You do have btcstock exchanges like Havelock(that rentalstarte is on), cryptostocks and so on, bitcoin lending platforrms like btcjam, croudfunding places like kickstarter, but you probably need to check up how to comply with rules with someone who knows exactly how it works like MSantori https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=118100 here on bitcointalk if your in the usa & or your company is there or you seek funds from us citizens, rules & regulation over there seems to be a bit complicated even for smaller projects. Thanks for the initial input. I've contacted MSantori to see if he can provide some inputs and guidance. One of the things I do like to point out regarding this is that I do not have to own TG. You need someone located in the US to primarily do fulfillment. Being incorporated in the US is not a prerequisite for executing this idea; the company can be formed where it's most optimal. Also, the initial phase only involves VXS as a guaranteed buyer, but TG should operate beyond VXS and as it's own entity. The problem is rather that if you do have a company in the usa(who owns the company probably matters less) you can most likely not issue shares at an "unregulated"/unsanctioned exchange like havelock, cryptostocks and so on to raise capital without beeing in violation of us laws, but im sure an us lawyer like MSantori can explain better what rules will apply to your specific case. |
|
|
|
You do have btcstock exchanges like Havelock(that rentalstarte is on), cryptostocks and so on, bitcoin lending platforrms like btcjam, croudfunding places like kickstarter, but you probably need to check up how to comply with rules with someone who knows exactly how it works like MSantori https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=118100 here on bitcointalk if your in the usa & or your company is there or you seek funds from us citizens, rules & regulation over there seems to be a bit complicated even for smaller projects. |
|
|
|
一个中国股东的提问，回复如下： 亲爱的股东，您好！ 感谢您购买我们的基金，很高兴的告诉您，本次mtgox事件对我们的基金并未有任何影响。 就像我们的公告中写的那样，我们目前只是在对冲LTC、XPM、DOGE， 而mtgox上面并不能对这三种虚拟币进行交易，所以我们暂时没有把BTC存放到mtgox上， 我们也没有拿基金进行对冲以外任何存在风险的交易， 所以我们的基金是安全的，并且运营良好，请您放心。 ------------------ Best regards and thanks for your support! BtcAutoTrader Team ------------------ Original ------------------ From: <k****** 2@126.com>; Date: Mon, Feb 24, 2014 07:53 PM To: "admin"< admin@ejustech.com>; Subject: 此次MT-GOX事件对你们基金是否有影响？ 你好，我是一名股东，我想问的是此次MT-GOX事件对你们基金是否有影响？万一MT-GOX跑路是否会有损失？如果有的话损失有多少？ Google translation of that: ========================================= Asked by a Chinese shareholders, reply as follows: Quote Dear Shareholder, Hello! Thank you for purchasing our fund, I am glad to tell you that this mtgox incident did not have any impact on our funds. As we wrote in the announcement that we are currently only in the hedge LTC, XPM, DOGE, The above does not mtgox these three virtual currency transactions, so we do not have the BTC stored on mtgox, We did not get any funds other than hedging transaction risks, So our funds are safe and well-run, please be assured. ------------------ Best regards and thanks for your support! BtcAutoTrader Team ------------------ Original ------------------ From: <k****** 2@126.com>; Date: Mon, Feb 24, 2014 07:53 PM To: "admin" < admin@ejustech.com>; Subject: The MT-GOX event would affect the fund for you? Hello, I am a shareholder, I want to ask is the MT-GOX event would affect the fund for you? In case MT-GOX Paolu whether there will be losses? How many, if any, loss? =================================== So basically to simplify "this mtgox incident did not have any impact on our funds" The fund has no funds at MtGox(as MtGox don't trade in LTC, XPM,DOGE it wold be no point in having funds there even if MtGox had been a "normal" working exchange) (basically no one sane would risk having funds at MtGox after april/may 2013 when usgov confiskated many milion usd for MtGox unless you were part of some inner circle with garantees to be able to freely transfer funds quick in/out of MtGox without any problems) |
|
|
|
Will there be any info on the mining proces once its up? Can we check how much income the miners generate?
Not sure what degree of statistic they will provide but here's an estimate(coinwarz) for GRID based on todays btcprices and profitabillity based on the following: usd per btc 543,59(very low now would have been better to exchange yesterday at ~620 or next time up over 600 in my opinion), 160 usd/miner 164.467 inkl controller, 65 370 000 shares 7 watt scrypt only or 7+53=60w(Scrypt+SHA256), 0.09 usd/kwh, dual mining mode(scrypt+sha256) 300 kh scrypt+8gh/s btc or 350 kh/s scrypt only. scrypt+sha256 ->inkl btc per miner/day or in usd btc/day btc/day div per div per share exchange @ exchange @ without with with all miners share and and week 600 usd/coin 650 usd/coin electr electr electr and day per week per week BEST scrypt 1/228,22 btc 2,38 2,37 0,005427 1,166 btc 1,784 sat ~12sat/12% ~14sat/14% ~15sat/15% DOGE 1/348,74 btc 1,56 1,55 0,003918 0,842 btc 1,288 sat ~9sat/9% ~10sat/10% ~11sat/11% LTC 1/423,48 btc 1,28 1,27 0,003403 0,731 btc 1,118 sat ~8sat/8% ~9sat/9% ~9sat/9% BTC 1/777,86 btc 0,70 0,58 scrypt only per miner/day or in usd btc/day btc/day div per div per share exchange @ exchange @ without with with all miners share and and week 600 usd/coin 650 usd/coin electr electr electr and day per week per week BEST scrypt 1/207,94 btc 2,61 2,60 0,004783 1,027 btc 1,572 sat ~11sat/11% ~12sat/12% ~13sat/13% DOGE 1/298,92 btc 1,82 1,80 0,003311 0,711 btc 1,088 sat ~8sat/8% ~8sat/8% ~9sat/9% LTC 1/360,24 btc 1,51 1,49 0,002741 0,589 btc 0,901 sat ~6sat/6% ~7sat/7% ~8sat/8% So in the ballpark of 8-15 satouchi per 100 sat share per week or 8-15% weekly return on investment if mining dual at the specified rates, if better firmware will be avaliable some seems to think they may produce around 500kh/s scrypt but it may be better to skip the extra 53 watts sha256 mining would add then if they will go up and run at such rates, the added heat in comparison to the return from it will hardly be worth the increase in temperature and risk for failures. Next difficultyincrease for btc looks to be around 25% so when miners arrive the btcmining(SHA256) part will be at around 0.44 usd/day at current usd/btc price. |
|
|
|
|
There seems to be some bug at the moment at btcjam, "prices should be in USD: 999.9999" i haven't seen on the notes pages before, notes is still be priced in btc i so why the USD thing ?
|
|
|
|
Is parseval still updating that site with new stocks that show up and so on the different btcexchanges ? It was/is a nice site he has over there. He seems to have been MIA here on bitcointalk and BTCjam for a while now, hope he's ok and get things sorted out. BDD launched in late January and they're on there, so he must be keeping track of Havelock at least- Oh cool, thats good then. |
|
|
|
Is parseval still updating that site with new stocks that show up and so on the different btcexchanges ? It was/is a nice site he has over there. He seems to have been MIA here on bitcointalk and BTCjam for a while now, hope he's ok and get things sorted out. |
|
|
|
English isen't everyone's first language you know, but there's nothing wrong with my education you can't get much higher actually, but that really has nothing to do with the fact that some of us actually like to prevent newcummers from making huge misstakes in the btcworld.
You seem to live under the spell of the notion that English being one's first language somehow magically bestows upon them linguistic competence. This is utterly false: even kids born in England have to go to grammar school. Not att all but how did you get this... Cryptostocks is a joke.
Any other, better suggestion? The bitcoinstockexchanges is rather limited at the moment unless you only want one that more or less only trades there own stock. Cryptostocks have around 70 stocks but there is many scams and halfscams among them so you really have to be very carefull with what you buy there and CS is hardly doing anything to stop scams from listing there, they only seems interested in getting the 1 btc fee(and getting fees on trades) for listing stocks and probably does zero checkup on the listings. Havelock have 21 stocks and people say there better quality in general on the listings there and from the little i looked at them it may be correct but it also seems like there way worse than what btc-tc/ltcglobal & Bitfunder was before. Crypto-Trade have 4 of there own stocks and some lemon/avocado farmer and AMC, AMC illeagally sold off/dumped "ukyo/ukyo loan investors/weexchange balanceholders" shares without ukyo's permission and then tradestopped the share so the fact that they allowed that hardly makes CT look any better than CS, Then you have Mpex where you can buy 4 of there own stocks if you first pay them 30 btc to be allowed to trade there, Mcxnow have there own share at there exchange, Picostocs have a few stocks but they look even worse than cryptostocks, only 4 out of 39+ listings is till there. ..to have anything to do with grammar, you really have a habit to wander off to something totally different than what the subject was about. |
|
|
|
Then you have Mpex where you can buy 4 of there own stocks if you first pay them 30 btc to be allowed to trade there,
This fundamental misunderstanding of yours was passed off as momentary idiocy the first time, but now I see you're bent on preaching it whenever possible. Failing to understand the marketplace, or the difference between bitcoin's actual stock exchange and the various failed excuses for such passed off by people not at all capable of running such an operation, along with preferring an immediate emotional response to new things over actually reading and learning are all exceptionally shitty ways to go about things. That you've noticed cryptostocks' well-documented failures is fine. That you're demonstrably making an effort to elaborate on the topic is potentially useful. That you stop short of understanding bitcoin finance is your loss, but it doesn't particularly matter. Don't for an instant imagine, however, that your failure qualifies you to present a few soggy scraps as anything other than that. In what way do you mean that it is incorrect that Mpex only have 4 stocks, all owned by the owner of Mpex and that the last time i looked at that site you had to pay 30 btc to be able to trade there, there's nothing whatsoever wrong about that statement. Most likely any btcstockexchange(whether or not you like to call them that MPOE-PR) anywhere in the world is working on the borderline on what's allowed or unregulated territory including the one located in Rumania so there's nothing special about mpex in that matter. If you claim that for some reason that it would be better for people to invest in stocks or something else on mpex then doing carefully selection on what investments and where on other plattfors or avoid investing in anything at all if they don't have the correct knoledge. Then you may kindly explain why and how it would be better for the avg investors as im pretty sure most of them wouldent even have 30 btc so how do you even think they would even be in the target group for your stockexchange, is just redicules. The fact that you claim i don't understand bitcoin finace is just redicules, what do you know about that ? Im pretty sure i make more in 1 year than you will make in a lifetime. But go ahead and keep posting noncence if you like, im sure most people will take it for just that. Wow, stop wasting time in a forum and go get a grade school education. Seriously, it'll change your life or something. English isen't everyone's first language you know, but there's nothing wrong with my education you can't get much higher actually, but that really has nothing to do with the fact that some of us actually like to prevent newcummers from making huge misstakes in the btcworld. Paying 30 btc to get access to trading on mpex would be a huge misstake for 99.99% of all people, especially as some got access to that for free in the beginning. |
|
|
|
Then you have Mpex where you can buy 4 of there own stocks if you first pay them 30 btc to be allowed to trade there,
This fundamental misunderstanding of yours was passed off as momentary idiocy the first time, but now I see you're bent on preaching it whenever possible. Failing to understand the marketplace, or the difference between bitcoin's actual stock exchange and the various failed excuses for such passed off by people not at all capable of running such an operation, along with preferring an immediate emotional response to new things over actually reading and learning are all exceptionally shitty ways to go about things. That you've noticed cryptostocks' well-documented failures is fine. That you're demonstrably making an effort to elaborate on the topic is potentially useful. That you stop short of understanding bitcoin finance is your loss, but it doesn't particularly matter. Don't for an instant imagine, however, that your failure qualifies you to present a few soggy scraps as anything other than that. In what way do you mean that it is incorrect that Mpex only have 4 stocks, all owned by the owner of Mpex and that the last time i looked at that site you had to pay 30 btc to be able to trade there, there's nothing whatsoever wrong about that statement. Most likely any btcstockexchange(whether or not you like to call them that MPOE-PR) anywhere in the world is working on the borderline on what's allowed or unregulated territory including the one located in Rumania so there's nothing special about mpex in that matter. If you claim that for some reason that it would be better for people to invest in stocks or something else on mpex then doing carefully selection on what investments and where on other plattfors or avoid investing in anything at all if they don't have the correct knoledge. Then you may kindly explain why and how it would be better for the avg investors as im pretty sure most of them wouldent even have 30 btc so how do you even think they would even be in the target group for your stockexchange, is just redicules. The fact that you claim i don't understand bitcoin finace is just redicules, what do you know about that ? Im pretty sure i make more in 1 year than you will make in a lifetime. But go ahead and keep posting noncence if you like, im sure most people will take it for just that. |
|
|
|
What made you guys invest in this ?
I'm genuinely asking.
I diden't invest in them and hope others avoid them to. |
|
|
|
I did look at there concept a few years ago and they have an interesting way they work, but i think there a bit concervative in the way the way that it's basically loans for houses in fiat people get there but maby they could start a subdivision for btc. The way there system works is that people start sawing in advance and earn ponts for the time there money has been saved no interest on savings and when you will need a loan(usually when you buy a house or so) you can loan larger amount if you have saved more and for longer time than if you havent saved anything in advance and no interest on the loan either(in reallity it probably works out as you do pay some small fees to have the system pay it's own cost but it should be cheeper than a normal loan), but as there loans is for things in fiat i think it would be problematic for them to have people loan with security in fiat and loan denominated in btc but who knows the fact that ordinary banks is not involved and fees will by low on btctransaction there may be a small niech for them to start making loans in btc to for business in the btcworld if they have members interested in that. |
|
|
|
|
Rent teoretiskt tror jag inte bankerna har rätt eller möjlighet att bete sig så i det långa loppen men det är ju naturligtvis smidigare att andvända banker som inte diskriminerar kunder som köper eller säljer btc från btcexchanges.
|
|
|
|
Under this potential tax treatment, someone using localbitcoins to sell bitcoins would be the equivalent of someone using blocket to sell a car, right? My understanding is MOMS is charged for profits from sales on blocket only above 50.000 SEK (7,500 USD). Only if you are a regular seller of something would you need to report to the tax authorities your yearly profit from person-to-person sales, and that profit would be taxed at a 30% rate. From Blocket.se: Sale of individual items If you sell goods on any single occasion, then the possible profit that exceeds SEK 50 000 is taxed at 30%. Profit is the difference between your purchase price for the goods and the price you then sell the item for. If you have received or inherited what you sell, it is the previous owner's purchase price you should count on. Do not you know the purchase price can make use of a standard value which is 25% of your selling price. 50,000 SEK in profit from one transaction selling bitcoin is one hell of a transaction. My initial question concerned the licence with finansispektionen. Previously a sole trader had to pay 10,000 fee plus around 3,000 annually to be registered so he/she could sell bitcoin in other form not being cash to cash. Now, instead of being a currency Bitcoin is defined as an asset. Does this means finansinspektionen does not oversee Bitcoin/crypto currencies related websites anymore? Or although it is an asset, it is seen as a means of payment, therefore individuals wanting to deal it online still have to register (and pay over 13,000 SEK)? The 50 000 SEK that blocket mentions is a bit taken out of context it comes from the rules that define the border between a hobby and a business, if you earn more than 50 000 SEK(the equivalent of around 7 700 USD) per year on a hobby(or combined on all your hobbys) it should be treated as a business in tax purpose even if you don't handle it as a business and taxes is 30% on the profit you make but there is nothing that say that you have to make over 50 000 SEK profit on a single occasion(that part blocket made up), 50 000 SEK in profit is the amount that your not allowed to exceed in a year to not tax it as a business. There is also some exceptions for selling cone and berries like blueberries and such where small amounts is excepted from taxation. |
|
|
|
The articel said "Sweden is leaning toward an interpretation of Bitcoin that will allow the nation to charge capital gains taxes on any transactions using the software" So first nothing is decided yet, skattemyndigheten has refused to ansewer question about if or how bitcoins should be taken up for taxation in Sweden for years so they really have draged out things a very long time and it most likely will have to stay that way. "view Bitcoins as what we call another asset -- just like art or antiques" Secondly art and stamps coins and such things has had very special rules for quite some time before they got taxed simular to normal assets in Sweden so the fact that they compare it to art in this early stage of trying to draft up rules for btc really dosen't say anything about how BTC will finally be treated. But if they finally will decide to see it as an asset and not like an currency your Bitcoin businesses shouldent need to register at finansinspektionen thats the logical consequence of it so if finansinspektionen still demands registration then there is no change in policy yet. And in the section about miners "Wallin said the question is whether they should be taxed as businesses" About the mining part the only logical thing if someone would have incomes coming from mining and they decide it should be taxeted would be that people would be allowed to deduct the costs they have for buying the hardware for electricity, cost for the location you rent to have the miners in and so on. The problem for skattemyndigheten if they actually decide to try to tax profits on BTC is that they would also have to allow people to taxate losses people had in the btcworld to and the way bitcoins is set up they will never be able to find a working system for it without ending up having Sweden loose millions if not billions on it like they did on the way the rules for art was back in the 90's. So the only logical decition is that the gov will keep things like it is now. No tax on profit and no taxation of losses because there is no way they can make taxation on bitcoins to work and there is no way people would accept to be taxated on profits but not allowed to deduct cost or taxate losses from the btcworld. |
|
|
|
I'm starting to think getcoin365 was just another cryptostocks scam. They've missed their deadline for a second time with no updates, and worst yet there are 0 purchase orders on cryptostocks so investors have no chance to get money back out. When will cryptostocks begin to take responsibility for hosting a site that makes it easy for people to scam people?
Get365 has raised IPO flag sometime after the 4 feb, that clears the exciting order book and no one can put up any sell-orders and you can only put up buy stocks from get365 at there IPOprice. No announcement from get365 that they did raise the IPO flag even. get365 did have open trades for 40+ days before they stopped peoples abillity to freely trade in it. There's one thing if a company already in the contract announces that they will have a IPO flag and for what period it will be like that, then people have a choice whether or not they want to invest in something with no liquidity for a certain period but cryptostocks should still clearly announce such new features and stocks that have the IPO flag active should have a it cleary visible both on the list of projects and on the page you buy there shares. But allowing companys to raise IPOflag at any time without offering anyone thats already invested to sell there stocks as the condition they invested in has changed is totally unresonable that cryptostocks have started to allow that, especially on stocks that was started before the IPOflag excisted. I wounder if cryptostocks like to compensate everyone that possibly might loose bitcoins because of that cryptostock made this change without even announcing it and added the possibillity for scamcompanys to lock shareholders in without any warning whatsoever. Exactly! Being able to raise the IPO flag whenever and with no warning may be good for the "companies" that have shares on cryptostocks but it certainly isn't good for the investor's. I've tried to contact cryptostocks and getcoin365 but I haven't gotten any response from either of them. I guess i'm out my money on this one but cryptostocks will eventually lose all their investors if they continually let fake companies scam people and don't do anything about it. Yea it's really terrible decision cryptostocks made, as it's now it's clearly misused by many companys/issuer as far as i see it and CS should compensate any investors that will get trapped in a potential scam because of it as they haven't announced the change and it's not fair to the investors as it's now. They really need to setup rules for how IPO flags is allowed to be used, for example lets say 4 weeks/1 months warning in advance on coming IPOflags for company with none as verification level and maby just 2 weeks warning for company's that have advanced verification as you as a investor have at least some knowledge about who's behind those company then it would also put some incentive for serious company's to increase there verification level if they feel the need for using IPOflags and have max-lengths for how long a IPO flag can be set lets say max 1 week for company's with none as verification and 2-3 weeks for company's with advanced verification. That would put some reasonable balance between the "company's"/issuers and the investors and still allow those that feel the need to issue some more stocks get some breathing room even if the price they set isn't spot on what the market is allowed to pay for the. This would give a maximum of 1 week IPO 4 week open trade, 1 week IPO 4 week open trade... for a company with none as verification And 2 week IPO 2 week open trade, 2 week IPO 2 week open trade...... for a a company with advanced verification witch i would say balance the interest of the issuer and investors good. The initial IPO flag if company's want to set them immediately at the start of the listing can be slightly longer as people would know what to expect then but still have to be limited to some degree, having IPOflags for many months is not serious in any case so i would say a maximum of 2 weeks for company's with none as verification and 4 weeks for a company with advanced verification. There should also be sent out an automatic announcement when a company sets IPO flag. There should also be a clear indication on company's in the listing of all projects if they have IPOflag set and also clearly shown on the page where you but the company's stocks. As it's now with no indication a person new to CS may not know understand that there stocks will be locked in for an unknown amount of time if they buy into a company and they most likely don't know how to check whether or not a company with only 1 sell-order actually have or not have IPO flag(you can simply put in a sell-order for 100 stock even if you don't have any shares in the company in question) at 500 btc per share or some silly amount and you will get the message "IPO active, you can only place buy orders at the current ask price." but like i say a newbie on CS most likely have no clue to how to find that out. |
|
|
|
Cryptostocks is a joke.
Any other, better suggestion? The bitcoinstockexchanges is rather limited at the moment unless you only want one that more or less only trades there own stock. Cryptostocks have around 70 stocks but there is many scams and halfscams among them so you really have to be very carefull with what you buy there and CS is hardly doing anything to stop scams from listing there, they only seems interested in getting the 1 btc fee(and getting fees on trades) for listing stocks and probably does zero checkup on the listings. Havelock have 21 stocks and people say there better quality in general on the listings there and from the little i looked at them it may be correct but it also seems like there way worse than what btc-tc/ltcglobal & Bitfunder was before. Crypto-Trade have 4 of there own stocks and some lemon/avocado farmer and AMC, AMC illeagally sold off/dumped "ukyo/ukyo loan investors/weexchange balanceholders" shares without ukyo's permission and then tradestopped the share so the fact that they allowed that hardly makes CT look any better than CS, Then you have Mpex where you can buy 4 of there own stocks if you first pay them 30 btc to be allowed to trade there, Mcxnow have there own share at there exchange, Picostocs have a few stocks but they look even worse than cryptostocks, only 4 out of 39+ listings is till there. |
|
|
|
|
Galvin i saw your question in grid's own forum, (i haven't registered there) and you diden't get a good answer there i think. The correct answer is of course if you need the 1 btc you invested back fast and if you bought at the IPOprice 0.000001 then you can just put up a sellorder at 0,000001, there is buyorders for 3,5 million shares(3.5 BTC worth of shares) so it shouldent be any problem for you to get them sold.
If you on the other hand bought at 0.000002(or if you hope to make 1 btc profit and bought at 0.000001) you need keep your sellorder at 0.000002 wait until as many stocks have been bought from the sellorders that equals the amount that was put up at 0.000002 btc before your sellorder, then buy's at 0.000002 start eating into your sellorders.
As soon as the miners arrive and start generating btc's it should go pretty fast i suspect to tear down orders at 0.000002 and quite a bit up.
|
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
