Fiat also comes into play in estimation of future demand, hence also difficulty.

Unless the world develops a deep bitcoin economy, fiat ROI considerations are important.

DO NOT BUY FROM THEM ARE YOU CRAZY .. they havent replaced any of the fucked up miners they have shipped they never reply to no emails . I shipped back a miner and no one was there to pick it up . lying sack of shits I get no replys from AMT . maybe on the description on your product you should put that you shipped half ass miners 1.2 but if we send you a 300 ghs you can just eat shit .. that bull crap about rma was only giving to a few people so they can look some what good .

Your assuming they didn't sell or go into mining or franchising. Both are assumptions to be taken as merely that. Along that same vien Spoondoolies future chip specifications and availability are merely assumptions until they physically exist.

Thanks RoadStress, you beat me to it.

If you think that those chips won't sell you are delusional.

So you are saying AM will not be able to sell hardware that consumes ~1W/GH at the wall and costs them less than 0.3 BTC per TH at the chip level because no one will want that. Yet you think its a good idea to buy shares that represents nearly 6BTC/TH and with electricity cost that are nearly 10x higher than any AM/Antminer/CT/whatever miner run in iceland or washington dc ?

Think that through..

Any chance we can get a weekly update Ken?

Yes I think you could get a datatank for about that price and that is exactly what their IPO is offering.

Even if you can't buy your own container from allied control for that cheap you can probably make your own for that price or even less. I somewhat doubt that allied controls 3rd try is the most cost/energy efficient possible with 2-phase immersion cooling. For example 3m was able to cool 4KW with only 0.2 liters of novec. If you could match that then you would only need 50 liters or $2,500 worth of fluid per MW.

I'm not sure how 0.6w/gh at the wall transformer for a datacenter is too much power.

I am assuming you mean using SP 28nm chips you could get 2.5PH and you would probably be about right. Question is why are they not taking advantage of this technology?

yup, i'm sure he would. if your miners are in the same d/c i would imagine you should get pretty decent latency!
at that price, I should be able to manage it again 0% fee free.  as ever, everything will be transparent.

Without knowing how many millions they will spend on wafers, thats not a conclusion you can draw. What you can probably safely conclude, is that they intend to order a shitload of wafers. Lets make some guesses. Lets say the mask set cost $5M and lets say per TH cost scales linearly with node/transistor size. 20²/28²~=0.5. So if they intend to order >$5M worth of wafers, it  makes sense excluding even the improved power efficiency.

Stop drinking Inaba's coolaid. 20nm structured asics (altera hardcopy etc) dont even exist yet.

Now given how new/experimental 20nm still is, I am sure its a standard cell implementation which will never be optimally efficient. But keep in mind that smaller process nodes offer 2 advantages; first is power efficiency, the second is transistor density which directly translates in to cost per TH.

NRE might have been sky high, but unless yields are in the toilet, 20nm chips should be cheaper to produce than 28nm chips per TH.

Where are dividends  ? ? ?
..............

Right now around minimum of 36 millions $ are somewhere

It costs about $450k per MW and as I said earlier you are saving ~$100k on fans/heatsinks/cases/etc..

Your calculations are not including the savings from performance boost.
Here are my calculations for a 1MW WA DC at 0.025$/kwh:
Air cooled: $200k(base cost) + $18,000/month
830TH * 0.8w/gh * 1.5PUE = 1MW
Immersion cooled: $350k + $18,000/month
1.66TH * 0.6w/gh * 1.01PUE = 1MW
Or
Air cooling
$24/gh at 1.2w/gh
Immersion cooling
$0.21/GH at 0.6w/gh

Physical assets that depreciate much faster than snow melts in the sahara and dividends that are function of difficulty. Have you looked at difficulty or network hashrate charts recently? Yesterday difficulty went up 14.5%  and  its currently projected to increase >18% in 11 days. That means dividends go down by the same amount, and your physical assets depreciate by about  as much, and this is even before the big onslaught; Asicminer based rigs start shipping this or next week, good for a total of 60-100PH (!). Antminer starts shipping its 28nm S3 next week. KnC starts shipping and probably deploying its 20nm this week. Heck, even BFL may finally begin deploying some Monarchs this week, and then there is my hunch that a 28nm Bitfury is just around the corner.

Is this the datatank thread? I thought we were talking about the immersion DC in hong kong.

Of course if FC had access to a $0.025/kwh DC he would have used it.

And even at $0.025/kwh you would save ~$0.2/w per year from immersion cooling so it would pay off in less than 2 years.

Also the tanks don't depreciate in value and can be reused for next gen hardware so even more savings.

1.5 PUE is the average for hong kong. And 1.5 PUE is not even bad for an air cooled DC in a hot climate. Spongebobtechs expensive high tech cooling DC only has a PUE of 1.3 iirc and electricity costs probably not much below $0.15/kwh. (considering they are charging $0.27/kwh..)

BTW why are you now saying $0.15 is so bad when only a week ago you were saying that it is completely viable for your customers?

There are zero cost savings involved with organizing a group buy this way.

No, miners can have a performance boost in immersion cooling as you can see with the datatank somehow managing 0.6w/gh at the wall with BE200 compared to the most efficient air cooled system I've seen (open source BE) is only ~0.9w/gh.

PUE in hong kong is 1.5 average so a 500kw system would use 250kw for cooling. In reality the savings are even more than that because of the performance boost.

Pre-Order in Bulk. Spon won't have to worry about Refunds, people will just have to sell their shares if they want out. Spoon gets a Lump sum of money now without having to waste time or money marketing this product. They are effectively paying for a middle man which is worth the cost if they can get the money sooner rather than later IMHO. Though I would be wary about this Group Buy. RS has been advertising/arguing (in every thread I have been to in the last week) for Spondollies like he works for them, I don't see how some other person is going to get a lower price point than RS at this point. Would be kind of cool to see, though I don't really mine. Good Luck

If this was a real group buy then they would get bulk pricing which someone said was $2500 per sp30.

What? 

AMT miners Europe shipped out several orders over the last few weeks and they were made over the last few weeks. What are you getting at.

Immersion cooling costs nowhere near $1-2/w. The datatank prospectus says about $0.45/w. Keep in mind that this was built in allied controls building so there are some cost savings. There would be another ~$0.1/w savings from not needing heatsinks/fans/cases. (There is also the savings from not needing to buy an AC but ill leave that out)

500kw * $0.35/w = $175,000 (I suspect it was less)

Electricity savings: 250kw *$0.15/kwh * 5000kwh = $187,500

Not sure why the immersion dc has not been filled with gen3 chips but I really doubt FC is simply choosing to wait.