Are they seriously asking for all this information for all pre-sale participants? |
|
|
|
1 - Your current sale is no different to what you are describing. You currently use 2 currencies (ETH + BTC) and 2 blockchains. If you used a Smart Contract you would still use 2 currencies (ETH + BTC) and 2 blockchains. There is no difference, apart from more security for you investors when using a Smart Contract, because then the token release is automatic. Now every investor has to trust you, that you will do as promised. This is the exact opposite of what the Smart contracts was designed for. And your point about fraud is equally relevant with or without Smart contracts. Actually it is more likely without a Smart Contract.
2 - I am not arguing over the existence of all investors' ether transactions. My point is that no tokens has been created. Please explain to me what Your token balance: XXXX means exactly. What tokens are these?
3 - You will be using ERC-20 tokens, but you won't be using a Smart Contract?
1) In our previous posts, we have already explained you the technical details and our approach, and how it will protect our investor. There is no need to repeat it twice or even three times. It is based on the many-years-successful expertise of our team, that we totally trust and believe in. The investor trusts the project and the team behind it. And we have it all. We do appreciate your opinion and respect it. We are also kindly asking you to respect bitcointalk participants and do an effort not using red colors while expressing your opinion. Thank you in advance. 2) The token balance on the account is a number of tokens that the investor will receive on his personal respective cryptocurrency wallet by the end of DMarket Tokens Sale phase #2 Everything is clear, transparent and equal for all DMarket investors. 3) . It is based on smart-contract technology as every token on ETH network. Once again: the combination of our service and smart contract technology of token sale will guarantee simplicity, reliability, clarity, and safety of the contributions and token accrual to the personal wallets of contributors. 1 - I appreciate you trying to explain it, but what you are saying still makes no sense and the reasons behind are invalid. You again failed to provide a valid reason why your method is better than a Smart Contract. 2 - That is the reason I said the number is cosmetic. There is no such token created yet = there are no transactions associated with it. 3 - You are absolutely contradicting yourself. First you say " As the Ethereum smart contract won’t be driving the marketplace, we’ve chosen the simplest and the safest way for token distribution during the token sale." and then you say " We will use a smart contact to distribute our tokens after the Token Sale phase#2" I see that a lot of people trust you, but when you fail to provide clear answers then for me that's a sign to be vigilant and I urge all your investors to so the same.The facts are: 1 - There is no valid reason not to have used a smart contract during the sale. 2 - I asked twice if akhavr was part of your team and you chose to be silent about it and neither confirm it, nor deny it. This clearly shows a lack of transparency. |
|
|
|
Hi! Thanks for the questions.
We don’t use the smart contract technology on the first stage. We have developed our own service which
allows us to process incoming transactions from different blockchains because smart contracts at Ethereum
can’t control transactions on bitcoin blockchain. The decision to develop our service can be supported by
the fact that the software used on the main computer has been developed for decades, while the Ethereum
smart contracts appeared only a couple years ago.
2. Our service is monitoring all incoming transactions to our accounts. The service accrues tokens to the
contributors’ accounts and saves this in the database according to the token sale policy, as described on our
landing page. The contributors can see the amount of accrued tokens on their profile pages. If a contributor
would like to check the accuracy of the token accrual, they can compare the correctness of the calculations
with the information from the blockchain. In this case, the blockchain is the source of the primary data.
4. The service described above also helps us check every transaction twice before sending the tokens and
therefore ensure the safety of gathered tokens. All transactions done by the rules of the service will be
taken into account in full.
5. At that, we are planning on using a simplified smart-contract based on the OpenZeppelin framework (see
GitHub V2) at the end of the second stage of the token sale, which will allow us to solve two main issues:
1) Implementation of the ERC20 interface, which will allow trading our tokens on the external stock
markets.
2) Accrual of the tokens bought by contributors to their wallets using the smart contract feature.
As a result, the combination of our service and smart contract technology of token sale will guarantee
simplicity, reliability, clarity, and safety of the contributions and token accrual to the personal wallets of
contributors.
1 - That makes no sense. You can still use a smart contract for the Ether payments and your own system for the BTC payments. The benefit for your investors is that with a smart contract your tokens will be automatically and certainly distributed, while with your approach there is only a promise and nothing else. The whole point of using a smart contract is to avoid the middle man, which is you. You offer a project based on the Ethereum network, yet you don't use the one benefit it provides. That is counter-intuitive and can be interpreted as a possibility to scam. 2 - The blockchain only shows how much Ether you have received from each investor. No tokens exist yet, so the balance on your website is purely cosmetic. 4 - How can you possible believe that your manual approach is more secure than an automated contract? You are basically denying the underlying principle behind the Ethereum network. 1) Our token sale is currently available for two currencies, and we are going to add more options to choose from for the second round. A smart contract doesn’t allow to work directly with other blockchains. As we’ve already noted, it can include only one cryptocurrency. In this case, ETH. Unfortunately, not all of the investors are working with Ether. Those, who prefer other options, have to search for a way to transfer their coins to Ether, create an Ethereum wallet and invest in the ICO. We believe that all the investors should have equal opportunities. We decided on the current method based on a unified approach for every customer and the simplicity of the investment process. Unfortunately, even the smart contract doesn’t eliminate the possibility of fraud or scammers. Moreover, recently there were safety concerns with the usage of smart contracts. 2) You can use other sources - they will show you the same numbers. Calling it “cosmetic” equals to calling every blockchain transaction “cosmetic” as there is no access to the account. 3) As the recent months demonstrated both smart contract and multisignature wallets do not guarantee complete security. It all depends on who writes the code. We are creating safe and secure code for DMarket marketplace. As the Ethereum smart contract won’t be driving the marketplace, we’ve chosen the simplest and the safest way for token distribution during the token sale. 1 - Your current sale is no different to what you are describing. You currently use 2 currencies (ETH + BTC) and 2 blockchains. If you used a Smart Contract you would still use 2 currencies (ETH + BTC) and 2 blockchains. There is no difference, apart from more security for you investors when using a Smart Contract, because then the token release is automatic. Now every investor has to trust you, that you will do as promised. This is the exact opposite of what the Smart contracts was designed for. And your point about fraud is equally relevant with or without Smart contracts. Actually it is more likely without a Smart Contract. 2 - I am not arguing over the existence of all investors' ether transactions. My point is that no tokens has been created. Please explain to me what Your token balance: XXXX means exactly. What tokens are these? 3 - You will be using ERC-20 tokens, but you won't be using a Smart Contract? |
|
|
|
Interesting. Sale policy has been changed today, a day after start of ico sale. The mentioned paragraph has been changed now. Wow, changing the rules of the game when the game has already been started.
D_market, how would you explain this? Changing the terms of the contract after investors have given you their money. I only invested 10ETH, but I am completely disappointing by the lack of transparency and integrity this project is showing. It's getting even worse. Now they state, that tokens are distributed 30-60 day AFTER second distribution phase ended ( https://dmarketio.slack.com/archives/C65BE4X1T/p1503077355000541). The updated sale policy ( https://dmarket.io/assets/documents/DMarket_tokens_sale_policy_EN.pdf) 3.7 reads now "3.7. The amount of DMarket Tokens to be provided to a User shall be specified in User’s Account on the Website upon completion of DMarket Tokens purchase by the User. The DMarket Tokens shall be sent to the User’s personal respective cryptocurrency wallet by the end of DMarket Tokens Sale phase #2 as defined in the Whitepaper and on the Website." So they didn't only change the sale policy AFTER the sale already started but now they are stating again something different than written in the updated policy. We haven’t changed the terms of the sale after it has started, and we are not going to do that. As we have faced incorrect interpretation of 3.7, we have added it with the information to make it more clear and transparent. According to the short version of 3.7. “DMarket Tokens shall be sent to the User’s personal respective cryptocurrency wallet immediately upon DMarket Tokens payment”. It means that: “The DMarket Tokens are added to your personal respective cryptocurrency wallet after we start processing payments of DMarket Tokens.” Investors can see the exact amount of DMarket Tokens in the personal DMarket account right after the purchase. To make it more clear and transparent we added information to 3.7. The amount of DMarket Tokens to be provided to a User shall be specified in User’s Account on the Website upon completion of DMarket Tokens purchase by the User. The DMarket Tokens shall be sent to the User’s personal respective cryptocurrency wallet by the end of DMarket Tokens Sale phase #2 as defined in the White Paper and on the Website. Our approach is based on security and transparency, and equal and clear conditions for all investors. DMarket_tokens_sale_policy_EN.pdf file clearly stated that the token will be sent immediately after payment is received. The updated DMarket_tokens_sale_policy_EN.pdf states tokens will be sent at the end of Phase 2. Then you say you haven't changed the terms. Manipulation will not help any community ever. Please don't write your own words, check the exact ones in agreements. It was our mistake to have the policy written in a way, which brought some readers to misunderstanding. (Always blame lawyers rule actually works here  ( ) Please, accept our apologies for this misunderstanding happened in the first place. As we have faced incorrect interpretation of 3.7, we have added it with the information to make it more clear and transparent. According to the short version of 3.7. “DMarket Tokens shall be sent to the User’s personal respective cryptocurrency wallet immediately upon DMarket Tokens payment”. It means that: “The DMarket Tokens are added to your personal respective cryptocurrency wallet after we start processing payments of DMarket Tokens.” And here is what we added to updated version to avoid any confusions. "The amount of DMarket Tokens to be provided to a User shall be specified in User’s Account on the Website upon completion of DMarket Tokens purchase by the User. The DMarket Tokens shall be sent to the User’s personal respective cryptocurrency wallet by the end of DMarket Tokens Sale phase #2 as defined in the Whitepaper and on the Website." Distribution after second Phase is the only safe, transparent and equal solution for every contributor of DMarket. We explained this in details couple of posts earlier - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2041720.msg21032494#msg21032494 Can you please provide the previous version of the agreement then? |
|
|
|
Hi,from your plane,only 51% crowdsale,29%reserved and 20% left for teams.
29% reserved for what? is it still in team hands?is so, is it a mount of coins controlled by the team!
Reserved for future boosting of the project. Basically to sell to new investors if needed. |
|
|
|
1 - That makes no sense. You can still use a smart contract for the Ether payments and your own system for the BTC payments. The benefit for your investors is that with a smart contract your tokens will be automatically and certainly distributed, while with your approach there is only a promise and nothing else. The whole point of using a smart contract is to avoid the middle man, which is you. You offer a project based on the Ethereum network, yet you don't use the one benefit it provides. That is counter-intuitive and can be interpreted as a possibility to scam.
2 - The blockchain only shows how much Ether you have received from each investor. No tokens exist yet, so the balance on your website is purely cosmetic.
4 - How can you possible believe that your manual approach is more secure than an automated contract? You are basically denying the underlying principle behind the Ethereum network.
D_market, please comment on these 2 points as I still feel they are quite valid. |
|
|
|
I’ve invested 12 BTC in this project, and it was clear for me that they distribute their tokens after the phase 2. It is also based on logic as you still can’t use tokens before they are listed on stock exchange. And it will happen in 30-60 days after the end of the token sale phase 2.
Frankly, I don’t see any scam here. It’s an exaggeration dude.
Tokens primary purpose are not to be listed or traded, but used. Speculation and ROI is why we are here, but the core idea behind them is not that. If I understand correctly these are ERC-20 tokens, that are created via a smart contract, yet the smart contract doesn't exist yet and the tokens do no exist yet. |
|
|
|
Interesting. Sale policy has been changed today, a day after start of ico sale. The mentioned paragraph has been changed now. Wow, changing the rules of the game when the game has already been started.
D_market, how would you explain this? Changing the terms of the contract after investors have given you their money. I only invested 10ETH, but I am completely disappointing by the lack of transparency and integrity this project is showing. It's getting even worse. Now they state, that tokens are distributed 30-60 day AFTER second distribution phase ended ( https://dmarketio.slack.com/archives/C65BE4X1T/p1503077355000541). The updated sale policy ( https://dmarket.io/assets/documents/DMarket_tokens_sale_policy_EN.pdf) 3.7 reads now "3.7. The amount of DMarket Tokens to be provided to a User shall be specified in User’s Account on the Website upon completion of DMarket Tokens purchase by the User. The DMarket Tokens shall be sent to the User’s personal respective cryptocurrency wallet by the end of DMarket Tokens Sale phase #2 as defined in the Whitepaper and on the Website." So they didn't only change the sale policy AFTER the sale already started but now they are stating again something different than written in the updated policy. We haven’t changed the terms of the sale after it has started, and we are not going to do that. As we have faced incorrect interpretation of 3.7, we have added it with the information to make it more clear and transparent. According to the short version of 3.7. “DMarket Tokens shall be sent to the User’s personal respective cryptocurrency wallet immediately upon DMarket Tokens payment”. It means that: “The DMarket Tokens are added to your personal respective cryptocurrency wallet after we start processing payments of DMarket Tokens.” Investors can see the exact amount of DMarket Tokens in the personal DMarket account right after the purchase. To make it more clear and transparent we added information to 3.7. The amount of DMarket Tokens to be provided to a User shall be specified in User’s Account on the Website upon completion of DMarket Tokens purchase by the User. The DMarket Tokens shall be sent to the User’s personal respective cryptocurrency wallet by the end of DMarket Tokens Sale phase #2 as defined in the White Paper and on the Website. Our approach is based on security and transparency, and equal and clear conditions for all investors. DMarket_tokens_sale_policy_EN.pdf file clearly stated that the token will be sent immediately after payment is received. The updated DMarket_tokens_sale_policy_EN.pdf states tokens will be sent at the end of Phase 2. Then you say you haven't changed the terms. |
|
|
|
You offer a project based on the Ethereum network, yet you don't use the one benefit it provides
The project won't run on the Ethereum network. D_Market, is this guy part of your team? Will the project run on the Ethereum network? |
|
|
|
Hi!
i: I am not sure it exists or not for new companies, all I am saying is I do not understand why would anyone purchase it or request it being a new company. You can check it is incorporated. Perhaps you can explain me why would you want to see that. Also if you buy it and send us or publish here we can discount it from your contribution on the token sale. We want to be focused on the important issues.
ii: No, Token holders will not be involved in that. That will be the company. Token holders will just receive more profits so the company will make more fees.
iii: I do not know the answer. Perhaps other Cryptocurrencies.
Because it would show that you are transparent and accountable. Because it is free for you to obtain and will take only a few minutes. It's not a deal breaker. It's just a token of trust for me. I wanted to know what will be the ROI implications for the investors. If 25% of a building is bought with a mortgage, then REAL token holders could only invest in the other 75% of the building? 25% of the rent generated will be paid to the company or to the investors? So you would agree that apart from cryprocurrencies there are no other real world examples of this phenomena? Cheers 1) I hope you are satisfied with this. https://www.dropbox.com/s/lkg53nzzu5kins9/Email%20notification-COI%20%282%29.pdf?dl=0 You are free to ask whatever additional document in the registry. 2) Correct, if we ask for 25% mortgage, investors only invest 75% of the property, pay its interests but keep 100% of the returns. 3) Cryptocurrency world is quite unique but I am a marketing person that does not know everything. 1 - Not what I required, but thanks anyway. 2 - So you would use all the investment as a leverage to get loans. As an example if people invest 100 million USD then you might get another 100 million in loans = 200 million in capital and 200 million in buildings. Then investors only get 50% of the rent minus your 10% fees. Who gets the other 50% of the rent? |
|
|
|
What if there are many properties like this - if cryptocurrency speculation is in a bear market and people want to sell all tokens, will REAL be caught bare handed - like EDL2016's fears as mentioned above, collapse with investors money? What steps are taken to protect REAL investors from a volatile cryptocurrency market, which is an added risk to traditional real estate investing?
I think this is where the floor price comes in. These tokens will bring dividends based on the rent. So the price of the tokens naturally should always be higher than the dividends x duration of time. As an example if you get 5 cents for every dollar invested in a building, then it makes sense of the price of the token to at least that. That means if you buy the token for 5 cents then you will break even in 1 year, ignoring all the fees. |
|
|
|
Hi!
i: I am not sure it exists or not for new companies, all I am saying is I do not understand why would anyone purchase it or request it being a new company. You can check it is incorporated. Perhaps you can explain me why would you want to see that. Also if you buy it and send us or publish here we can discount it from your contribution on the token sale. We want to be focused on the important issues.
ii: No, Token holders will not be involved in that. That will be the company. Token holders will just receive more profits so the company will make more fees.
iii: I do not know the answer. Perhaps other Cryptocurrencies.
Because it would show that you are transparent and accountable. Because it is free for you to obtain and will take only a few minutes. It's not a deal breaker. It's just a token of trust for me. I wanted to know what will be the ROI implications for the investors. If 25% of a building is bought with a mortgage, then REAL token holders could only invest in the other 75% of the building? 25% of the rent generated will be paid to the company or to the investors? So you would agree that apart from cryprocurrencies there are no other real world examples of this phenomena? Cheers |
|
|
|
Hi! Thanks for the questions.
We don’t use the smart contract technology on the first stage. We have developed our own service which
allows us to process incoming transactions from different blockchains because smart contracts at Ethereum
can’t control transactions on bitcoin blockchain. The decision to develop our service can be supported by
the fact that the software used on the main computer has been developed for decades, while the Ethereum
smart contracts appeared only a couple years ago.
2. Our service is monitoring all incoming transactions to our accounts. The service accrues tokens to the
contributors’ accounts and saves this in the database according to the token sale policy, as described on our
landing page. The contributors can see the amount of accrued tokens on their profile pages. If a contributor
would like to check the accuracy of the token accrual, they can compare the correctness of the calculations
with the information from the blockchain. In this case, the blockchain is the source of the primary data.
4. The service described above also helps us check every transaction twice before sending the tokens and
therefore ensure the safety of gathered tokens. All transactions done by the rules of the service will be
taken into account in full.
5. At that, we are planning on using a simplified smart-contract based on the OpenZeppelin framework (see
GitHub V2) at the end of the second stage of the token sale, which will allow us to solve two main issues:
1) Implementation of the ERC20 interface, which will allow trading our tokens on the external stock
markets.
2) Accrual of the tokens bought by contributors to their wallets using the smart contract feature.
As a result, the combination of our service and smart contract technology of token sale will guarantee
simplicity, reliability, clarity, and safety of the contributions and token accrual to the personal wallets of
contributors.
1 - That makes no sense. You can still use a smart contract for the Ether payments and your own system for the BTC payments. The benefit for your investors is that with a smart contract your tokens will be automatically and certainly distributed, while with your approach there is only a promise and nothing else. The whole point of using a smart contract is to avoid the middle man, which is you. You offer a project based on the Ethereum network, yet you don't use the one benefit it provides. That is counter-intuitive and can be interpreted as a possibility to scam. 2 - The blockchain only shows how much Ether you have received from each investor. No tokens exist yet, so the balance on your website is purely cosmetic. 4 - How can you possible believe that your manual approach is more secure than an automated contract? You are basically denying the underlying principle behind the Ethereum network. I would strongly urge you to be more transparent and clear about your actions and the motives behind them. The fact you are changing the terms of the sale after it has started grants the right to every investor to get his investment back from you as this is considered a breach of contract in the real business world. |
|
|
|
Hello. Tell me when your Dmarket tokens will go to the exchange? What exchanges will be traded on?
Hi! DMarket token will be listed on Stock exchange in 30-60 days after the end of the token sale. The second stage ends in November 2017. Do you believe that giving an estimate of the time when the token will be listed on an exchange makes your investors less trusting in you? |
|
|
|
Interesting. Sale policy has been changed today, a day after start of ico sale. The mentioned paragraph has been changed now. Wow, changing the rules of the game when the game has already been started.
D_market, how would you explain this? Changing the terms of the contract after investors have given you their money. I only invested 10ETH, but I am completely disappointing by the lack of transparency and integrity this project is showing. |
|
|
|
Dmarket just has a regular Ethereum address for collecting investments and so token distribution is not automatic.
Yes, it is a regular airgapped wallet. Yes, token distribution is not done automatically. Just because, I trust my backend scripts more than "world-wide computer" and I can check transactions before sending funds to a clever hacker, who found a loophole. Excuse me, but you are you? You pretend to be involved with the ICO, yet your attitude is completely unprofessional. |
|
|
|
|
Etherscan doesn't find any Dmarket contract or token. WHY?
Other ICO's have a contract in place already and once you invest you get your tokens alsmost immediately.
Dmarket just has a regular Ethereum address for collecting investments and so token distribution is not automatic.
Correct me if I am wrong, but this doesn't look good to me.
|
|
|
|
|
Thank you for your answers.
-Company is 2 months old, there has not been any fillings so far. - Are you saying the Certificate of Good Standing does not exists, because the website is offering me to buy it. Also the Register of Members is available for purchase.
-To maximize returns. We invest 50% of capital but get 100% of returns. We double the returns and it is worth it even paying the bank interests. - So if a property is bought 50% capital and 50% loans then how does this affect REAL tokens holders? The loan would be a liability in your accounts for which the bank must receive a monthly payment I assume. Will the REAL token holders be involved in this. Please clarify.
-I did not understand the question - REAL tokens will increase in value mostly because of its speculative nature. But the dividends payouts will stay mostly fixed. During the pre-sale 1 REAL token would cost around 1USD. Hypothetically the price could increase tenfold to 10USD in the future, but the payouts from rent would stay roughly the same. I am asking if there was or there is another asset that carries the same characteristics.
|
|
|
|
Pre-ICO investors I guess...
Is this mentioned anywhere? |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
