You constantly claim the Factom team wouldn't care about their Investors. As if they wouldn't update us, as if it would be a mystery how to get in contact with them if needed.

You try to give the impression, they just would've "used" their ICO-Investors. And you poor guy feel used (you said that, without even being an ICO-Investor which gives an extra-entertainment-point )

More important: You spread desinfo like there would be "another way" to purchase Entry Credits, without a demand for Factoids, which is bullshit. EVERY TIME Entry Credits are purchased, Factoids are converted into Entry Credits and "burned"!
  

I don't care about your opinion. But you spread desinfo here. And I see you as dishonest because it's kind of weird to complain about a delay regarding M2 but at the same time you praise Ethereum while they obviously released not just a flawed DAO-project but have to face very serious problems with the whole platform - Ethereum --> Solidity flaws. Plus: Everybody who bought into DAO is in a huge loss now. Plus: All DAO-ETH will reach the market in another way it was planned. ;-)  But yeah, complaining about Factom and Ethereum is the real deal. That is nothing but a joke.



Because of your constant and superficial complaints about M2. But especially because you felt used as an Investor ("Still, doesn't change the fact I felt used." #3008) - I still get tears in my eyes reading this.


No, it's not a lie. But it's a lie to claim they would've made a promise. And being late in software development... that's totally unusually in your opinion? I often said: If they would make vacation, tweeting beach-pics instead of working, you maybe could have a point. But it's obvious that they are working their ass off on multiple fronts. And it's obvious that there is progress on multiple fronts. It's visible in the github, it's obvious because of the partnerships, it's obvious that they are doing a lot of marketing and so on. But yeah, they don't do marketing for guys like us. They do it to get customers for the system instead of hyping Factoids to the moon. Could they do that? Of course they could. They wouldn't need more than maybe 60 minutes to trigger a buy-panic. But they are professionals, not Shitclonecoin-Developer who want to dump their shit.


 Man, it's not just about Bitcointalk. There is also reddit, and just for example: Here are posts of Paul Snow about Factom of the last days:

https://www.reddit.com/r/factom/comments/4p9xm2/segwit_and_factom/d4jb493
https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4ooxnr/dept_of_homeland_security_awards_200k_to_factom/d4fjv3v
(....and so on, there are more....)

The same is true for Brian Deery. They are also active in other platforms, plus twitter etc.  

And yes, they don't write here often. But why should they? To hold our hands or tell us fairytales? They give constant updates and that's enough. They are not responsible for the market dynamics. They are not responsible for short-term-price-changes. They are not responsible for guys who buy high, feeling used without any rational reason (what have you done for Factom?) and complaining constantly. You want them to work because you want profit, while you do.... what exactly?



You can say whatever you want to. But if you spread desinfo I will say what I have to say. In your eyes that may be cheerleading or whatever. I don't care because at least I give infos.

And just by the way: While you call all and everything a "fact", I very often say "in my opinion" or "out of my view" or "I believe" or "I think" to make clear what is objective information and what is just my personal opinion.  

It's not because you think "differently" or because you have another opinion. You keep on telling lies, you spread des-info and you call that "facts" (or now you call it "truth" - even hurting truth, which is laughable). And really, your whiney behavior was kind of entertaining some months ago but since some time it's only annoying.

I'm also not a one of the ICO-Investors. You was it who claimed Factom wouldn't care about their ICO-Investors (and they were not selected. everybody was free to buy - I just wasn't aware). That's why I told you that they most likely disagree with you, because those who still hold are more than safe in the profit-zone. And I told you that it's wrong anyway, plus some other facts you try to distort and some infos you obviously doesn't understand, even if somebody tries to explain it again and again...


P.S.: It's kind of paradox to say "I keep trying to explain to people discussion does not have to based on mutual insulting" and to continue with "assholes like you" ;-)

P.P.S: Thanks for the laugh.

1. The "argument" of crazyivan was that Factom did an ICO but now they wouldn't care about their Investors. That's kind of "double-wrong".
2. I didn't buy the ICO but right after launch and continuous the first three months and I still buy if I have money free and the price is cheap in my opinion.



Factom should buy Factoids not from Poloniex but from "loyal Investors" at higher prices? Those loyal Investors can sell their FCT 10 times above ICO-price on Poloniex. No need for a Factom-charity-organisation.

And what Factoid-holders hope for is a widely used system, because every time somebody wants to place data into Factom and purchases Entry Credits ---> Factoids are converted into Entry Credits and out of the system - "burned".

The higher the use, the higher the conversion-rate of FCT's --> EC's = less FCT's in the System = higher price


At the same time there are about 73k new created Factoids each months as payment for the federated server.



They didn't give a prediction because they can only think in scenarios. Should they make promises without hard facts? But take a look here, just the last months:

iSoftStone and Factom Announce a Partnership to Integrate Blockchain Technology and Smart City Solutions
https://www.factom.com/isoftstone-and-factom-announce-a-partnership-to-integrate-blockchain-technology-and-smart-city-solutions/

Ancun and Factom Inc Announce a MOU for the Integration of Blockchain Technology and Traditional Notarization Services in China
https://www.factom.com/ancun-and-factom-inc-announce-a-mou-for-the-integration-of-blockchain-technology-and-traditional-notarization-services-in-china/

Rongdu Technology and Factom Inc. Announce a Partnership to Build New Fintech Solutions with Blockchain
https://www.factom.com/rongdu-technology-and-factom-inc-partnership/

DHS S&T Awards $199K to Austin Based Factom Inc. for Internet of Things Systems Security
https://www.factom.com/dhs-st-awards-199k-to-factom-inc/


Or here you'll find even more company-names, partially without that there would be announcements yet (most likely testing):

Usage Statistics
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RUZLxxoAfT3C5jIJ144DLYdztYe_sqrKqbTlZuD05-s/edit#gid=445871101




Entry Credits are only used to place data into the system: 1 Entry = 1 Entry Credit = $ 0.001
They are pegged to the use of the system.

And again: Every time somebody needs Entry Credits, Factoids are converted into EC's and "burned".


 
Factom will be decentralized. It needs an incentive to run the federated servers. FCT's are the payment for that. It's like a Factom-currency. You can trade it, you can transfer it and the price can fluctuate.

EC's are no Crypto-Currency and they have a fixed price. Big companies like banks don't touch cryptocurrencies because of regulatory issues. But they can purchase Entry Credits for Dollars. And no matter how customers purchase EC's (first FCT's and convert it into EC's themselves or directly for $), every time Factoids are converted into Entry Credits and burned.

And if you think about that: It's a nearly perfect economical design. Here is why:

1. A decentralized system with incentives for professionals to run the federated server.
2. No need for customers to touch any Cryptocurrency, they don't even need to know about the existence of Factoids
3. The price of Factoids can fluctuate, but because of the burning-rate it will reflect the real use of Factom


If they would use just Entry Credits  --> as a token, they would have at least two problems:

1. A fluctuating price would mean: Tomorrow it could cost twice as much as today. No company would ever use such a system.
2. It would be a cryptocurrency - a lot of companies are not allowed to buy a cryptocurrency to have access to a system


This is the most elegant system I've ever seen. They've eliminated all kinds of friction regarding their potential customers, and at the same time they've found a perfect way to keep it decentralized. The best of both worlds without weak points I would know of.

1. Everybody who bought into the ICO is with about 3.5 times in profit in BTC - a fact
2. Everybody who bought into the ICO is with about 10 times (!!!) in profit in Dollar - a fact
3. The Factom team continuous delivers and keeps us informed - a fact
.........just check this: https://twitter.com/factomproject/with_replies
....................or this: https://www.factom.com/blog/
4. Everybody can check that they are working hard here: https://github.com/FactomProject/  - constant updates - a fact
5. Directly purchased Entry Credits (for $) nevertheless "burn" Factoids - A FACT! (I often tried to explain but obviously you don't get it)
6. So yes, please stop with your bullshit-stories

Same here. But a real explosion of real use needs real work. And real work needs real time, not "crypto time" (one week = one year).

You can write whatever you want. You can buy or sell whatever you want. It's just not that easy to take you serious. If Ethereum goes up you use words like "recover" (right before it dropped again), or "increase". If FCT goes up just some percentage it's a "pump". If the price is down you spread your whiney theory, the Factom-team would intentionally hold it down.

And your faith in the smartness of the market seems to be endless. Ethereum goes up and you say it's "going back where it belongs". The FCT-price didn't react that much on the latest news and you believe to see that Factom is not "something where market believes into the last DHL deal being so overwhelming and crucial." As if the market would be rational or anticipate developments in a smart way. Did the market anticipate Ethereums flaws? Did the market anticipate that DAO is a Hippie-joke? No. But Individuals did - and I warned as well.

But you continue to complain about the M2-delay while you still believe that Ethereum is a buy, with all it's serious flaws and millions of DAO-ETH reaching the market soon. Ethereums situation is exactly why I'm glad that the Factom-team is diligent AND carefully. Reason Nr. 1 why Factom is my Nr. 1 is because of the professionalism of the team and the absence of stupid hyping while they are hard working and having obvious success in the real business-world. Factom won't be just an overvalued 1 bn-marketcap-playground to try out some overcomplex coding-"magic" with security-flaws plus economical risks (DAO would bring that even without flaws). Factom is aimed to be a serious provider for real customers. They can't just play around in public - they already have serious partnerships.

Again: Prices say nothing about real value and all markets involve irrational dynamics. Success as a trader is not about reacting on prices (buy high - sell drunk) but about anticipation. And while it's possible to anticipate a hype and make profit out of it, it's hard to get out early enough (Ethereum- and DAO - holder learned that) if reality knocks at the door. Just one reason why I didn't buy Ethereum - and DAO was a joke right from the start.

My prediction for Factom is nearly exactly the same like back in the first three months after launch. Some were also complaining, right before the price shot up. My prediction for Ethereum is that the current price-recovery is a bulltrap and that Ethereum will continue to fall. At least I feel much better with Factoids than I would feel with Ether.

Es geht mir nicht um eine Bewertung desjenigen der 5 Mio gedumped hat, sondern lediglich darum, dass das natürlich Druck auf den Preis gebracht hat und damit ein entscheidender Grund sein dürfte. Dazu kam dann noch das DAO-Desaster und Bitcoin ist bis gestern auch kontinuierlich gestiegen und unterm Strich kann man dann froh sein dass der Kurs nicht tiefer gefallen ist und sich schon wieder erholt.

I really like this tweet of Max:


Until now I got in contact with exchanges, big tech companies, VCs, foundations, entrepreneurs, CEOs, startups, and the Chinese culture!
https://twitter.com/MaxKordek/status/745245983395635201

You say something that is most likely very true. For those who are new to Factom it may be hard to understand some aspects and to find the informations they need. At least there is no document or site that gives it all on one look. But that was already the same when it got my attention, back in October. And it's the same for all other projects that are worth to do research about.

And my advice to everybody, and it's really meant as advice not just as an attempt to hype Factom: It will most likely turn out as a mistake not to invest some time and energy to dig deeper about this project.

The reason is simple: I don't know of any other project in Crypto that already has so deep connections to the real business-world and that is so professional in all areas. At the same time it's not a hype-project. They don't do any PR for Factoids and they don't focus on people like us because Factom doesn't even need this kind of adoption, which is just another great strength. They focus on potential customers and they are more than just good with that.

All together, exactly that is an opportunity for those who invest some time to find out for themselves. In comparison with some other projects, Factom is far ahead while it doesn't get that much attention like Ethereum or Lisk or Waves and some other projects around. The marketcap of Factom is not even $ 10 Mio. The marketcap of Waves is at > $ 20 Mio. Ethereum is still near to $ 1 bn, after news came out that their coding-language (Solidity) is flawed and economical they are in big trouble as well (The DAO-ETH will reach the market in another way it was intended).

And there is one big misconception in Crypto: People see high prices and come to the conclusion that a project is worth it because others seem to believe it. People see low prices and come to the conclusion there must be something wrong. But the main-reason for high prices of a project is just the hype around it. And there is no hype in Factom. This project will prove it's value for real.

So, it's most likely still very cheap because it simply doesn't get that much attention and is not that easy to understand. But who wants to be on the smart side of the market should do the work to find out what this is about instead of stepping back because it needs more than just 10 minutes. And the majority of Crypto-Investors are lazy as hell... just following others. In the end, DAO is a great example how that very often turns out. Blind people leading the blinds. I know for sure that a lot of Investors who bought into the DAO-CFC never understood what it is (was) about. And while the leaders understood very well what it should be about, and of course they focused on the DAO-money to fund their slock.it-project, they were not able to do it right and now it's a disaster.

And everybody who doesn't do research, who doesn't want to think for himself, shouldn't complain if things end in a mess. One misconception of The DAO was about "swarm-intelligence". It's a myth. Swarm-intelligence is nearly always about the intelligence of a small group on top of a crowd and in all areas where big money is involved, there are hidden intentions the public wouldn't like if they would really understand what it's about instead of being used for those hidden intentions. Crypto is not better than usual politics, in some cases it even may be worse. The majority of people is easy to impress, easy to use, easy to betray - but it's everyones own fault.

The Factom-team doesn't do much to intentionally impress people and leading them into buying FCT's to hype the price. And that's just another point that shows quality and not weakness.


Just by the way, a good chart-analysis on one sight:
https://twitter.com/tradebitcoinus/status/745173266621358080

I don't think Ethereum is "broken", but obviously it's in big trouble and the DAO-bug is not just about DAO but about Solidity:



Ethereum itself seems to be flawed according to the latest developments on the DAO Hack.

(...)

[T]his was actually not a flaw or exploit in the DAO contract itself: technically the EVM was operating as intended, but Solidity was introducing security flaws into contracts that were not only missed by the community, but missed by the designers of the language themselves.

(...)

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/ethereum-solidity-flaw-dao/


Many say that. Another example:

"This problem is so serious that it cannot be treated as a bug in the DAO. The problem is with Solidity itself, which is the scripting language used in Ethereum. "

(...)

A sign that no one is prepared to write smart contracts in Solidity is the fact that the Ethereum dev team, the people who designed both Solidity and the DAO, could not even fix their own bug. They don’t have the ability to approach these bugs correctly, and neither, in my opinion, does anyone else. It may be possible to reliably write smart contracts that work correctly, but currently no one knows how to do it.

(...)

http://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/ethereum-is-doomed/?fb_ref=Default#selection-261.3-265.96

Another interesting article about the DAO-Hack and Ethereum:


"Ethereum itself seems to be flawed according to the latest developments on the DAO Hack."
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/ethereum-solidity-flaw-dao/

If somebody dumps millions of Lisk because he is pissed, it's better that he did it. Now it's distributed.

Better now as if he would dump on good news right before the price would(!) go up but is dumped back down.

Hab da jetzt nicht tiefer recherchiert was genau vorgefallen ist, aber das hier dürfte der Grund sein warum Lisk so deutlich gefallen ist:


"After being upset over this lightbulb issue, our stakepool-member goes to the exchanges and dump about 5 million Lisk on the market, takes down his node-server and leave us all wondering what just happen."

https://wp.stakepool.com/2016/06/18/an-official-apology-to-the-lisk-community/

Weiß jemand mehr?

It's true what you say,  that "Factom still needs to show what it can do in the future". It's not finished yet. But what they build and what they will offer is something like a logical next step in the blockchain-industry. It's kind of simple in comparison to some other projects.

And what you say is even more true for Ethereum. If you subtract all hype around it, if you subtract the "vitalik-myth" of a genius wonder-boy we see a very ambitious project with the goal to develop smart contracts on the blockchain. Does that work so far? Yes, but in a way that an attacker can turn a smart contract against itself, against it's original purpose. I'm not a coder and the majority of Investors and Speculators are not. But all signs I see point on: Ethereum has a lot of problems to solve and some plans are a very high risk (I consider Casper as a high risk for example, in short- and longterm). I don't know how much Ethereum should be used to justify a marketcap above 1 billion. I'm not even sure if a marketcap above 100 Mio would be justified. It's hype in my eyes.

But, I don't say Ethereum is a bad project. It's a very good project and it has value for the whole Crypto-world. But maybe more like the first touch-screens in the 80's or some other early innovations that really reached the market 10 or 20 years later. Quiet often it wasn't the original Developers and companies who realized the high ambitions. And that could also turn out to be Ethereums destin - that others will learn a lot from Ethereum and other projects in the smart-contract-area while Ethereum could simply die over time. It's maybe too early to make a real business out of smart contracts.

Factom: Like I've said... it's the logical next step. It's not that complex like Ethereum. It is a business-model that already would be successful if there would be providers. That's just one reason why Factom could benefit from the first-mover-advantage while Ethereum maybe more builds the ground for others to do it better.

And: Factoms marketcap is at $ 11 Mio. Ethereum is at $ 1 bn. That's kind of a huge spread if we think about the above. And while I exactly know what it needs to justify Factoms marketcap and while there is near to zero hype in Factom, I have no idea why Ethereum should be that high-priced (still, after the drop) and I would recommend everybody to think always(!) this way and not the other way around, to believe something must have "this" value because so many others are willing to pay so much and after they've bought into it they are convinced that lower prices are "cheap" and that others are stupid to sell etc. They really believe it - but without really knowing why.

I'm really not that idealistic that I would say it's stupid to buy something because of a hype. I did that, too (LISK). But I believe it's not smart to be invested when things become clearer and the hype is about to expire. That is what happens now with Ethereum. In Factom there never was such a hype and if there should ever be really a hype it will be based on real success. The prices will also overdrive and form a bubble and the bubble will burst right after like they always do, but the price will have a real base because of real use. Ethereums price-base is unknown. Not sure if it would be undervalued if it would be just at $ 30 Mio for example. In my opinion it's a "computer-science-project", like a laboratory. I have some doubts that it will lead to a viable business while I have zero doubts that Ethereum will have huge competitors in future.

I'm still the same opinion like many months ago that Factom doesn't get the attention it deserves from the Crypto-Community and Investors. But that's not a weakness but the opposite. Factom doesn't even need it. Ethereum on the other hand will most likely break with some "Blockchain-rules" and risk it's credibility to bail out DAO-Investors. And why? Because the biggest Investors are from the team. Most likely they will make decisions against the system out of economical reasons - before there is really another business-model for the system than betting on exchanges.

International Business Times:


US Department of Homeland Security awards Factom funding for blockchain IoT project
https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/us-department-homeland-security-awards-factom-funding-blockchain-iot-project-1566239?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Exactly! Tiana Laurence pointed that (also about NDA's) perfectly (and funny) out:

"So much is happening, we just can't talk about it....you are such a jerk...!" ;-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBnZoZtkoa8&feature=youtu.be&t=37m

I doubt you have a point here. The reason is, that the word "honesty" in Factom is more than just PR/marketing. Factom will only have success if they do absolutely nothing that would compromise them or the system. With that being said: It's nothing bad about it if a "honesty-system" is implemented as much as possible in dishonest areas, like politics, finances, etc.

If you want that only the "good guys" use Factom it misses the point. Important is that Factom itself is on the right side, that the system is really credible and nearly impossible (nothing is totally impossible) to corrupt. And I have no doubt that the team will do all to be on the safe side regarding that subject if it comes to partnerships with institutions that might be shady in some ways. I don't have too much knowledge about US-Institutions (from germany), but what I find really interesting is reading Paul Snows posts on reddit about politics. I don't know him personally but I would make any bet that he is not just in this game for the money but honest about the deeper meaning of Factom.

If Bitcoin would drop now - Factom would explode.

Absolutely agree. It shows that there is a lot going on behind the curtain and it's kind of a proof how professional the team is and in which direction this could go.


Another article about it:

Dept of Homeland Security Awards $200K to Factom for ID System
https://news.bitcoin.com/dhs-awards-200k-factom/