Is it safe to order from them? I dont want another BFL. I am in the 300th place in line, So should I order?  And what will difficulty be by when they start shipping Just a minute I'll jump in a time machine and go to the future to get the answer to your questions. Lots of debate in the other 3 or 4 threads you should read them and then try to make a decision on risk/reward based on your on tolerance level, personal assessment and personal criteria. No one can answer your questions accurately, but what I am watching is yet another company with 0 product taking full payment pre orders (or an interest free loan IOW). Way to much like BFL for me to gamble on that's for sure. |
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This is puzzling.
They say in the newsletter they wouldn't be taking money before showing a working prototype... But then they cancel the "Mars" product, which is the only existing working prototype (and it's a FPGA, not an ASIC!!!!!), while they open payments for the Jupiters and Saturn (ASICs), for which a prototype is yet to be seen, and we have to pay in the next 7 days or we lose your spot in the queue? Plus, they make a lottery in order to get as many customers paying in the next 48 hours, starting from now?
I'm the only one reading some contradictions in all this?
It's called "bait and switch". I had high hopes for this company, so it's really a shame that they're pulling the same stunts as all the other ASIC manufacturers. FPGA miners have been available for months, so it's really not that impressive to demonstrate a working FPGA miner. Giving a company pre-order money in hopes of getting a working ASIC miner months later reminds me a lot of betting on a horse race. If you bet on the right horse, you can make a lot of money (Avalon or ASICMiner stock). If you bet on the wrong horse (BFL), you could be left with nothing.
I really hope a very large semiconductor company recognizes the potential of bitcoin mining in the near future and enters the market so we can put an end to all these shenanigans once and for all.+1000 This wild west cowboy pre-order horse shit is getting old FAST. Long term (at least in bitcoin terms) interest free loans (which is what I consider all this pre-order BS) are a stone cold gamble on the lenders (purchasers) part and a wet fucking dream come true for the developing company. So good luck to all the gamblers pre-ordering enjoy shouldering the majority of the risk for yet another start up ASIC manufacture. |
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Where did you see that "BFL needs the community to produce a mining board or they won't sell ... a single chip." ?
Welcome back, it looks like you have been away for a couple months how is the 20nm mining chips coming along. Sorry for the OT derail but I think new folks and people who forgot should be reminded. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=158044.0 |
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I'm watching closely  However, with about a 7month breakeven i hope we see these for 1-1.5BTC soon! The way I calculate it, it's a 6-7 month breakeven point at current diff and we all know what is very likely to happen to diff in the next 2-3 months. I wish I could see how these units make me money because I would love to buy a couple dozen. For me ASICMINER priced the unit too high. Good luck with the group buy guys, being a GTA born and bread boy myself I wish I could support you a little but doesn't really make sense to me at this point! |
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I find this situation fascinating from a psychological perspective.
If someone repeatedly lies to you, why would you suddenly think that lie #19, lie #23, or lie #58 might actually be true? What makes you think that this time they are telling the truth, as opposed to the previous 30 or 40 or 50 lies?
This company has proven that they can not be considered honest and trustworthy. At least to anyone who has done more than 30 minutes of research on the forums here.
Fascinating situation...
Broken analog watches tell the correct time twice a day. Both of these comments are comparing apples to oranges.. This situation is more like "When your meth addicted friends tells you on a monthly basis that he "is clean now" and "I'm never going to touch that stuff again". It may be true at the time... and it may be his/her intention. But after the 4th, 5th, 20th time they do it, you just nod your head and say "Good for you" all the while not really believing that this will be the reality. ..The people who did not order BFL, or cancelled their orders are the people who don't really have a relationship with that person, and say in a very blunt way "whatever, you'll fall off the wagon soon enough", and even at times would rather see them fail so they won't have to deal with seeing them later on. The people who do have orders with BFL are like the friends or family of that person. They don't really believe it will happen, or believe in the timing, but only hope that one day what they say comes true. I personally think the company doesn't really plan for the setbacks, and when given an expectation by a vendor (say 1-2 weeks), they tell their customer base "1 WEEK!". By now it is at the 7-8 month mark, but they are still going. The way I figure it is, if the company was a true scam, they would have taken the money already and moved on to a new scam. This is beyond the meaning of "long con". The only thing that will tell is time. I could see a possibility that they take too long, and only a handful of people getting these devices while they are still profitable. That would be my personal opinion of a "worst case scenario". At that point either they can get back several returns until they file bankruptcy, and at that point, everyone looses their money that still have not received their product. Best case scenario is within the next 2 weeks they get anywhere CLOSE to shipping out to their reported amount of 400 per day. I have this sneaking suspicion that the reality will probably somewhere in between. It could be a more advanced long con. Their CEO or whatever is a convicted con man, and spent time in prison for fraud. It's possible that he has learned from his mistakes, meaning he is now a "better" con artist. The "best" con men tend not to go to jail because they operate inside the law as much as possible. Here's an example... Let's say Sonny is drawing a huge salary and one day BFL announces that their venture has failed and that they are declaring bankruptcy. It's clear where the money went - right into Sonny's bank account. What did he do illegal? Will they be able to put him in jail?
[/b] Any online poker players will recognize this from the Full Tilt poker days... Basically the BoD of the company funnelled ~10 million a month in dividend payments to the owners (while the company was in the red!!!!!!), leaving the company upside down to the tune of a little over 300 million USD. |
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Erm, genuinely what proof does anyone have that they are specifically singling him out for abuse?
From: Butterfly Labs <office@butterflylabs.com>
Subject: Re: Orders to refund
Date: May 16, 2013 3:30:16 PM CDT
Hello Christian,
After reviewing your account, we have decided to end our business relationship with you. At this time, we are severing all business ties with you and will be refunding your money. This decision was based on a number of different factors and is final.
Sincerely,
Butterfly Labs, INCIOW, Thank you very much for the almost 5k interest free loan you provided us for the last xx months, now kindly fuck off and leave us alone!!!!!!! |
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I have read it along with a bunch of the other read me's but alot of it I dont understand.
Like what is a Thread Concurrency or a Lookup Gap?
I have a rig with 2 x 7950 mining LTC. I use GUIMiner scrypt (search for TacoTime in Alt section should be very easy to find) it is awesome and made my life much easier! The default settings for 7950(high usage) are great. I Also use Trixx Sapphire to OC them and I really like it (key for my cards was to have the core to mem clock ratio at .7. I am also using the latest amd drivers (13.4 iirc) I was running both cards at stock settings and getting around 500-550 khs. After a ton of tweaking to find the right setting for each card (for me the settings are slightly different to get max khs per card) I am able to get 635khs and 609 khs (open air rig temps sit steady in the very low 70's. Thanks so much. I searched for TacoTime. You are talking about the member TacoTime right? Which exact thread are you talking about with the defualt settings for the 7950? Sadly I am only getting about 525 KH/s out of each card. I am going to have to re think my placement of my rig. These cards are LOUD! Not GPU loud, like leaf blower loud. Here is the link for GUIMINER scrypt (settings are in GUIMiner and are pretty damn good from what i can tell). https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=150331.0Here is a good thread for mining specs. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=117221.msg1256502#msg1256502again all thanks to TacoTime, without these two threads i would have never got my little rig rmining LTC. |
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I have read it along with a bunch of the other read me's but alot of it I dont understand.
Like what is a Thread Concurrency or a Lookup Gap?
I have a rig with 2 x 7950 mining LTC. I use GUIMiner scrypt (search for TacoTime in Alt section should be very easy to find) it is awesome and made my life much easier! The default settings for 7950(high usage) are great. I Also use Trixx Sapphire to OC them and I really like it (key for my cards was to have the core to mem clock ratio at .7. I am also using the latest amd drivers (13.4 iirc) I was running both cards at stock settings and getting around 500-550 khs. After a ton of tweaking to find the right setting for each card (for me the settings are slightly different to get max khs per card) I am able to get 635khs and 609 khs (open air rig temps sit steady in the very low 70's. |
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0.06
Was hoping for something much closer to BTC.25 |
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If it haves the FarCry3: Blood Dragon I offer 0.185
Sorry it only says Bioshock and Crysis3. |
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Bump for new coupon available.
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From what we know, which is exactly nothing (unless I missed him respond to this question) I feel its more likely he was involved than not.
Why doesn't the man come in here and provide proof of your (and btw LukeJr's) convenient straw man. Seems it shouldn't be to difficult to prove that he sold the domain before Can-Electric SCAM was posted on his site..
Forum posters showed that the WHOIS information of the domain changed when the Can-Electric website went online. I remember thinking at the time "Tom must have sold the domain". I would be very interested in seeing the post. To be honest I was following the Can-Electric thread and I don't remember seeing this information posted but its possible I missed it. |
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2) Can-Electric. His involvement with that schema reeks of fishyness.
This is a very strong claim to make. You have to prove it. For what we know, Tom was never involved in Can-Electric. Most likely, people offered to buy one of Tom's domain, to run their own scam while leveraging the "image" of the domain name. In this situation, Tom would have had no idea what the buyers were going to use the domain for. From what we know, which is exactly nothing (unless I missed him respond to this question) I feel its more likely he was involved than not. Why doesn't the man come in here and provide proof of your (and btw LukeJr's) convenient straw man. Seems it shouldn't be to difficult to prove that he sold the domain before Can-Electric SCAM was posted on his site.. And for someone who is so concerned with paying people back and doing the right thing and clearing his scammer tag and a god fearing man to boot, that he would respond and put up some fucking proof. But nah he just chooses to completely avoid the question.... Yup that sure sounds like a fellow who had nothing to do with it eh? ? BTW go back and look at the very first post that Can-Electric put up on the site it reeks of Tom's writing style (grammar, spelling mistakes, bashing BFL, point out specifically that Tom was trying to do the right thing and no reason to doubt his intentions etc etc paraphrasing here btw). I think you can guess what conclusion I have made from this limited information and honestly even if Tom paid back every red cent of pre-order money he still deserves the SCAMMER tag. ANYONE doing any business on this forum should be pre-warned of the possible risk of doing anything with this man IMO. |
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I wonder if Josh the customer will receive his order before Frankie... LOL the sick irony in that shit.
Nice to see the classy spokesperson for BFL back in action, keep it up turbo! I wonder if pre-orders are slow this week so he needed to come back here to tap the well LOL.........
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Well, the power is out already, a friend of mine just received 4 jalapeņos yesterday.
Did your friend have his Unicorns and Leprachauns configure them properly, need to make sure they are hashing away properly you know.... Unicorns and Leprachauns are the only ones that can configure that little sucker to get over 9000 Gh/s... |
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sorry if its already been discussed. what are the legalities on gambling with bitcoins in america? If you mean gambling online yourself, it is generally not illegal to gamble with your own money, though conceivably you risk losing money if a site shuts down. I would note that most BTC gambling businesses that do any substantial volume, like SatoshiDice, have moved operations out of the country. A site that operates overseas and takes BTC deposits directly and cashes out only to BTC is not subject to the main tool federal prosecutors have at their disposal, the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act, which directly targets financial institutions. That's a big mallet, but with no banks to go after, this law is inapplicable to BTC. However, I wouldn't place much faith in the argument that BTC is immune to state laws criminalizing gambling, which generally define gambling for the purposes of enforcement as wagering for "anything of value." If you can sell it for real money, buy goods or services with it, and it actually has a measurable market value, that's going to count as gambling. It might not count as "illegal gambling," especially if the house is getting no cut, but the moment you start raking and making money, it's probably covered. So I'd say running a BTC gambling site in the physical United States is a pretty dicey proposition, though whether anything actually comes of it is dependent on whether some ambitious LEA actually feels like doing something about it. I'm not sure what monetary threshold would be big enough that anyone bothers, or whether they are even interested in BTC at the moment. The feds have shown little understanding of the concept so far. I think it is highly probable that before any widespread enforcement effort, the FBI or whatever other LEA wants to do something will start making public statements indicating their intent to do, and that people will have some time to exit the market, perhaps safely, but it could be that they start with a bang by busting one of the major operators. If you're planning on doing anything substantial, you should consider getting real legal advice, not just ask people on the Internet. Depending where you live, your local authorities may have a practice of doing little or nothing in this area, or they might be very aggressive. This is bang on 100% the best advice so far. I would also like to mention that one of the tools the government used against the online poker sites in the black Friday cases in the "the travel act" (IIRC). Online gaming in the USA is a cluster fuck ATM good luck doing something like this legally. Question for you, why are there no real large AMERICAN online gambling sites/companies... if it was possible someone would be doing it legally now, not sure how you think you could somehow figure it out? You are also involving your friends, do you all understand what you are doing? |
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Just wanted to post that I have payed for and received the keys from Flying Hellfish. He sent the keys immediately after I sent payment, and they worked perfectly.
Trusted seller.
Thanks Sothh, deal was quick and easy! received payment sent code. |
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BTC.23 is as high as I can go. (that's all the Bitcoins I have)
Ok I can live with that. Will send you a pm. |
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