
[10/25/2012 9:22:45 AM] INFO: I mean he used to talk about gang connections etc.
[10/25/2012 9:23:02 AM] me: that was part of his con
[10/25/2012 9:23:02 AM] INFO: I'm not saying no
[10/25/2012 9:23:10 AM] INFO: But I do need to think about it, and ask other people's advice
[10/25/2012 9:23:16 AM] INFO: Is that ok?
[10/25/2012 9:24:32 AM] me: any info you can provide will be helpful
[10/25/2012 9:24:40 AM] INFO: Well I need to think about this, I mean you've told me stuff I didn't know too
[10/25/2012 9:25:18 AM] INFO: Honestly if I knew he was taking peoples life savings I wouldn't have been with him,
I mean I knew he was running an internet scam for sure, he was very open about that with me
[10/25/2012 9:25:30 AM] INFO: and showed me the money, both when he showed me the cash and his spending too
[10/25/2012 9:25:42 AM] INFO: But I didn't know how serious it was, like the effect on people
[10/25/2012 9:26:11 AM] INFO: Yeah I was dumb to not think about it more
[10/25/2012 9:26:14 AM] INFO: I hope I'm helping it
[10/25/2012 9:26:27 AM] me: absolutely
[10/25/2012 9:26:36 AM] me: do post on the boards
[10/25/2012 9:26:44 AM] me: you
[10/25/2012 9:26:48 AM] INFO: No
[10/25/2012 9:27:02 AM] INFO: Just read them in the last few weeks
[10/25/2012 9:27:13 AM] INFO: I didn't google him for a long time, not so smart huh?
[10/25/2012 9:27:17 AM] me: how did you find out about them
[10/25/2012 9:27:25 AM] INFO: Googling his name
[10/25/2012 9:27:46 AM] me: do you have any emails or numbers for him
[10/25/2012 9:28:09 AM] INFO: Yes I have a cell but it's not working
[10/25/2012 9:28:12 AM] INFO: Do you still want it?
[10/25/2012 9:28:14 AM] me: yes
[10/25/2012 9:28:18 AM] INFO: Ok gotta find it hold on
[10/25/2012 9:30:17 AM] INFO: xxx-xxxx-xxxx[redacted]
[10/25/2012 9:30:25 AM] me: thanks
[10/25/2012 9:30:36 AM] me: what name did he use when you went to the bank?
[10/25/2012 9:30:40 AM] me: his own or an alias
[10/25/2012 9:30:44 AM] INFO: His real name
[10/25/2012 9:30:53 AM] INFO: I mean Trendon Shavers was his real name for sure
[10/25/2012 9:30:54 AM] INFO: I know that much
[10/25/2012 9:31:06 AM] me: did it seem like they knew him at the bank
[10/25/2012 9:31:14 AM] INFO: Yes
[10/25/2012 9:31:28 AM] INFO: He told them I wanted to put something in the box
[10/25/2012 9:31:44 AM] INFO: that was why I went into the viewing room with him
[10/25/2012 9:31:49 AM] INFO: and they were just like "No problem"
[10/25/2012 9:32:00 AM] me: what about computers
[10/25/2012 9:32:04 AM] me: did he have one
[10/25/2012 9:32:07 AM] me: laptop
[10/25/2012 9:32:10 AM] me: desktop
[10/25/2012 9:32:13 AM] INFO: Yeah he had tons
[10/25/2012 9:32:26 AM] INFO: He had a big computer with 2 big monitors in the corner
[10/25/2012 9:32:31 AM] INFO: A dell laptop
[10/25/2012 9:32:34 AM] INFO: and a macbook air
[10/25/2012 9:32:45 AM] me: at the appartment?
[10/25/2012 9:32:47 AM] INFO: Yeah
[10/25/2012 9:33:10 AM] INFO: If I wanted to check my facebook or whatever
[10/25/2012 9:33:15 AM] INFO: He'd let me use the Macbook
[10/25/2012 9:33:18 AM] me: and you never saw anyone else there except xxxx
[10/25/2012 9:33:33 AM] INFO: No, he was just the guy I saw there the most
[10/25/2012 9:33:38 AM] INFO: There were another few
[10/25/2012 9:33:42 AM] INFO: But like, I knew even less about them
[10/25/2012 9:33:53 AM] INFO: There was a guy called xxxx and another guy I don't remember his name
[10/25/2012 9:33:59 AM] INFO: He was only there once, xxx like 3 times
[10/25/2012 9:34:08 AM] me: grest
[10/25/2012 9:34:10 AM] me: great
[10/25/2012 9:35:08 AM] INFO: xxxxxx was what he kept going on about. "One day I'll take you out there,

I have lots of friends" and he showed me the photos of him partying with his friends out there
[10/25/2012 9:35:15 AM] me: NP.  just a guess
[10/25/2012 9:35:21 AM] me: any names in xxxxxx
[10/25/2012 9:35:37 AM] INFO: Called xxxxx and xxx
[10/25/2012 9:35:47 AM] INFO: and he knew a xxxxx
[10/25/2012 9:35:51 AM] INFO: I don't know her name
[10/25/2012 9:36:00 AM] INFO: But there were tons more I don't remember the name of
[10/25/2012 9:36:09 AM] INFO: I just remember the couple because they were in a lot of photos
[10/25/2012 9:36:30 AM] INFO: They were an American couple btw
[10/25/2012 9:36:58 AM] me: well any time you remember anything, names address, emails number anything you write it down and send it to me
[10/25/2012 9:37:06 AM] INFO: Ok I'll try
[10/25/2012 9:37:08 AM] me: any litttle tidbit can be helpful
[10/25/2012 9:37:42 AM] INFO: I hope it works
[10/25/2012 9:38:07 AM] me: what about his brother
[10/25/2012 9:38:13 AM] me: are you still in touch with him
[10/25/2012 9:38:49 AM] INFO: No his cell stopped working a while ago but I was too wrapped up in Trendon to even really care that much,
I mentioned him to Trendon and was like "Oh your brother's cell isn't working"
[10/25/2012 9:38:56 AM] INFO: and he was like "Yeah he changed his number"
[10/25/2012 9:39:07 AM] INFO: and that was it, I didn't want to be like "Oh can I get the new one?"
[10/25/2012 9:39:12 AM] INFO: Because Trendon would go into jealous rages
[10/25/2012 9:39:18 AM] INFO: Even though he had another woman!
[10/25/2012 9:39:21 AM] me: did you date his brother
[10/25/2012 9:39:28 AM] INFO: No, I just knew him through other friends
[10/25/2012 9:39:42 AM] INFO: Some guys I went to high school with knew him
[10/25/2012 9:39:50 AM] INFO: I'll talk to them if you want?
[10/25/2012 9:40:02 AM] INFO: See if they still hang out with him
[10/25/2012 9:40:13 AM] me: that would be great
[10/25/2012 9:40:38 AM] me: just see if you can get any info as to where he is
[10/25/2012 9:40:45 AM] me: and hwo to get in touch with him
[10/25/2012 9:45:05 AM] me: what was the name of the apt buidlgin in dallas
[10/25/2012 9:45:10 AM] me: building
[10/25/2012 9:45:11 AM] INFO: xxxxx
[10/25/2012 9:45:31 AM] me: what was the last date you saw trendon
[10/25/2012 9:45:42 AM] INFO: It was roughly 5 weeks ago
[10/25/2012 9:45:51 AM] INFO: We had sex and did cocaine in his apartment, same as always
[10/25/2012 9:46:09 AM] INFO: He was totally cool, I had no idea he'd just disappear
[10/25/2012 9:46:20 AM] INFO: He def. didn't seem like a man on the run
[10/25/2012 9:46:21 AM] INFO: He was relaxed
[10/25/2012 9:46:27 AM] INFO: and happy
[10/25/2012 9:47:15 AM] INFO: Yeah I'd be so terrifed if everyone wanted me and I had millions of stolen dollars!
[10/25/2012 9:47:23 AM] INFO: Who lost the most money?
[10/25/2012 9:47:43 AM] me: I'm still trying to figure that out
[10/25/2012 9:49:49 AM] me: Trendon had them all believing he was the Magic Man
[10/25/2012 9:50:13 AM] INFO: Jesus! I don't even know how! I don't know that much about Bitcoins,
I know enough from what he told me and what I read, but it seems to me that it would be risky to do that and just buy Bitcoins and hold them,
let alone send them to someone else too
[10/25/2012 9:50:27 AM] me: go fiture
[10/25/2012 9:50:29 AM] me: figure
[10/25/2012 9:57:43 AM] INFO: Ok, I am glad I could help. I gotta start getting ready for work now
[10/25/2012 9:58:01 AM] INFO: I will log into this account again for sure
[10/25/2012 9:58:11 AM] INFO: Any questions send to this address
[10/25/2012 9:58:17 AM] INFO: and I will be on the forums looking too, ok?
[10/25/2012 9:59:11 AM] INFO: I am just glad I could help
[10/25/2012 9:59:13 AM] INFO: Thank you
[10/25/2012 9:59:50 AM] INFO: I hope it works out
[10/25/2012 9:59:50 AM] me: You too
[10/25/2012 9:59:52 AM] me: talk soon
1596  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Liberty Payout ($1000) on: December 20, 2012, 07:02:04 PM
Someone on otc with the nick LRP has been scamming on otc.  IP links back to Liberty Reserve's Philly Location.
1597  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Interesting and slick scam on: December 20, 2012, 05:51:47 PM
The victims has already been told by the bank to NOT give their pin the ANYONE. If the victim still give away their PIN, it's their own fault.

kokojie

This is true but this shows two human traits that scammers rely upon (after GREED).

1. Escalation of authority.
    a.  I have a higher rep then you (this works beautifully with nick squaters)
    b.  Appealing to a higher power.
          1. My manager
          2. The Police
          3.  etc.

2. And our innate desire to trust our fellow man.
        1.  "I'm an authority so give me you PIN."
        2.  "you send first"


Problem it's gotten so bad  I'm certain I've hung up on and deleted emails from legitimate service providers.
 

1598  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Interesting and slick scam on: December 20, 2012, 03:51:22 PM
Nice post Mike.

Unfortunately, there will never be an end to the ways and the extremes to which scammers will go to part victims from their money.

We must always remain vigilant.  And these post help greatly.

Thanks
1599  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Is Mt. Gox down for anyone else?? on: December 19, 2012, 11:15:28 PM
working fine for me.  I have a couple api's that rely on gox and they crapped out to for a short while.
1600  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Is Mt. Gox down for anyone else?? on: December 19, 2012, 10:31:02 PM
strange.  I was on otc and it was down for some but not everyone.
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