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461  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Latest "China" *announcement* carefull "FUD"...& coindesk continued it?? on: December 17, 2013, 04:04:46 AM
It's been around 12 hours since I woke up to something happening and some information about how the Chinese government is treating bitcoin from some sources, and I still have no clue what's going on.  LOL

Looks like someone noticed the immense information gap between China and the rest of the world, based on how much confusion the PBOC announcement caused, and is exploiting it to manipulate the market during this slow holiday season. Yet another round of cheap coins for those astute enough not to fall for it. Enjoy!
462  Economy / Economics / Re: "Backing" - what does this actually MEAN? on: December 15, 2013, 07:13:30 PM
The term "backing" is completely meaningless in the context of Bitcoin. Backing means that a FIAT currency CAN BE REDEEMED for some commodity, since that fiat currency is nothing more than a promise not to inflate too much.

Bitcoin is not fiat, it can't be inflated, and it doesn't rely on promises, so it is meaningless to ask what it is "backed" by.

Backing is about people pathetically pleading to their government to please not destroy the value of the pieces of paper they are forced to use as legal tender, to please ostensibly allow people to trade it for gold or some other store of value in order to build more TRUST. It has absolutely nothing to do with Bitcoin, and that's GOOD.

By backing people usually mean something that gives money real value (beyond just face-value), thus making it useful for them to hold it. If you agree to this definition, then backing is not meaningless even in the context of Bitcoin. And yes, you redeem a token of fiat currency when you exchange it for goods, so it is backed up by the commodities that are denominated in that currency...

I don't think that's a useful definition of "backing," because it just means utility. If people mean utility they should just say utility. If there are people who use "backing" to mean simply utility, they are either using an ahistorical/nonstandard definition for something much simpler, or they are confused by analogy with centralized currencies.
463  Economy / Economics / Re: "Backing" - what does this actually MEAN? on: December 13, 2013, 04:41:45 PM
The term "backing" is completely meaningless in the context of Bitcoin. Backing means that a FIAT currency CAN BE REDEEMED for some commodity, since that fiat currency is nothing more than a promise not to inflate too much.

Bitcoin is not fiat, it can't be inflated, and it doesn't rely on promises, so it is meaningless to ask what it is "backed" by.

Backing is about people pathetically pleading to their government to please not destroy the value of the pieces of paper they are forced to use as legal tender, to please ostensibly allow people to trade it for gold or some other store of value in order to build more TRUST. It has absolutely nothing to do with Bitcoin, and that's GOOD.
464  Economy / Speculation / Re: SecondMarket CEO: Wall Street Will Put 'Hundreds of Millions' Into Bitcoin on: December 12, 2013, 02:08:54 PM
It takes time for people to research Bitcoin and learn how to store it, etc. You think people are just going to see the news and know what the hell to do to make a secure wallet? That they even comprehend what Bitcoin is after seeing it in a news article? It takes several weeks at minimum, and the price just rose nearly an order of magnitude. These are seismic wealth increases for holders so they are being sold into, as should be well expected. Do you expect an early adopter to maintain a 90% crypto portfolio, and then a 99% one, without rebalancing!? Until the media hype overpowers that effect, and it does look like this past week may be getting there (meaning a boost a few weeks from now), the price will consolidate.
465  Economy / Economics / Re: Slippery Slope's Million Dollar Logistic Model on: December 11, 2013, 07:16:27 AM
Not included are all the efficiencies Bitcoin will introduce into the economy if it goes mainstream. A fully internationalized, frictionless division of labor will be an incredible boon to the economy. And there's so much more. I think a price target of $100 million, conservatively, is more realistic.

If Bitcoin goes big, it pretty much has to go whole hog. We are witnessing nothing less than a global transition from physical goods and trust-based money to an unimpeachable universal asset ledger. Anything else will look archaic by comparison, and the value added to the economy in the next 10 years will blow even these first 20 years of the modern Internet out of the water.
466  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: December 10, 2013, 02:20:45 PM
Yet more smart money understanding that Bitcoin is a store of value more than a currency:

Paypal President David Marcus Owns Bitcoins, Says Bitcoin isn't (Yet) a Currency but a Store of Value
467  Economy / Economics / Re: Monthly average USD/bitcoin price & trend on: December 10, 2013, 12:01:34 AM
If we truly are going to the "more vertical" part of the S-curve,

The accelerating part of the S-curve is only ever exponential growth. It just starts to feel "vertical" to us humans at some point. It doesn't ever go faster than exponential growth (in the ideal curve). The first half is exponential growth and the second half is logarithmic leveling off.
468  Economy / Economics / Re: Monthly average USD/bitcoin price & trend on: December 09, 2013, 11:54:17 PM
Not exactly a new paradigm, but if China had never exploded (in its own much faster exponential move) we would still expect the exponential trendline to hold. But China did explode and is now a major player. Unless we expect China to go back to where it was 8 months ago (x4 for slower exponential gain on the main trendline), shouldn't we count China's jump-in as a one-time bump to the trendline? Perhaps 30% up? That would mean we're still less than 2x the trend and could go much higher in this bubble.
469  Economy / Economics / Re: Distribution of bitcoin wealth by owner on: December 09, 2013, 09:21:41 AM
I have been tracking my bitcoin holding total on http://btc.ondn.net/search for a couple of weeks and I observe that my rank has been moving lower, meaning that there are likely fewer holders with more than BTC me than there were two weeks ago. I think that my rank has improved because I am holding beyond the 100-1000x price increase that tempted other early adopters to sell. Notably my rank improved the most during the crash/correction of December 4-6.

I expect this trend to continue, and will look for it in your updates.

Anyone who follows the SSS should move up in the ranks versus those who don't (except lucky ones who forget or are unusually bold, but those people have to be pretty rare).
470  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: December 09, 2013, 08:45:27 AM
On China's Bitcoin strategy:

http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinSerious/comments/1sbtke/chinas_recent_guidance_great_for_bitcoin_in_china/
471  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: bitcoin starting to fail? on: December 09, 2013, 08:16:51 AM
With  goverments/ banks starting to manipulate/control it and resent price crashes and nto picking back up.. is bitcoin showing signs of failure?

You haven't seen a crash yet. I've seen Bitcoin crash from 30 to 0.01, it hasn't died yet.

I agree.  The rumors of bitcoin's death are greatly over exagerated.

A recurring theme: http://archive.freecapitalists.org//forums/t/32931.aspx
472  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin ready for a correction on: December 09, 2013, 07:47:06 AM
Billing Bitcoin as a currency may not have been a mistake at the beginning, like in 2009-2011, but ever since then it has been. Oh well, more money for the people that get it, like Barry Silbert, Chamath Palihapitiya, and the Winklevoss twins.

Also, I don't recall hearing that people couldn't do trades for goods and services with Bitcoin. It sounded more like they meant Bitcoin should not be considered legal tender, or should not be considered official government currency. Which is pretty much a non-announcement.
473  Economy / Economics / Re: (SSS) - A Sane and Simple bitcoin Savings plan on: December 09, 2013, 07:32:19 AM
Thanks for the input, gents.

I was thinking the goal was to maintain 80/20 ratio, but actually it should be to bring your holdings to this ratio on the way up, but not on the way down.

Anything else is getting into trading and should be left to advanced traders, or perhaps with a very small percentage just for fun.
474  Economy / Speculation / Re: The positive and negative consequences of dramatic Bitcoin price corrections on: December 07, 2013, 02:06:28 PM
He missed one of the best positive effects: distribution of coins to new people.
475  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: December 07, 2013, 01:17:40 PM
Yeah but the interesting thing is it's probably individual officials buying mostly, rather than having some kind of government treasury hold wallet data for the government as a whole or any department. Bitcoin is so good at what it does that it could rip these bureaucracies apart, since for the first time each individual's wealth isn't contingent on the web of trust in the political world. It's a way for even government officials to opt out. And of course not just in China.
476  Economy / Speculation / Re: Analysis of previous bubble corrections and impending crash on: December 07, 2013, 01:08:11 PM
So top out between $800 and maybe $1600? Sounds reasonable, though probably toward the higher end. We haven't even seen any double-exponential growth yet. It'd be a pretty pathetic mania phase if it didn't involve at least one doubling ($1000, from here...but of course there's no accounting for bad news).

I think if we have a mania $266-500 will be support, the new $50 if you will.

Look how earily similar the the last 30 days are to March, even down to slope.



If we follow the same pattern we'll go to $1300 and down to $266-ish, leveling out around $600-700. But history never repeats exactly. Infrastructure is more robust this time, it seems. But to take that into account may be biasing the assumption that MtGox failure ended the April rally prematurely, when it may have just been the straw than broke the back of a severely overheated market.

I'm not the only one who was predicting "go to quadruple digits, crash, then level out in the mid/upper hundreds." Looks like we're getting better. Crash to $266-ish hasn't happened yet, though.
477  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: December 07, 2013, 11:42:29 AM
Holy shit that's the missing puzzle piece (in the conspiracy theory)!

It's well known that China has been encouraging its citizens to stockpile gold, probably so they could confiscate it if needed and as a way of making their citizens richer (a sort of leveraged play on gold).

I was thinking they might be doing the same thing with Bitcoin now. But the problem with the theory was always that they can't really confiscate bitcoins. However, they can sort of do it by manipulating the market and media, laws, etc. It's exactly what you'd expect a powerful and strategically cunning government to do.

It's actually a pretty great strategy. Get your citizens to buy, and if the price goes down it's the same as if they gambled it away in Macau. The government loses nothing much. If the price goes up you get more tax money and economic growth, and then with your strong control of media and everything you can "shake the tree" and still be able to buy in yourself at decent prices once Bitcoin is more solidly a thing.

Lower risk and higher reward than just buying in with your own money right away.
478  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 07, 2013, 11:33:42 AM
A moment of silence for all the panic sellers who will have lost in this most recent, but oft repeated bitcoin ride.  We've all been there.  Your initiation is complete.  Welcome to the club.



This is becoming to sound more and more like troll box where everyone claims to have bought in at 580!

I had a bid at 560 on Gox, just missed it :/
479  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 07, 2013, 11:18:42 AM
"A joint statement from several Chinese official bodies such as the People's Bank of China said Bitcoins are not a currency and cannot be used as a form of payment by any businesses or financial institutions."

is that bold statement correct?  don't think I saw mention of that in discussions here.


The notice said that Bitcoin was “not a currency in the real meaning of the word” but was rather a “virtual commodity that does not share the same legal status of a currency. Nor can, or should, it be circulated or used in the marketplace as a currency.”.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/06/business/international/china-bars-banks-from-using-bitcoin.html?_r=0

In other words people can use it but not require anyone to pay with it. Same as gold, silver, etc.
480  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 07, 2013, 11:14:15 AM
A moment of silence for all the panic sellers who will have lost in this most recent, but oft repeated bitcoin ride.  We've all been there.  Your initiation is complete.  Welcome to the club.

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