Let's be real guys. bitcoin will never ever exceed the cost of gold. Don't have high hopes. It will never be more than 600, and it will not stay at that price for long.
Will you also say that gold will never hit 1800 again? Nay Sir! Bitcoin shall rise again! |
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Preface:I presume most people understand what pegging means with regards to currencies. I use the term Destructive in lieu of Proof of Burn because it doesn't matter if the bitcoins are actually permanently burned or just spent. That is a legal and incentive issue and not a technical issue. I would personally prefer the burning method and will include those properties as well. Destructive Chains are not to be confused with Colored Coin type derivatives (i.e. Mastercoin, Counterparty, etc.) that use bitcoins for transactions. Premise: A Destructive Chain requires the Bitcoin Blockchain only to verify their origin. A Pegged Chain is reversible. Pegged vs Destructive Side Chain as Bitcoin Derivative Assets. Pegged ChainsPegged Chain Pros: 1. Organic adoption based on its success.
2. Has a (more or less) fixed 1:1 exchange with bitcoins less fees.
3. If the asset fails to be adopted, I can get some or all my bitcoins back.
4. If Bitcoin security is compromised, the entire Bitcoin Derivative Asset is not irrecoverably lost because the pegged bitcoins can be moved.
5. Resistant to pump and dump because it can instantly inflate and deflate through 1:1 arbitrage.
6. More functionality adds to the Bitcoin overall ecosystem because it's non-parasitic.
7. Is better money than Bitcoin (though poorer currency because of clones).
Pegged Chain Cons: 1. Less fees for Bitcoin miners unless merge mined.
2. Sucks development and interest from Bitcoin to replace Bitcoin with a superior (or inferior) cryptocurrency.*
3. Bitcoin becomes a reserve currency.
4. Trades some security risk for greater functionality.
5. Security costs are high with maintaining the Bitcoin peg bridge.
Destructive ChainDestructive Chain Pros: 1. Less bitcoins circulating means my bitcoins are worth more because the burn is a one time event that can be accounted for.
2. More incentive for development because pre-mined assets can be sold.
3. Adds functionality to the overall Bitcoin ecosystem.
4. As a parasite, it requires the Bitcoin host to remain healthy or it will die. Bitcoin will be a safer store of value.
5. Can be a better currency than Bitcoin (though a poor money because it lacks the liquidity of pegging).
Destructive Chain Cons: 1. Failure of the asset is total loss.
2. Drain on Bitcoin Core development.
3. Easy to pump and dump because it's deflationary.
4. Scam coins are possible.
Conclusion: There are advantages and disadvantages to both Destructive and Pegged Chains. Both add to the Bitcoin Ecosystem. Pegged Chains can add floating destructive assets from transaction fees. Destructive Chains have greater potential for functionality improvements without threatening Bitcoin. Altcoin developers can choose which type of Bitcoin Derivative Asset would best serve their needs. They can also choose hybrid or layered. Developers can choose hybrid designs with advantages and disadvantage tradeoffs that fit their needs. They can also or instead add layers of pegged assets, though the security costs of pegging grow. * May be pro or con depending on point of view.
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Was there an actual technical question here?
Moderators? Can we keep at least this section free from the speculative FUD, games and other dross? Place is getting pretty noisy (crapped up).
I didn't realize this was in the Development forum. This is way off topic. |
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Central banks will only hold tangible asset such as gold, which has proven to be "money" for 1000 years.
Central banks used paper as their method of accounting for 1000 years. They switched to computers because it is way cheaper, more efficient, and more reliable. Just because something has been proven for 1000 years doesn't mean it can't be improved upon. Central banks will hold whatever they feel they have control over. If bitcoin mining and security is decentralized and secure enough, they will hold bitcoin just as well as they have held gold. Thats not it really. Bitcoin is not backed by anything, its the same complaint he has about dollars.
It's pretty annoying when people claim that bitcoin is not backed by anything, and then go on to defend gold, which also is not backed by anything. The brainwashing of pieces of paper backed by some bank or vault is pretty strong in our society, so when people see bitcoin, that's the first thing they assume it to be like, instead of being something that doesn't need backing. Like gold. Gold can be a standalone product without huge dependency on technology. Should real crisis hit, electricity and computer system will not be accessible as most people would assume it would. I've never seen a real crisis where people bring out their gold. There's usually a lot of lead moving around. |
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Name your baby Professor Bitcorn  |
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I've lost zero bitcoins. Every bitcoin is right where it should be.
If you would invest in USD, you would have BTC doubled. Not to invest is a loss. Not that an investing is profit. If you had invested in Emerge Energy Services LP (EMES) NYSE:EMES would have fiat doubled. Not to invest is a loss. Not that an investing is profit. |
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I do want to ask though, does this mean you're bearish on Bitcoin now?
I had to sell some, Gavin talking about a fork not an evolution, and this this is devastating IMO. Forks are the definition of evolution. Every species goes extinct. All of them. We are not the same species as our predecessors and our future progeny will not be the same species as us. Still, they trace a direct lineage. Forking the blockchain will allow a more adaptable Bitcoin that can survive the changing economic environment. Just because all the others who have tried failed, doesn't mean Gavin's version will fail. What will happen if nothing is done? Once again, cbeast demonstrates why he fails science class. Bitcoin is not a natural creation, although we may borrow terms like niche and ecosystem from the vocabulary of biology to discuss it. Bitcoin is defined by its social contract and the terms of that social contract produce its value, while the features of the software produce its utility. Scamchains are a change to that social contract, and undermine what has thus far made Bitcoin a runaway success. Even accepting your clumsy metaphor, some species change little in millions of years (sharks, horseshoe crabs, Coelacanths). And blue-green algae is doing just fine, 3.5 billion years after its ancestors built stromatolites. Bitcoin works very well and we shouldn't try to fix it until it breaks. The proper venue for experimental variations (mutations) of Bitcoin is in the altcoin space. I guess you don't know much about speciation. I guess you think a "social contract" is not influenced by biology. In fact, everything related to organism, even social contracts are evolutionary. Unless you think you are immortal in which case nobody can help you. edit: I guess I take this subject much more seriously than most people. I think the notion of money will lead to the death of our planet. |
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 Then for the next 100 years we will hear "Bitcoin is dead" by the typical FUDster. |
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They believe in a magic man that is firm and strong and always stands for principles. Then they also believe the principle of selfishness means you will vow to be non violent even if it's in your own selfish interest. I think libertarianism is a fetish.
I've been watching the Hong Kong protests, and those people are committed to libertarian ideals in a way that is profoundly needed and even heroic. It's very moving, and also WEIRD, to hear a thousand voices singing "Do You Hear The People Sing" from Les Miserables, in Cantonese! The personal risks and self-sacrifice they are undertaking for the sake of their libertarianism are just stunning. Do you know the difference between liberty and libertarianism? Ok, I know there are many loose interpretations, but when you say: Nothing is the right thing all the time, in every context. You've got to look around yourself and see the whole picture and decide what's right and wrong right where and when you are it seems you think they are synonymous. You can have liberty without being libertarian. Perhaps the term was simply tarnished by Ayn Rand followers. |
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Thanks. This might be the cure for the insomnia caused by the price crash. |
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Unless a boom happens in November, there will be a massive correction Either the price goes up or it goes down. Is that what you are predicting? Sounds like a pretty safe bet.  |
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What?
Are you telling me if Satoshi comes and dumps off exchange 1 million bitcoins would be bullish for the price because lot of people would be buying?
When you sell something in the other side there is a buyer... that's granted. But what matters is sellers to buyers ratio. If you have more sellers price go down...
That's pretty simple, dude...
That would be like the equivalent of the end of Mt Gox. It would remove the Sword of Damocles and confidence would boom. That one million bitcoins would be eaten like chow in a mess hall. But we are speaking about short term price. That would drive the price instantly to something ridiculously low for a long time. How can be that a bullish scenario in the short term? Quite the opposite. It's the worry about the bitcoins that are not being sold (hence the low volume) that is keeping price down. Sure the price will go way down, because exchanges still use the Mt Gox model. If bitcoins were only sold through brokers and ATMs, the market would not be nearly so volatile. |
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What?
Are you telling me if Satoshi comes and dumps off exchange 1 million bitcoins would be bullish for the price because lot of people would be buying?
When you sell something in the other side there is a buyer... that's granted. But what matters is sellers to buyers ratio. If you have more sellers price go down...
That's pretty simple, dude...
That would be like the equivalent of the end of Mt Gox. It would remove the Sword of Damocles and confidence would boom. That one million bitcoins would be eaten like chow in a mess hall. |
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I do want to ask though, does this mean you're bearish on Bitcoin now?
I had to sell some, Gavin talking about a fork not an evolution, and this this is devastating IMO. Forks are the definition of evolution. Every species goes extinct. All of them. We are not the same species as our predecessors and our future progeny will not be the same species as us. Still, they trace a direct lineage. Forking the blockchain will allow a more adaptable Bitcoin that can survive the changing economic environment. Just because all the others who have tried failed, doesn't mean Gavin's version will fail. What will happen if nothing is done? Apes losing their tail was a fork in the evolution of primates. No. That's not the point and also not true. |
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I do want to ask though, does this mean you're bearish on Bitcoin now?
I had to sell some, Gavin talking about a fork not an evolution, and this this is devastating IMO. Forks are the definition of evolution. Every species goes extinct. All of them. We are not the same species as our predecessors and our future progeny will not be the same species as us. Still, they trace a direct lineage. Forking the blockchain will allow a more adaptable Bitcoin that can survive the changing economic environment. Just because all the others who have tried failed, doesn't mean Gavin's version will fail. What will happen if nothing is done? |
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Bitcoin is a self contained financial system, meaning that its bitcoin are inextricably linked to its blockchain. they give each other mutual value.
What if all bitcoins were destroyed but one? Would it have less value? they only interact with the fiat system in terms of the price at the edges at exchanges or in p2p tx's.
You can think of SCs as exchanges because they are in fact different currencies. anything that breaks this linkage potentially kills Bitcoin.
Don't more exchanges actually increase liquidity? SC's break this linkage as it moves these units onto a different blockchain with a different security model and different properties.
How is that any different than selling them for fiat like is happening now? Bitcoin will have to earn confidence, and that will just take time. If a better altcoin comes along, then so be it, but SCs will be designed to trade risk for additional functionality. If they become altcoins, then they will suffer the same fate as their 1000 predecessors. |
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It is the Apache web server of money.
Be careful. Using analogies like that outside the forums will just get you stuffed in your locker with a wedgie. |
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NotLambchop
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Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
Today at 06:08:26 PM
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I wish people would stop quoting trolls. |
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 Bitcoin is MATH, not METH, Porkchop. |
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