Well see for yourself. Just go to the Blackcoin Foundation site and you will have Mr. Vizique here in full nose regalia. But all the others are circling the waggons, and have been for a few days already, showing up in masse here, in Twitter and above all, in group, at VRC's IRC channel.

They are indeed a class act... by the way, where did you get the idea they would have some class? It is the biggest (documented) scam in the history of alternative coins. They are prominently in THE WALL OF SHAME... it must be that gorgeous logo of them, otherwise I cannot understand where you may have gotten the idea that there was any semblance of class over there...

I didn't write "impossible" I wrote "...if not impossible..." in the context or a larger phrase. Of course nothing -almost nothing- is impossible, but the degree of "unlikely" grows exponentially, in crypto, when there's transparence. And lack of anonymity. I don't know where you live, but in the US, there are laws, even though there's still  no regulation. And over here it is very difficult to get away with theft... at least completely... IF you are a student by the name of Patrick Nokster developing a coin like VRC. Definitely much harder than if you are a Russian expatriate with no known name who goes by one or more handles, let's say like "Rat4". Still, since you (rat4) are in the US, you are subject to laws -and the scrutiny of the IRS-, so it is quite hard -not impossible- for you the get away with blatant theft (perhaps not so much with about half of the loot...). Now, if you live in Sri Lanka and you are a dev under the handle of "Wizzbit" or whatever.

You get my meaning, I'm sure.

You started -and try to maintain- a scam. The Black Hand left and left you dried and dying. And what the fuck are you doing here, mister land-grabbing Blackcoin Foundation board member. All your fanboys are spreading like the plague here and at the IRC... why? No need to answer, sure. The last "intelligent" thing you said was "buah" when you were 3 months old.

This should not need clarification, but the BC posters here -and a couple others- keep on spinning. And blatantly lying. So here we go:

A per Patrick and Douglas, there will not be any more roll backs.

This is clear and rotund enough, isn't it? But what happens when "this" (the theft), happens again... and it WILL happen again? the same "concerned" individuals shout again and again...

The clear, repeated answer, is that we all hope it will NOT happen again and since, until now, no one has ever stolen 30% of one coin, and since measures have been taken by the VRC community (staking) and -hopefully- the exchanges themselves, a repeated situation is highly unlikely if not impossible to happen. Furthermore, as VRC grows and new investors come in, such a situation, again, is virtually impossible. As we stand today it IS actually impossible. That answers ALL the possible questions... if they are legitimate, that is -which we know, they aren't-.

All that said and was said repeatedly -not as repeatedly as "At the end of the day", mind you, nothing came close to that one-, IF a situation such as this, in which 30% of the coins were stolen again and it was as easy and simple to reverse the situation as it was in this instance, I sincerely hope -and I am convinced too- the exact same measures will be taken. Not just by VRC but also by any other crypto coin... (this is important:) by any other crypto coin that has non-anonymous developers, those who, by doing ANYTHING ELSE, would not only lose everything they have in the attacked coin but also would permanently bar themselves from crypto. Such actions would sen a very clear signal to the crooks out there. They will be getting the picture. It's long time due to eliminate the bad players. Just like it was long time due, when this team came out, to eliminate the anonymous developers from crypto. The bar was raised then. The bar has been raised again. And it comes with RESPONSIBILITY and at least a semblance of ACCOUNTABILITY. Until REGULATION comes, it is up to the crypto community to eliminate the bad players, condemn them to ostracism and march forward towards a much more secure, clean and easy to be accepted in the mainstream crypto world.

As for the BC jokers, sorry but I have been saying for a while that you lived by the sword (The Black Hand) and you would die by the sword: There's no more blood to be sucked from you by the Black Hand, so they have moved, here and to DRK, where there is "blood" aplenty. You are left with a gorgeous logo and a bunch of fan boys now beginning to realize that the gig is almost over. It is the chronicle of an inevitable death long foretold. It was a very easy to see scam. And scams, and theft, should not prosper anymore in crypto.

The bar has been, again, raised.

Well Patrick Charlie Lee can be your god but he is VERY wrong this time around. And by being wrong in "his opinion" he is perpetuating not just the biggest flaw in cryptos but defending that the ostracism from the real world will continue. He lives, by his choosing and his opinions, in the bubble of the underworld or nerds who code, watch massive porn amounts, masturbate frequently and are high or doped most of the time. Yes I know a lot in the crypto community adhere to this short of lifestyle and it won't be me criticizing it -or any other lifestyle chosen by adults-, but the fact of the matter is that in that bubble no people from the outside has either a place nor a minimal interest in joining. It's the people that in the name of some form of self-laws and self-government (all of it BULLSHIT, by the way), not only justify thievery and fraud but promote it and even brag about it. It used to be stealing intellectual property and now it has escalated to stealing plain old fashioned money. And that has to stop, by a minimal progression through some semblance of ethics or, most likely, by real law. And regulation.

Meanwhile he dares to call you selfish because you refused to immolate yourself and your partners, forever, while allowing a thief to profit maybe in the millions of dollars at the expense of investors. That's some peculiar sense of "humor" right there. Why not asking directly for you and your partners to commit suicide because you have made a decision that, HOPEFULLY, will forever change crypto and convert it into something with a real practical use for an economy many times bigger than the nerdy coders now crippling it. Where is Litecoin, by the way, going? All the way to Palookaville, I'd say. Where's VRC? We don't know. But if Mr Boricuaman and his Black Hand don't put it out of business -and it is up to you to not allow that to happen, to a certain extent at least-, it is breaking off, or could be breaking off the pack towards a sensible, close to the real people mainstream assimilation.

So sorry but Mr. Charlie Lee is, to me, one asshole more perpetuating crime in crypto and hindering his progress. Yes, you acted selfishly in the way that it was preserving the coin you created that some asshole had marked for death because of the amazing negligence of MintPal. But you decision also saved the hard earned money of over 600 investors/traders. A whole community that believes in you and your partners and avoided another terrible blow to the perception of digital currencies by the mainstream. You didn't have much choice beyond self-immolation but what that selfish decision has and will accomplish, is nothin g short of remarkable.

Let's just say that from now on, just like it did when you gay put your real names out there, there's a before and after in crypto. Hopefully this will separate the assholes and criminal from the progressive ones that will take crypto currencies forward to reach the goals that the technology allows and NOT the political agendas of pathetic rejects and assorted criminals.

Back from vacation... only to see that price has had a 41% (so far) haircut... what happened?

I read in the "first press release from Voot coin" that IconicExpert -my supposed alter-ego for some nut cases- has issued and Yahoo financial published, that "VootCoin's NiteSend feature uses a multilayered protection process to help ensure untraceable, hidden, completely private transactions between parties who are not able to know each other's identities." And this brings to my memore the all kinds of vanilla-flavors anons that now plague every single crypto coin out there (including VRC, of course). But what makes me smile most is the part in which "...the parties (transacting) are not able to know each other's identities." This to me is like the gay (or not gay) baths on Melrose, in Hollywood, where people go, insert their dicks in a hole in a wall and someone on the other side sucks it until business is taken care of... Not a bad deal if you are into that kind of stuff but, for the life of me I cannot think of any transaction in which any normal person would want to be involved in which they would go to such extent to avoid knowing who are they buying from -and even selling to-. Not that I care much about who is selling what if the product or service is  known and highly regarded but, if they are, the people I have known all my life take great pains and considerable expense in making it known to everyone that those are indeed their products/services . Just the opposite seems to continue being all the rage in (some) cryptos.

Now I know that VRC, its community and its devs are not interested in transactions involving arms, terrorist services and slavery (sexual, organ or otherwise). So it would leave only porno stuff (and if you need crypto to pay for that you have problems that no amount of anon is going to solve) and drug cartel activities (where you may knot know the identity of the person you are buying the stuff from but you know its proceedings go ultimately to a cartel. I am quite sure that the devs pursuit of mainstream adoption would gladly leave both those sources of "interest" out too.

So quite glad that anon pursuit is NOT one of the priorities of VRC.

Sorry for the somewhat off-topic. Hopefully some would find it if not interesting, at least slightly humorous.

The idea sounds quite attractive... although there would be fees involved, therefore not so advantageous in that regard.

Problem is that I for one -and I believe billions of people around the world- would trust such an enterprise about 2 minutes AFTER Hell freezes over, so why waste energy -much less resources- on something bound to fail miserably when the solution is already in place many decades ago, in the real world?

No matter how much we want to jerk off around the bushes, the solution to most crypto problems, including mass mainstream adoption, passes by REGULATION. When it does arrive -and arrive it will, at least in the US and Europe-, it will be many years too late... even if it were to be imposed tomorrow.

And exactly how would that work? You and me agree, through chat or e-mail, that I will transfer you 1,000 VRC for whatever amount in BTC (or other coins, fiat included). Do we use an escrow service? or is the buyer forced to trust the seller will send the coins once the irreversible transfer of payment is done?

By now everyone in crypto must know about the "theft" of 8 million VRC in the MintPal Exchange of the early hours of July 14th. As the official version goes, the successful attack of the exchange by  hackers resulted in the seizure of 8 million VRC... and nothing else. Other than the confirmation on the part of the VRC dev team, nothing on the way of proof of such hack/theft has been produced so far. At the time of this writing the dev team has issued a new wallet that actually hard forks the VRC blockchain and leaves the theft/hack as if it never happened, rolling back the transactions to moments before it is supposed to have happened.

It appears that for unexplained -so far- reasons, MintPal kept the 8 million VRC -a quarter of the entire VRC in existence, roughly- in a "hot wallet", instead of a "cold" one as they are supposed to do. Nobody has confirmed or denied it but, other than for staking purposes, it is hard to imagine what other reasons would exist for such unnecessary and risky behavior that greatly facilitated the hack/theft if it indeed happened.

Apparently only some $4,000 worth of transactions had happened between the hack/theft and the discovery and subsequent freezing of the receiving wallets 8 million coins so the very limited options left to the developers of VRC were really one alone, as explained here by one of the developers: http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/vericoin-developer-speaks-ccn-mintpal-hardfork/2014/07/15

The subsequent controversy has gone viral, of course, with all kinds of opinions and predictions raging on with the huge support of the VRC community for their devs' decision and some self-called "purists" condemning to the extent of extreme personal rage, such decision.

I have posted on the VRC thead, several times, that I find their decision both appropriate giving the circumstances, and unavoidable, forced, in fact. And I support it because the damage would have been fatal for VRC and MintPal (this second thing, not a negative one at all) and, perhaps more importantly, the damage to crypto in general and the many traders who have funds at MintPal, would have been enormous.

That said -again- I do find preposterous that MintPal is getting scot free from this censurable, terrible, impossible to justify whole shebang. The exchange is fully responsible and bound to warrant the safety of it's customers deposits. It is SHAMEFUL that they were put at risk for whatever -or none at all- reason, much less if it was for the purpose of benefit from staking, a benefit that they would not give back to the owners of the coins. They will pay for the minimal damages some have suffered as a consequence of the "hack/theft" and back to business as usual... Quite unfair -and shameful- indeed.

Costly in time as it would have been, I believe the normal course of action should have been to freeze the stolen coins, the banning of the two wallets which contained them forever and that MintPal would have been forced to pay the owners for the stolen coins. It was their fault, completely, so they should be responsible for the restitution... at least. Of course, that would have bankrupted Mintpal and the traders/investors would have been left dry, so those traders/investors are the second winners in the fiasco... some say unfairly for it is their responsibility to deposit their funds on exchanges that hold them secure... or risk the consequences. A valid argument, indeed. One that would have resulted, in fact, with the numbers of total VRC reduced by 8 million and, theoretically, a 20%+ increase in price of the remaining coins (and a 20% richer dev team, lets not forget that).

The good guys that the trio of devs of VRC are, opted (were forced) to take the only alternative that preserved the coin AND the the investors/traders who owned those 8 million VRC. The other two options were deemed unacceptable. I believe it was a good decision. But it was one that in actuality saved MintPal at no cost and for no benefit. And that is unfair. Mintpal's behavior, once again, was shameful. They should be accountable for it. And, as it is, I hope that most people who have funds deposited there move them to safer environments and that Mintpal actually dies a quick death for, besides the crooks, they are the bad guys here.

One more note and a couple troubling questions: MintPal must show unquestionable proof that the "hack/theft" indeed happened and that this is not an inside job... it should have made public that evidence long ago, actually, but it seems the shameful behavior of that exchange goes way farther than just the negligence that caused the supposed "hack/theft".

And the questions: We know that on July 6 a single wallet -that I am convinced is controlled by the Black Hand- had 4.5 million VRC. I also believe that is why the well known Black Hand operative, "Mr. You soy Boricua Pa que Tu lo Sepas" is "generously" supporting VRC to the point of writing "five figures ($) checks" without asking anything in return, promising promotions of mass media proportions and imminent red-carpet events with world celebrities attending. There's no other logical explanation... the question is: Was any of those 8 million VRC "stolen" owned or controlled by the Black Hand and the hand (no pun intended) of the devs was somehow forced even more by that circumstance? I guess we'll be forced to speculate on that one from  now on...

For now at least, the SHAME will fall squarely on the obvious culprit -apart from the hacker if one or more did indeed do this-. But the full truth may have several other implications.

The other obvious question: Why was only the VRC wallet attacked? One would assume that if they had the VRCs on a hot wallet, whatever the purpose or reason for it, they would also have other coins in hot wallets too? Why, again, VRC and ONLY VRC?
 

I have posted several times that I also believe the devs acted wisely. But the gratitude for it would be quite excessive since their options were so limited that, in fact, there was nothing else they could do. Thanking someone for doing the only thing they could possibly do, is overkill, I'd say. Did they save the coin? obviously they did. But that benefits no one more than themselves -other than the Black Hand, of course, which is a very important consideration by the way-. If they did nothing, VRC couldn't exist today. Neither would MintPal... nor the BLACK HAND. And the reputations and the names of these devs would be ruined forever, while the same bar of transparency that they raised significantly with VRC, would actually prevent them from any position of significance, ever again, in crypto.

So the gratitude is far from warranted... even if, as is the case, I fully support what they were forced to do.

And on that note, I still fail to see - that's why I expect, anxiously, the addressing of the matter in the hangout-, the reason (or price, for VRC should benefit monetarily and in significant measure for it) for saving MintPal, obviously the element at fault besides the crooks. From ANY perspective, Mintpal, the responsible part for inadequately handling the coins they were entrusted with, is the overwhelming winner in this fiasco they allowed to happen. They would be bankrupt by now, without any doubt. Instead, they are still in business -although I hope people will rush out of Dodge on that regard and force them to close shop as of tomorrow- and their negligence hasn't cost them a penny, thanks to the VRC devs.

Accountability, unfortunately -along with flagrant fraud and thievery- continues to be dominant in cryptoworld. Even while the good guys, seemingly, have started to arrive.

Normal world regulation is so sorely needed...

My agenda? You must be some new kind of clairvoyant because I have no agenda whatsoever on VRC. I own a small amount, currently profitable. And, quite frankly, I don't care -although I'd prefer it would go much higher, of course-, what the price does in the next few days.

But tell me, so at least I will know what MY agenda is, please... If you can add your age that could be quite clarifying too...

I understand your focus on the price. But I believe you may be quite wrong in your current assessment. If you take a look at the books at Bittrex, where all the volume is right now, you will see very big amounts of VRC available for purchase... and practically no bids of significance. This doesn't mean there are no buyers, they are, they simply don't make significant bids and buy at the ask.

But This has nothing to do with me personally, I already own some VRC and don't want to purchase any more for now. This has to do with the fact that hoarding of coins is a NEGATIVE for the coin, not a positive, regardless of the effect on the price.

Now, considering that -in my opinion- the Black Hand controls 4.5 million coins at least, the network needs significantly more than 13 million coins staking to be relatively secure... but that is entirely another subject.

Thank you for the info on the hangout.

I believe the more significant drop will happen when the scared shitless traders get their coins back from MintPal. That would be the logical initial reaction, I think.

I don't think you got my meaning at all... I find worrysome that SO MANY coins are in fact staking already, not to mention the many more that are in cool down status. VRC, in order to be successful, has to be widely available for trading and for purchasing of goods. Staking is hoarding and would signal, if in excessive amounts (and those 13 million plus the cooling down ones ARE excessive) to total lack of liquidity... which would be extraordinarily worrysome.

I hope that number decreases very quickly and full liquidity returns to the trading markets and the availability for purchasing when VRC returns to normal.

PRICE IS FALLING

I know fan boys would find all kinds of excuses, of course, when, in reality, it is a simple logical -and I'd say temporarily at least, inevitable reaction-, but the truth is clear: Price is falling significantly in Bittrex. Currently around 32k which is roughly 22% from where it was before trading was initially halted. And, as far as Bittrex goes, or quite high volume during the last 24 hours.

I would imagine that a lot of people is wanting out right now for two reasons: One, to stay away and protect their investments until the smoke clears out and Two, because even if they still believe in VRC, as most do, they expect to have the opportunity to buy back in cheaper. It is absolutely normal and, again, I'd say inevitable.

Longer term? I am quite sure VRC will greatly benefit from the events we have just lived through and the mainstream reaction will start to be hinted at after the coming Chicago show over the weekend.

It would be quite nice if a hangout could be organized BEFORE the weekend to clear the air for the community as soon as possible, though. I hope it will happen.

Well that's precisely the point, numbnuts, that I am not even remotely who you choose to think I am. As for IE, I don't believe he would be interested in your "wall-to-wall counseling" either, he doesn't seem to be physically framed that way, but I wouldn't know. You see, IE is as far away from me, both racially, physically and philosophically as one can be ... withing the US. And yet, you choose to believe, numbnuts that you are, that we are the same person. Oh well, ask me if I give a fuck.

Or anyone else, for that matter.

That would be great... except that the IRC is CENSORED and therefore no real discussion with opposing views can take place there. That is the ONLY reason why VRC has not been listed in THE WALL OF HONOR.

And, by the way, rather than engaging the so-called "fudsters" here, and therefore facilitate their tasks, most wise people is simply ignoring them, either by not reading their posts or by actually hitting the "ignore" button, which makes the thread much more readable to them.

To go to a censored channel to avoid counterpoints -and fudsters, admittedly plenty of them in the last couple of days-, is not a solution at all, it's sharing a joint, so to speak, between fanboys rather.

omg as in "worrysome" or omg as in "good" (assuming you meant MILLION, not "millon", of course...?

That's half the float... MP alone has another 8 million -as we have painfully just found out, so that leaves only another 4 million and change for the other exchanges and for actual USE...

I'd say "worrysome" applies more than anything, what do you think?

Don't worry you won't have to "invest" for too much longer.
The problem is not that the dev work or not; the problem is that this was, since the beginning, and remains, a pathetically ill-conceived "business".
Unfortunately, this will not save you money because you are determined to throw it all away, but you were told when it was in the 50Ks, when it went to half that and it is being told to you again.

Even by design, there's no more absurd model in all of crypto... yet.