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261  Other / Off-topic / Re: Scientific proof that God exists? on: October 19, 2017, 10:56:16 AM
Problem is, you can call it many many different things, there is no value in calling it god just like there is no value in calling it an alien from another dimension or a computer program simulation, all of those would be perfectly legitimate too then but what's the point, we don't have sufficient evidence for any of them and we may never have, at least in our lifetimes. I recognize the possibility of a intelligent creator, there is no evidence that something like that could exist but because there is also no evidence it does I simply don't believe it. The problem I have is people who actually say they KNOW or they have PROVED god existence when it's simply not true. I'm not an atheist and I really don't like to label anyone with silly tags.
By your argument, you could also say that there is no value in calling it "Big Bang", "the universe", "everything" or "empty space". Which is just simply false. Depending on the circumstances you need to adapt your language to get a message across. You usually can't hope to speak Spanish to a Chinese person. Using different terminology for the same thing is no different.
And again, when it comes to "proof", it simply doesn't exist. You can not prove anything whatsoever. You can collect evidence, and it might be enough to get everyone to move on with their lives and to assume that they've figured something out. But in the end, no amount of evidence will ever be conclusive and thus will never constitute as an ultimate proof.
Anyone who claims to have proof of anything either uses the term loosely or doesn't know what they are talking about.

No, you totally misunderstood what I said just like badecker didn't even attempt to understand because he knows I'm right. The point is that big bang was a name given to something that was observed, all the evidence led to that assumption and the assumption was simply called big bang and it could have been called anything. God on the other hand is not like that, we didn't observe him, we don't have evidence for him. The point is that god is like ghost or like demon or any other imaginary creature you can find, we never observed them, we don't have evidence for them, their descriptions are made up, big bang's description is not made up, is backed up by science and evidence so even if it was called big poop it would still have the same qualities and description that are real. There is no point in saying the creator of the universe is god when we don't know what god is, I think that's pretty simple to understand. The logic is circular, you are saying the creator of the universe is god and then you are describing god as the creator of the universe, no information is gained from this, you might as well call it holly poop, what do I care? If we don't know what it really is, then there is no point.
The big bang is not something that was observed whatsoever... That statement makes the rest of your post largely irrelevant since it indicates that you don't even understand what the Big Bang really is about. And as far as misunderstandings go, it's obvious that you haven't gotten my point, since you're just rephrasing the same false statement that I've already addressed previously.
You're also putting words into my mouth that I've never said or implied.

No, the big bang has evidence that backs it up, god DOES NOT, neither have been observed, ton of things haven't been observed because it's impossible, the point again is that god is something made up and the big bang is not, whether you want to understand that or not it's up to you.
The big bang is made up. It's just one hypothetical concept that could possibly explain the creation of the universe. There are various competing hypothesis other than the big bang as well and nobody knows which one is actually true. And that doesn't even take into account the fact that even if the big bang started our universe, we wouldn't know anything about what caused the big bang itself. Which is where the post I've made two posts earlier comes in, that clearly went way over your head. You don't know what you are talking about and you refuse to go back, sit down and try to figure it out instead of just rephrasing the same false statement yet another time.
262  Other / Off-topic / Re: Scientific proof that God exists? on: October 19, 2017, 10:21:34 AM
Problem is, you can call it many many different things, there is no value in calling it god just like there is no value in calling it an alien from another dimension or a computer program simulation, all of those would be perfectly legitimate too then but what's the point, we don't have sufficient evidence for any of them and we may never have, at least in our lifetimes. I recognize the possibility of a intelligent creator, there is no evidence that something like that could exist but because there is also no evidence it does I simply don't believe it. The problem I have is people who actually say they KNOW or they have PROVED god existence when it's simply not true. I'm not an atheist and I really don't like to label anyone with silly tags.
By your argument, you could also say that there is no value in calling it "Big Bang", "the universe", "everything" or "empty space". Which is just simply false. Depending on the circumstances you need to adapt your language to get a message across. You usually can't hope to speak Spanish to a Chinese person. Using different terminology for the same thing is no different.
And again, when it comes to "proof", it simply doesn't exist. You can not prove anything whatsoever. You can collect evidence, and it might be enough to get everyone to move on with their lives and to assume that they've figured something out. But in the end, no amount of evidence will ever be conclusive and thus will never constitute as an ultimate proof.
Anyone who claims to have proof of anything either uses the term loosely or doesn't know what they are talking about.

No, you totally misunderstood what I said just like badecker didn't even attempt to understand because he knows I'm right. The point is that big bang was a name given to something that was observed, all the evidence led to that assumption and the assumption was simply called big bang and it could have been called anything. God on the other hand is not like that, we didn't observe him, we don't have evidence for him. The point is that god is like ghost or like demon or any other imaginary creature you can find, we never observed them, we don't have evidence for them, their descriptions are made up, big bang's description is not made up, is backed up by science and evidence so even if it was called big poop it would still have the same qualities and description that are real. There is no point in saying the creator of the universe is god when we don't know what god is, I think that's pretty simple to understand. The logic is circular, you are saying the creator of the universe is god and then you are describing god as the creator of the universe, no information is gained from this, you might as well call it holly poop, what do I care? If we don't know what it really is, then there is no point.
The big bang is not something that was observed whatsoever... That statement makes the rest of your post largely irrelevant since it indicates that you don't even understand what the Big Bang really is about. And as far as misunderstandings go, it's obvious that you haven't gotten my point, since you're just rephrasing the same false statement that I've already addressed previously.
You're also putting words into my mouth that I've never said or implied.
263  Other / Off-topic / Re: Scientific proof that God exists? on: October 19, 2017, 08:29:56 AM
''We are greater intelligence making lesser intelligence.'' That depends, if you have a son and he is more intelligent than you, does that mean you are able to make greater intelligence with lesser intelligence? Even If I agree with all your points and everything suggests that there has to be a greater intelligence that created the universe, your argument never mentions or shows why that being  would be god and not something else. There is nothing to suggest your god did it and not some other entity.

People don't make their children. They get them started by having fun, and nature takes over and makes the kids. Your deception only helps to strengthen the fact that there is proof that god exists.

The reason the being would be God is that He is supremely capable, not only in the ways that we are, but in multitudes of ways we are not enabled. Why is He that way? He is that way because He programmed everything by cause and effect. Such programming is not even fathomable by people. I have shown and told this to you on many occasions, but you just slide by it and ignore it.

So, thanks for strengthening the fact that God exists... in the minds of others.

Cool

So the reason that being would be god is because god is supremely capable, you see the circular reasoning there right? You can't say the reason the creator of the universe has to be god because god bla bla. You have to prove god, you can prove god with god, that's nonsense

No circular reasoning. Don't use the word "God" for a moment. Imagine that big bang made the universe. Wouldn't big bang have to be extremely capable to make something like the universe? We are so week in our theory making, that there is only a tiny amount of stuff in BB theory that fits what it would take to make the universe and all the complexity therein. There isn't any of the strength, knowledge, capability in BB to make a universe like ours.

Whatever made the universe fits the definition of God regarding the power, intelligence, personal identity, emotion, and a whole lot of other factors that BB would need to accomplish this gigantic feat.

Cause and effect combined with complexity shows us that there is no other way to approach this subject. If there is, show it to us. Or are you saying we just don't know and probably never will? Any other way would have to include pure random.

Cool

''Whatever made the universe fits the definition of God'' Which god, certainly not your god (Bible god) If we can't know who did it exactly then there is no point, you are just defining god as the creator of the universe, ok, so? What other attributes does he posses, is he like us, from another universe, we can't know anything about him/her/it, you can just say it's god but there is nothing else after that, you don't have any type of evidence to indicate what he really is, you just keep calling him god.

God: creator of the universe
Your argument: Well the creator of the universe is god
Me: Who is god
You: god is the creator of the universe

Circular reasoning.
Science is fundamentally circular as well. God vs no god is thus no more than entertainment that some people choose to take way too seriously. The whole idea of a God is definitely made up and expressed by humans.

However, at the same time there definitely exists an omnipresent and omniscient something, namely the entirety of existence. Calling that entirety God is perfectly legitimate and something that most rampant atheists are too ignorant and/or arrogant to realize.
Whether or not that entirety is conscious is a different question (and an odd one at that, as there wouldn't be any change to be conscious of for something that is everything - temporal, spatial, etc. - at once), but we can't even answer what human consciousness means in any satisfactory way. Alas, any and every God debate is no more than a mental exercise or just yet another way to pass time as a human being at best, and a way to manipulate others at worst.

Problem is, you can call it many many different things, there is no value in calling it god just like there is no value in calling it an alien from another dimension or a computer program simulation, all of those would be perfectly legitimate too then but what's the point, we don't have sufficient evidence for any of them and we may never have, at least in our lifetimes. I recognize the possibility of a intelligent creator, there is no evidence that something like that could exist but because there is also no evidence it does I simply don't believe it. The problem I have is people who actually say they KNOW or they have PROVED god existence when it's simply not true. I'm not an atheist and I really don't like to label anyone with silly tags.
By your argument, you could also say that there is no value in calling it "Big Bang", "the universe", "everything" or "empty space". Which is just simply false. Depending on the circumstances you need to adapt your language to get a message across. You usually can't hope to speak Spanish to a Chinese person. Using different terminology for the same thing is no different.
And again, when it comes to "proof", it simply doesn't exist. You can not prove anything whatsoever. You can collect evidence, and it might be enough to get everyone to move on with their lives and to assume that they've figured something out. But in the end, no amount of evidence will ever be conclusive and thus will never constitute as an ultimate proof.
Anyone who claims to have proof of anything either uses the term loosely or doesn't know what they are talking about.
264  Other / Off-topic / Re: Scientific proof that God exists? on: October 18, 2017, 10:42:27 AM
''We are greater intelligence making lesser intelligence.'' That depends, if you have a son and he is more intelligent than you, does that mean you are able to make greater intelligence with lesser intelligence? Even If I agree with all your points and everything suggests that there has to be a greater intelligence that created the universe, your argument never mentions or shows why that being  would be god and not something else. There is nothing to suggest your god did it and not some other entity.

People don't make their children. They get them started by having fun, and nature takes over and makes the kids. Your deception only helps to strengthen the fact that there is proof that god exists.

The reason the being would be God is that He is supremely capable, not only in the ways that we are, but in multitudes of ways we are not enabled. Why is He that way? He is that way because He programmed everything by cause and effect. Such programming is not even fathomable by people. I have shown and told this to you on many occasions, but you just slide by it and ignore it.

So, thanks for strengthening the fact that God exists... in the minds of others.

Cool

So the reason that being would be god is because god is supremely capable, you see the circular reasoning there right? You can't say the reason the creator of the universe has to be god because god bla bla. You have to prove god, you can prove god with god, that's nonsense

No circular reasoning. Don't use the word "God" for a moment. Imagine that big bang made the universe. Wouldn't big bang have to be extremely capable to make something like the universe? We are so week in our theory making, that there is only a tiny amount of stuff in BB theory that fits what it would take to make the universe and all the complexity therein. There isn't any of the strength, knowledge, capability in BB to make a universe like ours.

Whatever made the universe fits the definition of God regarding the power, intelligence, personal identity, emotion, and a whole lot of other factors that BB would need to accomplish this gigantic feat.

Cause and effect combined with complexity shows us that there is no other way to approach this subject. If there is, show it to us. Or are you saying we just don't know and probably never will? Any other way would have to include pure random.

Cool

''Whatever made the universe fits the definition of God'' Which god, certainly not your god (Bible god) If we can't know who did it exactly then there is no point, you are just defining god as the creator of the universe, ok, so? What other attributes does he posses, is he like us, from another universe, we can't know anything about him/her/it, you can just say it's god but there is nothing else after that, you don't have any type of evidence to indicate what he really is, you just keep calling him god.

God: creator of the universe
Your argument: Well the creator of the universe is god
Me: Who is god
You: god is the creator of the universe

Circular reasoning.
Science is fundamentally circular as well. God vs no god is thus no more than entertainment that some people choose to take way too seriously. The whole idea of a God is definitely made up and expressed by humans.

However, at the same time there definitely exists an omnipresent and omniscient something, namely the entirety of existence. Calling that entirety God is perfectly legitimate and something that most rampant atheists are too ignorant and/or arrogant to realize.
Whether or not that entirety is conscious is a different question (and an odd one at that, as there wouldn't be any change to be conscious of for something that is everything - temporal, spatial, etc. - at once), but we can't even answer what human consciousness means in any satisfactory way. Alas, any and every God debate is no more than a mental exercise or just yet another way to pass time as a human being at best, and a way to manipulate others at worst.
265  Other / Off-topic / Re: Scientific proof that God exists? on: October 16, 2017, 02:48:00 AM
If bible, koran, torah and other holy scriptures are wrong this will not prove that there is no God. If there is a God there is no way we can prove his existence if he don't want to. Our civilization is still very young, still many things we cannot explained.

As was said directly above your post, God made science to prove his existence. Actually, He made science so we could prove His existence to ourselves.

All the holy books in the world might be wrong, but science still proves God's existence.

Cool
All of science is based on statistics and not on immutable facts. All of science is circular as well, so it's not really possible to prove anything in the strictest sense of the word. That also means that there very well might not be anything that requires any proof and that people who chase such are just enjoying their time on earth by making up statements that they feel need to be proven (or not).
266  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do Atheists hate Religion ? on: October 10, 2017, 10:58:37 PM
So I see 2 threads of why islam hates people or why people hate Islam. I dont see the point of such a mundane debate based on religion any debate for or against religion would be stupid. Either you are stupid to believe what a prophet / god / divine entity said or you are stupid enough to believe you can change the minds of the bleak minded people who follow such a prophet / god / divine entity.

But since its fun let me initiate my own brand of 'why do' topic.

WHY DO ATHEISTS (like me) HATE RELIGION ?

Seriously what has to happen in a person's life for them to seriously give up hope on the one true everlasting brand (of religion) which their ancestors have followed for generations.

Everyone has their own story even I have mine, so lets hear some of it.





I think atheists don’t hate religion. They just hate stupid followers. I am aware that in this world, multiple religions actually divide people causing to persuade one another that their religion is the one to be followed. People also end up hating and killing each other because of religion. But is it the religion or the followers? No religion in the world, based on their books, actually implies killing people of different faith.  Best tip yet, follow your religion and do good to others and respect what others believe in.
While not true for all atheists, most of them are stupid followers themselves. They don't even understand the fundamentals of science and still eat up any and everything that "a study says".
Also, religion is just an excuse to hate and kill. People have been doing this for other fake reasons since the beginning of human existence. There are smart people who think for themselves and stupid blind followers in every group of people, no matter if it's religion, science, or any other kind of group that humans make up.
267  Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoin or gold? on: September 16, 2017, 04:38:55 PM
well.. now  a days... bitcoin is more affordable and easy to get.. unlike gold which is you need more money to obtain it. and in terms of usable in evryday life... its more comfortable to use bitcoin in everyday life.we can pay using bitcoins in store while gold...?? I dont think so...::)thanks
i think in modern era people and investors are giving more value to bitcoin, and the reason behind is that bitcoin is more profitable because of the fluctuation in the price of bitcoin. in fact gold is good but for saving and not for making money, because for last few decades the price of gold is too much stable and we can observe a very minor change in the price of gold. therefore most of the people only invest in gold so as to save their money in a safe place for long term and even its value do not decrease.
The market capitalization tells a different story. But it seems like Bitcoin is indeed eating up the traditional markets.
268  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Nazi's infesting America on: August 29, 2017, 09:20:48 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AhGYo9TExU&feature=share
269  Other / Politics & Society / Re: world war III : north korea VS USA on: August 21, 2017, 08:32:04 AM
It's a big crisis for all the country.
There comes the alliance of both country and join this war if happen.
All of us will be affected.

DPRK has no alliances, China is their only friendly country but not an ally. Russia isn't either.
Then China has no major asiatic allies, India would strike China if given the chance, Malayans are racist towards Chinese too... China would avoid war at all cost, their regional enemies largely outnumber their allies.
270  Other / Politics & Society / Irony of ideologies on: August 21, 2017, 08:17:51 AM
When you look at the "neos" and compare it to the old version, the major irony is that "neos" would probably hate their "base version".

Neo-Nazis vs Nazis

Neo-Nazis are racist towards anything but white race. Nazis were racist too, but more keen to its time, they don't kill black people for being black people, were friendly to Arabs, Indians and Asiatics, but made differences on "white race", they weren't quite friendly to Slavs and don't consider Latinos proper whites. Their major targets, the only "races" they hate to termination ends, were gypsies (as they see them as totally useless) and jews (seen as the big world conspirator).
Neo-Nazis are also way less of a communist and way more of a capitalist than Nazis.

Neo-Communists (neo-lefties, antifa, so on) vs Communists

Communists were, and still are, homophobic and xenophobic to the extreme, making here a tiny difference to Nazi racism, they don't have a "master race" but the local race is the "master race" of that said local.
They are also very harsh on lazy unproductive people, which happens to be the majority of the neo-lefties' fabric.

These groups if leave in the same space where only them exist would kill each other, making a difference that at the first ones the Neos would probably kill the Nazis, as they are more violent, and the second one to be the real Communists to wipe the Neo ones.
271  Other / Politics & Society / Re: world war III : north korea VS USA on: August 21, 2017, 07:57:42 AM
In order for a war to be a World War you need at least two major powers engaging each other. As NK is far from matching any major world power, it would be US crushing a mosquito. And if NK uses its nukes then not even its only "ally", China, will help them on anything.
272  Other / Off-topic / Re: Transgenders. on: August 20, 2017, 09:52:53 PM
Transgenders are also a human so they have right to live. I know it's against on a bible but we will do? Transgender are still transgender. We can't treat them like animals or we can't kill them. Let the live like us.

Wow! I think that's a step to far! Of course they're people and of course nobody should be harassing, injury or killing them over that.
I'm however against it's promotion. You know young people is too influential and may jump of the cliff because some media promotional stuff on those grounds.
My view is acceptance (if you did it, well... be happy) without promotion (I'll not tell someone who's thinking of it go ahead or promote it - as 99,99% of the changes will never make you a successful being of the opposite gender anyway and I'll never support anyone to go through needless surgery).
273  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Philosophy on: August 20, 2017, 09:47:38 PM
I have to point out that communism is the opposite of fascism

Sorry to disappoint you, but they are not. They're basically the very same thing with a different name.

Prior to talk of left and right and use meaningless graphics, where the only point is "they're left because they call themselves that way", you need to know and define exactly what those sides are and what they stand for.
On the beginning it was easy, Jacobins and Girondins, Jacobins sit on the left side of the French parliament (hence the name) and Girondins on the right. Jacobins were radical and wanted to eradicate all wealthy persons, Girondins were moderated and seek understanding of the French classes. So on the beginning it just means radical (left) or moderated (right).
No need to say, a couple of centuries later, when communism showed up, there was already nobody on the "left", so they took the empty spot and are marketing it ever since.

So what it means now?
As the communists got to be the "owners of the left" (it should have a TM after it) basically you're "left" if they say so. Nazis were... until 1942, then they suddenly got to "extreme-right", was more of a "copyright violation" than a political sphere movement.
On the political compass left and right are separated by own much the state controls the economy; from "all of it" (extreme-left) to "nothing at all" (extreme-right). On this compass, Fascism, Nazism, Communism are close neighbors, on all of them the state has full control over the economy. On the other axis that goes with your individual freedom, they're also on the Authoritarian side.

So, as you see, you're just reacting to marketing about the very same product. In philosophy when you do the same, you're the same.

As a footnote, a North Korean girl if get pregnant from a foreigner will be forced to abort; they're extremely racist.

EDIT: This is how "antifa" reacts to Hitler's speeches when they don't know the author btw: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=derHRFGZ4NU
274  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Nazi's infesting America on: August 19, 2017, 11:28:26 PM
https://youtu.be/derHRFGZ4NU
 Grin Grin Grin
275  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Nazi's infesting America on: August 19, 2017, 07:49:48 AM
The OT is just a hate fueled person, equal to any nazi around, just think that by calling himself anti-fascist will make him less of a fascist, regardless acting like a common fascist.

For your knowledge:
Fighting an ideology IS NOT fighting people! When you talk on fighting nazism you are meant to refer to its ideology, uncover its fallacies, show valid alternatives to fanaticism and understand why fanaticism is on the raise.
If you think that by killing people who wear a swastika or any other mumbo jumbo is "fighting nazism" then you're nothing but one of them pretending you aren't. That was their problem: killing people, not using swastikas or lift the arm.

You know, fanatics love labels, be it antifa, nazi, proletarian, capitalist... to the very end they're all hate groups chasing down others and labeling them at convenience. You live under a communist dictatorship, they don't like you and you've a old rusty bike? You're "a capitalist" and they will kill you!
276  Other / Off-topic / Re: Transgenders. on: August 18, 2017, 08:44:32 PM
For me transgenders have a base problem. Often you listen to "he felt like a woman" or "she felt like a man"... But ever stop to think what does this means exactly? And the answer is; Nothing at all. Women and men "feel" nothing different, the whole manly and womanly behavior are social constructions, other than give birth, what no doctor can make a man do regardless, there's no overall differences between genders for someone to "feel like the opposite sex".
277  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Communism: Pro and Cons on: August 18, 2017, 08:31:29 PM
If the best communist practices could be 100% efficiently implemented in reality, it would be all pros and no cons.
But as people are not perfect - it is bound to end up in corruption and poverty sooner or later - so, no pros and all cons. It's just a disaster bound to happen.

People isn't perfect but that isn't what makes Communism a non-working fallacy of all cons and pros only to very few at the top of the pyramid. What makes it what it is is the fact that persons are different.
Being different it means that each one of us have a different set of likes, dislikes and interests, this commands the "value of things". If John likes bananas but no apples and Sue likes apples but not bananas therefore bananas will have a higher value to John and be worthless to Sue, in the opposite direction apples are a valuable item to Sue but worthless to John. The Free Market just assumes this simple truth of value floating based on demand, if more people wants a piece of an item and the more scarce is that item to the demand the higher will be its price.

The concept of equal distribution totally fails on assuming items values and making everyone to take it as same value, regardless on how much it worth to each individual.
278  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Communism: Pro and Cons on: August 17, 2017, 07:36:41 AM
I fancy the irony that supports Communism.
It's an ideology designed for dumb capitalist people. As the dumb are intrinsically greedy, they believe that if everybody splits their wealth with them - yes, they exclude themselves of the share as in their mind they're poor (even if they are millionaires) - they will get more stuff.
Obviously they will fail square on see the obvious, not only they will be on the "givers" side but that the split will not provide as many wealth as they think. For an instance Bill Gates' fortune is somewhere around 80 bln, as there're 7 bln people, if we do a fair split of his fortune everyone would be receiving something around 10 bucks... Ouch! Not much for those dream holidays and new car, isn't it?
279  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Nazi's infesting America on: August 17, 2017, 07:12:58 AM
In that subject, Trump isn't the disease, it's a symptom. He didn't grew those groups, was elected by them.
Usually when extremism start to pop up it means there're severe issues on the social fabric, urges to identify and deal with those problems.
280  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Trump is better than Obama? on: August 16, 2017, 10:51:02 PM
They are way different...
Obama was more of a common politician, that kind that people is used to and like to listen even when there comes nothing but soft lies.
Trump isn't anything of a politician, he speaks out his mind regardless and even when he is right he will be pointing unpleasant truths nobody wants to listen. Or just go on big fat lies... depends on the subject.
There's no exact yes or no or black or white answer to that question at this moment. Ask it again after Trump leaves the White House as for most of it only time will tell...
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