Agreed, moonshot bids for $20 coins don't really count. I keep meaning to create an index that divides each bid/ask by the % distance from the current MMR. I think it would be much more insightful. I just can't square the maths to adjust for the fact that bids only differ by 100% but asks can be many 1000% higher. Anyone know how to properly adjust for that?
Simple, just base it on the logarithm of the price. This sounds really really interesting. Who is going to give us easy online access first?  |
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We're getting major lag spikes. Haven't seen these in a while
On a more serious note...can anyone here speculate as to what has driven demand these past few hours? The only significant news in that window was the Nikkei crash.
Are people really seeing bitcoin as a safe haven? Or is something else at play?
The bolded is like saying "Hey, why is everybody running away, he only fired 10 shots and is almost out?"  Do you realize what a 7% drop in Japans stock market is like, right after all the Quantitative Criticism they have received lately? Further, the European markets were down 2%, not sure about now. The Plunge Protection Team (aka Federal Reserve) is at work on the American markets I'm sure. Global confidence is low, and a few more drops like the above can set off a catastrophe. Just think of what losing 7% of value must be like to some people... IAS |
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OK summary time: -Asks are dropping -Bitstamp Orderbook is looking better every hour -We are still at 125, though on low volume, nothing pulled it back this time -Low Volume german exchange bitcoin.de: availaible Coins steadily decreasing -Recent Good news not priced in yet ( i think) -No Apocalypse regarding the dwolla issue -Another spike in Chinas interest this week (yeah i wouldn't call it a hype either, but you get the idea) Bullish to me, see you at the top.  Thanks for the info. How are you tracking Bitcoin.de's available coins? I see it available on their marketplace section of the website, but is there also a record of it? (You have one maybe???) I just looked and there are 4369 coins available. I think the other day it was at 7k but can't be sure. |
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These askwalls and bidwalls seem far too high considering there's such low volume.
I wonder if this is a kind of DOS against Bitcoin itself.
Someone with enough USD and BTC on the exchanges could create an artificial situation like this and pull the plug either way whenever they feel like it.
This. These walls are way too coordinated. Who would be selling right now, when Bitcoin is so obviously getting geared up to go? So what are you guys suggesting the purpose and thus end result would be? Speculating of course. My reason was the conference. And it still kind of is related to it. My guess now is that Big Money works in groups, Big Money has friends. And their friends now see Bitcoin in the same light the rest of us do(at least profit-wise) - but they're not quite ready. They need to get some internal infrastructure ready for the conversion to Bitcoin. Also they might be waiting on Bitcoin exchange infrastructure to accommodate their level of planned buying; can current exchanges handle multiple buys of millions of dollars?(I am asking, I don't know) So they get back to their Big Money friends like "Yes, we get it now. We just need a few days to get everything in order. Please just hold the price for a short time, to stop a panic buy among current holders(and other companies), so we can start the real buying at these prices when we're ready." This would more than pay for the money their friends spent holding the price, at these volumes its just too easy for them. My guess would be is that they know a gold rush is inevitable, and that it will be a race. Not everyone knows they are going to end up having to run in this race, but the ones who do want to have a stable starting line as they're walking up, so they can make sure to get their affairs in order without any kind of panic. As in, this stability is the "take your marks" portion of the race. That is a pretty entertaining, yet a realistic (and perhaps more than reasonable) idea to consider. I have sort of been leaning towards individuals trying to maintain the price a bit with these walls, giving the appearance of stability or just to control wild fluctuations. Didn't give it much thought but perhaps we all should. Was never really sure what it was but I was thinking more at the individual level and not involving complicity, or is that conspiracy? Hey, where there is money (and perhaps a bit more involved here with all that BTC is) there will be people working in cooperation, at some level. the question is just where does that level end, and start for that matter? Wonder what chance there is that the walls sometimes come from exchanges, also for personal gain? IAS |
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often i find myself wishing bitcoin would crash hard so i could buy like a mad fool again  because lots of us have that idea, it will never crash to the levels you wish - unless bitcoin fundamentals are done with. I don't have any worries about fundamentals. One worry that quite a few people have however is an outright attack by government. As stated on the recent (#8) "Let's talk BTC podcast" if an attack is to be successful, it needs to happen relatively soon. Before we know it (my guess is by late this year, early next) BTC use is going to be much much bigger than currently. The bigger it's acceptance into mainstream the smaller its chances of stoppage. Even if they came after it now (and I don't mean some minor FinCen stuff) it would still continue I'm sure, but it would really hurt things. Anyway, for a real big attack to happen it would have to involve something quite strong/profound/etc. and I just don't see that happen. There just isn't a reason for that and it is hard to imagine something in the way of justification. The bankers have enough on their hands propping up collapsing currencies. Really, BTC is rather a compliment in the short term, but then again, maybe banksters don't want recovery? |
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No, it's just that some of us prefer more a considered use of words than just slapping them around. The pity is that you actually add quite constructively to the discussion now and then otherwise I'd just have you on ignore all the time but it's a high price to pay to read through this kind of stuff to get to the odd useful bit.
I wasn't at the convention and of course there were people there paying for their service to get noticed and bigging up their own products and services but from what I understand of the videos and write-ups I've seen it was very much about what is happening. So if someone says 'We added 1,900 in April' what do you want to 'see'? Their proof? If someone says 'We have partnered with x and are providing this service' do you actually need to try out the service for yourself before you believe they're doing it?
Look, you're really blowing this way out of proportion. The convention just ended. All I said was "I" wasn't putting much stock into it at this point. Me...not anyone else, I didn't try to lead people to think as I do, I simply said "I" and especially as it relates to the current price. Whether or not the convention was a success, is something I personally will determine over the next coming weeks. Again, "I" don't think it's going to have any immediate effect on the price or volume and to this point, it hasn't. If you are going to quote yourself at least get it right, you said this "That's the entire purpose of a conference, is to make people think "things are happening". " And that is a big smack in the face of a lot of people and I doubt anyone on these boards appreciates it. That IS the purpose. It's a sales show. A facade. A sales prop and you of all people should know I could careless what people on these boards think. It's not my fault you guys don't know what a convention is. You drink the Kool-Aid...I know what's up. And in the coming weeks, we'll see if this song and dance has any positive benefit. One last point...BFL was at the convention. Anyone get their units yet? Exactly...it's a song and dance. It's means nothing, in and of itself. Now, go change your panties and let it go. Have you ever considered that maybe you are wrong? Why should I, of all people, "know" about the BTC convention? What I do know is why BTC was started and that is for good reasons. So when you spout that crap it doesn't sit right with me, and judging by all the hard responses you get, it doesn't sit right with many on the board. Something to consider again, maybe you are just wrong. Nothing wrong with that. There are better ways of communication and if you just think of what communication is, by definition, you are failing at it (And I don't mean that judgmentally, just observationally.) |
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yep, 660BTC just got bought. That probably wasn't the intent of whomever put that wall there... Ah, never mind my above post. |
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Probably someone who wants to drive the price down to be able to buy cheaper. it appears to be well coordinated too: just now on bitstamp a 500BTC ask wall appeared at 118.35 I am curious how much movement this will generate... I'll wager a prediction: if the price does move down, those two walls will follow. Then again, I can't image how they expect to get much movement at current volume, with 2000BTC needed just to get below 122BTC on mt.gox.  I really don't see the effect though. If you want BTC's you buy them at a price that find ok. What difference does a wall make? And how many people actually use market depth? Seems it's more a psychological game to those who partake in it??? Your prediction is past history though. I know just a week or two ago there were large bid walls following the price up. But I wouldn't say that exactly made people buy. Maybe some, I can see the effect it has on some people. |
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No, it's just that some of us prefer more a considered use of words than just slapping them around. The pity is that you actually add quite constructively to the discussion now and then otherwise I'd just have you on ignore all the time but it's a high price to pay to read through this kind of stuff to get to the odd useful bit.
I wasn't at the convention and of course there were people there paying for their service to get noticed and bigging up their own products and services but from what I understand of the videos and write-ups I've seen it was very much about what is happening. So if someone says 'We added 1,900 in April' what do you want to 'see'? Their proof? If someone says 'We have partnered with x and are providing this service' do you actually need to try out the service for yourself before you believe they're doing it?
Look, you're really blowing this way out of proportion. The convention just ended. All I said was "I" wasn't putting much stock into it at this point. Me...not anyone else, I didn't try to lead people to think as I do, I simply said "I" and especially as it relates to the current price. Whether or not the convention was a success, is something I personally will determine over the next coming weeks. Again, "I" don't think it's going to have any immediate effect on the price or volume and to this point, it hasn't. If you are going to quote yourself at least get it right, you said this "That's the entire purpose of a conference, is to make people think "things are happening". " And that is a big smack in the face of a lot of people and I doubt anyone on these boards appreciates it. |
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Paint drying tracker... Braindump: When was the last time you were ready to answer the question, "So what's the price of Bitcoin then?" and could answer confidently WITHOUT checking the chart? Currency volume is at its lowest this year. Several days of stability with dwindling volume has happened once before this year around $48, then leading to a second wind for the spike to $200+. Me I've been mining LTC, a little FTC. Doing real world things, perhaps this is good, been getting better quality of sleep anyway  Can Bitcoin survive another hibernation period? Should we welcome it? Am I assuming too much again and is this merely the intermission before an exciting Act III? Were you at the conference? If you had been I don't think you would think we were in a "hibernation period" more things are happening now then ever. The good news is that the exchange rate is becoming less and less an indicator of how much in bitcoin world is happening. In reality TONS of things are going on that isn't related to the exchange rate. Bitcoin is more active then ever. . I won't read much into it until I actually "see" things happening. Back on the exchange front...there is continued pressure to move higher but that wall at 123, doesn't want to move for anything. Maybe as the rest of America wakes up, they may see the push into 123 and shift their positions. Ahhh, there is the coinseeker we all know and... Come on now, you are putting BTC and the a lot of the community behind it in a negative light with statements like the bolded above. If you want to see what is actually happening just follow the bitcoinchannel.com - One of the more interesting bits of news from Bitpay was 6 days ago: "Back in March I noted that the company was putting up mind-boggling growth rate numbers. Incredibly, the tremendous growth rate continues as they added another 1,900 merchants in April and are currently signing up around 100 additional merchants a day. " http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-05-16/peter-thiel-gets-bitcoin-bugYou guys are so sensitive, it's like talking with a bunch of girls who just finished watching "The Notebook". I've been in sales a long time and have been to countless conventions. They are just shows people. They don't mean anything. You look for what traction comes from those conventions, not the actual convention itself. It's a networking opportunity, display your products and you follow up on leads, from that convention/show. It means nothing, if nothing comes out of it...and that's why I said "see". Sheesh. Do you remember about a week or so ago when you were spouting your crap how you were attacked by many individuals? (And then you took a breather from posting) Now you come back, like you've turned a leaf, say your bullish and then start with this crap again? You are on so many peoples short list that it isn't funny. Every time you open your mouth you lose respect around here. To say what you did regarding conventions, to lump people together like that who attend conventions, is so disrespectful on many level. But, again and as usual, you become defensive and start attacking people. Next you will probably bring up your wife and anecdotal stories about her and how bad people are on the forum. Why don't you start working on being a nicer person if you ever expect to be taken seriously around here (and probably in the real world unless this is your alter ego.) Good luck in that endeavor, IAS |
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Hello all, I had a professional astrology reading given by Adam Sommer (The host of the Holes to Heaven Astrology Podcast). It is a 30 minute audio file and AFTER YOU LISTEN if you post questions here I'll forward a few on to him as this is part 1 of 2 (yet to come). I already have a few follow-ups in mind. https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0Yof4QTY_z8SkdiTmw0UHkxZXc/edit?usp=sharingThis is for fun and I found it, thus far, quite interesting. If you don't have anything constructive to say, just leave it out please. This thread is NOT about the efficacy of astrology or the like. I do however look forward to some feedback and comments. If you don't need the images in your reply, please leave them out for ease of following the thread. The charts he mentions are all below. Note - He uses equal sized houses so the charts are somewhat different than the others in Otoh's Astrology thread ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75955.0). Otoh and I came up with some questions and such to ask together though and we both agreed on the Dublin Chart. I will donate $50 for the reading and Otoh will chip in $25 (Thanks) - $75 total. Otoh's part might be in BTC/LTC, don't know yet - that is up to Sommer to decide on. If you would like to chip in, here is my BTC address 1jTJiNgcyNoi8WJJ93nypT1v4UnMJLrdw and a Lite Coin address: LdNHBi1W7Gfoe7CT6LpiR88fT2jYXK85vW .     enjoy, IAS |
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And when you hear them talk it is clear they are just in it for the money. There is no passion in their speech (if you can even call it that). I would be VERY VERY careful of these guys. They have millions and millions tide up. They are looking out for themselves first. +1 i've seen more passion from a javascript meetup talk. you don't have to be steve jobs to be a good speaker.. you just have to believe in the cause. it's just extra uuh, suprising that uhh these guys uhh graduated uhhh from Harvard. wrong. my son and i followed them out of the Conference Hall after their speech as my son wanted a pic with them. naturally we were amongst a small hoard of ppl doing the same thing. outside the hall we found them being interviewed by some female reporter surrounded by ppl. Tyler was speaking about how he thinks Bitcoin can be used to bring freedom to ppl of the third world. how a new sense of freedom and relief from poverty could be harnessed using a pure new form of money. she asked him about the mtgox seizure and he hopefully said it probably wouldn't matter in the whole scheme of things as Bitcoin is unstoppable from a global perspective. their handlers then whisked them off down the long hallway before anyone else could talk or get pictures from them. it's a long, long hallway and i decided to follow them to see if the crowd thinned out so we could grab that picture for my son. the crowd did thin some and just before they were to turn into an exit i shouted out to them to take a picture. both of them immediately stopped and said "sure" much to my surprise and the chagrin of the bodyguards. i quickly shoved my son btwn them and snapped off a very memorable picture. that picture meant a lot to the both of us. i'm convinced that the two of them are a humble, caring, thoughtful pair and my opinion of them shot up orders of magnitude. to my mind, the burden of proof has shifted to Zuckerberg to prove to me, at least, he was not the schmuck in that dispute. Great, so you have a story of them, against the wishes of their bodyguard, taking a picture with your son. That is really heartwarming but that doesn't convince me. What convinces me is what I see on a day to day basis, not a personal anecdote here and there. (Not that there is anything wrong with that - more data points in which to judge.) I think of athletes like Michael Jordon who are known to be very condescending and unfriendly to people (when the cameras aren't rolling) - saying all the right things in interviews and taking pictures with kids. It works, it's PR (and I'm not saying the twins are doing the same, but we should keep an eye on them.) Now maybe, they just don't come across as "emotional" or "enthralling" with regard to their speeches. We will find out. But right now, we need to be very very careful with who is "let into" the BTC community - including Ripple. Time will tell and further, where they spend all of those BTC's and money that they got. The proof will surely be in the pudding... It was more about the body language. Both hands in the pockets, head down while being interviewed, speaking softly and in measured tones. In contrast to the performers, who when interviewed in front of a crowd wave their hands, look around head up and smile flashing their teeth, speaking in loud commanding tones. Also the immediate, no hesitation to help response to my request for a picture. The behavior was completely consistent with what you saw on stage. Just my two cents. I have not reached a conclusion regarding anyone in the community. I think what many of us here are saying is just to be careful, especially when a few individuals have SO MANY shares. Not to make this political, but look at some recent politicians and there ability to sway peoples minds with great control of their body language and an excellent use of linguistics (and teleprompters ). Being careful will only help us. But thanks for your opinion, it does help to give some perspective. |
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Slowly breaking upwards? Super-low volume though.
If this low volume continues there won't be enough people to buy all the coins the ASIC miners are constantly selling off.
As long as our volume is minimally what it has been lately, I don't see it a problem selling off 3600 coins a day (Plus, who says all those coins are sold off. I'd bet they are not). If there is any problem, it is liquidity in Bitcoins. The price stability lately is actually quite telling... |
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Paint drying tracker... Braindump: When was the last time you were ready to answer the question, "So what's the price of Bitcoin then?" and could answer confidently WITHOUT checking the chart? Currency volume is at its lowest this year. Several days of stability with dwindling volume has happened once before this year around $48, then leading to a second wind for the spike to $200+. Me I've been mining LTC, a little FTC. Doing real world things, perhaps this is good, been getting better quality of sleep anyway Can Bitcoin survive another hibernation period? Should we welcome it? Am I assuming too much again and is this merely the intermission before an exciting Act III? Were you at the conference? If you had been I don't think you would think we were in a "hibernation period" more things are happening now then ever. The good news is that the exchange rate is becoming less and less an indicator of how much in bitcoin world is happening. In reality TONS of things are going on that isn't related to the exchange rate. Bitcoin is more active then ever. . I won't read much into it until I actually "see" things happening. Back on the exchange front...there is continued pressure to move higher but that wall at 123, doesn't want to move for anything. Maybe as the rest of America wakes up, they may see the push into 123 and shift their positions. Ahhh, there is the coinseeker we all know and... Come on now, you are putting BTC and the a lot of the community behind it in a negative light with statements like the bolded above. If you want to see what is actually happening just follow the bitcoinchannel.com - One of the more interesting bits of news from Bitpay was 6 days ago: "Back in March I noted that the company was putting up mind-boggling growth rate numbers. Incredibly, the tremendous growth rate continues as they added another 1,900 merchants in April and are currently signing up around 100 additional merchants a day. " http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-05-16/peter-thiel-gets-bitcoin-bug |
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And when you hear them talk it is clear they are just in it for the money. There is no passion in their speech (if you can even call it that). I would be VERY VERY careful of these guys. They have millions and millions tide up. They are looking out for themselves first. +1 i've seen more passion from a javascript meetup talk. you don't have to be steve jobs to be a good speaker.. you just have to believe in the cause. it's just extra uuh, suprising that uhh these guys uhh graduated uhhh from Harvard. wrong. my son and i followed them out of the Conference Hall after their speech as my son wanted a pic with them. naturally we were amongst a small hoard of ppl doing the same thing. outside the hall we found them being interviewed by some female reporter surrounded by ppl. Tyler was speaking about how he thinks Bitcoin can be used to bring freedom to ppl of the third world. how a new sense of freedom and relief from poverty could be harnessed using a pure new form of money. she asked him about the mtgox seizure and he hopefully said it probably wouldn't matter in the whole scheme of things as Bitcoin is unstoppable from a global perspective. their handlers then whisked them off down the long hallway before anyone else could talk or get pictures from them. it's a long, long hallway and i decided to follow them to see if the crowd thinned out so we could grab that picture for my son. the crowd did thin some and just before they were to turn into an exit i shouted out to them to take a picture. both of them immediately stopped and said "sure" much to my surprise and the chagrin of the bodyguards. i quickly shoved my son btwn them and snapped off a very memorable picture. that picture meant a lot to the both of us. i'm convinced that the two of them are a humble, caring, thoughtful pair and my opinion of them shot up orders of magnitude. to my mind, the burden of proof has shifted to Zuckerberg to prove to me, at least, he was not the schmuck in that dispute. Great, so you have a story of them, against the wishes of their bodyguard, taking a picture with your son. That is really heartwarming but that doesn't convince me. What convinces me is what I see on a day to day basis, not a personal anecdote here and there. (Not that there is anything wrong with that - more data points in which to judge.) I think of athletes like Michael Jordon who are known to be very condescending and unfriendly to people (when the cameras aren't rolling) - saying all the right things in interviews and taking pictures with kids. It works, it's PR (and I'm not saying the twins are doing the same, but we should keep an eye on them.) Now maybe, they just don't come across as "emotional" or "enthralling" with regard to their speeches. We will find out. But right now, we need to be very very careful with who is "let into" the BTC community - including Ripple. Time will tell and further, where they spend all of those BTC's and money that they got. The proof will surely be in the pudding... |
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I said it in another thread and I'll say it again here.
Ripple is the corporate/banking world's attempted co-op of the crypto-currency movement.
It says, "Hey you know that crypto currency idea? Well it sounds great, but why don't we centralize it so we can make a huge profit instead of allowing the common people to create added wealth on their own."
The main thing to focus on here is CONTROL, ripple gives control back to a small group of individuals which flies completely in the face of the philosophy of cryptocurrency's "forefathers". Im very concerned greed and stupidity(along with PR firms hitting the airwaves and brainwashing the gullible masses) will win out and people will slowly start backing ripple over bitcoin.
Well said, and to restate what mobile4ever said: Services like Ripple are destined to go the way of any service which proposes to establish Bitcoin functionally within the existing Fiat frameworks. Bitcoin is not meant to live alongside Fiat. It is meant to kill it. With extreme prejudice. Again, I just get the feeling that Ripple, though it can do good things, is designed as a way into the BTC ecosytem. It could be used as a heist like system to BTC - the more I look into it. I also get the feeling the XRP thing is being used as a "oh, it's no big deal, not about money, not central to Ripple, etc." and then when Ripple takes off it will be "Get your XRP's now, while they are still cheap and you still can. Government regulators are going to come down on BTC." Something just doesn't sit right with Ripple. And I bet we together will find out. Further, since it will be open source, why don't we just make it do what we want and simpler? Better yet, what about just making our own - isn't that what Bitmessage / Open Transaction is doing to a point? |
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The real hurdle is that most stars are liberals. Once they get one whiff of the "liberarian" stuff that gets said around here, they'll not only do a complete 180, many would become advocates against it. Maybe not publicly, but within their circles and that's all it takes. "Hollywood" is not that big.
The Bitcoin diehards are going to have to tone the rhetoric way down, if you seriously want some "star power" on board.
Just my honest opinion.
I wouldn't worry much about "guilt through association". I see you point, but perhaps we should think of the current money system and less about ties with parties to BTC. I feel I am fairly versed in BTC and what it can do, and to be honest, your bringing up the libertarian point here, is the first it has crossed my mind. I have been looking at BTC itself. I would really hope, considering all that is at stake here, that it won't come down to party affiliation! Maybe you are right, but I hope not. Anyway, at least you were on point. All these posts now about twisting the title so they can be a millionaire and then spokesperson - ha ha  Come on, the point here guys is that, whether we like it or hate it, public figures can often make or break a cause. Then again there is the Streisand effect. |
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I really wish someone would recognize it too...
My question is:
Where are all the New Rich?
Every technological revolution creates "New Rich" (farming, math, building, mining/drilling, transporting, industrialization...). Why is there not a SINGLE Bitcoin millionaire in the news... Or on these forums even...
If you were a BTC Millionaire, would you really want to advertise it? The point isn't the wealth, it is what this technology can bring. My idea of this thread was merely to associate a person that people know with this "new" idea of Bitcoin. I'm sure it will happen and can you imagine when it does (in a good way of course!) The thing that still shocks me is the float - Can you believe there are only 11 million??? 10, 9, 8, 7,... |
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