A competent development team.
+1 A team that has been working since before Bitcoins became worth anything. They're dedicated and skilled. The better question is, what advantage does any other chain have over bitcoin? Even the most lauded "advantages" are highly contested, and often boil down to economic theory. None of the alts even come close to Bitcoin. |
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Great new feature, thank you Founder =)
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But what disturbs me is that regardless of the recent 'programs' to spread bitcoin in the last few months... it's still going down vs fiat. Hard. I didn't even get into the scene until lat August, and I've already seen a a fall of 80% (10->2). As a merchant, that means I gotta sell off my BTC right away inorder to pay for stock. Until people can pay for stock in BTC, that'll continue. And until people can be paid in BTC to make the stock, to be sold to the merchant... (of course, unless I'm confused about something).
Yeah it is kinda sucky, no argument there. But - until some stability in the exchange rate is achieved (whether at $.01 or $100), people need to not try and use Bitcoin in ways that volatility precludes. What I mean is, even a volatile currency is effective in certain situations. Consider Bit-pay's solution, wherein they allow a merchant to receive Bitcoin and "cash out" instantly upon receipt. This fully eliminates exchange rate risk, but still allows the merchant to receive payment with zero chargeback risk from any country in the world. If you're a merchant, don't try to hold bitcoins (unless you want to speculate on appreciation). Bitcoin is most useful in those situations where it can be purchased, transferred, and sold very quickly. Moving money from Japan to the US very quickly, buying something anonymously, or making a donation to a politically unpopular cause - these core uses are valid even without a stable exchange rate. Once market use for the above payments is widespread, the volatility will subside. Then, Bitcoin can increasingly be held on to. Bitcoin adoption will work in stages, and those who try to use it in "stage 3" type behavior before it has reached stage 3 will be disappointed. If there were some massive global PR about a new 'Bitcoin' which everyone can 'get in on', I could see that working. Of course these are all big 'ifs', and I admit I'm not educated in market forces at all... but that's why I ask questions  I think that plan would fail miserably, but it's always okay to speak your mind =) Remember that Bitcoin IS open to all people. Anyone can "get in on it." But like all real commodities, it has a price, and the ability to "get in" is limited by one's funds. This is not a shortfall of Bitcoin, but simply the natural property of a scarce commodity. Creating a new chain that "everyone could get in on" would mean either that it was given away freely based on something other than a pricing mechanism ( a lottery or something), or it was unlimited in its supply (in which case it'd be worthless and impotent in the transfer of value). Price mechanisms are our friend. Distributing valuable goods with anything other than a free market price will result in serious economic distortions. Create an alternative currency without a market price and a price will set itself in a black market, or shortages will occur. |
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Is there anyway to buy bitcoin with a credit card? The current payment and withdrawal seems quite tedious.
The market has not yet figured out a way to do it without chargeback risk. However, a few projects are in the works to remedy this, because long term the ability to purchase with a credit card is absolutely necessary. |
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Why reboot? You want to just negate that $18 milion people are holding? I personally don't want to reboot it... but you know... if we launched a fork OR had a consenus within the BTC community to halt printing of BTC. Moving forward the only on miners transaction fees (no more printing) you'll see the prices stablize and rise. In other words make it the year 2140 tomorrow. That would send BTC rising in value and most likely would attract investment again into it. That's my opinion, I just think Satoshi had a great idea.... a REALLY great idea, but he grossly misgauged the adoption rate.... We needed to stop at 6 million coins, not 21 million coins. Please do create a fork with your proposed rules, then we can see what the market prefers. |
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So here's perhaps a naive question,
Is it time for a reboot?
AFAIK "Bitcoin" is just a proof of concept. And it's shown to 'work'. But the initial release and distribution was so narrow, we have these massive sell-offs from just a handful of individuals. Now that the 'cryptocurrency' idea is out there and more people are aware, would it be prudent to launch a new chain with some of the lessons we've learned?
I promise you a "reboot" would have an even narrower "distribution" than what Bitcoin currently has. There is no reason for a "reboot" and doing so would shatter the entire value of Bitcoin. A currency that is "rebooted" is no currency at all, and certainly setting such a precedent would preclude any serious adoption of the subsequent currency. The ironic thing about your statement, is that if a narrow handful of "rich early adopters" are selling off, then it is achieving precisely the more broad distribution you seek. People are creating alternative chains... but so far I see none that are an improvement on Bitcoin, mainly because Bitcoin as a protocol or "set of rules" has not shown any serious flaw. It is secure and works as described. It's fast and efficient for all the transactions I've done with it. Inflation rate is known to all participants, and it has the brand recognition that no alt chain can compete with. When a -fatal flaw- in Bitcoin is discovered, then it makes sense to move to a different crypto-currency. Thus far, Bitcoin is devoid of fatal flaws and that alone is a remarkable feat. |
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The Bitcoin economy has grown actually. The exchange rate has fallen.
Current market price X Bitcions outstanding =/= "value of bitcoin economy"
no man it tanked. http://www.flexcoin.com/calcWe printed so many of them when the value was still decreasing. Causing hyperinflation. Peter the formula is there as well. Also the entire valuation of all the BTC combined dropped 200k since I hit submit 2 minutes ago. Total Value of Entire Bitcoin Economy $18,996,192.35 This however does change by the second, and will go up and down, but the trend is down and will continue to be until we slow down on printing them. Again, you are making a serious error in terminology economic reasoning. You are multiplying the market price of a bitcoin by the total bitcoins outstanding, then labelling THAT as the "value of the bitcoin economy" Why is that an error? Because the "bitcoin economy" is far more than the sum total of Bitcoins. It is the sum total of Bitcoins + the entire ecosystem of systems, goods, services, and intangible capital that constitutes the "Bitcoin economy" + any speculative value ascribed to either of the first two parts. As a quick example - I own and am building a handful of Bitcoin systems and companies. They have some value, call it "XX". Now, I also have about 250 bitcoins with a current value of about $600. Using your calculation, you're adding the $600 + "XX" and calling that equal to $600. So the only way your calculation is valid, is if my projects have a value of exactly zero, and I promise someone would pay at least $1 for what I'm building =) You really need to stop attributing the "bitcoin economy value" to the "aggregate market price of all bitcoins." They are not equivalent in any sense, and you are contributing to a "de-education" of people that read your posts. |
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The Bitcoin economy has grown actually. The exchange rate has fallen.
Current market price X Bitcions outstanding =/= "value of bitcoin economy"
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Awesome, thanks for providing Bitcoin as a payment option. I think you win the prize for biggest Bitcoin badge on the website =)
What merchant solution did you use for the BTC payments?
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Microorganisms are the most advanced species on the planet. You would die without them. They have existed for hundreds of millions of years and will outlive us. They can live for thousands of years and even survive interplanetary travel hitchhiking on a rock. One of them can kill you or your whole species.
Yeah but they don't have Xbox. Humans FTW |
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Awesome, can't wait to test it out.
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Why don't you sell the silly USD for a currency that isn't restricted by borders? Exchange to BTC, then withdraw. You are, in the same breath, both proving the value of BTC and ignoring it  |
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That guy spoke quite well - got a few facts wrong, but hit the major points eloquently.
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Erik, you are awesome! Now, if someone would just start a free state project in a more temperate state...
Hahaha yeah - many people will dedicate their lives to the cause of liberty... unless it's too cold sometimes! =) |
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I own BitcoinBooty.com... I'll sell it to you for 25 btc, and then the trade will prove your post correct =)
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Update on Oct 15 - Newsletter today sent to FSP mailing list of 15,000 Free State Project now accepts Bitcoin! (and you get some for free!)READ THE SEPARATE PRESS RELEASE HERE Some Free Staters have been hearing about Bitcoin – the new digital currency that has been gaining momentum, especially within the liberty movement. As of last week, the FSP is now set up to accept Bitcoin for donations as well as event registration fees (online store will soon follow). Additionally, everyone on the Free State Project mailing list (ie – anyone who received this newsletter) will be receiving a free Bitcoin donation tomorrow. Read on for more details… What is Bitcoin? Bitcoin is a decentralized digital currency – it is not run by any company, organization, or government. It works using peer-to-peer technology, meaning transfers of the currency go directly between two parties instead of a central server. Its supply is strictly limited based on a predetermined algorithm, and there will never be more than 21-million Bitcoins in existence. Unlike fiat currencies, a Bitcoin’s value comes purely from supply and demand within an open marketplace. There is no central bank to inflate or deflate the money supply. Bitcoins can be bought and sold at many online exchanges for national currencies, and can be used to purchase a growing number of goods and services all over the world. Unlike gold or silver, Bitcoins can be sent between any two accounts anywhere in the world instantly, and you never need to use a name or any personal details to have an account. Bitcoins are private and generally anonymous. Bitcoins are held on your computer (or at an online “ewallet”) – and nobody can prevent a Bitcoin transaction from happening. You may have heard earlier this year when Wikileaks’ funding sources were getting shut down by Visa, Mastercard, and Paypal. Bitcoin cannot be shut down in such a way, meaning Wikileaks now always has a source of private, anonymous funding. Bitcoin and FSPSome liberty advocates are extremely excited about the prospects of this currency, and that is why the Free State Project has decided to incorporate it as a payment method for donation and event registration. To help you get started with Bitcoin, the ghost of Frederick Bastiat has donated the funds for us to give each of you a tiny amount. You will receive another email tomorrow with instructions. If you wish to claim your gift, you will get a free ewallet account with BTCinch.com (ewallets allow you to store your Bitcoins if you don’t wish to keep them on your computer). The more you learn about Bitcoin, the more this new currency may interest you as a tool for voluntary, free-market exchange. Feel free to join the “Free State Bitcoin Consortium” group on Facebook (run by Erik Voorhees). Or to investigate Bitcoin further, a good starting place is WeUseCoins.com Watch out for the follow-up email tomorrow! |
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I forgot to include the obligatory sarcasm emoticon. TBH, I am not anti-bitcoin, I am anti-money. Period. I want to see bitcoin as the next evolutionary step before we get away from money altogether. I see bonds as just another way of selling silk purses.
The Khmer Rouge already were successful in ridding their country of money. I guarantee you that's not true. If there are people trading, some form of money will emerge. Maybe not an "official national currency" but who cares about that. |
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I forgot to include the obligatory sarcasm emoticon. TBH, I am not anti-bitcoin, I am anti-money. Period. I want to see bitcoin as the next evolutionary step before we get away from money altogether. I see bonds as just another way of selling silk purses.
That's silly. Money is as natural to mankind, and as necessary, as language. If people trade, they will barter for things. If they barter for things, a natural money-commodity will emerge in the marketplace. The world should abandon national fiat monies, not money as a concept. That's a bold statement that man needs money. If so, then why don't other intelligent animals use money? There are many animals with known language ability. In fact, most animals share resources. They care for their young and even extended family. How much do you charge your children for their breakfast? Have you never done anything for anyone without asking for something in return? I didn't say man "needs" money, I said man always develops money through exchange. It is natural because the only way to prevent something from being used as money is to use violence/force to prevent it. A government could perhaps "mandate" that no money be used, but even in practice you'd have people prefer one good over another for common trade, be it cigs or seashells or buttons... something always emerges as a common medium of exchange, a money. The fact that deer and alligators don't use money doesn't disprove my theory =) Also, just because societies always develop a form of money doesn't mean every transaction requires money. People always trade/barter with other goods... but this is always a minority of transactions in an economy. And of course people always "donate" to each other also - providing goods or services with no compensation. But again, the vast majority of value exchanges in a society will tend to use a form of money. It's unavoidable, and certainly nothing to be afraid of. |
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Bitcoins would then never be worth less than $1 each. For the plan to be credible, the wealthy person needs to accept the fact that $21m may be lost in the purchase of a worthless good. If he can commit to that cost, then the plan works.
I would have to disagree with this, someone could purchase all bitcoins for 1dollar, and they still could go to 0. Ummm no. If the foundation managed to purchase every single coin, then there would be no market price, except the $1.50 that the foundation offers to sell them at. In practice, the price would never get to $.99, because a seller would never sell at .99 when he could sell to the foundation at $1 |
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