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1761  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [OPERATION BLITZKRIEG] - FeedZeBirds Swarms CES! on: January 11, 2012, 03:10:22 AM
Ff someone believes in something, they should 'tweet' about it without the need for an incentive. A tweet that is paid for is a tainted tweet.

Tainted Tweeting Traumatizes Twitter Topic Trust.


Doesn't your website have advertising?  I think you should just promote that stuff without an incentive. A website that is paid for is a tainted website.

You get +100 points though for the alliteration.
1762  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: BITCOIN booth at CES Las Vegas! Tell all reporters! on: January 11, 2012, 12:19:26 AM
Another update from Tony... this is the live blockchain updating on screen at the event Smiley

You can find this here: http://blockchain.info/new-transactions?format=webgl

1763  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: BITCOIN booth at CES Las Vegas! Tell all reporters! on: January 10, 2012, 09:21:32 PM
Tony asked me to post these pics from earlier today...






Want to help send people to their booth?  See this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=57648.0

1764  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [OPERATION BLITZKRIEG] - FeedZeBirds Swarms CES! on: January 10, 2012, 09:02:32 PM
Fed .5 each  Smiley

Thanks soldier!!! The birds are flying!!
1765  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Which of the following is the best name/brand for a Bitcoin card? on: January 10, 2012, 08:43:31 PM
Hey - I own TheBitcoinCard.com and "The Bitcoin Card" is a great brand name for what you're doing.

I'll sell it for 5 btc if interested.
1766  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [OPERATION BLITZKRIEG] - FeedZeBirds Swarms CES! on: January 10, 2012, 07:45:28 PM
Sent 0.1btc to the destroy Paypal campaign.

That's my personal fav as well Wink
1767  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / [OPERATION BLITZKRIEG] - FeedZeBirds Swarms CES! on: January 10, 2012, 06:59:07 PM
Hello Soldiers!

As you know, Bit-pay (and Gox) are currently at the massive CES show in vegas. It's happening RIGHT NOW. There is huge media potential there, and we all know the media LOVES twitter these days, what with Egypt revolting and all.

So, it's time for FeedZeBirds+Bitcoin to show its marketing power and blow this shit up!


In coordination with Tony from Bit-pay and Roger Ver, I've created several FeedZeBirds twitter campaigns. Each one is tagged with #CES, so every time someone tweets them, it makes it more likely for reporters and pedestrians at CES to see the tweets and visit Tony's booth. This is our goal, to bring foot traffic and press to them.

I'm calling on forum comrades to toss a small donation to any of these campaigns. Your donation is immediately paid out to our army of several hundred FeedZeBirds members who will Tweet it. Your donation of .1 buys over 3,000 impressions! I also encourage you to make your own #CES campaign on FeedZeBirds if you know how (extremely easy) - just make sure you mention "#CES", "bitcoin", and "booth 70018".

FeedZeBirds.com/d0d9n
Donate: 1PcMsLu5ox6kiZCXk33JaitodWNB3S6Am7

FeedZeBirds.com/5396c
Donate: 1JYyqWkHKjoeaBk4qty71yaZTo5zZfNqbU

FeedZeBirds.com/0kxb6
Donate: 1DUZUeuepi1rCmoz3SDAuX5gqtGAJGoMpx

FeedZeBirds.com/36ipk
Donate: 1DaMuMTARWiqUgYLJ9fQR8X1RNSHUwkN53

Obviously this is time-sensitive... so do it now!

Here are your orders:

1) Donate to one of the addresses above  (.1 or .2 btc is great)
2) Retweet those messages if you use Twitter
3) Make your own #CES message on FeedZeBirds and fund it (optional)

This is crowd-sourced insta-marketing, made possible only by Bitcoins. FeedZeBirds (along with myself and Ira Miller) have donated several BTC already to help seed these.

Twitter is extremely powerful at these events, and I want every reporter to see first hand the power of Bitcoin!


UPDATE: #CES feed is getting about 2 tweets per second, so 120 tweets per minute. Our collective FeedZeBirds campaigns are getting about 1 tweet per two minutes in this stream. Thus, everyone at CES who pulls up their smartphone and checks the 10 most recent #CES tweets will have an 4% chance of seeing our message - which has an X% chance of compelling them toward Bit-pay's booth.

Keep it up!! Tweet tweet tweet!!!
1768  Economy / Speculation / Re: Clash of the Titans on: January 10, 2012, 06:14:07 AM
Something like that is likely to result in a Double-Zhoutonging!!!  Could open a rift in the Satoshi-time continuum.
1769  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Best Buy considering Bitcoin Please go and comment on the Discussion Board on: January 10, 2012, 05:29:57 AM
This is very cool to the extent that it's true tempus =) PM sent
1770  Economy / Speculation / Re: "Fundamental" reasoning for $4.5 bottom on: January 10, 2012, 03:50:06 AM

+1
Mr. Voorhees always seems to know what he's talking about...

... Especially in Jason X !!

XD

Anyone know where I can buy a chainsaw with Bitcoin?
1771  Economy / Speculation / Re: "Fundamental" reasoning for $4.5 bottom on: January 10, 2012, 12:36:04 AM
The profit/reward that miners get has zero to do with any "fundamental value" of Bitcoin.

Mining profitability is a consequence of the bitcoin price, not the other way around (how many times must this be said on the forum before people will get it?) =)

1772  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin's Development History (Video) on: January 10, 2012, 12:30:29 AM
Love it!
1773  Economy / Marketplace / Re: [ANN] Introducing PIMPCOIN – Bitcoins are SEXY NOW!!! on: January 09, 2012, 04:43:21 PM
OMG just found this on the PimpCoin site:

"Bitcoin is better than cash

- Avoid embarassment at the Bank
- You can lose your cash
- You can waste your cash
- Some bitch can steal your cash"


LOL all good points!
1774  Economy / Marketplace / Re: [ANN] Introducing PIMPCOIN – Bitcoins are SEXY NOW!!! on: January 09, 2012, 04:37:36 PM
Great work Tony - I remember when you guys bought this domain over dinner at the NYC convention, so glad it turned into the real thing hahahah

This seems like a perfect item to viraly market on FeedZeBirds.com - not that it will necessarily get orders through that medium, but it's a fun, funny, and interesting product. Could be someone out there who sees it and writes a news article about it.
1775  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Do you actually USE Bitcoin? Or does it use you? on: January 08, 2012, 09:21:35 PM
You only really run into problems when you have speculators deliberately acting in an irrational fashion... for example, because they know ahead of time they can cheat the system and get bailed out by taxpayers. If you know your losses will always be covered, you'll be incentivized to actually create more volatility to increase your profits, since the increased risk is irrelevant to you.


Extremely good point.

Another argument also is that speculation done under scenarios of price controls are likely to cause bad outcomes and distortions - onlookers may then blame the speculators, when they should've blamed the price controls.

US housing market is a perfect example of both these phenomenon - speculators knew they'd be bailed out so they took irrational risks, and this combined with the price controls on interest rates led to a predictable disaster. Yet who is blamed?  The greedy speculators!!!
1776  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Do you actually USE Bitcoin? Or does it use you? on: January 08, 2012, 08:16:12 PM
If speculating made markets less stable, then all markets would tend toward instability and chaos... because speculators tend toward markets which are volatile. More volatility would then equal more speculators, in turn equaling more volatility. Every market price int he world would freak out and explode with volatility.

Doesn't pass the straight face test. Speculators, whether they intend to or not, MUST make markets more stable over the long term. It's math. =)

1777  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Do you actually USE Bitcoin? Or does it use you? on: January 08, 2012, 07:58:58 PM
What you say sounds lovely, but I still see it as a bunch of people dumping money into bitcoin and a bunch of other people cashing out for profit.

You're observing it correctly, but you're using derogatory terminology which distracts you.

When people "dump money in"... what you mean is they are trading one currency for another, and increasing the price of BTC relative to USD. A portion of those USD then get used to build the bitcoin systems that you think we should all be using. When they "cash out for profit" they are again trading in reverse - but the key is that they are doing that reverse trade sometime in the future. This is what I mean when I say that speculators bring the value (and wealth) of the potential bitcoin economy from the future into the present. You're ignoring the dimension of time. Speculators rush in to this opportunity, price soars, those holding BTC can sell a portion of them at higher prices, and with this newfound wealth they can build the systems they struggle to build.

You think that people should only spend Bitcoin, never USD... but let's examine that.

Suppose for a minute that it was impossible to exchange BTC for USD. Would the Bitcoin economy grow faster? No. It would be seriously hamstrung - the market suffocated of vast amounts of potential trade. Those holding BTC could spend them only on a very narrow range of goods and services. Fine, I want wool socks, but not alpaca wool - I want sheep wool. Ooops too bad, no sheep wool sock merchant yet accepts bitcoin. And why would he? For he in turn would only be able to spend his revenue on a supremely narrow range of goods and services.  

Without the ability to exchange BTC for USD, one's BTC would only be as valuable as that which could directly be purchased with BTC. But WITH the ability to exchange for USD, the BTC is able to gain tremendous value - with two degrees of exchange I can buy anything in the world with Bitcoin. Without a link to dollars, that's impossible. Thank goodness we're able to trade it for more universally accepted forms of money, else Bitcoin would be limited by the merchants who wanted Bitcoin at time=0... and who the hell would want Bitcoin at time=0 when it can only be spent on goods/services existing at time=0?  Only the most foolish of merchants would ever accept such a thing, and in turn consumers would only be able to purchase a narrow range of goods from the most foolish of merchants.

Underlying this is the same reason it's silly when people suggest we move to a "barter" economy. Why produce concrete pilings when you can only trade them with people who directly want concrete pilings? USD let's the concrete piling maker sell for the currency, then trade the currency with anyone. Similarly, USD let's the Bitcoin maker sell for the currency, then trade the currency with anyone - making Bitcoin immeasurably more marketable. The extent of the market is vastly increased when one can exchange Bitcoin with those goods most widely desired around the world - specifcally, those goods called national currencies.  (side note: in reality we DO live in a barter economy, it's just that people choose to barter primarily with the good called USD, which we call money because it's so universally bartered with)



I've had lots of coffee so let's examine it from another perspective...

At time=0, Bitcoins had zero market price. I submit to you that the first person to risk something of real value (say, USD - which has real value because it can purchase things) on Bitcoins was the ultimate speculator, and according to your premise, he was a bad person who was bad for Bitcoin's development. If he had risked a good (like a loaf of bread) then you seem to say that's okay, but that doesn't make him any less of a speculator, because a loaf of bread is worth $3 USD... thus either way he's trading something worth $3 USD for the Bitcoins because he believes the Bitcoins to be more valuable than $3. He either trades $3 directly, or a $3 loaf of bread indirectly. You seem to think the former is wrong and destructive, and the latter valid and constructive. Nonsense. Both are valid and constructive.

Now, why he risked his real value USD, or his real value bread loaf, for zero-value BTC should be irrelevant to us, but he did it because he believed Bitcoins were underpriced at $0 each and was willing to bid $3 worth of currency or of bread. After his purchase, at time=1, that quantity of Bitcoins has a market value now equal to $3 - whether that's priced in terms of $3 USD or a loaf of bread that in turn is priced at $3 USD, the effect is the same. All the holders of coins can now better estimate the value of their holdings. They are made wealthier - their purchasing power increased - and can now more easily trade their BTC for goods that they need. They know that a certain amount of BTC is equal to $3 worth of bread which is equal to $3 USD. The next bidder can raise or lower his bread or USD bid, and from this progression we get a market price for Bitcoin. The reason someone places that bid is irrelevant - he's made a judgement and you can agree or disagree, and from these collective judgments a marketplace spontaneously emerges. Bitcoin sellers, Bread sellers, and USD sellers - all thinking and bidding based on their own demand curve, time preferences, and predictions for the future.

Whether the speculator does any of this trade to "help bitcoin" or to "help himself" is again irrelevant. What we care about is the effect of his action, not his motivation. The effect is demonstrably positive - it is to "bid" on a bitcoin, whether with USD or Bread, giving other market participants a precedent to in turn base their own bids from. A market price emerges- and you ought not care whether that price is $3-worth of bread or $3-worth of USD. Importantly, subsequent speculators after this first guy are no less useful, no matter their motivation, and no matter whether they bid with USD or with Bread.

Time for a sandwhich... which I'd be unable to buy for BTC but which I was in fact able to buy by trading BTC -> USD -> sandwhich ingredients. Some day, a merchant will decide to sell a sandwich directly for BTC, but only because the above process was able to take place.  Wink
1778  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Do you actually USE Bitcoin? Or does it use you? on: January 08, 2012, 05:29:32 PM

Those already producing, keep up the good work. Those interested only in consuming, thanks for sharing your wealth. Those interested in speculating the exchange rate of bitcoins to USD please understand to the producers in bitcoin you are about as useful as Atlas. The sooner you cash out and go on to the next 'big scheme', the sooner the rest of us actually using bitcoin can have some stability. Bitcoin speculators are no different than the 1%.

P.S. feel free to edumacate me Erik ^_^

I've been summoned!

Matthew your basic sentiment is excellent, and as btc enthusiasts we should all strive to participate in the btc economy. The more Bitcoin is used, the stronger it gets.

However, I strongly disagree with your antagonism toward "speculators" and those who buy Bitcoins merely to hold them. Hoarders of coins, or those who buy them to speculate on future appreciation, are risking their own capital to bring value from the future to the present. Those of us who believe in Bitcoin know that if it succeeds, the price will necessarily be far higher than today, as a massive economy uses it around the world. Speculators offer the crucial service of recognizing that future value and risking their capital to bring a portion of it into the present.

What benefits does that give Bitcoin World? Many. Primarily, it delivers exchange value to those holding bitcoins currently. It provides capital for those who use bitcoins to start new businesses. It demonstrates that people believe in the system, and are willing to risk their own wealth on it - which says much more than any forum post could.

A speculator who risks $100,000 on BTC gets no promise of any return. He may lose everything. But he sees a valuable system, before the world recognizes it, and he stakes his money on that observation. His $100,000 is traded to those in the Bitcoin community who need the dollars instead of the coins. To the extent that money is traded to Bitcoin enthusiasts and entrepreneurs, it becomes the seed capital from which all these endeavors are able to take place. The horder of bitcoins enriches the community with wealth - a portion of which will inevitably be spent building new systems from which Bitcoin gains strength.

Anyone who trades within the bitcoin economy - regardless of whether its for a good, a service, or another currency - enriches the person with whom he trades. The buyer of Bitcoin enriches the seller of Bitcoin, perpetuating the price signal to other market participants that Bitcoins are valued and demanded.

Case in point: I'm working on a new project and needed to buy a VPS a few days ago. Due to recent price appreciation in my BTC holdings, it was very affordable and I was able to purchase it earlier than I would have if the btc price was lower. By holding btc, I was made wealthier by others who sought to hold it, and as a result my Bitcoin project is progressing faster. The greedy speculator, unintentionally, just helped build the Bitcoin economy vis a vis my VPS purchase.

The horders and the speculators bring the future value of Bitcoin into the present. They raise the market price above what it would otherwise be, and in so doing, they enrich the community and advance its cause. It is another beautiful example of Adam Smith's Invisible Hand - for the speculator need only be self-interested for this to work.

Continue to cheer the merchants and developers... but also cheer the speculators, investors, and hoarders. It is the interaction between all these parties which advances the Bitcoin economy.



1779  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Could bitcoins be made illegal? on: January 08, 2012, 03:22:13 AM
Yes.  Democracy is the original 51% attack.

This is a brilliant statement. I might need to put that on a t-shirt some day, or put it in my sig...
1780  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Silk road on: January 08, 2012, 03:16:42 AM

Far better that ten guilty men go free than a single innocent man is convicted.

That hasn't been government policy for quite a while.
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