Lisk is risk.

Disclaimer: I hold ETH

eth went up because of the dao the dao is coming to a close now so its obvious it will fall back but alot of eth has been locked up so its primed for tasty pump. when i dont know as long as lisk  tops out and il sell then and get into eth for that pump.

many big coins including Etherium have suffered a hard dump preparing for LSK launch .

We need fresh money from outside habitual cryptomarketcap to come into or we are death

so i have been checking with my buddy who works a polo about lisk, he says 100% they will list it but as of today they still auditing the wallet code as it is buggy thinks it will take them a week to 10 days to throw it up, also says lisk is struggling to decide to delay the launch until polo is ready because he says they got no real exchanges line up just shitty yobit c-ex and blue trade or whatever it is called so don't be surprised if in the last minute a delay is announced at least it will mean a real exchange is ready

I agree it makes no sense to get into the DAO right now (at least via selling LISK). But I'm not sure your conflict of interest holds water.
And let me state I am interested in both the DAO and LISK (and a few other ICO's) and I look forward to LISK having its own DAO as well.

If there is a proposal for a DAO investment that is accepted, why would: 1 - they invest in a project with a far out return that can hurt them? (They would have to manage this.) 2 - they invest in a project that is just going to cash out the ETH? (Look at ETH and BTC both, many of those with lots of "tokens" used those tokens by investing in other companies and those "tokens" were often passed on as such, not necessarily cashed in. This is money after all.
I think you are looking at this from one perspective. You did not take into consideration that the voters of the DAO will HAVE TO consider the points you brought up and if they do and still vote on it, it will have to be for a good reason.  

I really think it is a weak argument to primarily look at the first of its kind type of thing in the DAO, purely from a one sided perspective as you did. I'm not saying your arguments have no truth to them as they do, but you only presented that one side and it is clear to anyone who understands this tech, that you just focused on that one side and that distorts the argument of course, as you present it as the data set and not a part of a larger one.

The DAO's value can be worth more than the money it has in it for a variety of reasons. The most obvious would be something along the lines of a PE ratio, which is forward looking. The DAO (or a DAO on LISK too) allows people to crowdfund in an incredible flexible way, removing the normal borders. Another reason would be one of a lack of regulation due to the before mentioned reason (And I would imagine this can of course be a negative as well.)

Nothing here is safe, huge chance but we are talking another Black Swan type thing here. We know not what it can do and all that it can disrupt.

Re. Plus - Invest in what you like, but don't make your personal opinions one of reason for the rest. Crowds generally decide much better than individuals do. You can see this trend across many spaces and I'm not exactly sure why but it is there. But that is your reason right there. Another one would be -  If you are not an institutional investor (i.e. rich) you can't invest in many things. Economic discrimination, I mean protection. lol

 
I agree with your conclusion though.  

While I agree with a lot of what you said, it is conceivable that the DAO will have opportunities to invest in projects that you as an individual do not - people may go direct to the DAO to raise money rather than on bitcointalk, for example.

If this becomes a trend then you may have no choice but to have some funds in the DAO in order to access certain opportunities.  

Hope bittrex so i could sell all and buy DAO ico(130 millions).
I think 90% of lisk holder will dump to buy DAO.

Maybe i will buy later lisk, but priority is DAO now.

Here are the statements Max made. I will keep updating this post while the meeting continues.

Lisk Community Meeting Summary

Our agenda is looking the following:

In the beginning we will tell you where we stand at the moment. That means we will talk a bit about:

- Testing
- Network Stability
- Current Team

From there on we progress to the work we are doing at this moment. Our current work consists of:

- Launch Date
- All necessary tasks until launch
- Marketing

Finally, we will talk a bit about future development. What you can expect of Lisk in the future.

- A few hints about our Long Term Roadmap
- Apps in Development
- Development Plan
- Core Apps

After that is done, we will transition to a traditional AMA. So you can ask all kind of questions to us. 🙂

Testing

As you know we pushed out many versions in the last few weeks within the 0.2.x branch. Many of you had problems with the fork 3 issue. With every version we released the issue got smaller. With 0.2.3 we are finally at a state at which we can launch Lisk. Before the launch we will release another Lisk client with the number 0.2.4 in order to finalise the client for launch.

We want to thank everyone who participated during the tests and if you have any specific question about it, feel free to ask us in the AMA part later in the meeting.

Network Stability

This is an extremely important part of a cryptocurrency. It needs to run 24/7. With the latest update we finally got to a point at which we can say that our network is stable enough to be released. It's not perfect yet, but we did *a lot* during the past month alone. So you can expect *major* advancements in the coming months as well. Later on I will tell you a few things about our development plan, the network stability will be an important first part of it.

The next update 0.2.4 will contribute a lot more to network stability. It will be the final version we release at launch as 0.3.0.

Network Stability -> Stress testing

In terms of network stability I also want to point out that we successfully stress tested the network. We included a lot of transactions into the blocks, which are currently artificially limited to 25 transactions per block. The network survived. 🙂 So after we enhanced and optimised our code more, we can also increase the maximum transaction limit.

Transactions per block

This is important in order to be more secure from attacks. The more transactions a block can contain, the more expensive an attack becomes. In terms of transaction load of the network with 25tx/block, we are already at a point at which we could support a lot more users than there are right now. 🙂

Developers

As you know we recently hired @fixcrypt and @isabella. They are a huge help for us and are contributing greatly. We are very happy that we took this step before launch. Now that the launch is coming closer every minute, I want to make clear that we will begin to scout new developers shortly after launch. For that purpose we created an extra page on our website: https://lisk.io/careers

This is our current status on development progress, network stability, testing, and hiring. We have added a lot to Lisk since we began our journey early January. We have come a long way, but this is just the beginning.

Thanks to our extremely active community there are issues raised on GitHub every day. Please note an issue is not a fatal bug, but often just an enhancement or a glitch. These issues which often were quite important, and the problems with the "fork 3" error we had in the past weeks forced us to neglect the pre-launch roadmap a little bit.

I assure you that we didn't forget it. We will finish it up as soon as possible after launch. We did a lot more than stated on the pre-launch roadmap. As the changelogs are showing.

For example a feature which was not mentioned in the pre-launch roadmap is the complete back end switch to a new database engine. This allows us to scale past our previous limitations. If you want you can ask a few questions about the switch later. 🙂

This concludes the current status. Let me get to the current work and preparations for launch.

As you know, we will finally launch on May 24th! We are EXTREMELY happy about it. We are excited to see Lisk running in the wild, evolving into the next big thing in the technology world.

This date is final, we are putting all our efforts into that date. However, please note that this is still software development. While the day is 100% secure, we can't announce a specific time yet. We may be able to do it closer to launch (e.g. 23rd), but I can't give you one at this moment.

We are aware that a launch time is necessary. We will try our best to give you one. We just can't announce it today. We try our best to announce it on 23rd.

Now let's talk about what we need to do until launch:

1. We need to compile a list with all public keys, Lisk addresses and the LSK amount they receive. This will be the foundation of the genesis block.

2. Then we need to generate the genesis block in which every ICO exchange is listed in with the public key and the LSK amount they receive. This genesis block will be released shortly before launch, probably on 23rd. So that everyone can check if they are included correctly.

Please note that all non-validated accounts will be summarised in one single account. This way we can be 100% sure that everyone had his passphrase at least at one point of time (because he validated it). It's necessary so we can't be at fault at this point and people will lawyer up against us.

3. Our development team also needs to finalise the work on the final client Lisk v0.2.4. There are no major changes (in terms of core code) anymore, this way we can stay 100% sure that everything will work at launch.

4. Once we have the final v0.2.4/v0.3.0 client, Oliver will have to provide all the different binaries and docker version for it. We will have to add them to our download page on Lisk.io, do a cross-reading of all resources we have. (FAQ, Website, BTT Thread etc.) This way we will have a uniform web presence with up-to-date information.

5. We will also release several blog posts up to launch. The most important one for you being the guide on how to use the Lisk passphrase to access your LSK.

Many people asked for such a guide and we planned it all along. So stay tuned, it should appear at the latest by Monday on our blog.

Additionally, there is a lot more to do. A lot of small things which adds up to a huge work amount. We don't need to go into detail here. Above's are probably the main points of interest for you. 🙂

Marketing

The last point of the current work agenda point is *Marketing*. We are moving mountains to let everyone be aware of Lisk at launch.

With over 1600 users in the chat alone, and about the same unique visitors on our website today. I think we are succeeding. 🙂

We bought ads on CoinTelegraph and today I will buy some on CoinMarketCap as well. A dear Lisk supporter also bought advertisements on Reddit, I don't know who it is. However I want to thank him for that. 👍

I tried Facebook ads a lot with many different angles in the past. It doesn't work. It's money wasting. 🙂 Facebook ads are only good for bigger marketing budgets (what we have in the future) to create awareness in the subconsciousness.

PR work

We are working together with Transform.PR to get major media coverage. We have worked on a simple, but effective strategy for launch and post-launch.

1. Mainstream outlets for credibility. (I had several interviews with *big*, industry standard news outlets.)
2. Cryptocurrency outlets for publicity and momentum. (Also here I had several interviews with news outlets.) This industry is moving faster. So a lot will come next week here. We have very known friends, who will help us in that regard. 😉
3. Tech/Dev/IoT outlets will be taken care off after launch. They will bring blockchain apps and usability to Lisk.

Additionally to Transform.PR we also hired BitcoinPRBuzz to get us a lot of smaller coverages on several Bitcoin and Blockchain related news sites. E.g. criptonoticias, Bitcoinist, and so on. We paid them for 7 press releases, which will be constantly released every few days. So that there is always buzz around Lisk for the first 2-3 weeks after launch.

This is just an effort to keep Lisk in the media. 🙂 Transform.PR will bring us the big news, while BitcoinPRBuzz will bring us constant smaller news.

Ok guys, now to the last point of my agenda. To summarise it again:

- A few sentences about our Long Term Roadmap
- Apps in Development
- Development Plan
- Core Apps

A few sentences about our long term roadmap

I talked a lot with Oliver about our vision and where we want to go. We have a pretty clear vision in our head, which is not yet formulated on paper. We will release a vision paper a few weeks after launch.

One big feature in our head is that the network will also provide the necessary infrastructure for the blockchain applications. That means we probably will have some kind of a "Delegate Marketplace" in which every delegate can insert his node information and his price. And then the app developers can rent the delegate nodes on the market, to secure their sidechain and applicaiton. This way we can have thousands of delegates on the network, which will have a task. Due to the renting, they can earn money and a constant need of LSK is needed.

More about that and other important features in the vision paper in a few weeks. 🙂

Apps in development

I know of a few community members who are developing blockchain applications right now. I read and heard about online shops, decentralized trust platforms, games, gambling apps, and more. I don't want to announce anything for these users. It will probably also take some time after launch. I just want to let you know that there is app development going on. It will just take a few weeks or maybe even months to get to a point, at which our network has a handful of great applications with real use-cases.

The development of blockchain apps isn't hard, but it's something entirely new. That's why it takes some time to mature.

Development Plan

We will release the Lisk core client as a beta version at launch, and the Lisk app platform as an alpha version. The Lisk core client can be seen as stable at this point of time, however we didn't have much time to fix some issues occurring on the sidechains. These will be fixed and taken care off. But the Lisk app platform will remain a prototyping platform for apps until we get into a beta version for the Lisk app platform.

It won't be dramatically long. So don't worry. 🙂 We just want to make some necessary changes to the sidechains, which will allow us to be more flexible in the future.

One thing is to make it more modular, so that the consensus algorithm can be swapped out. E.g. if someone wants normal PoS or PoW, he can get it. Or if he wants to have a 1min block time, he should only change 1 parameter. For this we need to change some things. 🙂

You can expect that during the first 3 months after release we will put the biggest focus on security, scalability, and optimisation of the whole Lisk ecosystem.

Obviously we will also finish up the pre-launch items and work on other things, but as written above we want to get the perfect foundation to build on in the coming years.

After that we will start to work on new features, core apps, and so on. More details later.

Core ~D~Apps
They are still a thing, yes. The blog post need to be changed to our latest terminology changes though. 😛

Once we feel the sidechains are stable enough to build very reliable applications with, we will work on the core apps.

Quick explanation: Core apps are features built on top of Lisk with our App SDK. They can be created pretty fast, without wasting costly space on our main blockchain.

Core Apps in our focus at this moment are: Messaging, identity (username, name, email, and more), a karma system, and an app rating/commenting system.

Okay guys, you did it. I'm finished!

Lisk Community Q&A

I tried to get every question and answer, but there were a lot. If you really want all the information, head to the chat (channel: general) and read everything from 14:21 05/21/2016.

Q: what will our fee structure be for launch? dapp registration, delegate registration, etc?
A: We had the following numbers until now:

Delegate registration: 50
Dapp registration: 100

But! We feel that this may be too high now again, because of the huge success. Therefore we will reduce these numbers once again for launch. Maybe by half.

Q: Is there some news about OKcoin, poloniex or other exchanges?
A: I can't make any statements regarding exchanges. Unfortunately, today you won't get any information about that. Please wait for launch and the exchanges announcements. 🙂

Q: there will be a security standard for all delegate mainnet nodes (ddos protection, ssl,..)?
A: @liskfaucets: Sorry for the late answer. So it's impossible to declare such a standard in a decentralized environment (if we are not talking about protocol standards). We can't do anything, it's not really possible to check from the outside if the nodes are following known security practices.

Q: on the technical side, one thing I see as critical is having a trusted and verified DB snapshot available and updated on a daily basis. Is this in the works?
A: Yes, we are working on that. One reason 0.2.0 / 0.2.1 forked was the corrupt database snapshots. @isabella is working on a solution how we can prevent it. So yes, work-in-progress. For launch we heavily suggest to sync from 0 all the time. It will be very fast in the beginning anyway.

@redsn0w: Yes, in the beginning. That's why Isabella is working on the issue and solves it. I think a few weeks after launch it will be solved.

Q: The prices wont be auto-adjusted somewhow? Adjusting manually will be very inneficient i think.
A: Auto adjusting needs a reference point.

Q: i know right now DAO is a super trendy topic, but is there a DAO in Lisk's future?
A: @LSK In the future there will be something like a DAO very likely. 😉

Q: after start we will have PoS stage ? we must have only online wallets for in and coins on it ?
A: We will start with 101 genesis delegates and then the community can upvote their's and they will slowly replace ours. First week no delegate rewards.

Q: Any updates on IPFS?
A: @BlueStone: I will speak with IPFS in June in Berlin. Before that we will take a look at their white paper. After the meeting we can declare if it is in an usable state or not.

Q: @max: will it be possible to create apps (i.e. messaging) which are 100% free to use without the need to purchase any kind of lisk and/or tokens?
A: @haggis: Yes, this is possible. However the app dev needs to take care of that. (By setting the fee to 0, or implement another system) Be cautious of spam!

Q: @max: will it be a "live" launch or you will do genesis, and announce when network is up and running?
A: @vega: We will do the genesis, forge the first blocks. Check if everything is working correctly. Then announce it once it's stable. Maybe an hour after the first block created.

Q: @max Will you announce bounties for developers? I think that setting $1m aside for bounties would be a huge incentive for hundreds if not thousands of devs to flock to Lisk
A: @someonsomeone: Yes, we will announce bounties for developers. In the beginning these bounties will mainly consists of important features for the sidechains. E.g. a PoS/PoW consensus algorithm, integrating the EVM into it to execute Solidity smart contracts, or allow Bitcoin transactions within a sidechain. After some time we will then go to more "main stream" bounties, like "Create such an app and get XXXXX LSK".
 Nieuwe berichten Ga naar recente berichten

Q: For when a desktop wallet? It will be possible?
A: @jcmartinez: At launch there will be a desktop version for technical users. I hope we can quickly launch an 1-click full client then. Maybe a few weeks after launch. Non-technical users can use https://login.lisk.io to access their LSK at launch.

Q: @max will you release an overview of the budget? How much goes to developers/bounties/advertising/etc?
A: @liskfaucets: Starting with the launch, we will release monthly transparency reports. They will include how much we paid for the different sections like marketing development and so on.
@liskfaucets: Ok, I misunderstood the question. We may give a very rough estimation for every area. Maybe in the vision paper.
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Q: how many weight of the genesis delegates will have?
A: @redsn0w: No it isn't. We can offer a maximum of 15% to them. I think this won't be enough to keep them long in the top 101.

there is no way to control vote weight after mainnet launch. but there won't be any rewards until block 60,480

Q: @max: what do you expect, when can we catch ETH ? in what period of time ?
A: @lux-1: ETH has an enormous momentum going on for now. On the one hand it's good for us, because we are being pulled up by them as well. On the other hand it becomes harder to catch up to them.

I think once we took care of a few code related things, e.g. the delegate marketplace, we will have a much more refined version for normal users. So the potential will definitely be there in like 1 year. Please note, in my predictions I'm usually too generous with time frames. 😛

Q: @max: what do you expect, what will be the price on launch day?
A: @lux-1: I don't talk about the price. 🙂

Q: @max: The plan is for Lisk to find and recruit new developers for the Team?
It seems that hiring a SoftwareHouse would be a faster and more reliable way of doing it. Is this beeing considered?
A: @hmachado: I had some interviews with software houses. It doesn't make sense for us. We want people who burn for Lisk, who love Lisk. Lisk should become a family. We don't want to simply hire some 3rd party devs. Additionally, it's a lot more expensive.

Q: what about an internal exchange @max ? could it be possible? Blockchain app to trade (buy and sell lisk) directly on Lisk or also to lend lisk
A: @redsn0w: An internal exchange as a blockchain application would be very cool. At least BTC<->LSK. I think someone will definitely do it in the future. For this every sidechain node would have a Bitcoin SPV installed, I don't see a reason against that.

Q: @max: will there also be a part time position for open position "Designer - Full Time"
A: @jasmine: Yes and no. We just named it full-time. But it's actually not that much work. However the requirements for our designer are extremely high, I'm quite pedantic if it comes to design.

Q: @max ETH is on a roll but they still aren't anywhere near unreachable because at the moment it is just hype without much actual apps doing anything... That is why I think that Lisk should put a priority on getting some top shelf apps up and running
A: @someonsomeone: I agree. That's why we are polishing our sidechains ASAP, then beginn massive efforts for app development.

Seems like people don't have a lot of questions. Mainly speculation and trading. 😛 I hope this is a sign that our information politics are good.

Haha, as u say, that s a lot of IFs in one post.

+1 This is close to what I think will happen. No major BTC growth but still growth. Alts will probably also get lots of attention.

Good post! I didn't realise entry credits had a fixed price, and I agree that crypto time is accelerated to ridiculous extremes now where days feel like months in other industries. I consider myself a long term speculator, so I'm holding factoids for at least 1-2 years. I suppose anyone who doesn't day trade is thinking something similar now, hold until crypto is mainstream, then sell a % for a life changing return

crazyivan has a valid point, the interests of Factoid speculative holders is different to Factoid users now, so there is some conflict of interests here. I am a speculator too as I bought in the ico before everything was known, like everyone else, and I don't see myself using factoids anytime soon for their intended purpose. I want Factoids to moon so I make some returns, but the dev team probably don't care about that. Factoid users probaby want stable price.

i havent logged into bitcointalk in months...found better things to do with my time
but just checking in...cant believe this thread is alive still lol... not surprised
neucoin is dwindling away to nothing...supporters are still hoping.  hilarious!

Usage chart was updated with two new user application entries, Synapse and Aliyun. Looks like just a few test entries so far

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RUZLxxoAfT3C5jIJ144DLYdztYe_sqrKqbTlZuD05-s/edit#gid=445871101

What do I expect? I expect them to follow fucking deadlines. The deadline for M2 was Q1, that was 35 days ago. All we ve got since then is "just around the corner". The only reason why I ve got into Factom is cause the team sold me the story about honesty, hard work, innovations and dedication. For now, I see only empty promises and that stuff I ve seen with almost any other coin including Josh Homero Garza and his Paycoin. So pls, spare me just around the corner stuff and let me know when we re going to see M2.

Nothing personal but compared to Ether and the amount of work and project produced by their team, Factom s kindergarten. And yes, I am a competitive person, I like to see my own team wins.

To tell u the truth, that s my feeling exactly, that the team does not give a shit about Factom community. They needed us during the fund gathering phase but now final consumers are what they care about.

Yes, I d gladly sell now but the demand s so weak I dont want to crash the price and lose money. So I have to find another way.