Nice propaganda piece on the Chechen SF: A brief view of Chechen and LPR command center https://www.bitchute.com/video/92uEgNHBuJqQ/Prop or not, I wouldn't want to be going up against these guys...and neither do the Ukrainian Nazis apparently as evidenced by the mass surrender in Azovstal. Seems like the surrender was to the DPR who took over once the Chechens drove the Nazis underground, but the Nazis clearly preferred surrender to the prospect of meeting these folks in the tunnels. Some people just seem to love to fight, and the Chechens seem to be among them. Allah Akbar! However he managed it, Putin did good to get these people working for 'mother Russia' rather than against it. The real Chechens are fighting on the Ukrainian side: https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/tk67ss/chechens_from_sheikh_mansur_battalion_fighting/Stopped Rashists on the Zaporizhian front. Putin's Chechens are TikTok bloggers, 3rd line groups, mostly involved in clearing areas, robbing, raping, and torturing. |
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There is a saying in my locality that goes, 'in every nonsense, there is an atom of sense'. I'm bring that up due to the subject title.
A lot of users are likely not to fined a sense in the on going war and why Russia might choose to push it further but there are others especially Russian nations who feels its necessary that it continues. Dont get me wrong, I'm not in any way in support of the on going violence between both nations but I am just saying, both nation feels threatened and so, they fight.
Russia fears a future invasion by the west and so they fight while, Ukraine feels there sovereignty as a nation is being threatened and the destruction of life and property is been done on there land hence, there is a need for the war.
Unfortunately, the war would continue in both nations until both nations feels safe enough.
War is not happening in Russia, yet. But you might be right, eventually, it will continue there. |
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It scares me that you reached your pinnacle of cringe right on this topic. Person who yells WHATABOUTISM when i even slightly hint at a comparison (not a main rebuttal), blatantly doesn't answer a single direct question and just start discussing other people  surely the irony cannot be lost here [...] Osama bin Laden was also fighting Soviets before murdering innocent people (and was also sponsored by CIA), does that make him a controversial figure in your eyes as well? How about Osama bin Laden Avenue in Kyiv, it can run directly parallel to Stepana Bandery Avenue. No, it's still you bringing in unrelated shit into this thread. You brought up Bandera as one of the reasons Ukraine needs denazification ( correct me if I'm wrong). I responded as to why that's absurd. If you can't make a coherent argument that's not really my fault. The UPA's actions resulted in between 50,000 and 100,000 deaths...the killings were directly linked to the policies of Stepan Bandera's faction of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN-B) and its military arm [...] Controversial figure, right, something all of us could've done, just a silly mistake, perhaps wouldn't mind having an address on his street?  this is beyond atrocious! Not a fan of Stalin. Georgian' madman who indiscriminately killed his own people across all races/ethnicities (even his own Georgian republic suffered greatly "the exact number of Georgians executed during the Great Purges is not estimated, but some scholars suggest it varies from 30,000 to 60,000"). He did achieve his goal of rapidly industrializing USSR. I believe the argument largely comes from the cost/benefit analysis, where some people feel the loss of life is justified or couldn't be avoided under such circumstances. I tend to disagree and believe he went above and beyond on human suffering from what could be reasonably justified to industrialize USSR as quickly as possible. During the Soviet famine, percentage wise Kazakhs suffered the most 38 to 42 percent of all Kazakhs died from the famines during his rule. In absolute numbers including Russian famine of 1921–1922, the most died in Russia (~7mil). I surely wouldn't condone naming streets after him in 2016. Now any chance you could concede that the guy who did all the massacring and raping wasn't such a great guy and surely there must be other Ukrainian heroes who should get a street named after them? But still Bandera streets in Ukraine - bad, Ukraine needs denazifying. Stalin streets in Russia - nah, I just don't condone it. Sometimes I feel like your reading comprehension is on a 6th grade level. Let's try once again, I brought up Bandera because I came across CIA's operation Red Sox where in 1949 CIA also tried to back Ukrainian independence by sponsoring Bandera, and CIA operations chief flat out admits that they were sponsoring a group directly linked to Nazi atrocities, even worse they did the Nazi's 'dirty work' (Bandera). Everyone seem to agree that this guy massacred/tortured/rapped lots of people, yet Ukrainians felt that he was the most deserving from all Ukrainians to name a street in his honor in the capital of Kyiv in 2016. Now this is where i get confused, you claim that there are only few Nazis in Ukraine but no more than in any other capital ok, so if you'd say that some idiot somehow managed to find some loophole and rename a street in the city after the murderer but once people found out there were protests etc but for one reason or the other they cannot change it to someone more deserving, i'd understand. But you don't say that at all, what scares me is your allusions, changing topic to other people, and reluctance to condemn Bandera makes it sound like that's wasn't an error at all, and most people do in fact support a guy who massacred innocent people. Am i mistaken? Is Bandera a hero to you? Bandera is a Ukrainian national hero who fought for Ukrainian independence. He was against the Soviet invasion of Ukraine, a staunch anti- communist, nationalist but not a Nazi. He collaborated with the Germans, but later was arrested by them and imprisoned in the concentration camp. He was assassinated by the Russians. You support Russians who committed and are committing genocides and war crimes. Who executed people in Katyn? Santa Claus? Who killed innocent people across Europe during Soviet times? Russians did. So shut the fuck up about your support for these animals. Who killed innocent people across Europe? Easy, your hero Bandera. Here are some highlights: Stepan Bandera (1909-1959), head of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists that formed in 1929 as an amalgamation of movements including the Union of Ukrainian Fascists.[2][3] The union, known as OUN-B, had been engaged in various atrocities, including murder of civilians, most of whom were ethnic Poles.
...
These massacres resulted in the deaths of 80,000-100,000 Poles and 10,000-15,000 Ukrainians.
..
The OUN-B (Banderites) formed Ukrainian death squads that carried out pogroms and massacres both independently and with support from the Germans
...
To ensure maximum impact of the systematic ethnic cleansing campaign in the contested territory, OUN-B faction spread antisemitic, racist, and fascist propaganda among the ordinary peasants and other Ukrainians.
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Bandera wrote a manifesto entitled "Ukrainian National Revolution" that called for the annihilation of so-called ethnic enemies.
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included specific instructions about the killing of Jews, Poles, and Ukrainian opponents of fascism.
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OUN leaflets...read: "Exterminate the Poles, Jews and communists without mercy. Do not pity the enemies of the Ukrainian National Revolution!
...
The first pogrom took the lives of at least 4,000 Jews... and the "Petlura Days" massacre of more than 2,000 Polish Jews by the Ukrainian militants.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banderites Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists[1][2] (OUN), an organization responsible for ethnic cleansings also implicated in collaboration with Nazi Germany.
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largely responsible for the massacres of Polish civilians[28] and partially for the Holocaust in Ukraine.
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his organization, the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, was involved in a massacre of Poles in Volhynia and, in early 1944, ethnic cleansing also spread to Eastern Galicia. It is estimated that more than 35,000 and up to 60,000 Poles, mostly women and children along with unarmed men, were killed during the spring and summer campaign of 1943 in Volhynia, and up to 100,000 if other regions, such as Eastern Galicia, are included.[
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_BanderaGuy who was never even a citizen of Ukraine, kills 10k-15k Ukrainians (ignoring thousands of other women and children) that's your hero? Just cause he also killed Soviet people? To summarize: - 1929 Bandera joined OUN
- 1931 becoming the chief propaganda officer of the OUN
- June 1933 became head of the OUN national executive
- June 1934 assassination of Poland's Minister of the Interior Bronisław Pieracki. convicted of terrorism and sentenced to death but the sentence was commuted to life imprisonment in Poland
- 1 Sep 1939 Germany Invades Poland.
- Sept 1934 Bandera is freed from prison, moves to German-occupied zone of Poland offers his services to Nazi Germany in exchange for ongoing financial and logistical support.
- Sept 1934 recruited before Operation Barbarossa during World War II into the Nazi Germany military intelligence Abwehr for espionage, counter-espionage and sabotage.
- 22 June 1941 Nazi Germany invades Soviet Union
- 5 July 1941 Bandera is arrested in Germany
- 14 July 1941 After 9 days released from custody was required to stay in Berlin
- Jan 1942 Bandera was transferred to Sachsenhausen concentration camp's special barrack for high-profile political prisoners Zellenbau but kept in special, comparatively comfortable detention
- Sep 1944 with Germany rapidly losing ground in the war in the face of the advancing Allied armies, Bandera was released and settles with his family in West Germany
- 1946 OUN-B was re-formed in under the sponsorship of MI6. Organization had been receiving some support from MI6 since the 1930s. One faction of Bandera's organization...became more closely associated with the CIA
- Some American intelligence reported that he even was guarded by former SS men.
- Bandera reached an agreement with the BND, offering them his service, despite CIA warning the West Germans against cooperating with him.
- 1959 Bandera was assassinated in 1959 by KGB agents in Munich.
- 22 January 2010 President of Ukraine Viktor Yushchenko awarded Bandera the posthumous title of Hero of Ukraine.
Let's reiterate where everyone stands. On one side we have: Russia Israel Germany - condemning crimes committed by the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, in part under the leadership of Bandera, especially against civilians Poland - declared Volhynia a genocide, and doesn't even allow cars with OUN (red black flag) stickers to enter Poland  EU - Deeply deplores ... to award Stepan Bandera, a leader of the Organisation of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) which collaborated with Nazi Germany, the title of ‘National Hero of Ukraine’; hopes, in this regard, that the new Ukrainian leadership will reconsider such decisions and will maintain its commitment to European values;And on another side we have: Ukrainian neo-Nazis and YOU Right, so we all got your stance on Bandera. A follow up question, how do you feel about Hitler, he also fought against Soviets, so is he a hero to you too? You dipshit. I am not Ukrainian. Read my post. Bandera is a Ukrainian hero and always will be because he fought for the independence of Ukraine. What Russia did to all of Eastern Europe/Caucasus/Siberia over the years is not forgivable. They are animals. The current Z-ombification of Russia should be of concern to any sane human being. The Z Russians today are ready to commit genocides without thinking twice about it. All this de-Nazification nonsense is for idiots like you. It is to turn away your attention from the fact that Z Russians are NaZZZis. Ukrainians are killing Russians because the Russians invaded their country. Russians are killing Ukrainians because they are Ukrainians.BTW, can you list the mass killings of civilians committed by Ukrainians since 1991? Who is the Nazi now? LOL. So from all of the facts that i provided that Bandera is a world wide condemned massacrist, your best rebuttal is that's he's still a hero just because he fought for the independence of Ukraine, as if that somehow negates all the murdering of innocent women and children as well as ethnic cleansings I accept your switch to personal attacks as indication that you ran out of any coherent arguments and a total capitulation on said topic. I really hope that you're in minority, my next goal is to try and estimate how many Ukrainians actually approve of the massacres and see Bandera as a hero Bandera was not near the massacres in Volhynia. You are attributing these atrocities to him instead of Mykola Lebed because you are a zombie who can only consume pro-Russian propaganda. Bandera was in the concentration camp when these atrocities were carried out. I don't think you will find many Ukrainians today who would approve of the massacres of Poles during WWII. Of course, what happened was deliberate, brutal ethnic cleansing. You will not find many Ukrainians today who are for the extermination of ethnic groups in Ukraine or elsewhere. That is just insane to suggest that the WWII massacres are somehow related to the invasion of Crimea and Donbas by Russia in 2014. But on the other hand, Russian soldiers and Rosguardia have been given direct orders to annihilate the Ukrainian nation. If you are truly against ethnic cleansing, you would be against Russians committing war crimes in Ukraine. You would be against this war. Instead, you are supporting a genocidal maniac who turned Russians into Z-ombies who think that bombing schools, hospitals, and civilian infrastructure somehow makes Russia great again and is just. All because Ukrainians consider Bandera their national hero? That is just insane. But I repeat myself. That wedge that Russians were always trying to stick between Poles and Ukrainians will not work. Polish people hosted millions of Ukrainians fleeing Russian tanks in THEIR homes. Here is the Polish president talking about the Polish-Ukrainian relations, current and past: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rpaz22R2WBwRussians lost the social media war, lost the economic and political wars, and soon they will lose the military war. |
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Why Russia isn't using it's full force in Ukraine ?
I think the short answer would be that Ukraine is too close to Russia for Russia to even consider using it's most deadly weapons on them. Sure, Russia could nuke Ukraine off the planet, but it would certainly have side effects for their own home as radiation would surely have side effects on their citizens. Not to mention they would absolutely destroy the land they're trying to take. It would make no sense whatsoever. This isn't even touching on the response from other countries. has Russia achieved what they wanted to achieve? If yes -then there is no need to put bombs on innocent civilians. The war is not the solution - it has to stop no matter what. Russia's plan is simple. To kill any anti-Russian opposition in Ukraine and annex its territories to Russia. Then Russify the Ukrainian lands and erase all Ukrainian culture from the annexed territories. In two words, establish: "Russian Peace" or "Russkiy Mir". |
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territory of the DPR territory of the LPR The OSCE report doesn't say DPR or LPR (it says Donetsk and Lugansk regions) and it doesn't say which side violated the cease fire. Topic moved to another section? Then I will answer. The links in the OSCE reports also contain a link to the full version of the PDF with a map showing the places where the ceasefire was violated. From these maps, you can easily understand which side violated the ceasefire. Nor should it matter to Russia, because all of this happened not in Russian territory.
Perhaps this was not important until February 22, when Putin signed the Laws on the ratification of treaties on friendship, cooperation and partnership between the Russian Federation and the republics of the DPR and LPR. However: February 22, 2022 332 explosions in the territory of the DPR, 703 violations of the ceasefire, 1224 explosions in the territory of the LPR, 1224 population of the ceasefire // Report No. 41/2022, OSCEFebruary 23, 2022 345 explosions in the territory of the DPR, 528 ceasefire violations, 1075 explosions in the territory of the LPR, 1182 ceasefire violations // Report No. 42/2022, OSCESimply put, Ukraine shelled Donetsk from Grad February 22, 2022. Even if the direct double casus belli that I mentioned above is not enough for you, this is an indirect casus belli, when Ukraine attacked independent states that have an agreement on friendship and military protection with Russia. Russia regards such an attack as an attack on itself. Russia immediately responded to such a manifestation of military aggression from Ukraine by launching a military special operation. Since February 21, the war in Donbas has ceased to be an internal affair of Ukraine, and since February 22, it has become a matter for Russia as well. Russia broke international law by invading Donbas and Crimea in 2014. Since then they have committed genocide against the Ukrainian people. Since Feb 24, 2022, they intensified their genocidal actions. The whole world will stop them. First in Ukraine, then in Russia, and all Russian-occupied territories since the 1500s. Free Caucasus, Komi, Yakutia, and other non-Russian territories!!! |
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It scares me that you reached your pinnacle of cringe right on this topic. Person who yells WHATABOUTISM when i even slightly hint at a comparison (not a main rebuttal), blatantly doesn't answer a single direct question and just start discussing other people surely the irony cannot be lost here [...] Osama bin Laden was also fighting Soviets before murdering innocent people (and was also sponsored by CIA), does that make him a controversial figure in your eyes as well? How about Osama bin Laden Avenue in Kyiv, it can run directly parallel to Stepana Bandery Avenue. No, it's still you bringing in unrelated shit into this thread. You brought up Bandera as one of the reasons Ukraine needs denazification ( correct me if I'm wrong). I responded as to why that's absurd. If you can't make a coherent argument that's not really my fault. The UPA's actions resulted in between 50,000 and 100,000 deaths...the killings were directly linked to the policies of Stepan Bandera's faction of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN-B) and its military arm [...] Controversial figure, right, something all of us could've done, just a silly mistake, perhaps wouldn't mind having an address on his street? this is beyond atrocious! Not a fan of Stalin. Georgian' madman who indiscriminately killed his own people across all races/ethnicities (even his own Georgian republic suffered greatly "the exact number of Georgians executed during the Great Purges is not estimated, but some scholars suggest it varies from 30,000 to 60,000"). He did achieve his goal of rapidly industrializing USSR. I believe the argument largely comes from the cost/benefit analysis, where some people feel the loss of life is justified or couldn't be avoided under such circumstances. I tend to disagree and believe he went above and beyond on human suffering from what could be reasonably justified to industrialize USSR as quickly as possible. During the Soviet famine, percentage wise Kazakhs suffered the most 38 to 42 percent of all Kazakhs died from the famines during his rule. In absolute numbers including Russian famine of 1921–1922, the most died in Russia (~7mil). I surely wouldn't condone naming streets after him in 2016. Now any chance you could concede that the guy who did all the massacring and raping wasn't such a great guy and surely there must be other Ukrainian heroes who should get a street named after them? But still Bandera streets in Ukraine - bad, Ukraine needs denazifying. Stalin streets in Russia - nah, I just don't condone it. Sometimes I feel like your reading comprehension is on a 6th grade level. Let's try once again, I brought up Bandera because I came across CIA's operation Red Sox where in 1949 CIA also tried to back Ukrainian independence by sponsoring Bandera, and CIA operations chief flat out admits that they were sponsoring a group directly linked to Nazi atrocities, even worse they did the Nazi's 'dirty work' (Bandera). Everyone seem to agree that this guy massacred/tortured/rapped lots of people, yet Ukrainians felt that he was the most deserving from all Ukrainians to name a street in his honor in the capital of Kyiv in 2016. Now this is where i get confused, you claim that there are only few Nazis in Ukraine but no more than in any other capital ok, so if you'd say that some idiot somehow managed to find some loophole and rename a street in the city after the murderer but once people found out there were protests etc but for one reason or the other they cannot change it to someone more deserving, i'd understand. But you don't say that at all, what scares me is your allusions, changing topic to other people, and reluctance to condemn Bandera makes it sound like that's wasn't an error at all, and most people do in fact support a guy who massacred innocent people. Am i mistaken? Is Bandera a hero to you? Bandera is a Ukrainian national hero who fought for Ukrainian independence. He was against the Soviet invasion of Ukraine, a staunch anti- communist, nationalist but not a Nazi. He collaborated with the Germans, but later was arrested by them and imprisoned in the concentration camp. He was assassinated by the Russians. You support Russians who committed and are committing genocides and war crimes. Who executed people in Katyn? Santa Claus? Who killed innocent people across Europe during Soviet times? Russians did. So shut the fuck up about your support for these animals. Who killed innocent people across Europe? Easy, your hero Bandera. Here are some highlights: Stepan Bandera (1909-1959), head of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists that formed in 1929 as an amalgamation of movements including the Union of Ukrainian Fascists.[2][3] The union, known as OUN-B, had been engaged in various atrocities, including murder of civilians, most of whom were ethnic Poles.
...
These massacres resulted in the deaths of 80,000-100,000 Poles and 10,000-15,000 Ukrainians.
..
The OUN-B (Banderites) formed Ukrainian death squads that carried out pogroms and massacres both independently and with support from the Germans
...
To ensure maximum impact of the systematic ethnic cleansing campaign in the contested territory, OUN-B faction spread antisemitic, racist, and fascist propaganda among the ordinary peasants and other Ukrainians.
...
Bandera wrote a manifesto entitled "Ukrainian National Revolution" that called for the annihilation of so-called ethnic enemies.
...
included specific instructions about the killing of Jews, Poles, and Ukrainian opponents of fascism.
...
OUN leaflets...read: "Exterminate the Poles, Jews and communists without mercy. Do not pity the enemies of the Ukrainian National Revolution!
...
The first pogrom took the lives of at least 4,000 Jews... and the "Petlura Days" massacre of more than 2,000 Polish Jews by the Ukrainian militants.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banderites Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists[1][2] (OUN), an organization responsible for ethnic cleansings also implicated in collaboration with Nazi Germany.
...
largely responsible for the massacres of Polish civilians[28] and partially for the Holocaust in Ukraine.
...
his organization, the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, was involved in a massacre of Poles in Volhynia and, in early 1944, ethnic cleansing also spread to Eastern Galicia. It is estimated that more than 35,000 and up to 60,000 Poles, mostly women and children along with unarmed men, were killed during the spring and summer campaign of 1943 in Volhynia, and up to 100,000 if other regions, such as Eastern Galicia, are included.[
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_BanderaGuy who was never even a citizen of Ukraine, kills 10k-15k Ukrainians (ignoring thousands of other women and children) that's your hero? Just cause he also killed Soviet people? To summarize: - 1929 Bandera joined OUN
- 1931 becoming the chief propaganda officer of the OUN
- June 1933 became head of the OUN national executive
- June 1934 assassination of Poland's Minister of the Interior Bronisław Pieracki. convicted of terrorism and sentenced to death but the sentence was commuted to life imprisonment in Poland
- 1 Sep 1939 Germany Invades Poland.
- Sept 1934 Bandera is freed from prison, moves to German-occupied zone of Poland offers his services to Nazi Germany in exchange for ongoing financial and logistical support.
- Sept 1934 recruited before Operation Barbarossa during World War II into the Nazi Germany military intelligence Abwehr for espionage, counter-espionage and sabotage.
- 22 June 1941 Nazi Germany invades Soviet Union
- 5 July 1941 Bandera is arrested in Germany
- 14 July 1941 After 9 days released from custody was required to stay in Berlin
- Jan 1942 Bandera was transferred to Sachsenhausen concentration camp's special barrack for high-profile political prisoners Zellenbau but kept in special, comparatively comfortable detention
- Sep 1944 with Germany rapidly losing ground in the war in the face of the advancing Allied armies, Bandera was released and settles with his family in West Germany
- 1946 OUN-B was re-formed in under the sponsorship of MI6. Organization had been receiving some support from MI6 since the 1930s. One faction of Bandera's organization...became more closely associated with the CIA
- Some American intelligence reported that he even was guarded by former SS men.
- Bandera reached an agreement with the BND, offering them his service, despite CIA warning the West Germans against cooperating with him.
- 1959 Bandera was assassinated in 1959 by KGB agents in Munich.
- 22 January 2010 President of Ukraine Viktor Yushchenko awarded Bandera the posthumous title of Hero of Ukraine.
Let's reiterate where everyone stands. On one side we have: Russia Israel Germany - condemning crimes committed by the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, in part under the leadership of Bandera, especially against civilians Poland - declared Volhynia a genocide, and doesn't even allow cars with OUN (red black flag) stickers to enter Poland EU - Deeply deplores ... to award Stepan Bandera, a leader of the Organisation of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) which collaborated with Nazi Germany, the title of ‘National Hero of Ukraine’; hopes, in this regard, that the new Ukrainian leadership will reconsider such decisions and will maintain its commitment to European values;And on another side we have: Ukrainian neo-Nazis and YOU Right, so we all got your stance on Bandera. A follow up question, how do you feel about Hitler, he also fought against Soviets, so is he a hero to you too? You dipshit. I am not Ukrainian. Read my post. Bandera is a Ukrainian hero and always will be because he fought for the independence of Ukraine. What Russia did to all of Eastern Europe/Caucasus/Siberia over the years is not forgivable. They are animals. The current Z-ombification of Russia should be of concern to any sane human being. The Z Russians today are ready to commit genocides without thinking twice about it. All this de-Nazification nonsense is for idiots like you. It is to turn away your attention from the fact that Z Russians are NaZZZis. Ukrainians are killing Russians because the Russians invaded their country. Russians are killing Ukrainians because they are Ukrainians.BTW, can you list the mass killings of civilians committed by Ukrainians since 1991? Who is the Nazi now? LOL. |
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Anyone in Ukraine providing material support to Russia should be killed. They became combatants on Feb 24th, 2022.
Anyone in Ukraine with pro-Russian views will be considered an enemy. Most likely these people will be stripped
of their Ukrainian citizenship and will have to leave Ukraine.
Thanks, af_newbie. I had always guessed you wanted to take freedom away from people - freedom of speech and freedom to live their lives. But now that you admit it, it will be so much easier to classify you as a Nazi.  Yes, I would take away your freedom to rape, murder, torture, and level cities. You have some twisted moral standard. But I will never understand your Bronze Age morality, so I am not going to try. I am not sure you can even comprehend what is happening. Russians are the terrorists here, always were, and I am afraid always will be. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQe8GcrQy-UThe Nazis of the 1940s would be offended for guys like you calling people like me a Nazi. |
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Your loaded question on "rusophobia" aside, "examples of" is not equal to a widespread adoption of nazi ideology. Nazi/fascist elements can be found in any society that has a certain degree of freedom of speech. Only a few countries - Russia is among them, Ukraine is not - have adopted fascism as a policy.
 SourceStop engaging in demagogy. The Ukrainian Azov Battalion was recognized as a neo-Nazi group by the US Congress. 40 congressmen wanted it to be also considered a terrorist entity, but this initiative didn't pass then. Azov is officially part of the National Guard of Ukraine. What other countries have Nazis officially in the army, if you know of such examples? You refuse to acknowledge the obvious. In Ukraine, civil servants (SBU - possibly like those who wear SS patches) killed their negotiator because they thought he supported pro-Russian views, and you just brush it off, like this is all nonsense and Putin propaganda. From the 2nd minute of this video, SBU officer Vyacheslav Shevchuk recalled the mayor of Kremenny Vladimir Struk, who was waiting for the "Russian peace" and who was later found shot dead with a bag on his head. From 3 minutes 40 seconds, an SBU officer tells how six citizens were executed "without trial or investigation" accused of complicity with the Russian army, that they allegedly set up beacons. Some users may say that these are cruel wartime laws. And if, under the guise of traitors, objectionable people are thus eliminated? Because without a trial they can accuse any person of betrayal and immediately shoot him. Ukrainian President Zelensky calls it "normal and cool" that some Ukrainians consider the Nazi Stepan Bandera a national hero. Zelensky's adviser, Mikhail Podolyak, says that in the south-eastern regions of Ukraine they should clear the land from collaborators and forget the word "Russian". Is it worth recalling that millions of Russian-speaking people live in these areas? Do you have any idea what will happen to them when the armed Ukrainian nationalists get there? Most likely, much worse than what happened in Donbass in 2014-2021, when 14,000 people died. Mikhail Podolyak: "For me, it's important that we liberate the Kherson region,
and as harshly as possible for both collaborators and the Russian military.
We need the waters of the Sea of Azov.
I am in favor of forgetting the word "Russians" in the Kharkiv region.
I am in favor of forgetting the word "Russians" in the Luhansk and Donetsk regions
and that the criminal elements who call themselves the authorities should not be there physically.
Lyudmila Denisova
This is the same lady who claims that Russian soldiers rape Ukrainian women on Putin's orders. Do you unquestioningly believe her, even if her statements about child abuse contradict the Ukrainian Prosecutor General's Office? Lyudmila Denisova: "The background is that they want to make it impossible for women to ever be able or want to have children again.
This is clear genocide. The soldiers rely on Putin's orders to destroy the entire country".
... Men and children are also raped. A mother was tied to a chair while her 11-year-old son was abused for 10 hours.
The 45-year-old man barely survived when he came out of his hiding place to fetch water.
They tortured and raped him. One of those occupiers who raped Ukrainian women is in the photo. This is Bulat Lenarovych FASSAKHOV, born on November 20, 2001.
If he is guilty, he should be punished, better in Ukraine. There are hundreds of reports on the network about the atrocities of Russian soldiers. How many criminal cases have been opened and criminals named so far? None of the normal person will protect them. Ukrainian law enforcement agencies are required to publish complete information so that the thieves and rapists become known in Russia. The Russian military also caught a Ukrainian rapist in Mariupol in April 2022. This is the deputy commander of the fire support company of the military unit A-2777, senior lieutenant Sergei Batynsky. He raped a woman at gunpoint and killed her husband. Nonsense sounds like a correct description of what you're doing here. Again, going out of your way to find some minor, possibly out-of-context, tangential detail and ignoring actual facts.
You often quote American and English magazines, apparently considering them indisputable authoritative sources, to accuse Russia. Even the most famous newspaper is not a judicial department to accuse anyone, because there is such a thing as "presumption of innocence". Remember this definition? The United States is the main sponsor of Ukraine's military operations and is the most active on its side, and it is unlikely that there are large independent magazines anywhere in the world that are completely outside the control of governments. For prosecution, an international independent investigation must first be carried out. I and any adequate person will not defend criminals, no matter what country they belong to, if their guilt is proven in an independent court. Articles in an American, English, German and any other newspaper can serve as an additional source of information, but in no way can be evidence of a serious crime, especially now, during the open information war between the countries of the West and Russia.
Silver lining to dictator cracking down on dissent is the creative ways to protest. Like switching price tags in the grocery store, or hacking the TV guide:  Just warn people that a woman who is accused of changing the price tag in a store now faces up to 10 years in a Russian prison. This is an illusion, and a very dangerous one for all parties. Ukraine will not be able to regain Crimea under any circumstances, since Russia's nuclear doctrine states that it will use nuclear weapons if the Kremlin decides that the existence of the state will be threatened. Ukraine is preparing to extend the mobilization, the territorial defense is being sent to the front, criminals are being released from prisons so that they go to war. Whereas Russia has involved so far 15% of the total Russian army (150,000 out of 1 million). In Russia, you don't even need to declare mobilization, as there are unused contract soldiers, volunteers who fully support Putin's policies, and militant citizens with combat experience who want to go to the front. - This conflict will drag on because the act of surrender and the surrender of several regions will mean a death sentence for Zelensky. If he admits defeat, he will be executed by his own nationalists, as was the case with one of the Ukrainian negotiators, therefore Zelensky puts conditions that are impossible for Russia to fulfill, he will negotiate only if Donbass, Crimea and the Kherson region are given to Ukraine. - Russia will not give up these territories and will continue the offensive. If the Russian command feels that they will not be able to win this war, then they can use nuclear weapons, since for it the retreat and loss of territories is comparable to self-destruction. After admitting defeat, Russia will be in a much worse position than it is now, under > 10,000 sanctions. Even those who were neutral will turn away from her, and, most likely, a civil war will begin in the country, since the Russian population will not forgive such a result to their government. Therefore, the issue of victory is a matter of survival for Russia, it cannot simply turn back. - The US views Ukraine as its own important strategic and economic asset. The US government has invested tens of billions of dollars in Ukraine, for years prepared Ukraine for resistance to Russia, pumped it up with weapons and most likely US doesn't want to give Russia the giant shale gas deposits in the Donbass. Anyone in Ukraine providing material support to Russia should be killed. They became combatants on Feb 24th, 2022. Anyone in Ukraine with pro-Russian views will be considered an enemy. Most likely these people will be stripped of their Ukrainian citizenship and will have to leave Ukraine. |
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There is no political influence or wide public support for nazi ideology.
In your opinion, Russophobia and calls for the extermination of Russians is not a kind of Nazi ideology? Here are some examples of Russophobia in Ukraine. 1. Ukrainian schoolchildren shout in 2013 that Russians should be hanged - "Mocкaлякy нa гиллякy - xтo нe cкaчe тoй мocкaль!" By the way, their jumps with Nazi chants is very similar to the Austrians in 1938. 2. Kyiv youth shouting the Nazi anthem in 2016, calling for the killing of Russians. Here is the text of this anthem in Ukrainian: Жoвтo-блaкитнi нaшi пpaпopи
Mи нeпepeмoжнi, шaблi дoгopи
Бyдe Укpaїнa вiльнa, бyдe Heнькa caмocтiйнa
Гeй мocкaлiв нa нoжi, нa нoжi!
Бaтькo Пeтлюpa щe дo нac пpийдe
Biн зa Укpaїнy вcix нac пoвeдe
Бyдe Укpaїнa вiльнa, бyдe Heнькa caмocтiйнa
Гeй мocкaлiв нa нoжi, нa нoжi!
Hexaй Mocквa лeжить в pyїнax
A нaм нa цe нaчxaти
Зa нaми вcя вeликa Укpaїнa
I ми пpишли вecь cвiт зaвoювaти!
Cмepть, cмepть мocкaлям!
Cлaвa Укpaїнi! Гepoям cлaвa!
Cлaвa нaцiї! Cмepть вopoгaм!
Укpaїнa пoнaд yce!
3. A Ukrainian TV presenter quotes an SS officer and threatens to kill Russian children. 4. Ukrainian soldier says that the Russian nation must be destroyed. 5. The mayor of the Ukrainian city of Dnepropetrovsk Boris Filatov in April 2022 called for the killing of Russians around the world. 6. In Ukrainian Telegram chats they mock and insult the Soviet 18-year-old partisan, who was tortured and hanged by the German Nazis during the Second World War, and the monument in her honor is being demolished. You can read the information about this girl on Wikipedia. 7. Ukrainian textbooks say that the ancestors of the French, Portuguese, Spaniards, Turks and even Jews came from Ukrainian Galicia, that Ukrainians are almost the oldest nation, and Russians are not even Slavs, but Finno-Ugric peoples.
Being anti-Russian because Russian military is raping and killing its way through their country doesn't make Ukrainians nazis. etc.
About the rapes. There were many reports in Ukrainian news resources about the rapes of Ukrainian children by Russian soldiers (examples: 1, 2, 3). However, on May 11, 2022, the Commissioner of the President of Ukraine for Children's Rights, Daria Gerasimchuk, stated other information: 01:08:44 BELSAT NEWS host: "There were reports in the press that children were victims of violence by the Russian occupiers. Do you have any data that could confirm this?" 01:08:56 Daria Gerasimchuk: "Today, the Prosecutor General's Office of Ukraine doesn't have a single confirmed fact of violence ... yet. Most likely, because people are not ready to report it. Therefore, the data to which everyone is now appealing, then, there were such cases, most likely. That is, the Prosecutor General of Ukraine has no facts of such violence, but according to rumors have there been such cases? This is nonsense, because these are empty accusations of terrible crimes, not based on facts. Doesn't it seem strange to you that many people are ready to talk to journalists about inhuman cases of violence against themselves, but at the same time refuse to report to law enforcement agencies so that criminal cases can be opened? I may be wrong, but even if the victim refuses to testify, if there is evidence, the police still open a criminal case.
Who executed people in Katyn? Santa Claus? Who killed innocent people across Europe during Soviet times?
Russians did. So shut the fuck up about your support for these animals.
All this pales in comparison with what the Russians did to the whole of Eastern Europe during and after the second war.
Millions of civilians were KILLED, RAPED, and TORTURED by the Russians.
Perhaps you didn't know, but actually Russians and Ukrainians fought as part of the Soviet army against Germany and its allies. Therefore, when you accuse the Russians of war crimes during the Second World War, you accuse the Ukrainians along with them. Further. As you say, *the Russians* were guilty of all these crimes during the Second World War, then why did the allies of the USSR (the Americans, the British and the French) keep silent about that during the Nuremberg Trial? Do you think they covered up criminals? Then they are also to blame. Then why are you silent about their complicity? They are calling for genocide on their national TV and get applause from the audience.
86% of Russians are in favor of the complete annihilation of Ukrainian culture. They want them gone.
It looks like fake. Provide a link to the source, please. You either do not know or are completely ignorant of how the Russian (Soviet) system of government works. Who the fuck do you think you are? My family lived through Russian Mir in multiple countries. Do you think I do not know who served under the Red Army? Perhaps you do not know what the Red Army did in WWII? Perhaps you do not know what the Russians did to Baltic countries, Poland, Belarus, and Ukraine during the Russian Empire and the Soviet times. Perhaps you do not know what Russians did in the occupied USSR republics and the Warsaw 'pact' countries? Talk to people who lived through this before you open your mouth and start defending Russians. Russians are the scum of the Earth, everywhere they go they bring death, violence, and misery. |
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Bernie Sanders spoke about the same scenario of USA many years back, and they responded in similar fashion. This war with Ukraine has been for a while but not this wide and destructive. Nato was the main cause of the war but it is still at intending state for Ukraine, Since NATO has response soft on acceptance everyone was angry on the bullish approach of Putin. After Putin has expended a large portion of it militia and failed to achieve his aim, I think it could be a good time to make him realize if they come in to settle it.
NATO's soft response will exist until Hunter Biden and his crew suck all the money out of Ukrainian bio-lab research that they can get. Putin is simply helping the honest people of the US by trying to shut down the Ukraine and the essentially illegal bio-labs research... research, BTW, that is making Hunter and Joe a lot of money under the table. https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=hunter+biden%27s+ukraine+connection&ia=webWhat is illegal about bio-research? |
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Bandera is a Ukrainian national hero who fought for Ukrainian independence. He was against the Soviet invasion of Ukraine, a staunch anti-
communist, nationalist but not a Nazi.
Many nationalists worship bandera in Ukraine today and yes he was a nazi collaborator and war criminal who murdered Jews and other ethnic minorities. https://republicadomundo.blogspot.com/2014/06/os-crimes-de-stepan-bandera-heroi-dos.htmlStepan Bandera (center)  "Other ethnic communities in Ukraine suffered as well. Bandera’s ‘kill order’ of 1941 urged Ukrainians to murder Jews, Poles, Hungarians, Russians and fellow Ukrainians, all described as ‘Muscovites’." https://www.australianjewishnews.com/looking-back-on-ukrainian-crimes-in-horror/https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-rjl9IThfEto/U5SW3o8jLrI/AAAAAAAACeM/t-B_NqnHPlk/s1600/8.jpg Memorial plaque in Lviv in memory of Yuriy Polyansky says that he was geographer, but doesn’t say a single word that he was Nazi Burgermeister in Lviv with Jewish pogroms, murder of Polish intelligentsia, Yudenrat, Ukrainian https://preview.redd.it/sm4gxf03p2851.jpg?width=482&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9812e990cd69b229d40d65ef1bee190293384c5bPolyansky welcomes Hans Frank https://preview.redd.it/0mv50mh5p2851.jpg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=006720e1402ef9dbec9f3df7a524a6fbaee9a02bUkrainian Parliament adopted a resolution to celebrate 120th anniversary of Volodymyr Kubiyovych, Nazi collaborator and founder of Ukrainian Waffen SS Division Galizia. Kubiyovych (1943) https://preview.redd.it/rgfou4p9p2851.jpg?width=496&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=def66fd42f6104618841444f34889e87abc54c43Memorial sign in honor of Ukrainian nationalist Mykhaylo Kolodzinsky. He wrote: «The anger of Ukrainians against Jews will especially be terrible. We should not calm down this anger, but to strengthen it. The more Jews will die during uprising, the better for Ukrainian state” https://preview.redd.it/qzl8b30dp2851.jpg?width=535&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8a62798826c2a933b76542599a98492a7f801ec8Honorary citizen of town Dolyna Kazimir Yavorsky - Ukrainian nationalist, officer of Nazi Nachtigall Battalion and 201st Shutzmannshaft Battalion, took part in Lviv pogrom, mass murders of Jews and Poles as officer of UPA. Memorial cross in his honor https://preview.redd.it/zynu7tvfp2851.jpg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c8da256eab349d6af069893ee21ba8c93161acf7Monument to Oleksa Gasin - Ukrainian nationalist and war criminal who heavily participated in the Jewish pogroms in Lviv and other places in West Ukraine. As top officer of Ukrainian Insurgent Army organizer and perpetrator of mass murder of many thousand innocent ethnic Poles https://preview.redd.it/pkmoxhmip2851.jpg?width=596&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=55552836fdb612037a6df5e8e21c142ab0f308daA memorial plaque to organizers and perpetrators of the Jewish pogrom in July of 1941 in which 300 innocent Jews were brutally killed in Drogobych, Ukraine https://preview.redd.it/xmxqkbwkp2851.jpg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=19fd092e4c058170dac8e94597392490e2691636A monument to Grygory Shklyanka, Nazi collaborator and a war criminal from Ukrainian Auxiliary Police Batallion. Shklyanka participated in the mass murder of Jews and later in mass killings of Poles as UPA officer. A street in his native village was renamed after him https://preview.redd.it/t9puz6onp2851.jpg?width=576&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3329043e8bc39d2059b9c90d8b06e2378ef70ddeMemorial plaque in honor of Nazi war criminal Stepan Burdyn - officer of Nazi Nachtigall batallion and 201st Schutzmannshaft Batallion where he participated in the mass murders of Jews in Holocaust and atrocities against civil polulation https://preview.redd.it/co4ou3hqp2851.jpg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1af2ee8c93a8f0ac2bbf5bb7ccd24cb4f585143bMonument to Ukrainian nationalist and Nazi collaborator Volodymyr Yakubovskiy - perpetrator of Jewish pogroms and mass murder of about 1 thousand innocent Jewish men, women and children in Zaloscie near Ternopol and murderer of many Poles later in UPA https://preview.redd.it/atymxmcyp2851.jpg?width=541&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bfb4c9631e6879350e195b772da65b0b2aef532bStepan Bandera Footbal Club in Paris made up of Ukrainians living in France. Stepan Bandera - wartime leader of Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists that heavily participated in the Holocaust, perpetrator of the mass murder of more than 100,000 peaceful ethnic Poles in 1943-44 https://preview.redd.it/19a61953q2851.jpg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c5fe3d489c628b52765986b56467f0fbf02ba4b7Monument to murderers of Jews in Niemirów - members of Auxillary Police and UPA. On June 22, 1944 they were publicly hanged by Soviet Army for committing terrible crimes and mass murder of 2, 000 Jews. Now the same murderers are praised as fighters for Ukraine and victims of oppression https://preview.redd.it/4h1kl857q2851.jpg?width=460&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2d5f99921bc74c4a2c9492ef7a256ee596035948Ukrainian nationalist march in July of 1941 before Nazis and local OUN leaders https://preview.redd.it/ygjmm7gso2851.jpg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be9f26d97dfcb8a12440126b84c676ad80220a72Mykola Lebed, the OUN’s Head of Security. Lebed (Russian for “Swan”) had been convicted of Pieracki’s assassination in 1934. This violent man was let out of jail when the Germans invaded Poland in 1939. Lebed is considered directly responsible for the Volhynia Massacres of 1943, a planned genocide directed primarily against ethnic Poles and also secondarily against Jews. As wiki notes: The peak of the massacres took place in July and August 1943. Most of the victims were women and children. UPA’s methods were particularly savage, and resulted in 35,000–60,000 Polish deaths in Volhynia and 25,000–40,000 in Eastern Galicia, for the total of between 76,000 and 106,000 casualties. https://www.sott.net/image/s3/73771/full/wolyn.jpghttps://crimesofempire.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/vlcsnap-2015-04-26-18h37m46s63.pngNote: I cannot make the photos appear on the thread so if someone wishes to do this maybe requote the post. All this pales in comparison with what the Russians did to the whole of Eastern Europe during and after the second war. Millions of civilians were KILLED, RAPED, and TORTURED by the Russians. Never mind what Russians did in the past. It is far more important what they are doing NOW. Unless you are a complete psychopath you cannot ignore the atrocities Russians are doing RIGHT NOW. They are calling for genocide on their national TV and get applause from the audience. 86% of Russians are in favor of the complete annihilation of Ukrainian culture. They want them gone. Everyday Russians/Serbs and unfortunately many others in 'civilized countries' are in support of this ethnic cleansing. Truly unbelievable. |
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It scares me that you reached your pinnacle of cringe right on this topic. Person who yells WHATABOUTISM when i even slightly hint at a comparison (not a main rebuttal), blatantly doesn't answer a single direct question and just start discussing other people surely the irony cannot be lost here [...] Osama bin Laden was also fighting Soviets before murdering innocent people (and was also sponsored by CIA), does that make him a controversial figure in your eyes as well? How about Osama bin Laden Avenue in Kyiv, it can run directly parallel to Stepana Bandery Avenue. No, it's still you bringing in unrelated shit into this thread. You brought up Bandera as one of the reasons Ukraine needs denazification ( correct me if I'm wrong). I responded as to why that's absurd. If you can't make a coherent argument that's not really my fault. The UPA's actions resulted in between 50,000 and 100,000 deaths...the killings were directly linked to the policies of Stepan Bandera's faction of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN-B) and its military arm [...] Controversial figure, right, something all of us could've done, just a silly mistake, perhaps wouldn't mind having an address on his street? this is beyond atrocious! Not a fan of Stalin. Georgian' madman who indiscriminately killed his own people across all races/ethnicities (even his own Georgian republic suffered greatly "the exact number of Georgians executed during the Great Purges is not estimated, but some scholars suggest it varies from 30,000 to 60,000"). He did achieve his goal of rapidly industrializing USSR. I believe the argument largely comes from the cost/benefit analysis, where some people feel the loss of life is justified or couldn't be avoided under such circumstances. I tend to disagree and believe he went above and beyond on human suffering from what could be reasonably justified to industrialize USSR as quickly as possible. During the Soviet famine, percentage wise Kazakhs suffered the most 38 to 42 percent of all Kazakhs died from the famines during his rule. In absolute numbers including Russian famine of 1921–1922, the most died in Russia (~7mil). I surely wouldn't condone naming streets after him in 2016. Now any chance you could concede that the guy who did all the massacring and raping wasn't such a great guy and surely there must be other Ukrainian heroes who should get a street named after them? But still Bandera streets in Ukraine - bad, Ukraine needs denazifying. Stalin streets in Russia - nah, I just don't condone it. Sometimes I feel like your reading comprehension is on a 6th grade level. Let's try once again, I brought up Bandera because I came across CIA's operation Red Sox where in 1949 CIA also tried to back Ukrainian independence by sponsoring Bandera, and CIA operations chief flat out admits that they were sponsoring a group directly linked to Nazi atrocities, even worse they did the Nazi's 'dirty work' (Bandera). Everyone seem to agree that this guy massacred/tortured/rapped lots of people, yet Ukrainians felt that he was the most deserving from all Ukrainians to name a street in his honor in the capital of Kyiv in 2016. Now this is where i get confused, you claim that there are only few Nazis in Ukraine but no more than in any other capital ok, so if you'd say that some idiot somehow managed to find some loophole and rename a street in the city after the murderer but once people found out there were protests etc but for one reason or the other they cannot change it to someone more deserving, i'd understand. But you don't say that at all, what scares me is your allusions, changing topic to other people, and reluctance to condemn Bandera makes it sound like that's wasn't an error at all, and most people do in fact support a guy who massacred innocent people. Am i mistaken? Is Bandera a hero to you? Bandera is a Ukrainian national hero who fought for Ukrainian independence. He was against the Soviet invasion of Ukraine, a staunch anti- communist, nationalist but not a Nazi. He collaborated with the Germans, but later was arrested by them and imprisoned in the concentration camp. He was assassinated by the Russians. You support Russians who committed and are committing genocides and war crimes. Who executed people in Katyn? Santa Claus? Who killed innocent people across Europe during Soviet times? Russians did. So shut the fuck up about your support for these animals. |
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Looks like this is not the first time around, CIA operation Red Sox, US sponsors Ukrainians who weren't just Nazis but did Nazis' "dirty work". And who's the head of said directly linked Nazi group OUN (Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists)? You guessed it, the "hero" Stepan Bandera. Bandera was a Ukrainian nationalist, who fought against Soviets and against Nazis. Ended up imprisoned in the same concentration camp as Stalin's son IIRC. Allegedly for helping Jews, despite having anti-semitic views. Controversial figure. But that doesn't fit your narrative, does it? Black or white, putinist or nazi, no other options. Oh he fought against Nazis, now did he? Care to site how many Nazis he killed, jews he helped (i'd love to read about that) to offset tens of thousand innocent people women and children he murdered, so you feel justified calling him "controversial" instead of straight out condemning this asshole? I'm guessing with such logic, you consider Hitler to be a controversial figure as well? I mean, he drew paintings and surely you can dig up some article of Hitler saving a kitten or a puppy or killing one Nazi at some point in his life before WW2? Are totenkopf, wolfsangle, blacksun, swastikas, and sieg heils are also just "controversial" articles for you, cause you know they were used before Nazi's? Let's see what's Israelis stance on this point. His group also was involved in the ethnic cleansing that killed tens of thousands of Poles in 1942-44. The Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists portrayed Russians, Poles, Hungarians and Jews — most of the minorities in western Ukraine — as aliens and encouraged locals to “destroy” Poles and Jews. https://www.timesofisrael.com/kiev-renames-major-street-to-honor-russian-nazi-collaborator/But that's back from 2015, i'm sure it has cleaned up since then right? From 2021 article: Israel’s ambassador condemned the torchlight march Friday in Kyiv in memory of Stepan Bandera, issuing the strongest rebuke yet by an Israeli official of the event, which has grown in scope amid rising nationalism in Ukraine.
“We strongly condemn any glorification of collaborators with the Nazi regime. It is time for Ukraine to come to terms with its past,” Ambassador Joel Lion wrote on Twitter Saturday.
During World War II, Bandera led the Ukrainian Insurgent Army, whose men killed thousands of Jews and Poles, including women and children, while fighting alongside Nazi Germany against the Red Army and communists.
Expressions of admiration for Bandera and other collaborators have increased in scope and status following the 2014 revolution in Ukraine, which toppled the regime of Viktor Yanukovych amid claims that he is a Russian stooge, and triggered an armed conflict with Russia.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/hundreds-march-in-ukraine-in-annual-tribute-to-nazi-collaborator/Hmm okay how about other experts on this, the Germans
BURGER (AA): Die Bundesregierung verurteilt und stellt sich gegen jede Form von Antisemitismus und gegen jede Glorifizierung der Verbrechen der Nazis. Ich kann Ihnen ergänzend sagen, dass wir natürlich auch die von der Organisation Ukrainischer Nationalisten teilweise unter Leitung Banderas begangenen Verbrechen insbesondere an Zivilisten verurteilen. Ein erheblicher Anteil ‑ das muss man im Kopf behalten ‑ dieser Verbrechen wurde in Kollaboration mit deutschen Besatzungstruppen begangen.
Google Translate
BURGER (AA): The federal government condemns and opposes any form of anti-Semitism and any glorification of Nazi crimes. I can also tell you that we of course also condemn the crimes committed by the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, in part under the leadership of Bandera, especially against civilians. A significant proportion - one must keep this in mind - of these crimes was committed in collaboration with German occupying forces.
https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/de/newsroom/regierungspressekonferenz/2505386I guess Germany and Israel don't know what you know, you should explain to them how this guy was "controversial". The guy literally killed 10.000 of innocent people, and you reluctance to call spade a spade is concerning. This really needs to be a litmus test, if you in any way support a guy that killed 10.000 of thousands (uncontested) of innocent people you're a Nazi sympathizer or collaborator. He doesn't seem to be so controversial in Ukraine if government (presumably after lots of discussions) decided to name a street in a capital after this murderer. Edit: If in your eyes Bandera is "controversial" care to provide an example of Nazi collaborators who you don't find to be controversial, or are you saying that all Nazi collaborators are somewhat controversial because they all can claim to be nationalists? Serious question, what are your thoughts on Stalin. All this manufactured Nazi drama seems to be a distraction from the fact that when it comes to being responsible for human death and suffering, Hitler was a noob compared to Stalin. And here we are watching Putin, the former KGB agent that never got over the collapse of the SU, make play after play directly from Stalins hand book. Not a fan of Stalin. Georgian' madman who indiscriminately killed his own people across all races/ethnicities (even his own Georgian republic suffered greatly "the exact number of Georgians executed during the Great Purges is not estimated, but some scholars suggest it varies from 30,000 to 60,000"). He did achieve his goal of rapidly industrializing USSR. I believe the argument largely comes from the cost/benefit analysis, where some people feel the loss of life is justified or couldn't be avoided under such circumstances. I tend to disagree and believe he went above and beyond on human suffering from what could be reasonably justified to industrialize USSR as quickly as possible. During the Soviet famine, percentage wise Kazakhs suffered the most 38 to 42 percent of all Kazakhs died from the famines during his rule. In absolute numbers including Russian famine of 1921–1922, the most died in Russia (~7mil). I surely wouldn't condone naming streets after him in 2016. Now any chance you could concede that the guy who did all the massacring and raping wasn't such a great guy and surely there must be other Ukrainian heroes who should get a street named after them? Now what Hitler did was a genocide, he systematically exterminated six million Jews in concentration camps; and in gas chambers and gas vans in German extermination camps. These numbers are only from the Holocaust (don't include deaths due to war): | Victims | Murdered | | Jews | 5.7 million | | Soviet civilians | Approximately 6 million | | Soviet POWs | 2.8–3.3 million | | Poles | 1.8–3 million | | Serbs | 300,000–600,000 | | Disabled people | 270,000 | | Romani | 130,000–500,000 | | Freemasons | 80,000–200,000 | | Slovenes | 20,000–25,000 | | Homosexuals | 5,000–15,000 | | Spanish Republicans | 3,500 | | Jehovah's Witnesses | 1,250–5,000 |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_victimsWorld War II losses of the Soviet Union from all related causes were about 27,000,000 both civilian and militaryNow I'm giving you a benefit of a doubt and I really hope your audacity to claim that "Hitler was a noob compared to Stalin" just comes from your illiteracy. If so not all is lost, but you should really educate yourself before posting nonsense, or parroting keywords you hear in the media. How many Russians died in WWII? |
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Here is one of the major reasons why Russia is fighting so hard. An this time the US is their enemy after siding with the Nazi's, rather than uniting with Russia (as in WW2) to destroy Nazism.
Seems that Russia has turned into the good guys, and the Allies and Allied Command have turned bad.
Eight Years Ago: US-NATO Installed a Neo-Nazi Government in UkraineIt is of relevance to an understanding of recent events.
What is happening in Ukraine has serious geopolitical implications and could potentially lead to a World War III scenario.
It is important that a peace process be initiated with a view to preventing escalation.
Global Research does not support Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
This was my assessment in the immediate wake of the EuroMaidan Coup in February 2014:
"The World is at a dangerous crossroads: The structures and composition of this proxy government installed by the West do not favor dialogue with the Russian government and military.
A scenario of military escalation leading to confrontation of Russia and NATO is a distinct possibility. The Ukraine's National Security and National Defense Committee (RNBOU) which is controlled by Neo-Nazis plays a central role in military affairs. In the confrontation with Moscow, decisions taken by the RNBOU headed by Neo-Nazi Parubiy and his brown Shirt deputy Dmytro Yarosh –in consultation with Washington and Brussels– could potentially have devastating consequences. (March 6, 2014)
We are dealing with a coalition government (integrated by two neo-Nazi parties) which is supported by "Western democracy" and the "international community".
... How many members of the Ukrainian parliament are neo-Nazis? |
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Lol... still pretending that we use "his sources" as credible is kind of fun. But yes, they surrendered, it had to happen.
You are trying in vain to put on a good face on a bad game. No, they shouldn't have given up, it's a shame. The "cyborgs" from Azov were to die and become heroes - that would have been a military defeat, but a political victory for Kyiv. And now it's just an inglorious defeat of Kyiv, and a shameful defeat of the Nazi ideals of Azov, which, in fact, turned out to be not worthy of dying for them. There will be no exchange, military investigators are already working and Nazi criminals will be convicted. The surrender continues, last night another 200 Nazis of Azov came out of the bunker in addition to 265 from the first batch. Meanwhile, Russia has decided to test the new Terminator tank support fighting vehicle in combat conditions. Keep talking... 28,300 Russians dead so far, not counting the ones vaporized or blown up to pieces. |
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So, Russia should be happy now. Instead of potentially having border with NATO in Ukraine in future, now they will have 1300km border with NATO in Finland, just less than 200km from north capital St. Petersburg, plys Sweden nearby. Actions of Russia in Ukraine simply left no other choice for Sweden and Finland and pushed to join NATO. They can't stay neutral. Putin said today that he has no problems with Finland and Sweden. But if their entry into NATO entails existential threats to Russia in the form of NATO military bases or US nuclear arsenals appearing on their territory, then Russia will make its military-technical response, whatever that means.
Is it not double standard? Why Finland and Sweden can join NATO and Ukraine can't. Before war started, Ukraine wasn't even close from joining NATO, not even talking about NATO military bases and nuclear weapons there. Ukraine needed to think about this before cultivating an anti-Russian policy and building its national self-identity on the idea of "Ukraine is anti-Russia."
n addition, you talk about the accession of Finland and Sweden to NATO as a fait accompli, but Turkey explicitly expresses its disagreement and readiness to use its veto. Erdogan owes Putin and it seems the time has come to repay the debt. And Russia needs to get the fuck out of Ukraine before all their soldiers die. Turkey will bend over backward to get the latest fighter jets from the US. They are just raising the price for NATO members, but I think they will not veto them, IMHO. |
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The Russian government invaded Ukraine to prevent other Northern Europe countries from joining the NATO but it shows that some neighboring countries to Russia appear not to care about what the Russian may do after their decision in joining NATO.
All this happens because the Russian government is doing things with military force instead of them persuading and maturely talking with their neighboring countries about their decision in joining NATO.
In the meantime, let's wait and see if the Finland decision will push through.
I think they were just waiting for Ukraine to get invaded and when they saw the result was not what they expected, they quickly jump to conclusion that they really need to join NATO for their protection and support in case of a Russian sudden invasion. It seems like when they will be invaded as well in the future, they expected war supplies from their alliances and some sanctions against the invader. But things like this are not good for their country because what if they miscalculated? what if their country won't be invaded rather it would be destroyed with one single nuke? they need to consider reviewing back their decisions if they wanted to protect their citizens. You make a point, Finland could be waiting to see the outcome of the Ukraine invasion before they make their decision but honestly, the conflict is not good for both countries because it will affect the economic structure in the market and if the Russian government invades Finland in the future as you said. There's a chance for Russia to loose their reputation. I don't think Russia will lose its reputation. It is clear as day that Russia is a terrorist state to anyone with an ounce of humanity in them. Russians and their reputation as sadistic killers of civilians will follow them for decades. |
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Looks like it is people with 'Z's giving the wounded Azov people(?) the medical help they badly need. Are you saying that (the shrinking) Ukraine is only swapping healthy Azov 'defenders' and leaving the sick and wounded to the care of Russia/Donesk?
They're swapping the wounded ones. It makes sense for Russians to keep them alive so not sure what you're getting at. On May 16, 53 seriously injured people were evacuated from Azovstal to a medical facility in Novoazovsk for medical care. Another 211 people were taken to Olenivka through the humanitarian corridor. An exchange procedure will be carried out to return them home.
Russians desperately need a 'win'. The exchange of wounded Ukrainian servicemen is being presented as the 'surrender' of the Azov Batallion in the Russian media. You know 'capitulation of Nazis during Stalingrad siege' typo of a deal. 'Azov Nazis surrendered', blah, blah... Defenders of Mariupol did a great job of tying up 20K+ Russian soldiers for this long. We'll see if Russia will exchange the 211 Ukrainian fighters transferred to Olenivka for Russian POWs. Or they will break the exchange agreement and kill them or transfer them to some 'filtration/concentration camp' in the Far East, torture them, and then kill them. If I were in the Russian leadership, I would have exchanged all Ukrainian fighters in Mariupol for Russian POWs a long time ago. And declare a victory. But they are morons, instead, they tied up a quarter of their army resources to fight a couple of thousand fighters, for almost three months. The current Russian leaders are typical Soviet leaders, alcoholics who cannot think straight so we cannot expect much from them. |
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sorry if I am kind of highjacking the thread. how do you guys feel about religion or priests endorsing politicians? Our country, The Philippines, recently had our presidential election. as you can expect campaigns are everywhere which is fine by me, but what really irks me is that during the campaigning days a catholic church is being used by the supporters of one of the presidential candidates as a venue for her campaigning event, they even created a song for that candidate which was sung during a mass and priests pushing their political agenda during their sermons.
there is also a Religion called INC(Iglesia ni Cristo) in our country which Endorses Presidential and Vice presidential candidates to the people in their religion and asks them to support the Politician the religion endorsed.
It is wrong for religious leaders to be campaigning for politicians or supporting politicians openly. What the religious leaders are supposed to do is to correct and preach about bad leadership. Religious leaders don't have anything to do with politics or campaigning for politicians, it will cause a lot of damages in the society. Religious leaders should be arrested for fraud. Let's stop pretending there is heaven, hell, or sky daddy. Time to grow up. It is only us, primates willing to kill their own kind for abstract ideas. |
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Putin said today that he has no problems with Finland and Sweden. But if their entry into NATO entails existential threats to Russia in the form of NATO military bases or US nuclear arsenals appearing on their territory, then Russia will make its military-technical response, whatever that means.
Now, it should be clear to anyone with half a brain that the 'problem with Ukraine' was not about its NATO membership or 'prosecution of the Russian language', but simply full access to the Black Sea, farmland, and Donbas resources. Finland's and Sweden's NATO memberships are not a 'problem' for Russia now even though Russia's border with NATO increased substantially. Of course, there will be nuclear weapons and NATO bases in Finland. Why do you think they are joining? To get membership cards? BTW, Russians are eradicating the Ukrainian language and culture in the occupied territories. School curricula have been changed to completely Russify the population, and completely ignore the needs of the native population of the occupied territories. Russkiy fucking mir. Russians are the true Nazis. I hope Ukrainians will keep killing Russians until the last one leaves their lands. |
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