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1781  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 19, 2014, 03:58:26 PM
Quote
And that, kids, is why US prisons are so disproportionately blacks/minorities.  Because wealthy Roll Eyes
And here I though you understood reading comprehension, since you just brought it up a minute ago.
In fact, I doubt Ross will do any time. White people with money rarely get convicted after asset forfeiture. That's partly why so many prisons are fill with poor black folks.  Sad
1782  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 19, 2014, 03:30:29 PM
Quote
So you've already convicted Mr. Dread?
Or is it just poor reading comprehension?
If course it was a typo. I was thinking about your post and Miz4r's post at the same time.

Whether or not Ross is DPR, and whether or not he's committed any crimes, the prosecutors have a very strong financial incentive to convict him.

Their only goal is to convict him(*) - not to determine the truth of his guilt.

Knowing this, Ross should know that minimizing the financial incentive they have to push for his conviction is in his best interests, so he'd want the coins they seized from him to be sold as cheaply as possible.

* Well-known features of the US "adversarial" court system
And of course it is the reverse onus for Ross to sue to get his money back after being acquitted. And then he may face civil court for wrongful citizenship by living in a country that treats everyone like criminals. Ok, the last one is hyperbole, but not far from reality.
1783  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Compared to Bitcoin, gold doesn't seem real... on: November 19, 2014, 02:38:24 PM
Compared to Bitcoin gold doesn't seem real... secure.
That's because it's not. The only way to make gold even approach bitcoin's level of security is if you're a billionaire who can afford to store his gold on a space station or on the moon. Other than that, you can't even play in the same league as bitcoin security-wise.



Thats pretty silly. Can you store your USB/HD/trezor/whatever on the moon? Then anyone can come to your house, find your wallet and torture you until you sing the password

Nothing is safe my friend. And lol at "you cant spent gold". As if you can spend bitcoin in a lot of places.
Bitcoin is torture proof. Sorry to disappoint.
1784  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: IS BITCOIN A FAC ? on: November 19, 2014, 11:03:49 AM
Computer chips are far too complex for people to use.  Roll Eyes
1785  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Compared to Bitcoin, gold doesn't seem real... on: November 19, 2014, 10:28:38 AM
Gold can become irradiated and be destroyed or turned to liquid mercury.




The only way to "destroy" any element is basically turning it into another element altogether.You basically need to feed gold directly into a nuclear reaction to do this, not something easily done.While gold can be dissolved,it is not technically destroyed as the processes can be reversed/countered.Any lost gold isn't truly as it can be recovered .

Lost bitcoin on the other hand is effectively destroyed as it is impossible to recover it without knowing the private key, which is pretty much uncrackable.

They've been turning gold into mercury since the 1930's but whatever. If properly backed up, bitcoins can survive any type of direct attack because it can be in multiple places at once. The point was that it's easier to keep a thumb drive in your pocket than a ten inch steel vault.
1786  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: November 19, 2014, 05:31:31 AM
I really don't see what the big stink is about Side Chains. So they change the Bitcoin protocol a little, big deal. As long as it doesn't break the current technology and only changes the human incentives, then there is no problem. If the new incentives don't work, then they will be rejected. If the new incentives do work, then Bitcoin grows stronger. The change to the protocol may also inspire new possibilities. Whether you call it money or a trading platform is meaningless because they are both sociological terms. Sociological variables change with the weather. You create tools that function and let the humans decide how to use them.

Examples:
    1. An anonymous side chain is developed. Suddenly millions of people are kidnapped. You stop using the Side Chain or your wife will leave you or you learn empathy.
    2. A Side Chain creates and markets MeowMeowBeenz that uses merge mining and saps hashes from Bitcoin. The next day WoofWoofBeenz replaces it because marketing. Bitcoin stays golden because it needs no marketing.
    3. A Side Chain becomes so popular that most bitcoins get locked into it in 140 years. A single satoshi is still enough to run the rest of the global economy after moving the decimal point. There will still never be one global money because we are not like the others.
    4. Bitcoin breaks and the Side Chains can not be saved by the patch. That's the sociologists problem for approving the Side Chains.
What am I missing?

you're missing the other half of this argument.

that being, the ppl proposing the spvp happen to compose 40% of core dev + 3 of the top committers, all of whom have gotten together and raised $21M in cash to form a for-profit company called Blockstream.  these ppl have a strong incentive to make money, not only for themselves but for their investors.  to do this, they need to construct and sell as many of these speculative SC's that offer all manner of speculative assets, none of which are likely to be related to sound money.  in fact, they discourage sound money by encouraging speculation. crucial to their success is inserting a spvp into the source code specifically to facilitate their business model.  now, when you try to explain what Bitcoin is, you can no longer say that Bitcoin is a form of digital cash.  you'll have to say it's a trading platform that offers stocks, bonds, insurance, contracts, and oh currency.  kinda like WoW.  but maybe not quite as good. Blockstream will want to see these SC's become successful as a happy customer is a happy payor and thus becomes a profit center which can refer more and more clients to build more SC's.  this is their job.  they will make $millions/billions.
Sorry, I don't see a problem as long as the Bitcoin protocol still works. If they eventually abandon Bitcoin for their own altcoin, then competition may overtake them. Maybe they will succeed, but crying won't stop them. If they are smart enough to be innovative, then they will be smart enough to not shoot themselves in the foot by trying to reinvent the wheel. All the stuff about using Bitcoin for trading is a good thing. Rich people usually listen to smart people. Proof of Work will survive on its own merit.

no one's crying.  it's about having enough self awareness as a community to understand that letting a bunch of insiders who control a disproportionate amount of access to the source code shouldn't be proposing a source code change that specifically is designed to benefit themselves and their for profit company they have been found to set up last February.  no wonder there hasn't been any progress on the Bitcoin code.  how do you think all those other companies or altcoins feel that have spent millions in money and time designing processes to compete head to head with Bitcoin w/o the insider advantage of Blockstream?  how do you think the outside financial world will look at this?  the Blockstream ppl don't even have the sense of self awareness that it might be a fair thing for them to step down given what they're doing.  i for one, think they have the possibility to abuse this retained position to block other promising innovations that come along in the future that might obsolete SC's.  if they really believe in their product  they should have no problem stepping down.  or if they want to stick around, reorg as a non profit.  i think it's the right thing to do.  and then we as a community don't have to worry about this ethical conflict.

Bitcoin has evolved to that of a public good.  if we want ppls of all nations and social strata to buy in we cannot afford to let Bitcoin appear to have any improprieties or be subject to any vested interests like Blockstream.  we don't need or want a Redhat for Bitcoin as Money.
This is war. All is fair, mate. Pick your side and call to arms.
1787  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: November 19, 2014, 04:56:20 AM
I really don't see what the big stink is about Side Chains. So they change the Bitcoin protocol a little, big deal. As long as it doesn't break the current technology and only changes the human incentives, then there is no problem. If the new incentives don't work, then they will be rejected. If the new incentives do work, then Bitcoin grows stronger. The change to the protocol may also inspire new possibilities. Whether you call it money or a trading platform is meaningless because they are both sociological terms. Sociological variables change with the weather. You create tools that function and let the humans decide how to use them.

Examples:
    1. An anonymous side chain is developed. Suddenly millions of people are kidnapped. You stop using the Side Chain or your wife will leave you or you learn empathy.
    2. A Side Chain creates and markets MeowMeowBeenz that uses merge mining and saps hashes from Bitcoin. The next day WoofWoofBeenz replaces it because marketing. Bitcoin stays golden because it needs no marketing.
    3. A Side Chain becomes so popular that most bitcoins get locked into it in 140 years. A single satoshi is still enough to run the rest of the global economy after moving the decimal point. There will still never be one global money because we are not like the others.
    4. Bitcoin breaks and the Side Chains can not be saved by the patch. That's the sociologists problem for approving the Side Chains.
What am I missing?

you're missing the other half of this argument.

that being, the ppl proposing the spvp happen to compose 40% of core dev + 3 of the top committers, all of whom have gotten together and raised $21M in cash to form a for-profit company called Blockstream.  these ppl have a strong incentive to make money, not only for themselves but for their investors.  to do this, they need to construct and sell as many of these speculative SC's that offer all manner of speculative assets, none of which are likely to be related to sound money.  in fact, they discourage sound money by encouraging speculation. crucial to their success is inserting a spvp into the source code specifically to facilitate their business model.  now, when you try to explain what Bitcoin is, you can no longer say that Bitcoin is a form of digital cash.  you'll have to say it's a trading platform that offers stocks, bonds, insurance, contracts, and oh currency.  kinda like WoW.  but maybe not quite as good. Blockstream will want to see these SC's become successful as a happy customer is a happy payor and thus becomes a profit center which can refer more and more clients to build more SC's.  this is their job.  they will make $millions/billions.
Sorry, I don't see a problem as long as the Bitcoin protocol still works. If they eventually abandon Bitcoin for their own altcoin, then competition may overtake them. Maybe they will succeed, but crying won't stop them. If they are smart enough to be innovative, then they will be smart enough to not shoot themselves in the foot by trying to reinvent the wheel. All the stuff about using Bitcoin for trading is a good thing. Rich people usually listen to smart people. Proof of Work will survive on its own merit.
1788  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: November 19, 2014, 03:35:39 AM
I really don't see what the big stink is about Side Chains. So they change the Bitcoin protocol a little, big deal. As long as it doesn't break the current technology and only changes the human incentives, then there is no problem. If the new incentives don't work, then they will be rejected. If the new incentives do work, then Bitcoin grows stronger. The change to the protocol may also inspire new possibilities. Whether you call it money or a trading platform is meaningless because they are both sociological terms. Sociological variables change with the weather. You create tools that function and let the humans decide how to use them.

Examples:
    1. An anonymous side chain is developed. Suddenly millions of people are kidnapped. You stop using the Side Chain or your wife will leave you or you learn empathy.
    2. A Side Chain creates and markets MeowMeowBeenz that uses merge mining and saps hashes from Bitcoin. The next day WoofWoofBeenz replaces it because marketing. Bitcoin stays golden because it needs no marketing.
    3. A Side Chain becomes so popular that most bitcoins get locked into it in 140 years. A single satoshi is still enough to run the rest of the global economy after moving the decimal point. There will still never be one global money because we are not like the others.
    4. Bitcoin breaks and the Side Chains can not be saved by the patch. That's the sociologists problem for approving the Side Chains.
What am I missing?
1789  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Blockchain use for Scientific Peer Review Journals? on: November 19, 2014, 02:29:10 AM
The market, we show them how we run things and people decide where to put their efforts towards.
Effective designs spread better, resonating deeply with their Audience.
the more support you gain the more likely people will include your article permanently into one of the information blocks.

Creationists would love this, science by populist vote.
This.
Again, science is not a democracy. Voting is fine for a private magazine, but not an academic journal.
1790  Economy / Economics / Re: A Resource Based Economy on: November 19, 2014, 01:16:16 AM
But HOW do you keep an economy alive if more and more and more jobs keep getting replaced by technonolgy? Eventually even surgeries will be made on a machine like the one Prometheus. Maybe in 100 years, who knows, but it will eventually happen. Even if it's far, transitions have to start happening at some point.

Who needs jobs? What do we need "an economy" for?

That's the theory though. In practice, bullshit jobs will continue, and if/when we expand into space, that will create a lot of jobs too (even if a lot of things are automated, there will be need for proper planning, etc...).
Bullshit jobs exist because guns. With that mentality, we will not make it through the next 100 years let alone into space.
1791  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Blockchain use for Scientific Peer Review Journals? on: November 19, 2014, 01:00:18 AM
The blockchain is nothing more than a set of rules it doesn't have to be math.
I know there are people that call something like that a blockchain, but if the rule isn't math, then who gets to make the rules?
1792  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Blockchain use for Scientific Peer Review Journals? on: November 18, 2014, 11:04:07 PM
Bitcoin can be used for voting, but science isn't a democracy. Perhaps statistical studies can benefit from blockchain technology.
1793  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Compared to Bitcoin, gold doesn't seem real... on: November 18, 2014, 10:51:50 PM
Bitcoins can easily survive a nuclear blast if they are backed up. James Bond would never have met Pussy Galore if they had Bitcoin in 1964.

Umm, it requires internet. Gold can be physically traded (bitcoin paper wallets could but thats just fiat again..)
The Internet was designed by the US military and intelligence agencies as a means to communicate even in a nuclear war. Gold can become irradiated and be destroyed or turned to liquid mercury.
1794  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: November 18, 2014, 10:44:19 PM
Unlike most detractors in here, Adam Back and Austin Hill's track record speak for themselves.
You're definitely new here, or else you'd recognize that exact same argument has been run by each and every single long-con scammer and ponzi operator going back to Pirate@40 until the present day.

Are you getting paid to discredit Blockstream?

well, another way to look at them is that they both admittedly missed the Bitcoin train in the beginning and only came around in 2013.  how visionary is that?
That's a very good point, and they still haven't jumped into the fray. Perhaps some old cypherpunks just get tired of fighting the system. Bitcoin needs new blood and sharp minds to build useful tools. I would prefer to see some unity amongst the old vanguard to lead them.
1795  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 18, 2014, 02:36:15 PM
I suspect people are dumping their bitcoins to get money to bid on the DPR stash.  Roll Eyes
Wouldn't it be funny if that actually worked.  Cool
1796  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 18, 2014, 02:32:14 PM

Just thought I'd share because ninja.
1797  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: November 18, 2014, 12:37:56 PM
Drama. That's why we have 25,000 denominations of Christianity.
1798  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Compared to Bitcoin, gold doesn't seem real... on: November 18, 2014, 10:33:47 AM
Bitcoins can easily survive a nuclear blast if they are backed up. James Bond would never have met Pussy Galore if they had Bitcoin in 1964.
1799  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 18, 2014, 08:10:17 AM
Bitcointalk.org is too centralized. This deletion attack will damage its reputation as the center of troll free discourse on the topic of Bitcoin.
1800  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Compared to Bitcoin, gold doesn't seem real... on: November 18, 2014, 08:02:04 AM
Oh. And try carrying a few pounds of gold through an airport without a lot of questions. Bitcoins don't need to fly.
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