7970 is 250W,  7990 is 375W.  They are also designed by AMD with 3 decades of experience.  The 7990 was delayed 6 months due to issues AMD had with power/cooling.

Refund?  Lol, there's no more PayPal this time.  No more refunds.

I'm not clear on why people say that BFL is a scam. I guess their definition of scam is different from mine.

To me, a scam would be taking pre-orders without ever intending to ship anything. BFL is shipping miners, right? So, what is the scam that they are accused of?

This.  A board with lower wattage, hashing power, and cost makes perfect sense in all areas but one.

If BFL needs money flowing in (not out) then offering something like 100 GH/s card @ 87W and $899 won't help.

Someone with a 60GH single ($1500?) would likely hedge their bets asking to upgrade it to 100 GH/s card and get a partial refund.  Even those who truly upgraded to say 2 cards would only mean a token amount of new money $300 coming in.

The stupidly high wattage, high price single offering (w/ 10% upgrade fee as an added insult) is designed to ensure most upgrades will result in significant additional revenue.  This is what BFL needs and why the next gen was offered like this.  It also leaves though who don't upgrade in a tight spot.  If competitors don't make your un-upgraded BFL rig obsolete (and a net negative profit), BFL own 2nd gen product will. 

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.   The smart thing to do would be to seek a refund.  No BFL "all sales are final" have no merit when they haven't yet shipped and have missed their own shipping schedule.  A sale occurs when money AND product change hands.  BFL doesn't have sales, they have orders and the UCC doesn't allow "all orders are final w/ no exemptions for non-delivery".

My guess if BFL is betting that most users will opt to upgrade rather than cancel.

I bought 10 block eruptors for around 1k and I was going to be making a bitcoin every 15 days. Now it has gone up to every 30 days! What is all that about? No way I am going to get my ROI. Plus the eruptors are much cheaper now so more people will buy them then difficulty rating will go up. I may have we'll flushed my money down the toilet. My next 1k I spend will actually be on buying bitcoins not this ASIC rubbish its a fools game

Oh man, NO, not fraud and theft!!!  I was hoping it was like a triple homicide or something.  You know, a crime of passion - a one time deal.  Usually guys who commit fraud don't stop.  Man....add another red flag.


Or maybe he learned his lesson.....

Who exactly is Sonny? Don't tell me he's the founder or the CEO.  It Explains why management tolerated Josh.

What did sonny do exactly to get in trouble?

If I was forced to bet on it, I would have to take the affirmative position.  Look on the bright side-this mean less hardware will be coming online this year, Thank you BFL.

this thread is getting ugly.....  why does no one factor in a bitcoin price increase and only a difficulty increase on the charts....

People are complaining because they think that only the first people who ordered SC Singles will ever make a positive ROI. Wouldn't the same be true for these? The first people who buy these 2nd gen products will be the most profitable, but if you order 6 months from now (when they may or may not be shipping) you may or may not make a positive ROI?

If that's the case, why wouldn't people buy them now?

Re: New monarch line

I would just like to point out from different sources, that BFL has shipped about 10-15% of all there pre-orders.   If you didn't know, BFL pulled this same tactic when they announced their ASIC line when they were still months and months behind on their FPGA line (Bitforce).   With how oversold their delivery schedule is, it makes sense BFL would announce this in the face of rapidly rising difficulty.  

I suspect many of there pre-order will have a negative ROI soon so they "had" to do this to give the people a distraction from the real issues.   Many may disagree but I see the same road heading to the same wall again.  


Your  public service announcement
-Dalkore

I pre-ordered multiple ASIC SCs, and I've received most of them. The rest were ordered later, and they haven't gotten to them yet.

Out of all the hardware being offered, this new Monarch's claimed specs seem to be the most profitable, and I don't imagine any new hardware coming along and changing that.

(KNC is also 28nm, but it's not a full-custom chip. BitFury is a fully-custom chip, but it's only 45nm, not 28nm. Both are just starting to roll out, and neither has any units in customer's hands. Avalon or ASICMiner could die-shrink, but I don't think that will help. They'd have to redo everything to accommodate a larger, multiple-hashing-core design.)

So they have a spotty track record, but they've always delivered. They seem to have the best product for sale (or pre-order, depending on how you look at it). Why shouldn't I buy one? Or 10?

No one? The only thing I seem to be reading in this thread is the same old bullshit I've been hearing since I started looking into them over a year and a half ago.

In the wild, they're referred to as "Cunts".

Thank you for saying this!  No one seems to understand this concept at all.

At this time, there's an extreme amount of hatred towards BFL, orders that were ordered a year ago still have not arrived, etc.

I'm going to play the other end of story. I converted an order I had into a Monarch, perhaps a bit reluctantly.

Right now, they are in the tapeout process, so they are making some good progress.

The important point, however, is that this device has a few key differences from their previous product production runs. First, a large supply issue for BFL this round was the power supplies. This card doesn't need a power supply, and instead relies on a user-supplied PSU. They already have drivers made, and will likely only need to tweak their existing software to support the new architecture. They have more production employees right now than they ever had before, and they've worked through the kinks of ASIC production before, and at least have a bit of knowledge going into this second round that they were lacking when they were going into the first round.

If you have an order from 2013, it may make sense for you to upgrade. By the time those devices arrive, they may be fairly useless. Assuming a 50% growth rate per month until the end of the year, if you receive your 60GH/s ASIC in early October, it's very likely that, especially for the devices you paid $2,500 for, you will never see that money fully returned by the device. The monarch is still a wildcard, and in the event that it goes correctly, converting your current order to a Monarch, especially if you don't have to pay much extra money to cover the bridge, will likely be beneficial. However, if the monarch is late, and all the other ASIC companies like KnCMiner, HashFast, xCrowd(.co.uk), Bitfury, etc. deliver on time and in spec, then the monarch will be essentially useless.

I'm not saying to buy one, but if they actually do ship by the end of the year, you heard it here first. If they don't, just quietly forget this thread.

His fake quote of something I've never said deserves that reply.

Preorder by BTC only. No refunds.