The comparison of Ridicuss' company and BFL is impossible on almost every level. BFL did not have the resources, supply chain, personnel, etc... of a 60 year old company, nor does the established industry even exist that the mill enjoys. 65nm was brand new, state of the art just 7 years ago, not only is there not enough time to develop an industry similar to a steel mill around the 65nm node, the technology moves so fast that a robust industry like that would never even have time to develop.
I have to accept blame for this one, I was under the impression that steel foundries had a much longer lead time. I know from talking to my daughter that they do need a continuous supply of raw materials and that they run 7 days a week as the cost of refiring a cold furnace is far greater than keeping them running. In my mind I envisioned a more complicated process taking days or weeks to complete. Using that I figured an order made and begun, but not yet finished, would never get a refund if cancelled at this point due to the materials already being processed but not completed. Hey now, you cant have all the blame. You know math and electronics. I specialize in mining (not crypto) with many science based principals. I dont know how chip foundries work and it sounds very complicated on top of being brand new product I can actually see how things can get gacked very badly in short order. I apologize for my ignorance in the electronics part of the world. Thanks for the civil debate BCP! Josh, I understand how you must feel being under attack most of the time but if you choose to treat those that are trying get at you like they are idiots, it really does make you look bad. The internet remembers my friend. I'm sure I have dues to pay in cyberspace that have not come around yet. But they will. And I will have to accept that. The animation is a bit long, but if you'd like to understand the chip creation a bit better(though still complicated) you can check out http://www.umc.com/English/about/p_1.asp The link to the Service flow is also informative. |
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These guys are going for 30 bucks (plus shipping) on Amazon right now, so ROI may be possible if you mine alt-coins and play the exchange game (buy low/sell high). I think the best chance to make the ROI is by mining another coin at this point.
Have you checked your options? Bitcoin, Terracoin, Zetacoin, PPcoin, Freicoin, Bytecoin, Namecoin, Ixcoin and Devcoin. TRC seems to be the only one higher than BTC in profitability and it could be 51% from a single mini-rig at the moment. It's not like you can mine Scrypt with it. |
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The comparison of Ridicuss' company and BFL is impossible on almost every level. BFL did not have the resources, supply chain, personnel, etc... of a 60 year old company, nor does the established industry even exist that the mill enjoys. 65nm was brand new, state of the art just 7 years ago, not only is there not enough time to develop an industry similar to a steel mill around the 65nm node, the technology moves so fast that a robust industry like that would never even have time to develop.
I have to accept blame for this one, I was under the impression that steel foundries had a much longer lead time. I know from talking to my daughter that they do need a continuous supply of raw materials and that they run 7 days a week as the cost of refiring a cold furnace is far greater than keeping them running. In my mind I envisioned a more complicated process taking days or weeks to complete. Using that I figured an order made and begun, but not yet finished, would never get a refund if cancelled at this point due to the materials already being processed but not completed. |
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In my drunken state last night I did (see link below). Before you look at it, know that I respect your opinions if you believe difficulty will or will not increase at these rates. The truth is that none of us know for sure. My heart tells me it won’t be this bad, but in my mind I expect it to be significantly worse. Some things you should know about the sheet: 1) It assumes a rolling 14 day window for difficulty jumps. In reality it will be shorter (makes our reward less. Eg bad for us) 2) I used the BTC calculator http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/, BUT did not use power coast in my BTC results (again this makes our reward less. Eg bad for us) 3) It assumes a steady difficulty delta increase of 5mill over previous 2 weeks (until the end where I increase it to 10mill). This might be better approximated with a percentage. This is probably the most questionable feature of the sheet. However, it looks like we are on track to break the 25mill delta the sheet predicts for this next difficulty jump. 4) I was fairly toasted last night, so if you find mathematical errors PM me and I will fix them ASAP. I am fairly sure I did not get the dates perfect, but then again it’s a pall park estimate anyhow because a fixed 14 day window is not correct. Please be kind to each other, we are all getting a fairly aggressive Colonoscopy here. (Especially steamboat) The sheet - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ah7ZJVoobFY7dDRGQk1kdmJmaUJwZENKZUdNejJlWEE&usp=sharing I agree with your mind, unfortunately. If you look at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=283820.0 in mining speculation, you'll see that in the next 45 days a lot of product is poised to ship. Whether or not it does is the big question. D&T has done a pretty good job rounding up the estimated pre-order totals and approx. shipping times for all the companies out there. |
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(I refuse to buy the overpriced toys AM sells)
[...]
I currently make more from 5 CPUs mining XPM than I will likely make from my Jalapeno when I receive it, but that matters not to me.
Please take no offence, but this sounds to me like a contradiction. First you say you don't want "overpriced toys", then you say that it "doesn't matter to you" if you chose a suboptimal money-making strategy. Either you are in it for the money (and you should use optimal strategy) or you are in it for the lulz (and "toys" should do just fine, especially if you can actually have them instead of being of imaginary thin air). It's simple... when I purchased I had a choice between a $250 USB and a $274 Jalapeno. I knew from my GPU that I'd never make 2BTC from that USB (It was averaging .005BTC which = 400 days with no dif inc). I also knew there were 11 months of orders ahead of me on the Jala even though they were shipping (20 July at that time). I could not afford anything but these 2 items, so I ignored the expensive toy that had people drooling and paying 2-3x AM's selling price and bought the Jala which was 15x as powerful. I've left my GPU running(300MH) since my purchase and I'm at 0.67372445 BTC since 2 days before I ordered. My computers will be running whether I mine BTC or LTC or XPM or even go back to Mersenne (kinda doubtful... I like seeing the pennies roll in). The GPU is reaching the end of it's useful life and eventually I'll have the Jalapeno. This is more of a game to me... see what I can do with it. I nearly doubled my earnings by investing in AM shares. I've had good and bad investments, but overall the game has been good to me. I'm curious where this game will end up 10 or 20 years down the road. Half the fun is getting there. |
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So its split between break even or lose money on these if its near the end of Oct? Basically the guys in August will make 400% on there investment and us October guys will lose or break even???
Nobody will be making 400% in one short month.  |
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Agreed on all points you make here. I doubt on # of individual direct customer numbers we are even close to 1/10th of BFL numbers.
Thank you for you service to our country.
Now how the hell did get through all that without swearing at each other. LOL
We must be the 2 politest people on BCT.  |
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Unfortunately, your foundry is a poor analogy, but you chose to use it. Mill Scale is highly available it is a byproduct of steel manufacturing, among other sources, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mill_scale We have been in business for over 60 years and we don't make mistakes like running out of raw products, and if we did, the purchasing manager would be out of job. We keep enough raw material on hand to keep us running for months in advance. Constant inventory replenishment. There is never "We can start on your order in x number of days" It is delivered by rail car within the week we ask for it to be delivered. And as for our products they are delivered on the site when requested. We don't do just in time ordering, and we don't run out of products, our own or raw materials purchased. Now to address the only company using said foundry; No we aren't. And no we don't only source from one company. We use a pool of lowest bids. Maybe BFL could learn from that. Multiple sources can prevent you from running out. And "God forbid they did have to start from scratch" and look where that has put them. Did somebody get fired over the colossal supply chain snafu? Did they apologies to customers and do everything they could to make it right? Were they transparent at every level and let their customers, mm investors, errr not quite right either, Monumental assholes I think thats the one know what was going on? Or to at least give the customer the impression they did? The antics of the face of BFL would suggest otherwise. We cant afford to do it the way BFL did it, we have competition. If we followed the BFL model, we would be out of business. I can guarantee this as well: Customer relations can be a very tricky thing. Do we have customer complaints. Absolutely, not many, but they do happen. How do we resolve complaints? By treating the customer with respect and doing everything we can to make them happy, even if they don't know what they are talking about. Are the customers always right? We treat them like they are, even if it costs us money. The reason for that is we know if it was to cost us a little now by retaining them it gains us more in the long run. If any agents of our company were to become a bit disrespectful to a customer they will be terminated. Have we ever lost customers? Unfortunately, yes. Most have returned after realizing it isn't always greener on the other side and a lot of grandiose promises cant be met. We never ask for an apology from the customer. If they come back, they are treated just as if they never left. I get this feeling, you are affiliated with BFL? Not just a customer? If you are an agent or affiliate please take some of the information provided above to try and save your company. Even if you just use the customer retention strategy above, you will keep a few more customers. If BFL had treated all customers as I stated above, BFL would still have my money wise on my part or not, it is the truth. We are definitely talking about very different products here, but at least the supply chain strategy and customer retention strategy do work, and would work for BFL. From some of your questions to me, I feel you dont have much experience in industrial manufacturing. And from the fundamental nature of your question about running out of steel from a foundry. Do you think GM, Ford, Chrysler run out of steel? Yes, we are on that level. For me it comes down to this, BFL needs a fundamental culture mindset change. Unrelated tidbit. We also use a very effective employee retention strategy. Regards, Indeed, I was wrong, I did not realize the level you are used to running at. It is obvious to me now that a mill foundry should never be compared to a chip foundry. I thank you for the education. No, I am not affiliated with BFL. I do however have an above average grasp on mathematical models and a fairly extensive background in electronics having spent 20 years as an aviation electronics technician in the Navy. By just taking 1% of the 'net worth' of BTC on Jun 23, I could see what the effect would be if that were used to purchase from BFL. From there it was easy to see the spiral that we are now seeing due to the price increase in BTC and the deluge of ASIC products now shipping. It would have been much worse last Oct. Your views on the customer are correct for your business model, but I'd imagine your customer base is likely 1/10th of BFL's or less. You are unlikely to be venturing into uncharted territory like BFL has done. 3 companies took on the challenge and each approached it differently. Avalon and AM went for volume as they were make 333 and 400MH chips. it's easy to add a few extra chips if you get things wrong. BFL was more ambitious. I don't honestly know what speed they were going for, but they ended up around 4GH which was slower than they had planned on. Compared to Avalon and AM they had a major problem with a need for 1.5-2x the chips they expected. Unlike your business, the customers here seem to operate under the feeling that they alone would have the ASIC and they'd have BTC rolling in hand over fist. When the bubble burst and reality crept in they lashed out and in far greater numbers than your company ever had to deal with. The supply chain issues would also not work. Chip technology today is in many different sizes. 180nm, 150nm, 110nm, 90nm, 65nm, 55nm 28nm. I doubt you could send the same specs to 2 different foundries and get the same results. I could be wrong. But from the foundries they have to be sent to a bumping facility. Somewhere in there the chips have to be 'binned'. I asked a question about binning and was told Grade B and lower were only used on Jalapenos. Grade A normally encompases only 60% of a wafer of chips, however I was also told that a majority of the Grade B were testing out at Grade A, so it sounds like they had a good FAB there. From there you need to populate the boards. Unless foundries have bumping facilities, you already have 4 different companies working together between the foundry, bumping fac, PCB manufacturer and the Assemblers. And the product isn't even to BFL yet. Your foundry is simplicity indeed when compared to a chip foundry. |
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bcp,
I would like to answer your question of purchasing from another company. I did place and fully fund an order from bitfury through Dave. When I placed this order I still had fully funded orders with BFL. I had not cancelled yet. That being said. 2 months after I placed my order with Dave, my gear is hashing away nicely in my house, by bfls updates, they still have not gotten to my old place in line. Now my BFL money wont be going to the lower priced Monarch, It will be buying 800 GH/s from Dave. Yes at a higher price maybe never make a return, yada yada. But Dave acts professionally and has always treated me with respect. That treatment will always get my money.
Regards
I can't help looking at your other post... After the treatment of some unhappy customers on the BFL forum my eyes started to open. I'm not saying the customers were acting appropriately, but what is appropriate after you have waited a year or close to it?
I've read through my fair share of old posts as well, and I know exactly what you are saying, but one problem with the internet is people will lash out like they never would in person. People also jump to snap decisions based off of faulty logic or assumed insults. It amazes me I can write 3 or 4 paragraphs and some troll will pull 3 or 4 words out of it and turn the meaning 180 degrees out. I also tend to laugh at the people who feel that swearing is necessary and who will double or triple thier swearing if you mention it. I was brought up to be respectful to others, but I am human and I can only take so much. I doubt Ghandi could keep his cool with the onslaught the people around here tend to dish out. I can see Mother Theresa wading through here with a yardstick in her handslooking like Luke Skywalker weilding a lightsaber, swatting people left and right to modify their behavior. You have your views and I have mine. I personally have been courteous and respectful in my communications with BFL and they have been equally as courteous and respectful in return. While I view responses to others as outside my purview, you, by your admission, take umbrage with them. That is your perogative. Each person has their own tolerance levels. Unlike you, none of the other companies offer a product within my budget (I refuse to buy the overpriced toys AM sells). I had a good idea of how long I would wait and what difficulty would be by the time I received my order and I was satisfied with that. I currently make more from 5 CPUs mining XPM than I will likely make from my Jalapeno when I receive it, but that matters not to me. I can say with complete honesty that I have made more BTC due to BFL's problems than I would have if they had shipped on time. While I understand the same is not true for all of BFL's customers, I am fairly certain from my modeling that very few who had not gotten in on the 1st day or week of orders have truly 'lost' much. Sadly we'll never know for sure, as I can't see BFL releasing the information to make an accurate model. |
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Personally I see nothing wrong in the 'all sales final'. My daughter works at a steel mill in Pittsburgh and anyone ordering has to pay up front a non refundable deposit. The chip foundries are the same way, you have to pay up front since you are ordering a specialty item that there is only a niche market for.
I disagree, doesn't make sense. If I order some steel stuff from your foundry, and you don't deliver in, say, 2 months – let alone 10! – I'm pretty sure I'll ask you my money back, because I need that steel stuff to produce my stuff, and if you can't deliver I'll have to buy it somewhere else. Your delay would be causing my delay for my customers, and I really don't want angry customers, so you'll better ship or pay back promptly. Hope it's clear. Lohoris is absolutly correct about this. My company does buy mill scale from foundries. We use it as an Iron source for our products. If you don't deliver, its a breach of contract and we are done with you. These are very large contracts and mill scale sellers hop to the beat of our drum, not the other way around. Regards, Ok, answer me this then, are you the only company using said foundry? When you place an order, are you not told it'll be X days before they can even START on your order and that it'll then take Y days to complete and to expect it on a certain date? If you realize you made a mistake a week down the road and need 2x your original order, you'll have to again wait your line in the queue to receive the rest of your order, will you not? BFL ended up with a mistake like this... IIRC, they were to have 1 chip for Jala's and 4(?) for LS's and the full 8 for Singles and MR's. Even if they did not need to fully double their quantity of chips needed, they had to order more. If you received your mill order and found out you really needed 1.5x a much, how long would it take you to get that extra? Chips foundries take on average 100 days from order to completion. I highly doubt your steel foundry has quite that much lead time. A lot can happen over 100 days and god forbid you had to start from scratch. |
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What an utterly idiotic way to look at things. People don't make investments that guaranteed to lose them money, and justify it by saying, "Well the exchange rate of the USD might improve, so it's not a bad investment.
If you're going to tread on the probability of a Bitcoin exchange rate increase, buy Bitcoin. Buying mining equipment that mines at a loss, in hopes of recovering $ by exchange rate changes is as stupid as buying bulldozers at a loss to mine gold, in hopes that the cost of gold would increase. You'd be a fool to do that, instead of just buying gold in the first place.
Face it, ROI on these miners at the price we paid is TOAST. Dead. Over. Finito. Justify it to yourself however you want, but don't expect anybody to take you seriously.
While you are correct that expectig a positive BTC RoI on anything at the moment is unlikely at best, you need to look at people in general. When I was in the Navy, you could opt to have $10/$20/$50/$100/xx taken out of your paycheck monthly to be used to buy savings bonds. Since I had already been out of my own for 7 years since graduating HS at the time I enlisted, I had bills like car payments, insurance, credits cards, etc. that the average kid just out of school did not. I elected not to have money taken out. I did ask the pay clerks on average how many people DID use this and the answer was less than 10%. If the average bitcoin miner is the same, they can't or won't take the time to invest monthly into stocks or bonds or even BTC. While I am not an average BTC miner, like most I have monthly bills, Rent, Electricity, Gas, Water, Credit Cards, Car, Insurance, Phone... the list can go on and on. Now, I can either add a new expense to the ones I have... investing in BTC monthly... or I can make a purchase and just pay a slightly higher electric bill and have the investment happen for me. Like purchasing Gold or Stocks, purchasing BTC usually involves a middle man and will cost you a % of your purchase. I never purchased gold or stocks due to this middle-man fee. It felt like I was being ripped off every single month. If I buy the equipment though, I only pay a premium once and I can ignore the added expense of my electric bill, or I can put in florescent or LED bulbs to save money to offset the added cost. Sure, the most sensible thing to do is buy and hold BTC. But it's boring. As I said someplace else... if I really want to watch grass grow, I have a yard. But that equipment is something tangible that I can hear, feel and see. Every day the numbers change, I may make a little more or a little less, but I am making something. I can see my investment grow, not sit as a static number in a wallet that I have to refrain from using and pray that dip in price is only temporary or panic and cut my losses. Not everyone CAN save. It's an unfortunate fact. |
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Personally I disagree.
The reason I wanted a refund is because of the delay in shipping, and the fact they treat their customers with disdain. Not only that but their sales policy "all sales are final" is against the law. Not only that but using my funds for the miner I purchased to research another tranche of 28nm pcie miners when the ones your supposed to be building arent even built yet is not on.
Use those funds to expand the company and enable better fulfilling of orders, not pile it into R&D.
Tsk.
Ok, 2 questions... When did you request your refund? Have you or will you be making a purchase of ASICs from another company? Personally I see nothing wrong in the 'all sales final'. My daughter works at a steel mill in Pittsburgh and anyone ordering has to pay up front a non refundable deposit. The chip foundries are the same way, you have to pay up front since you are ordering a specialty item that there is only a niche market for. If Yifu indeed refunded everyone the amount they sent for their chips, then he is out the cost of those chips he paid the founcry and it remains to be seen if he can get them in time for them to still remain profitable. Now you have stepped into the boundaries of the unknown. You are ASSUMING they are using YOUR funds for research. Do you have proof of this? It is equally likely the profit from FPGAs and from units already shipped is what is funding that research. The problem is neither of us can prove if that is or is not the case. Your belief would never stand up in a court of law. From recent blogs, it's been mentioned that they moved the building of Mini-rigs to a new area. That to me would indicate they already ARE expanding and trying to fulfill orders better. No, I got a refund because I passed the point when I think it's better long term to purchase the BTC and hold it than to mine for it.
You just proved my point. You got a refund because your money-making machine won't make as much as you hoped. Thank you. |
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LOL. Being 10 months late on delivery isn't minutae. It is the core failure of BFL to uphold their side of the "sale". I've already shown what would have happened with no delays and only 1 full mini-rig a day shipping. With BTC at $12 in Dec, NO ONE other than Day 1 purchasers would have made RoI. The WHY is the customers over-ordering without considering the consequences.
Go ahead and bleat again about BTC to $100+ and all the other hindsight garbage that probably would not have come true due to the changing circumstance.
All irrelevent. Exchange rate doesn't matter. Difficulty doesn't matter. BFL failed to perform, and customers are well within their rights to request refunds. It doesn't matter why they want a refund. BFL failed. And still, there are tons of people who just wait and refuse to ask refunds. I'm not sure if I find that more hilarous or more terrifying... If BTC = $1000 today 99.9% of the refund requests would never have been made. Exchange rate DOES matter. "They're 4,6,8,10 months late!!!" is just an excuse to cover the REAL reason people want refunds cause they KNOW that will get it for them. If BFL had shipped on time and people were looking at their singles making $3 a day on Dec 1, the refund requests would have gone through the roof from the SAME people clamoring for them now. EDIT: Case in point:
Thank you for explaining this, hopefully it will sink in.
Put more directly -- ROI is dead, please bring on more refund details.
I know one guy in particular who ordered from BFL in May, started whining in less than 2 weeks, started flaming, went overboard and got banned and got his refund request approved. I've seen him on BCT with 2 other refunded orders that I know of. Lohoris brings up a good point... why are more people holding onto their orders with BFl than those demanding refunds? The answer is simple: It's the difference between the get-rich quick suckers that have(or will) jumped from company to company demanding 3 and 4 refunds in the process yet still have no product in hand and the long-term investors that want a given product at a given speed. Bitcoin mining isn't a short term sprint, it's a marathon. Too many sprinters are trying to win the race and are demanding refunds when they get passed. The marathoners just smile and keep running. |
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Maybe you need to ask WHY won't they make RoI?
Curious, you left out the key factor. October Delays. November Delays. December Delays. January Delays. February Delays. March Delays. April Delays. May Delays. June Delays. July Delays. August Delays. September Delays. More than 10 months after first scheduled delivery date and they still haven't finished shipping day 1 orders!Curious how you yet again ignore 90% of the post to fixate on minutae. I've already shown what would have happened with no delays and only 1 full mini-rig a day shipping. With BTC at $12 in Dec, NO ONE other than Day 1 purchasers would have made RoI. The WHY is the customers over-ordering without considering the consequences. Go ahead and bleat again about BTC to $100+ and all the other hindsight garbage that probably would not have come true due to the changing circumstance. |
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Love the quote at the end of the page...
My favourite version of that line is:
"If you can't find the asshole in the room it is you." Fortunately we can all identify Josh and a few of his minions flittering about.
Sad to see people get taken and won't be able to ROI on their units. This nightmare will hopefully end when they stop getting enough orders to buy ad space here and on facebook and elsewhere. Maybe the AG and FTC might have to shut them down an put a few of them in jail. Either way if you haven't tried to get a refund do it now.
What a line... 'Sad to see people get taken'. You're so worried about BFL's customers yet you turn a blind eye to AM and his customers that get ripped off daily. People are getting taken over and over on these forums but you have your blinders on and can only see BFL. Maybe you need to ask WHY won't they make RoI? That's not BFL's fault, even though you refuse to see it. The mining community did this to themselves and are still doing it with every new purchase out there. What is truly sad here is the people demanding refunds never did their homework. WHY are people so adamant about getting refunds? #1 reason, whether you admit the truth to yourself or not, is cause they can't earn what they thought they could. People ordered a product, not a promise to become rich. But now that it's obvious they can't get rich they want a refund. Does the product do what it claimed it would? Yes. The extra power was known and everyone was sent an email and they had to say respond and say YES, they still wanted their product. I'd would bet you if these people demanding refunds told the WHOLE truth, Paypal and their CC company would laugh them out of town. "I paid $$$ to make $$$$!" Pathetic. There are no guarantees in life other than you won't get out alive. |
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Wow, I woulda missed this thread if someone hadn't linked it! I'll be in KC that day and I love sushi! Tell the restaurant not to run out of wasabi!!!!!
I thought you were aware, but I didn't bring it up via our brief PM session since I understood you had to get back home early enough to be ready for the next day's activity. See you Tuesday noonish at the lab. I think part of it is I keep thinking along the lines of when I used to live in KC and it'd take almost 4 hours to drive home for a visit, but the speed limit was 55 back then. While I don't like making a habit of not getting enough sleep, I've had to often enough in the Navy to be able to get away with it under special circumstances. I think this may count as one.  |
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so what is worst case ? 1000 mio diff at the beginning of 2014 ? level at about 1400 mio in march ? if you run 500 GH/s from jan - dez 2014 with this diff you would would mine 65 btc hm... I had originally thought 1 billion difficulty by ~15 Nov, but with Avalon's problem causing a domino effect of the start-ups, I'm beginning to think we might not hit it by the end of the year. The next 45 days will tell the story, once KNC starts shipping I think we'll have a clearer picture. They seem to have the largest preorder batch atm. |
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Now I am trying a much stronger PSU on a different blade, When set to port 3333 for Eclipse (not sure where I got it) the proxy scrolls so fast I can't make out what it is doing, but the miner does not hash and the pool shows no work. hhmmm  Sounds like login/pool info is wrong. I agree, but I just can't find squat for info on this. I've tried a hundred combinations now and nothing seems to work. There is only a few variables here so I'm not sure how I am messing it up. -o us2.eclipsemc.com -p 3333 (or 8337, or 8332) On config page, ports = Same as pool? serveraddress = localhost (with or without the ports?!) userpass = pool user and pass this seems simple, but obviously because I am showing no hashrate, there is a pool-connection glitch or something I assume. I just averaged the performance of the last several hours, and they are only averaging 5ghash on the pool. Why would they restart every 2 minutes if it was pool problems though? Me = confused... I think I see something: -o http://us2.eclipsemc.com:3333 -u Username -p pass p is password not port,correct  correct |
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Josh is not the ultimate authority at BFL, he is a go-between. He's trying to make the best of a bad situation and he can't make the calls. You all treat him like he is the sole person responsible for everything and you started the bad behaviour and are now complaining that you are getting back some of your own.
Waitaminit... *I* started the bad behaviour ? Sorry. I need to most strenuously disagree. I was responding to Josh's invective as a furious customer ( to the tune of over $4000 USD, net loss of $35k USD value in BTC after forced refund ) who had been led on for a number of months of delays, "mistakes", and absolutely unforgivable behaviour. Let's not lose sight of the reality of the situation. <sigh> I said "You all", but obviously that could *only* mean you. |
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