With the current model, DeFi will not able to integrate the 'tokenization of real assets' even if such on-blockchain asset is legally bound. Instead of working on P2P model, DeFi lending platform works on 'liquidity pool' model. Number of lenders together contribute to the pool which is then disbursed to the borrowers accordingly. Hence, there is no clear relationship between the buyer and the seller. It maybe possible that $40,000 I borrowed was contributed by 15 different lenders.

In such scenario, holding and liquidating asset would be impossible because custody of asset cannot be linked to a single individual.

So in short, DeFi model will only work if real value is on blockchain (like tokens) or value is backed by real value (assets created after staking tokens). In order to make tokenization of real assets possible, we will need a middleman who will first take custody of 'digital legally bound on-blockchain asset' on his ETH address. Then he will create another 'set of tokens' whose value will be equal to the value of digital asset less middleman's commission. Then these 'set of tokens' will be distributed to the lenders in ratio of their contribution to the particular loan.

Example: I am a borrower, I want to borrow $250,000 by giving my property having registry value of $320,000 as the collateral. I created smart contract and transferred the rights of my property to the contract address. 10 lenders contributed equally to my loan ($25,000 each) and transferred the amount to the pool' address. Then middleman created another smart contract. DeFi platform sent $250,000 from pool's address to the middleman's contract address. DeFi platform got back 10 TOKENS immediately on its pool address from the middleman's contract address which in turn was sent to each lender's ETH address. Middleman then transferred $250,000 from his contract to my contract address and immediately got my property's digital asset. Now my asset is locked on middleman's smart contract which could only be released once all 10 TOKENS are sent back to the contract address by the lenders.

This system could work out but still be labelled as 'centralized' because custody of property would still be in an individual's control (middleman) even if he won't be able to unlock it from his contract address without lender's permission.

I reported a reply to this thread yesterday for bumping 6 years old thread. Although my report was accepted as 'good' but moderator only decided to delete single post and let the thread run.

In any case, I think there are already many threads and discussions happened on this topic before on bitcointalk as well as on other btc forums.

Apart from technicality, economical impact of shifting from PoW to PoS would be horrendous too. Over the years, mining difficulty has risen many-folds and it has become excessively expensive to mine a block. This has created notional 'production cost' of bitcoin equals to the cost of mining. Now, this cost is an important factor in determining bitcoin market price. I doubt bitcoin would worth $10000-15000 if not for Proof-of-Work.

Shifting the block validation process to the consensus mechanism which costs zero resources to produce new coins will hit the price hard.

"Winner Winner, Chicken Dinner". Finally won a round! As I said earlier, it would take 2-3 rounds to get on track, here is my performance summary:

First 2 rounds - Total Points: 5 Total Correct Predictions: 4/13

Next three rounds: Total Points: 24 Correct Predictions: 17/27 with 8 margin points.

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Manish Pandey showed complete dominance today! He batted with good intent, something which was missing from his batting from long time. Last time I saw him playing with this much maturity was year and half ago in IPL12. That was April 27th 2019, I was with @teosanru and we were enjoying Misal Pao in Pune's local restaurant while watching Manish Pandey's pacy innings. Hope you remember bud 

Good comeback from SRH, hope they would still qualify for play-offs.

The application of DeFi as a lending/borrowing platform has some serious flaws and I doubt it could ever realize as a genuine debt market. The first problem is collateral type. Most of the DeFi lending platforms only accept collateral in ETH blockchain assets which are commonly ERC-20 tokens. So in short, borrower is borrowing one ERC-20 token by staking another ERC-20 token on the platform. That's like taking loan in USD by giving EURO (doesn't make any sense to me). The second problem is collateralization rate. DeFi platform charges collateraliztion rates of as high as 175-200%!! So by giving collateral of $2000 in ETH, you with only get loan of around $1000-1200 in USDT. The third problem is fluctuation rate. In traditional lending market, collateral is generally linked with the purpose of loan, for example, house or car. The market prices of such collateral have low fluctuation rates. However, in DeFi, since collateral is mostly another ERC-20 token, prices of cryptocurrencies are highly fluctuating thus creating potential risk/danger of liquidation of collateral.

On top of that, lenders are paid with fictitious tokens which they can lend further to borrow more thus creating ponzi-like structure. With time, current DeFi lending model is reaching a saturation point even with yield farming and once lenders will fail to reap any more profits, remaining DeFi buzz will end as well.   

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Only application area where I am seeing DeFi making an impact is - derivative and capital market. By lending eth tokens, user can create on-blockchain assets and trade them without actually owning the underlying asset. For example, by lending $2000 in ETH, I will receive $1000 in stablecoin (considering 200% collateralization rate). Then I can use these $2000 to further create asset let say, 'Tesla Share'. Since, current Tesla share price is $433, I will receive 2.31 TESLA on Ethereum blockchain and can sell those on derivative market or use them as collateral for further taking a loan, etc. There are many DeFi platforms emerging with this concept however, for this to work seamlessly, we need high-speed cross-platform APIs providing real-time accurate price data which is very hard to get.

So you are new to the forum and first post you wrote was about the obvious pinned threads which remain at the top of the sections and have much more likeness of getting clicked by the newbies than your so-called newbie guide.

If you are genuinely a new member and want to learn more about bitcoin then create constructive threads regarding your doubts or queries rather than creating these non-valuable threads.

So how many alts accounts do you have? How long are you involved in 'account farming'?

Do you really think you are going to get merit for this thread? Do you think this is the best way to create a new account and get some initial merits?

Nice work like always mate! However, correct twitch channel name is: Globb0

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@Globb0 do tell me the key to accelerate my marble in advance this time, it's painful coming last. I thought it was a simulation game, never knew player can control his marble.

In addition to what everyone wrote above, I would like to add that Copper Membership just offers you additional features. If someone wants to post ANN, he can does that with or without copper membership. Before copper membership was introduced, it was common practice that a high rank member would quote ANN in the first reply to the thread so that the images are visible to everyone.


Opposite in my opinion. If a project has bought a copper membership for its newbie account, I consider it as a sign that the project is serious about promoting on bitcointalk compared to those projects which are happy to post ANN with a non-copper account. At least, it shows that ANN is not created by a 14 years old by copying code from github. In any case, copper membership is irrelevant for making any conclusion about project's legitimacy.

Well, you are comparing an honest attempt of making provably fair slot with the slots provided by stock exchange listed giants like NetEnt. In order to start and run a successful casino gaming development company, you need a team including:

> graphic designers
> software developers
> audio engineers
> mathematicians
> gambling experts
> account managers

Only after having this much talent on board, you can develop breath-taking slots like 'Secret of the Stones', 'Jungle Spirit', etc. Expecting same level of graphics, bonuses, audio, etc from in-house slots developed by casinos themselves is too much of an ask.

At least, they are providing provably fair slot unlike these providers who are still producing RNG based games providing no option to players to manually verify the spins. 

Thanks for your valuable insights @Rhavar, it's always great to hear things from the creator himself!


Well, hash chain is a popular method used in cryptography and has several applications outside gambling. I am not sure if it is Dooglus who invented this method. But still kudos to him for suggesting the applicability of hashchain in bustabit provably fair script.

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So in short, can we say casinos should always keep the hash chain on a machine physically owned by them? If casinos are using web hosting or other cloud solutions, they should only upload hashes for every Nth game on the live database. Rest should be securely kept on an offline storage machine.

Thanks for the clarification on bots.

EOS Network itself is an ideal blockchain for creating gambling dapps but off-chain solution currently in use on DuelBits is adequate as well so no problem. However, I am still not convinced about using EOS for fairness especially when only block hash is to be used in 'provably fair script'. There is no way a player can ensure that EOS block is picked randomly and not after test-checking the other variables with different blocks. If you think Ethereum block time would kill the pace of the game then best solution is 'TRON'. New Tron block is validated after every 3 seconds elapsed. That would be sufficient for a player to manually check that immediately next or mostly 2nd or 3rd block validated after last player joined is used in the calculation. It will kill any advantage available for house to cheat as well as won't kill the enjoyment for the players.

Also, can you tell which timestamp does the 'Bet History' shows:



Is it the time at which I join the duel or when result starts to draw or when drawing process is over or when duel is created by the creator? If possible, can you provide the timestamp on the round pop-up screen (this screen: https://duelbits.com/duels/297390) for every round right after last player joins in and right before block hash is retrieved so player can compare the timestamp of retrieving process with the timestamp of validation of block chosen in case you decide to go with TRON blockchain. 

Yeah! BTCGosu is becoming a bigger and genuine gambling community, thanks to @efialtis. So I am ready to help anyone who has any doubt regarding any aspect of gambling in general or any specific casino. I have received couple of PMs from FortuneJack players last week seeking answers on slot working, etc. Considering everything, btcgosu's Telegram channel would be best place to get your doubts solved. If anyone has any doubt, please join and ask your query in this group: https://t.me/btcgosu . Me and others will try our best to show you directions. Hope efialtis won't have any problem using gosu telegram for this purpose. : )

Frankly speaking, everyone's choosing heavy-weights but the best performers for the first matchday are going to come from comparatively weaker teams. Sevilla FC vs Chelsea is good match to pick someone on board, I have made one selection from this game.

And as far as Messi, Ronaldo and Salah are concerned,

Ronaldo is Corona positive and 100% won't play.
Barcelona is facing Ferencvaros and I am pretty sure Barcelona won't risk Messi in the starting lineup when El Clasico and Juventus clash are scheduled within a week. Most prolly Barca's front-line today will be Ansu Fati, Dembele and Trincao. (Enough chances to Griezmann, let the youngsters take the charge today).

So if someone has Messi, Ronaldo and Kevin De Bruyne on team, he's already done for the first matchday.

Hey @duelbits,

I was trying the 'Dice Duels' with $0.50 promo and I have few doubts regarding the site's working:

1. What is the rule of 'bots' joining the duel? Is there any waiting time frame for the real players to join the duel before bots come in? What's the procedure?

2. How is the real users' position determined in case bots join the duel? I noticed that in one round bots were sitting on the first two positions while in the other round bots were sitting on 2nd to 10th position (refer images for more details):




3. How is the EOS block ID retrieved after last participant joins in? Is it retrieved from self-running node or third-party API? Don't you think simply using EOS Block ID may not be the best way to ensure fairness since around 2 new EOS blocks are created every second which potentially gives enough room to test-check dice values with different Block hashes and choose the EOS Block which favors the bot's position in the duel? For example, after all players join in, script calculates result with EOS Block No. 147976879 to 147976890 (it will only take 4-5 seconds to do so) and then pick the block let say, 147976884 among 12 tested blocks which generates dice value that favors the bot's position. There is no way a player can verify that immediately created new EOS Block is used in the calculation! Don't you think using Ethereum Block hash would be better alternative since new Ethereum block is mined after 10-60 seconds which gives enough time to the player to manually check whether the new block hash mined immediately after the last player joined is used for calculating the dice value or not?

4. Do the positions of the players or bots change after the result is calculated?

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That's absurd and ridiculous! You are doubting a casino because you think it's giving very less amount in promo!! How mean can you be as a player, lol. It's just a promo code for inviting players to test the platform. $0.50 is generous amount in my opinion as a promo code. You can easily test and try all games on the platform with that money. I have seen other casinos giving $0.05-0.10 in promo codes.

Well, you have posted in Beginners & Help section so...

List of Crypto Wallet Aggregators, what are we going to see next, list of lists of Crypto Wallet aggregator?

Joke aside, nice work on aggregating all these links but I sincerely doubt if anybody would really be needing all of those. Moreover, in the past I have noticed that some sites promote sponsored wallets in such lists. 'Choose your wallet' function provided by Bitcoin.org is more than enough IMO and good starter tool for the bitcoin newbies.

Providing all those links will just create unnecessary problem of choice for the reader.

As we all know, hashchain is commonly used in multiplayer games like Crash where each successive hash is a SHA256 hash of the previous hash and then hashes are used in reverse order as the server seed.

However, unlike data fields like password which are input by the players and can be encrypted using bcrypt or other encryption because encrypted data is compared with the user's input on login, the same cannot be applied to the hashchain.

So my question is for the casino owners or anyone who has knowledge about casino backend development. Please provide your insights on the following questions, it could be helpful for the community:

Q. Do you keep th entire hashchain on the live database or only a chunk for next 100-200 rounds?
Q. Do you keep bare hashes or encrypted? If encrypted then using which encryption and how is the hash decrypted before each round?
Q. How do you keep hashchain secure?
Q. Has your hashchain ever compromised? If yes, how did you tackle the hack?
Q. It may be possible that a player got hold of the hashchain. In such condition,  he may smartly use hashes and make infinite profits on games like Crash. So do you regularly check players' accounts and scrutinise whether someone making huge profits? If yes then did you replace your hashchain considering the possibility of compromise?

(self-mod to remove irrelevant answers)

It seems like you are gonna end 10th this time and me 11th. Good luck to the remaining players.

I just ran by numbers and found that I still got a chance to make to the championship! First 6 players have already made to the finals. 7th is almost confirmed as well. That leaves seven players contesting for the last 2 spots. Efialtis and 1r0n1c stated earlier that they won't be playing the upcoming qualifier which leaves only 4 players fighting for the spot. Now considering that 15 players will play tonight's game, here is my chances to make to the finals:

Probability of winning the qualifier = 6.67%. If won, probability of making to the championship = 55.621%. Net Probability = 3.70%
Probability of coming second in the qualifier = 6.67%. If second, probability of making to the championship = 40.828%. Net Probability = 2.723%
Probability of coming third in the qualifier = 6.67%. If third, probability of making to the championship = 26.036%. Net Probability = 1.7365%

There is also a probability to make to the championship if I come 4th - 7th but chances are below 1% so I won't consider those.

Hence, the total probability of me making to the championship is 8.1635% (1 in 12 chance). Worth an effort in my opinion, what do you say guys?

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Hey Globb0,
Do you accept btc? I checked your channel last night but Twitch charges 40% commission on 'Bits', not worthy! Also, I don't wanna tip via PayPal due to privacy reasons. If possible, add your btc address on the channel.

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This further increases by probability.  Jk aside, you will be missed.

Heard from Chips.gg earlier today that they have added 'Next Server Seed Hash' field in the Provably Fair Section in the recent update as following:



Now user can copy and keep the hash of the next server seed before changing the client seed and make sure that Chips.gg has zero control on the result in case of 'Dice' - The Original Chips.gg game.

This option is present in the back-end right from the beginning so the game 'was and is always' provably fair. It's just now that player can see the next server seed in front-end too (which was necessary IMO).

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PS: Congo @SyGambler. Really happy for you. It's a big win. Hope to see you on poker table soon. : ))