Now on to the winner: the small bitcoin prize is won by "sadpandatech", I surely hope this issue gets some attention in the next years before some individual or organization manages to exploit human race with their technology  What do I get for editing his post? (or is the cake a lie?) Good job, sadpandatech. Very nice post. Bruno a Thank You will do... ?  |
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the small bitcoin prize is won by "sadpandatech", I surely hope this issue gets some attention in the next years before some individual or organization manages to exploit human race with their technology |
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i heard of it at the start of 2009 when it was basically worthless.
but didn't buy my first coins until i heard of it again in April this year.
oops.
+1 same here heh, lots of wasted time with a disgraceful person... |
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yeah haha, you took it to the next level, good imagination, but didn't actually respond to one or two questions in the first post  Could it be a problem? No, scarcity IS the problem. What would I use as a store of value? Artificially scarce goods, land, and computers. Could Bitcoin be our Latinum? Possibly, but I'd think of it more like the Federation Credit since most people wouldn't need much. i have no intent bashing your post or anything else and i really liked the future you "painted" in there but you missed the whole point by not weighting bitcoin utility into it. Bitcoin, linded dollars, etc can't be the source of value, we are  Let's have a look at second post... Could it be a problem?
No, scarcity IS the problem. Having finite things in this world makes us feel good, secure and in control. Don't confuse with raw resources or food only. 1 kilometer is finite, scarce. 1 second goes same way too. Imagine i say that plane goes infinite kilometers per infinite seconds...  you would be pissed as hell at me talking nonsense What would I use as a store of value?
Artificially scarce goods, land, and computers. Land isn't viable as a currency only if you carry a hand of dirt in your pockets and people start accepting it as money, computers can and will be replicated in infinite amounts just like dirt... Could Bitcoin be our Latinum?
Possibly, but I'd think of it more like the Federation Credit since most people wouldn't need much. Could be true, but as a young captain in command of a stellar ship you will want to watch some movies, read books or listen to music, from time to time, made by your fellow humans that live few light years away back on Earth. Dunno if stellar torrents will exist by then but i suppose some public services will allow you to purchase those goods and you will have to pay with something to show your gratitude to them for creating that stuff... i could go on like this for hours |
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I have to say this was a group idea put together in the Spanish forums... How about having a new client-software called "Market" (or p2pMarket) that could enable us making real p2p trading ? It could employ the same coin system we're used to, just like Namecoin for example, enabling people publish their services and products and protect the system from spammers. The coins would be mined just like in the original bitcoin protocol, packs of 50 coins in every 10 minute block, but preferably using a CPU mining algo because it wouldn't require huge amounts of hashing power to maintain the system and it's main use would be from desktop client software run by peers that are actively trading with it. It would have to have a private and public messaging service based on PGP keys, enabling us have authenticated and secure communications, with a small coin cost per message too. The voting system would require some special attention though because any member can get positive votes and transaction would end without issues but negative ones would require some 3rd peer involved, arbitrage or judging, to prevent false negative votes ruining impeccable reputations without cost. The solution to that is to have a random peer as "judge" in case a negative vote is issued. Having an option in the software client that makes you available as arbiter ("judge") in those cases would be preferred. The whole process is really straight forward and it can be like this: "unhappy" buyer issues a negative vote with it's comments to the whole network and hopes it gets included in the next block, just like listings, messages and others. An unknown person mining for blocks that has the "judge" option enabled in it's client would receive that "negative-vote-transaction" and will modify it, or sign it, in such a manner that enables him as judging peer over the issue. He must broadcast a winning block first containing that "special" transaction. The "judge" of a dispute is the first "judge-miner" that successfully mines a block with the "special" transaction in it. Evidence and messages can be changed over the system letting both parties make a case and try convince the "judge" being legal or right with their claims. The "judge" would have to make it's mind on the issue and broadcast to the whole network his decision to be included in the next block. To incentive any person take a "judge" role the fee "prize" for a ruling could be set a little more higher than normal transactions and message fees gathered by miners. The "judges" could have a separate voting system on them, just like youtube vids, enabling us know something about their experience too. The ideal (p2p)Market software should have the ability to: - publish user postings that sell product or services with a max char limit (ex 500 chars) but without censoring content (that should be done in a thumbs up-down "youtube style" way) - index all blockchain contents and should be easy to search or filter by category, seller, country, reputation, etc. - use PGP messaging system (atm is being implemented in the bitcoin client based on the key-pairs generated internally) - maintain an on-line reputation based on voting with comments (ebay style) - mediate disputes (a must if we want the system to maintain itself) Hope i get some good feedback on this. I don't code but it is seems a plausible idea to a few forum members, me included. I pledge 5 bitcoins for this atm, hope I can manage to buy some more in the future and add to the pledge (original idea thread, i only came up with the "judge" proposal) |
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ack HolodeckJizzmopper & martychubbs and thanks for joining in c00w will merge the changes when he gets online |
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The site says most were military as would be expected. Some *could be* solar cell efficiency related which is related to military satellites not ground based power. But your own source list only 11 "John Doe" Secrecy Orders (imposed on private inventors) http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/invention/stats.htmlWhat is the chance that one of these is mystical free energy? Vs say the chance that they are rednecks making things that go boom? more than 50% chance i'd say. GPS system was designed for military use at first so a "solar cell efficiency related which is related to military satellites" is not a reason to withhold the technology... |
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Rabble, grammar, rabble.
Fixed! One period and two commas inserted. Forgiven! The quoted post was replicated but needed modifications. Spanx ya, Bruno!  actually the "rambling" you posted sadpandatech is the best answer we got on this atm. In present we use "money" as measurement of energy spent (physical work) in a determined amount of time. Having infinite energy in the equation i guess will not work with future money so what if we replace that with (energy * intelligence) + time = finite money . Our race actually has a finite amount of people in existence so then our combined intelligence is finite. Hope you get my point, the bitcoin is already yours if no one has anything to say against it |
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I think that in a distant future like the one you are describing money will simply not be necessary.
The only reason to store value is so that you can obtain goods at some point in the future when you think you might have some scarcity.
With that kind of technology there is no scarcity to be expected ever so there is no personal reason to store value (for large groups or society as a whole that may be different matter).
I consider Bitcoin a transitory technology which will bring us from the current fiat money system to a world without money, a gift economy.
Agree, you actually half true, we will continue needing a store of value, monetary system, like today only not for buying gas, food, raw materials or tools, instead buy paintings, songs, movies, anything another fellow human created or give coins in exchange for services they do for you. You need it to be artificially scarce enabling all humans measure their wealth easily... Right now i'm paying a bitcoin for the time a person spent writing a good post, do you think anyone would do that if they don't get something of value in return ? |
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in there for a reason My friend, then Energy would be the store of wealth. The input would be the store of wealth if it's energy, uranium, water or coffee grounds.. In this case without energy the replicator won't work... So the guy that has control of the energy needed is the guy that can charge for it... in bitcoins Amigo, the energy cannot ever be a store of value if it's infinite. I really don't want to get into details about "free energy" devices but they are actually able to work in a feedback loop so you will only have to put a small amount of energy to start them up. The human mind cannot cope with infinite amounts, look at what is happening with the paper money issued by the Fed or ECB. |
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I think what you describe would be a practically post-scarcity society. In such a place, the main source of value would be goods with artificial scarcity, like Second Life items and Bitcoin. If the cost of energy is significant, then it would be a good source of value too, so people would trade in joules stored somehow. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_scarcityLand would also retain its value, since the total mass of the Earth (and hopefully density!) would remain unchanged. Land owners could rent the area as smart property to facilitate rapid land-backed transactions. You can just break an improvement down into energy to move easily, so switching costs would be close to nil. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Smart_PropertyMy guess is that by the time this happens, people might become "uploads", having scanned their brains and emulated them on computers. In this case, computing power would be the greatest asset. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_uploading If this is sci-fi enough, I'm 13K6ukroqbAcajtNezR4G8w94DyX96kVMK yeah haha, you took it to the next level, good imagination, but didn't actually respond to one or two questions in the first post |
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Honest answer? Something that can be replicated with the push of a button won't be a store of value... because everyone can replicate it. The store of value in the case described above would be the replicator machine itself or better said the inputs that it creates the objects from. Let's say that a replicator machine can make anything out of silver, uranium and water. The store of value in that case would be silver, uranium and water... because those materials would be in demand to feed all the replicator machines. I hope I got my BTC send bitcoin to : 17KxFiNCwDXdxDxUMhWb7RLj7REnSJ1M8P e-mail bitcoin to : president@yooter.com send bitcoin to ID : president any method works To answer your question if the Bitcoin can be our latinum .. technically yes... if it was appended to an input. You could theoretically ping a btc (or fraction of bitcoin, or in 100 BTC to one unit of input) and people could trade it that way on an exchange or person to person. Make it so number 1...4th star to the left. indeed, most extensive answer till now but you forgot one detail though... it would create matter, silver, uranium or water from pure energy gathered from the vacuum around it. The analogy with the "replicator" is just an example, the real technology enabling us do all of that would not have to "dematerialize" any material thing we know. My post has... in there for a reason i will wait for a few more theories, if any is posted, before paying you... if you don't mind |
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Less chance than breaking SHA256 or ECDSA.
hope so... |
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First. Do I get the 1 BTC ? you wish , add some value to your post... |
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If someday we manage to create matter from energy with methods within reach for everyone, could it be a problem ? Maybe critics will find intrinsic value of bitcoin at last. I don't want to go too sci-fy here but recent discoveries made me believe we may have star-trek "replicators" more close than we thought... linkImagine a world, 50 years from now, in which everyone has it's personal "replicator" just the size of a microwave oven where he can push some buttons and replicate any material thing you can think of like food, raw metals, tools, you name it [edit->] with pure energy gathered from the surrounding vacuum. In that case what would you use as store of value ? Could bitcoin be our latinum ? (Best documented post, and on topic, gets 1 bitcoin from me. All members take part at voting the best one by quoting it.) edit: bitcoin won by "sadpandatech" |
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Anyone having luck mining at MTRed with 2.5.5 ?
I'm getting an API Error "hashrate" not found.
{"balance":"0.0","unconfirmed":"0.00000000","rsolved":"102","NMCbalance":"10.0","NMCunconfirmed":"0.00000000","NMCrsolved":"102","server":{"mhash":1145.3246122667,"rsolved":"102"},"workers":{"x":{"mhash":1145.3246122667,"rsolved":"102"}}}
EDIT: Trying MTred, instead of Eligius as my backup pool for a bit, fwiw. I can mine just fine as a backup, but not getting any share update info.
I just downloaded/installed bithopper for the first time, and I usually mine at mtred.com. I'm also seeing the same thing as you; [01:07:01] mtred api error:'hashrate'they probably changed something on the page, they made lots of changes in there lately and i cannot see the share count anywhere  |
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anyone who have any data on how this free energy stuff will affect mining?
that will not be a real problem because "free energy" miners would have to amortize their investment and coins would have minimum value imposed by them, the real problem would be, and maybe critics will find intrinsic value of bitcoin too, when we manage to create matter from energy with methods within reach for everyone. I don't want to go too sci-fy here but recent discoveries made me believe we may have star-trek "replicators" more close than we thought... linkImagine a world, 50 years from now, in which everyone has it's personal "replicator" just the size of a microwave oven where he can push some buttons and replicate any material thing you can think of like food, raw metals, tools, you name it. In that case what would you use as store of value ? Could bitcoin be our latinum ? |
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Me gusta la idea. Supongo que algo así va a ser imprescindible a la larga.
+1, hace dias estaba pensando en lo mismo, que pena que nunca aprendi programar Mi ideea fue un poco diferente la verdad... tener un nuevo programa-cliente llamado Mercado (Market) a secas, que utilice el mismo sistema de monedas, como namecoin por ejemplo, que gastariamos en publicar anuncios (anti-spam). Las monedas se podrian minar igual en bloques de 50 utilizando un algoritmo preferiblemente solo para CPU's, ya que no harian falta mucha potencia de calculo para mantener el sistema y se utilizaria solo un cliente de escritorio no una mina como en bitcoin. Tambien tendria que llevar el sistema de mensajeria privada o publica basada en claves PGP para poder autenticar la fuente del mismo y cada mensaje llevaria su costo corespondiente. El sistema de votacion seria un poco mas dificil ya que un voto positivo se podria poner en un momento y la transaccion terminada con exito pero los votos negativos necesitan un poco mas de atención, justo porque un comprador malvado podria tirar abajo una reputación impecable sin problemas. Haria falta un sistema de arbitraje, entre las dos partes de una transaccion, por un tercero. Lo que se me ocurrio fue tener una opcion en el cliente que indique si estamos dispuestos arbitrar disputas o no. En caso de disputa (voto negativo) rellenada por un comprador se mandaria a toda la red para que sea incluida en el siguinte bloque, igual que los anuncios, mensajes o votos positivos. La primera persona que consiga minar un bloque y tenga la opción de arbitraje habilitada incluira en su bloque una transaccion especial de arbitraje pasando a ser el juez de la misma. Se podrian cambiar mensajes, pruebas y cualquier otra cosa que ayude a cada parte convencer al "juez" que lleva razon. Al final de la disputa el "juez" decidira si se aplica el voto negativo o no incluyendo su decision en el siguiente bloque que mine o haciendo otra transacción especial y enviandola a la red para que se incluya en el siguiente bloque. Para incentivar a cualquier persona arbitrar disputas podria llevar un premio mas consistente que un anuncio o transacción normal, o que sea igual que la mitad de la recompensa de bloque. Cada "juez" ademas de su reputación de comerciante tendria otra basada en los votos de la gente, igual que los votos de videos en youtube, con negativos positivos y comentarios que nos haria una ideea sobre sus habilidade para hacer justicia. El programa de p2pMarket ideal tendria que tener: - publicación de anuncios con limite de tamaño y sin restricciones de texto (500 caracteres como has dicho shackra) - los mensajes deberian poder ser buscables y/o filtrados por categoria, vendedor, pais, reputacion, etc. - mensajeria PGP (actualmente estan implementando en el cliente Bitcoin esta opcion y la clave publica seria una direccion normal) - reputación por votos con comentario (estilo ebay) - arbitraje de disputas (imprescindible para que el sistema no se venga abajo) Perdon por el toston pero llevo dias pensando en el tema y me parecio un buen hilo para postearlo. Estoy totalmente de acuerdo shackra que tenemos que mantenernos descentralizados para tener exito (posteado en el foro ingles @ https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50566) |
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no te digo nada solo que empieces a gastar , yo gastare mis bitcoins en lo que me apetezca y cuando me apetezca no tiene que venir alguien para decirme que tengo que gastar mas. La monedas se estan repartiendo de manera uniforme y previsible, ningun problema, la gente empieza acceptarlos por sus productos y servicios una vez que tenga la confianza de hacerlo, ningun problema alli tampoco. No he nacido hace mas de 100 años para saber como deberia funcionar una sistema asi, como el del oro por ejemplo, pero puedo decir tranquilamente que funciona como debe hacerlo. La gente esta en la fase de acumulación, inflacionaria, del principio. Una vez que dependan mas del sistema vamos a ver como incrementa el numero de transacciones en toda la red. Es una reacción natural del ser humano. |
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I'm not skeptical at all, i believe it's possible it works and can be a revolutionary technology but i refuse to use another "device" that creates it's energy based on some material element, few grams of nickel is used by this cold fusion device. Nickel is cheap but in case this technology is adopted could be the next "fossil fuel" if you ask me with all the bad things that will bring. We already have inventions that create lots more and don't have to use nothing in the process, they are being kept secret by gov all over the world, and seeing a device like this being publicized should rise some alerts for ppl. We are prohibited even experimenting with free energy devices and scientists all over the world, funded by big business, spend most of their time bashing and denying it's existence with their flawed laws and shit. The first and second laws of thermodynamics are valid and will be forever but are mistakenly interpreted or applied, you have to look at the "big" picture when measuring energy put into and output of a device. The vacuum is full of "static" energy that enters freely in every device we make. The basic principle in every OU device, mechanic, electric or chem, is a very efficient oscillator (pendulum) or swing that you have to "push" at it's resonant frequency to have it build huge amounts of energy that you can have for free. We see free energy devices all day long in the parks but don't stop to think how they really work Sorry for the long post but i had to say all this. Wow, that post is loaded with crap. Where to start? Okay, I will look at the example of a kid on a playground. The kid sits on a swing, pumps their legs, and starts moving, seemingly getting free energy. Have you seen how much sugar kids eat? The kid is burning chemical energy taken in from food to pump the muscles at the resonant frequency. It is not energy for free, it is changing potential energy (chemical) into kinetic energy (movement). eh take it easy on concepts, you're mixing the source of the energy that a kid has cumulated as potential with the impulse given to the swing at resonance (first 25% of it's travel). Imagine i put an electromagnet, instead of a kid, at one side of the swing, how much sugar we would have to put into it to make it work... |
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