i.e. he has nothing to offer in this thread except a number to make him self sound important that's ... pointless. ... and redirects to something where he out right lied just to get himself into the discussion. That whole post of his he has linked to is a baseless lie which in easily provable with hind sight. I wonder, did ASICMiner bid for your shill services after Avalon snubbed your demand for a free unit? Or was BFL your only offer of free mining equipment?I am sure your rabid support of BFL on these forums is purely coincidence of course. ![Wink](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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From BFL_Jody Little Singles: none shipped today (today I should be a coward and turn off comments, because although it's not my fault they haven't made Little Single boards, you will pummel me with your comments for it.) Little Singles are still ahead of Singles and MiniRigs, though.
Singles: It seems we have only 4 more orders left for June 23, but still no PSU's so I can't ship those orders yet. So we shipped orders from June 23 and June 24, 2012 which were able to accept units without PSU's. Thanks again for emailing your willingness to accept units without PSU's. It makes sending orders to production so much faster. I don't answer those emails--I archive them in a folder for reference as I'm sending the orders. If your order comes up and I don't see an email from you about the PSU's I will email you, so don't worry about whether I got it.
MiniRigs from June 23 shipped.
Response to Comments:
I did not hire Josh and I do not work for Josh. We are equals in he company even though he is way smarter than I am (in some things). Did you know he can speak Korean and can make BTC Miners light up like toys?
We are no longer taking pre-orders. Since we have fully-tested products, we are taking ORDERS.
I am asking about the BitSafe wallet myself. Thank God we don't have pre-orders for those.
The only product that has shipped more than 1 day's worth of orders is the Jalapeno and those still have a 10 month backlog. BFL equipment will qualify as antiques when their investor's finally get them.
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It's disgusting that there is a race between the different models.
Not much of a race. The singles and mini-rigs haven't moved yet. They have managed to ship 2 days worth of little singles in 2 months. Good thing they "let the other lines catch up". ![Cheesy](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif)
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Very interesting.
Uniquify looks like it has the guns to undertake this.
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How about an easier one:
If BFL is shipping 300 units a day and has been working on June 23rd 2012 orders since May 21st How many units has BFL shipped?
If you assume they are working 7 days a week then 18900 units. If you assume they are working 5 days a week then 13800 units.
Do you believe either of these numbers?
I didn't think so.
How many orders do you think reasonably were placed on June 23rd 2012? Take that number and divide it by the number of production days between today and May 21st 2013 and that is how many they are likely shipping each day. If you think it was 5000 units ordered on 6/23/12 and they work only on weekdays then they are shipping 105 units a day.
Currently they are again out of power supplies for Singles (50gh/60gh units) and are shipping only units where they get the ok from customers to ship without a Power Supply.
Mini-Rigs, the units that were $20k plus still have not moved but a couple.
And Jalapenos are back to sending out one day of orders each day.
You guys get into the name calling and the accusations. Try using common sense. A 5th grader can see they aren't shipping 300 a day. In Josh's mind it's the truth because he saw 300 Jalapenos go out the door on one day and ONE day only.
2 weeks ago (tm) he said that production would grow to over 600 units a day, and his shipping person is telling us they are out of power supplies.
It is clear that the right hand at BFL does not know what the left hand is doing. They issue conflicting statements as to what is occurring while trying to placate irate customers on their own forums. I would imagine that customers with large orders don't get censored or banned on BFL forums, lest those same customers ask for a refund and precipitate a run on refunds. So since they can't delete all the angry posts, BFL has to come up with "explanations".
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The claim of 90 Th/s in 10 days is entirely yours based on the maths of shipping 300 Little Singles per day. BFL never claimed to be shipping 300 Little Singles per day, they claimed to be shipping "about 300 units a day" as shown in the quote you provided. Provide the quote of a BFL employee claiming to have shipped either 90 Th/s in 10 days or 300 Little Singles (as opposed to 300 units) per day. If you can't do that then stop talking out of your arse.
This is the fourth time I have tried to explain why you are on my side. Please pay attention, it is making you look bad. A) BFL_josh made the claim in the article in the OP that they are shipping 300 units a day. B) BFL_jody said they stopped the Jalapeno production line to let the "singles and mini-rig lines catch up".Those two statements in combination (if true) would result in at least 9TH/s per day (over 10 days time the lower bound would be 90TH/s) since by BFL's own admission they had temporarily stopped shipping Jalapeno's. Since 90TH/s is not visible in the hash rate, it does not exist. Therefore, one of those two statements is false. As to which statement: People who were expecting their Jalapenos to be built and shipped (since BFL was close to their pay date) had an unexplained week long wait that generated several forum posts. Therefore, it was more likely that BFL redirected their efforts towards the other lines as Jody claimed. That leaves Josh's statement to a reporter touring the BFL facilities as unlikely to be true. Since this thread is about that statement, I provided the math behind why the title of this thread is somewhat misleading. You said: Lets say BFL can ship 300 units per day. For the sake of argument, lets say those units are little singles. Then you did some maths. Then you made the following statement: That means in the last 10 working days, BFL claims to have shipped 90 TH/s. Which is simply a lie. You are the one making that claim "for the sake of argument", not BFL. BFL only claim that they were shipping 300 units per day. I like how you quote my statements in this very post, which you then ignore in order to draw your conclusion. Fortunately, I have the patience of a saint when dealing with folks who have trouble following logic. You should not ignore the maths, it is the whole point of this series of posts. You should also not ignore the bolded statement where BFL_Jody declared that the Jalapeno line was stopped while the other lines catch up. Where I said "for the sake of argument, lets say those units are little singles", that was to establish the lower bound. Those units could not be Jalapeno's per BFL_Jody's statement that none of those were shipping. Those 300 units could have been Little Singles, Singles, or Mini-rigs. I said for the sake of argument that they were all little singles because if any of them were larger than little singles, then the math is even farther than adding up. Little singles have the least hash rate of the possible shipping units from BFL. My statement is not a "claim" as you put it. It was an assumption, and then under that assumption I illustrated that the maths did not add up. Therefore the assumption could not be true. BFL could not be shipping 300 of little singles, or 300 of anything larger than little singles. BFL_Jody said that the Jalapeno line was halted during this period. So the point of my posts are: If at the time of the visit BFL could not have been shipping 300 Jalapenos (according to BFL_Jody). and if BFL could not have been shipping 300 little singles (the maths don't add up), and if BFL could not have been shipping 300 of anything larger than little singles (the maths are even farther from adding up), then BFL was not shipping 300 of anything while Josh was giving that tour.
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Bruno = A person on the internet asking very, very, very simple questions. Josh = Doxxing a person on the internet for asking very, very, very simple questions. Bruno = The guy being doxxed and accused of stealing barn wood around the Sandwich, IL, area. Josh = Deflecting the attention away from any subject of which may harm BFL. Bruno = Continues to ask the same very, very, very simple questions.
Which person above has a credibility issue: The barn wood guy or the guy doxxing the barn wood guy?
Really Bruno ? I read a lot of your posts here... I never see any simple questions...only implying, false evidence (oh yeah your supa post with the pictures from different hardware..) tin foil hat conspiracy, etc, etc... The only thing simple i see here...is YOU. Name: fractal02 Posts: 23 Activity: 22 Position: Member Date Registered: July 18, 2013, 07:59:06 AM Accounts older than April 1st 2013 that unambiguously support BFL: Kano (paid for with hashing equipment) Slok (paid moderator for BFL forums) Inaba (COO of BFL) Anyone have any others?
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My crystal ball tells me BFL is pretty much out of all the pre-order money. Now either they will prove if they are legit, and get a loan or do whatever they have to do, or they are going to cut and run. Thus half of the people who think they are going to get a miner, wont.
The love how the OP dismisses 165TH/s in hashing power shipped by Avalon as "cute" or "worthless to joe six pack". The chips were shipped to projects assembling products with them, not to "joe six pack". At this point, I suppose only willful ignorance (or a paycheck) could inspire a person to be pro-BFL.
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No, you're not, Bruno. You're just a confirmed thief who embezzles fund from charities and steal wood from local properties that you resell on Cragislist. Yeah, definitely a stand up citizen, you are. ![Grin](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/grin.gif) 160 posts of truth, lies, FUD, conjecture and half-truths, and this guy swoops in, does a hit-and-run ad hominem attack on his nemesis, accusing him of stealing wood. I come to the BFL threads now in the morning even before chron dot com to read my morning comics. It's more fun, and you can't make this shit up. I think the SEC charging Pirateat40 has made Josh a little nervous and testy. It seams the Feds are taking fraud in the Bitcoin space more seriously than some had thought. ![Grin](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/grin.gif)
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The claim of 90 Th/s in 10 days is entirely yours based on the maths of shipping 300 Little Singles per day. BFL never claimed to be shipping 300 Little Singles per day, they claimed to be shipping "about 300 units a day" as shown in the quote you provided. Provide the quote of a BFL employee claiming to have shipped either 90 Th/s in 10 days or 300 Little Singles (as opposed to 300 units) per day. If you can't do that then stop talking out of your arse.
This is the fourth time I have tried to explain why you are on my side. Please pay attention, it is making you look bad. A) BFL_josh made the claim in the article in the OP that they are shipping 300 units a day. B) BFL_jody said they stopped the Jalapeno production line to let the "singles and mini-rig lines catch up". Those two statements in combination (if true) would result in at least 9TH/s per day (over 10 days time the lower bound would be 90TH/s) since by BFL's own admission they had temporarily stopped shipping Jalapeno's. Since 90TH/s is not visible in the hash rate, it does not exist. Therefore, one of those two statements is false. As to which statement: People who were expecting their Jalapenos to be built and shipped (since BFL was close to their pay date) had an unexplained week long wait that generated several forum posts. Therefore, it was more likely that BFL redirected their efforts towards the other lines as Jody claimed. That leaves Josh's statement to a reporter touring the BFL facilities as unlikely to be true. Since this thread is about that statement, I provided the math behind why the title of this thread is somewhat misleading.
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BFL are not claiming they have shipped 90 Th/s in the past 10 working days. You are the one making that claim.
BFL are not claiming they have shipped 90 Th/s in the past 10 working days. You are the one making that claim. BFL claimed they could ship 400+ units per day (400 Jalapenos + whatever else they could build). I haven't seen any claim that they are actually shipping that amount at the moment. Those numbers are not unrealistic, so if they're not hitting them (which certainly seems to be the case), that suggests that they have a problem with supply of components or are too stingy to hire the necessary labour force.
So, did you actually read the article linked in the OP? Is the author lying? “We’re shipping about 300 units a day, but we’d like to be doing more”, Butterfly Labs Chief Operating Officer Josh Zerlan tells me. http://www.coindesk.com/inside-butterfly-labs-the-challenges-of-producing-bitcoin-mining-hardware/That author visited BFL during the time when BFL "stopped the Jalapeno line to let the Singles and Mini-rigs catch up". So yeah, BFL is claiming to have shipped 90TH/s by virtue of claiming to be shipping 300 little singles (or better) a day. Let me provide the entire quote from the article from the OP: "The Butterfly Labs HQ is bustling with employees, over 35 of them I’m told. Customer service, assembly and logistics are all run from the facility. “We’re shipping about 300 units a day, but we’d like to be doing more”, Butterfly Labs Chief Operating Officer Josh Zerlan tells me. We’re standing in the back of their facility in a suburb south of Kansas City. This is the warehouse portion of their headquarters, and it is chock full of boxes from floor to ceiling. A forklift is parked off to the side."Like I said, and as you have just shown, BFL never claimed to have shipped 90 TH/s in 10 days. Actually, it shows the opposite of what you are claiming. If they were shipping 300 units a day, after 10 days they would have shipped 90TH/s. I am not saying BFL shipped 90TH/s in 10 days. I am saying they did not, because that 90TH/s is not visible in the network hashrate. Thus, BFL have not been shipping 300 units a day while they stopped their Jalapeno production to focus on Singles and Mini-rig orders. No Jalapeno's produced + claim of 300 units per day shipping = false claim by BFL. The two claims together are incompatible. We are not talking about BFL claiming 400+ or any other claims you have raised. We are talking about Josh's claim of 300 a day, in the article, in the present tense, in the OP of this thread.
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For the observers, we can tell that the math has been off by a decimal, but that's not actually stupid considering it is still applied math, and yet a common mistake.
You don't have to be a BFL fan to be shocked and amazed that someone doesn't know how many billions make a trillion, and then ask how his math is wrong when he "removed two zeros". The math isn't the issue, it's the persistent trolling from the person that attracts critical responses from others. If he didn't troll, the math would be corrected and glossed over, the thread would move on. BFL never corrects the math. That is the point. Inaba only shows up, throws some LiarDouche Powder (TM) on the thread, says "Two more weeks" and then rides off without having shed any light at all on BFL's failure to meet their obligations to their investors.
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BFL are not claiming they have shipped 90 Th/s in the past 10 working days. You are the one making that claim.
BFL are not claiming they have shipped 90 Th/s in the past 10 working days. You are the one making that claim. BFL claimed they could ship 400+ units per day (400 Jalapenos + whatever else they could build). I haven't seen any claim that they are actually shipping that amount at the moment. Those numbers are not unrealistic, so if they're not hitting them (which certainly seems to be the case), that suggests that they have a problem with supply of components or are too stingy to hire the necessary labour force.
So, did you actually read the article linked in the OP? Is the author lying? “We’re shipping about 300 units a day, but we’d like to be doing more”, Butterfly Labs Chief Operating Officer Josh Zerlan tells me. http://www.coindesk.com/inside-butterfly-labs-the-challenges-of-producing-bitcoin-mining-hardware/That author visited BFL during the time when BFL "stopped the Jalapeno line to let the Singles and Mini-rigs catch up". So yeah, BFL is claiming to have shipped 90TH/s by virtue of claiming to be shipping 300 little singles (or better) a day. Let me provide the entire quote from the article from the OP: "The Butterfly Labs HQ is bustling with employees, over 35 of them I’m told. Customer service, assembly and logistics are all run from the facility. “We’re shipping about 300 units a day, but we’d like to be doing more”, Butterfly Labs Chief Operating Officer Josh Zerlan tells me. We’re standing in the back of their facility in a suburb south of Kansas City. This is the warehouse portion of their headquarters, and it is chock full of boxes from floor to ceiling. A forklift is parked off to the side."
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Let me revisit the math with better labels.
Say BFL can ship 300 units per day. For the sake of argument, lets say those units are little singles. Assume that each little single can do 30GH/s. 300 singles x 30GH/s per single = 9000 GH/s per day shipped. That is 9 TH/s per day claimed to be shipped by BFL. That means in the last 10 working days, BFL claims to have shipped 90 TH/s. 20 working days per month would yield 180TH/s.
Avalon's batch 2 arriving and being switched on is visible. The ASICMiner increase in hash rate from their website is visible. I don't see the extra 90TH/s BFL claims to have shipped in the network hash rate. An extra 90 TH/s every 10 days should be very visible considering the overall network hash rate is ~220 TH/s.
Edit: notice how Inaba shows up in the thread but never actually defends their claim that they could ship 300 units a day.
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Lets say BFL can ship 300 units per day. For the sake of argument, lets say those units are little singles. 300 x 30GH/s = 9000 GH/s per day shipped. That means in the last 10 working days, BFL claims to have shipped 90 TH/s. I see Avalon's batch 2 arriving and the ASICMiner increase in hash rate. I don't see the extra 90TH/s BFL claims to have shipped.
Of course, if any of those units were full sized singles or mini-rigs, there would be even more hash rate. Clearly, they are not assembling 300 singles per day.
Why are you trying to do the math against Josh's claims, you are preaching to the choir buddy. We don't believe Josh. I won't call him a liar because I think he believes what he is saying. I just think he is wrong 100% of the time. So that being said, if he speaks, then he must be wrong. I like to have more than just my tinfoil hat as evidence ![Grin](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/grin.gif)
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Lets say BFL can ship 300 units per day. For the sake of argument, lets say those units are little singles. 300 x 30GH/s = 9000 GH/s per day shipped. That means in the last 10 working days, BFL claims to have shipped 90 TH/s. I see Avalon's batch 2 arriving and the ASICMiner increase in hash rate. I don't see the extra 90TH/s BFL claims to have shipped.
Of course, if any of those units were full sized singles or mini-rigs, there would be even more hash rate. Clearly, they are not assembling 300 singles per day.
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We've got info on KNC's die size and the like, how about an update to the OP? The link links to KnC's own news with fresh technical details and especially 43 mm x 43 mm die size. I just can't believe the die will turn out to be that large. Nobody builds 43x43mm dies. You didn't follow the link, did you? That's a quad solution: four dies on one chip. Each one is 21.5 x 21.5 mm and should have 25 GH/s, but it gives us the same η value as one 43 x 43 mm die outputting 100 GH/s.. Everyone has followed the link. You are measuring the package area not the die area. There are no measurements associated with the ASIC section of that series of pictures. It is bizarre accounting to use the package size for one chip but the die sizes for all the others.
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But, lets say they have for giggles. Its only because of the Jalas which may be why they're so far ahead in Jalas. They somehow figured that they can look good by shipping out all the supply of Jalas they can assemble and side-shaft the Minirigs and Singles. Its a scumbag move through and through.
Have you considered that one model might be easier and faster to build than the others? Nah, that would be too obvious, doesn't fit in with your tin foil hat theory. Their first model they shipped was a little single to Luke-Jr. After 3 months and 22 days they haven't gotten past the first day's worth of single orders... It ain't complexity of assembly, the single is basically a box with 2 jalapeno's in it. After seeing the teardowns, a person can assemble one in 10 minutes.
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We've got info on KNC's die size and the like, how about an update to the OP? The link links to KnC's own news with fresh technical details and especially 43 mm x 43 mm die size. I just can't believe the die will turn out to be that large. Nobody builds 43x43mm dies. I have made this point several times, but it seems to just fall on deaf ears. Plus, the schematic that people are pointing at and saying "die size" is the package schematic not the die schematic. The package is usually several times larger than the die. For instance: ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fencrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcRHTRDg1bdkbBr6zAfkNVFMnzx5ah877VPz7BHHxmHHR7Se_RpX&t=665&c=DdLIHpj_TNIAcw) The outer dimension is the package size, the inner brownish square is the die size.
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