Not at all. Theres no concern that one person has half a million coins to crush the market with if he has a bad day.  Haha wow, then it’s 3x worse with Bitcoin, as Satoshi is rumored to have 1.5 million BTC. But yeah, Ixcoin is way worse in this regard!  Alright, it actually might be worse, as there are >3x more Bitcoins than Ixcoins, but still. |
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So stop selling your I0Cs for such low prices! k? Thx.
No, I will continue to devalue your I0coin wealth.  At first I thought other block chains were cool experiments, but now it’s become boring. This development is also reflected in the price tops of the block chain currencies based on their recency: Namecoin spiked to 0.14, Ixcoin to 0.01 and I0coin to something like 0.0058. It was nice to make a profit off them by mining/speculating, but I’ve liquidated all my inferior-coins a while ago in expectation of a Bitcoin rally. The only things I’d find interesting to see now are *coins that are 100% generated within a few weeks and a block chain where the block reward increases with difficulty. |
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You have it backwards... price is derived over time from perceived value. And one's wealth in any commodity or asset is "reduced" if someone else floods the market with that thing. It's not unique to Bitcoin. Supply and demand... it's like being upset with gravity. Indeed, in principal it is the same non-issue with Bitcoin. What differs though is the scale of it, with one individual possibly holding over 20% of the current coins in existence. The market volumes are nothing in comparison. I know you don’t consider this scary or problematic, but many people do, for example if they want to use Bitcoin as a store of value. And yes, if someone does not engage in their own due diligence, and take responsibility for himself, he cannot fault anyone else for the trouble that besets him. We are not children here, and indeed the Bitcoin marketplace is probably the most open and "knowable" marketplaces anywhere in the world. The entire thing is open-source, for crying out loud. Anyone upset that the consumer may "be in the dark" about some things should more appropriately direct their attention to the Federal Reserve. I can't tell you how many dollars are in existence, but I can figure out in 5 seconds the number of bitcoins down to single digits. Markets trade 24/7 in countries all around the world. Nobody has to jump through hoops or pass silly tests to participate - the responsibility is on the individual. Nobody is forced into Bitcoin, the same cannot be said for dollars. Again, that’s a matter of ideology (individualism and responsibility) … I don’t think we can assume that people could ever be 100% rational actors with near-perfect information. Of course, that’s the reason profit exists at all in the free market. |
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it’s absolutely not like he could just drastically decrease the value of everyone’s Bitcoin savings by throwing a bit of his Bitcoins on the market.
Everyone who says something else is just jealous/communist and doesn’t understand how the free market works!
Don't confuse market prices with value. If an early adopter sells all his coins, he has stolen no value from anyone... though he has created an opportunity to acquire more value at a better price. I don’t understand this. Of course the perceived value mainly derives from market price, and of course your wealth in Bitcoins will be greatly diminished if Satoshi et al. ever decide to sell off part of their stash. Noone is magically going to appear and buy up all coins until they are worth as much as before. Also, I think many people decide to invest and don’t even know how the distribution is (and yes, for reasons of a stable value this is important to know). Now, according to Libertarianism, it’s entirely their fault if they don’t do their due diligence and the market will punish them. Can’t argue with ideology. |
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Guess what, the discussion turned about early adopters.
My question is, who of these whiners bought bitcoins at 6$? So? You missed them at 0.01$ and so on, but you were HERE when bitcoins were at 6$, a cheap price. Since all your whine i am sure you invested a lot in buying bitcoins at 6$ am i right??
Or you are only good at whining omg pizza for 10.000 btc?
I bought a bunch at 1$ and ~0.7$ a few months ago. Good points made by OP.
I do agree with others though, that I hope that Satoshi and other early birds will spend some of their coins now.
Hahahaha, is this the Bitcoin trickle-down theory? Oh please, Satoshi, spend some of your Bitcoins so we can have an economy! And please set up some bounties! And bail out the MyBitcoin users! |
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What's all this talk about early adopters taking "risk?" If anything, people nowadays are taking more of a risk with current prices of bitcoins.
Early adopter wants 10,000 coins a year ago? he sells someone a pizza. Thanks, I agree with this notion. CPU mining for a few weeks was not taking a risk in any real sense, so please, let’s stop with this myth. The more time in the Bitcoin world passed, the riskier everything got, due to Bitcoin’s value increasing, of course. Bitcoin viruses, MtGox, MyBitcoin etc. never were issues in the past, but newcomers see themselves confronted with infrastructure that is insufficient (and also the Bitcoin client), and they may not be aware of it. The people who take risks are those who are using the infrastructure, investing fiat, buying rigs, building businesses etc. Satoshi is like a gold miner who goes mining without a pickaxe and then bringing 5% of all gold ever to be in existence home with him. Crazy to think about it, but the complete inelasticity of the inflation rate makes it possible – tens of thousands of people are now competing for the same supply Satoshi and early miners had. |
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Satoshi, if he does indeed have the rumored 1.5 million coins, would hold 7%.
Wrong, that would currently be more than 21%. It will take a long time until it is diluted substantially. But yeah, no problem at all, because FREE MARKET. Having an anonymous individual with a percentage that large is no problem at all, it’s absolutely not like he could just drastically decrease the value of everyone’s Bitcoin savings by throwing a bit of his Bitcoins on the market. Everyone who says something else is just jealous/communist and doesn’t understand how the free market works! |
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I don't have a problem with early adopters being rewarded. I DO have a problem with any single person holding more than 0.5% of the currency available.
Agreed. It can be a problem for stability. Also, what people here are forgetting is that early adopters usually have CPU mined their wealth. Running a CPU consuming app for a few weeks is neither risky or wild. That’s something people even do for free to help a cause, like folding@home. Putting your money in Bitcoin or today’s mining hardware is certainly risky though. |
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Do we have to counter it with exuberance of the exact opposite though? I’m bullish, but I like being realistic, and if you put in too much hope in what this conference can achieve for Bitcoin, you might be disappointed.
Though I really don’t see any fundamental that has changed to justify a rally. People still can’t actually utilize Bitcoin itself to store their weatlh because the client is terribly user-unfriendly (where’s wallet.dat, how do I encrypt it, etc.), and we’ve seen what this has done.
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[…] since we going to $15 for the conference.
Cool crystal ball you got there. HAHAHHAHA THIS IS GOING TO BE EPIC !!
Seriously, some Bitcoiners are maniacs. |
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Please, people. This person is just a troll from over there: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3413928&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1I find it quite funny and sympathize with some of their views. Do you all have Asperger or why can’t you understand humor? I’ll highlight some clues. Respectfully, you have no idea what I do for BitCoin, so speculation that someone may have done more than I have is just that - speculation. I'm totally fine with you taking that stance though, as the free market will prove the truth in the end.
I know Bruce has his fans and that's fine too, I used to be one of them as well. He has indeed helped spread the word about BitCoin, but I differ in my interpretation of exactly how much this has helped. A lot of very misleading information has been put out there and endorsements for products/services were given without any due diligence. He's promised a lot but hasn't delivered in terms of the network and the show, which amounts to not much more than a man with a laptop giggling at himself on camera anymore. This conference is just being handled terribly and I think that his insistence that everything be handled in USD equivalents is just a sign of his true intentions in the BitCoin market - and that is speculation. That, on the surface, is acceptable but when you run a network around BitCoins and build up BitCoins as the best thing ever, shouldn't you practice what you preach? I just find that very unprofessional.
Plus, changing the venue without a word and without any input from the community was a pretty low class thing to do as well. Yes, venues do change, but the way it was done was very misleading and unprofessional.
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this whole thing is like one big WASTE OF TIME. Go mine BTC or NMC. WE DON'T NEED MORE CHAINS.
Why leave it at two? Either one or infinite chains. Also, why all the hostility? It’s Free Market! |
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I too would take up this deal with 1, maybe 2k BTC, but even with currently equivalent USD collateral I can’t be sure to get back 100% of the BTC in case it rallies hard.
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Wallet security. Every idiot should be able to quickly and safely back up his wallet.
Only if we make it possible for everyone to actually use Bitcoin (no third party risk) to store their wealth will confidence be restored.
I’m not sure how we can accomplish it, but encrypted and deterministic wallets would at least remove a lot of hassle, plus a menu item to export your wallet to given location.
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casascius, do you really want to have the same pump and dump again, just this time with Namecoins, because you bought loads of them cheap? I’m a bit disappointed, but I guess you want a second ferrari.
Namecoin is no different than Bitcoin, monetarily speaking, except that it’s more likely to be a bit more evenly distributed initially. In the long term, no changes though.
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0, my average price is a bit over 1.7$. Not holding Bitcoins at the moment, I’m waiting to see if the early adopters (read early miners) finally fully realize their ridiculously high gains.
I also hope that this happens, I’m sick of the pump and dump game since its beginning at the exponential rise at ~3 USD. After this experience, lots of people will be burnt and we can start thinking long-term about Bitcoin’s future.
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The good news is: He is a bitcoin multi-millionaire himself. ( Remember, he's been in this since before July 2009. )
Any source for both of these claims? |
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Regarding MyBitcoin, this is at least better than the owner being a fraudster.
That's still not determined and at either rate the damage is already done. Cheers, Kermee If it really is the case, then the reputation damage for Bitcoin (fraudster early adopters, everywhere scam services etc.) will be less. Though it could also encourage less vigilance in the future … DO NOT STORE YOUR DAMN SAVINGS WITH SITES WHERE YOU DON’T EVEN KNOW WHO THE OWNER IS. |
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I've been up way to long and can't make sense of this post, I will sleep and try again in the morning. Don’t worry, I’ve given up on making sense of any of his posts for a long time myself. Regarding MyBitcoin, this is at least better than the owner being a fraudster. Either way, a criminal made a killing, and all of us are encouraging that. |
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