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1141  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: There are only 21 THOUSAND bitcoins on: June 22, 2013, 10:09:56 AM
Your realization shows that bitcoin is much more of a ledger and much less of a coin.

Yeah, Bitcoin is really just a point system. When you have trustless, distributed, perfect memory of who has how many points, you don't actually need "money." And of course the point unit doesn't actually matter. What matters is what percentage of the total amount in circulation you control, but it's just easier for our brains to work with "coins."
1142  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / New Chart of Bitcoin's "Superhero" Features for Very Rich People on: June 22, 2013, 09:42:15 AM
Why should all highly wealthy people be excited about Bitcoin? It offers several "superhero" attributes that make it the ultimate store of wealth for people who are rich enough that the possibility of confiscation or even public knowledge of their wealth becomes a major issue eclipsing whatever volatility and other risks Bitcoin may have.



Note 1: I consider the superhero attributes for high net-worth individuals to be:

  • Complete immunity to confiscation (capital controls, border seizures, account freezes upon arrest, etc.)
  • The possibility of complete secrecy of the size of your holdings (the Rothschilds will like this Grin)
  • The unprecedented combination of teleportability and lack of counterparty risk ("all gold's freedom from counterparty risk, but instantly transferable anywhere in the world" - teleportable gold).

Note 2: Chart made in 5 minutes at Compare Ninja. Feel free to copy/modify at will.
1143  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: What Litecoin means for Bitcoin (and crypto in general) once it's on Mt.Gox on: June 22, 2013, 09:22:25 AM
My impression is that both Bitcoin and Litecoin are set up so as for the mining power to always be well ahead of the amount necessary to make a 51% attack unprofitable. A bit more worrisome is some kind of catastrophic technical failure in Litecoin, which is more likely than with Bitcoin since LTC has much less dev support.

But hopefully MtGox will limit LTC trading volume to a sensible level to allow for such risks.
1144  Other / Politics & Society / Re: The Biggist Threat To Decentralized Crypto-Currency And The Bitcoin Ideology on: June 22, 2013, 08:39:31 AM
You SERIOUSLY need to spend much more time in the Economics/Politics section of this forum. You have a lot to learn. This was a very long and very thought out post, and you should be proud of it, but there are just so many misconceptions in it regarding the way people and markets work that it would take for ever to address them all. Sorry.

Well, yah.  That's what I was thinking.  Obviously intelligent and capable, but not having read Hyack, Simons, Grisham, ... wait...

That's a lot of work.  How about just checking out some Peter Schiff youtube videos?

or some other youtube?  What's the quickie intro to economics of the under?

The most painless way to learn basic economics is still Irwin Schiff's original comic book, How an Economy Grows and Why it Doesn't:

http://freedom-school.com/money/how-an-economy-grows.pdf (PDF)

http://home.earthlink.net/~schiffeconomics/01.htm (HTML)
1145  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Implications of Bitcoin for world economy on: June 22, 2013, 08:28:57 AM
Is this behind a paywall? It's asking for a username and password.
1146  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Capitalism. on: June 22, 2013, 08:24:47 AM
Good discussion of "capitalism" from a libertarian/anarchist point of view: http://mises.org/community/forums/t/22196.aspx
1147  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Capitalism. on: June 22, 2013, 08:13:08 AM
Never ask what a word "is" - this is one of the worst intellectual habits you can possibly cultivate - because words aren't anything. They are merely communication tools that can refer to things. Asking what some controversial word "is" is a recipe for a protracted (sometimes centuries-long), hopelessly confused debate.

The question to ask is what each person is trying to get at when they use the word. This is the ONLY way to ever reach clear thinking about a term or (verbalized) concept.

Minarchists define capitalism as free trade, voluntarists define it as a condition of inviolable property rights or lack of central authority, and leftists define it as what libertarians would call corporatism (if they define it at all). These meanings are obviously incompatible; these people speak different languages, so it is a complete mistake and wild-goose chase to ask what the word "really means." It means different things to different people, as different as the word "Gift" means to an American and a German (Gift means poison in German).

Figure out what each person you talk to means by the term before engaging in a debate with them, or else it will just devolve into semantics. And if you are just thinking in your own mind, be sure to figure out what you are trying to get at when you use a key term, rather than pondering about what it "is" like some muddle-headed Platonist. Doing this with everything (even the word "Bitcoin") is one of the best habits you can cultivate for lucid understanding of things.
1148  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: What Litecoin means for Bitcoin (and crypto in general) once it's on Mt.Gox on: June 22, 2013, 07:59:31 AM
Anyone who's worried about altcoins messing things up for Bitcoin, read this:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1bxrrw/playing_devils_advocate_why_bitcoin_will_crash_to/c9bhvme
1149  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: A Philosophy of Bitcoin - Do We Need One? YES! (Metallism, Semiotics, and more) on: June 19, 2013, 07:45:38 AM
By all means, reference away. All ideas here are for spreading. Each of those links I included have had a big effect on how I see Bitcoin and its significance, but they do take a while to read.
1150  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2013-06-13 Let A 1000 Nations Bloom - Bitcoin and Unbreakable Law on: June 14, 2013, 03:35:09 AM
This is a huge possibility space ripe for brainstorming. I suggest everyone take some time out, go for a walk, and consider the possibilities of how Bitcoin could be used to revolutionize aspects of how social and business rules are enforced. You just might come up with an idea that will change the world.
1151  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: June 13, 2013, 01:37:22 PM

You say I should take their definition because I don't have power over them. That's nonsense.
It makes it very difficult to communicate with someone if their definitions differentiates from the majority. It doesn't have to do with surrendering anything.

I cannot and will not accept a definition that's internally inconsistent. Even if all others in the world do accept it. You're right this may impede communication.

If it's a soundbyte you have to use the common definition, but if you have more time I'd say it's definitely worth it to alert people to the doublespeak in their definitions. People will eventually catch on that every key word needs to be investigated and used carefully.

This is true in every field, even investing and Bitcoin generally.

Until people learn to think about what a word is trying to convey rather than what a word "really means," they'll never have any chance of thinking clearly. Ayn Rand was wrong: the most important question we can ask about something (X) isn't, "What is X?" But rather, "What are we trying to get at by saying 'X'?" Instead of treating words as communication tools, people tend to fetishize them, getting stuck on the "actual meaning" of a word as if such a thing existed.

Governments take advantage of this tendency in order to conflate "criminals" (those who break legislated law) with bad people, "crimes" (breaking their laws) with breaking the very rules that allow society to function, their legislated "law" with natural customary law (http://mises.org/journals/scholar/hasnas.pdf). This semantic obfuscation is as insidious as it is powerful and should be confronted whenever possible, in all fields.
1152  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What if Bitcoin is not just a value transfer program but; Direct Democracy? on: June 12, 2013, 07:14:04 PM
Some big confusions in this thread:

  • Governance needn't imply a government. Society can operate peacefully being governed by a structure of laws and norms without any central power structure creating or enforcing those laws.
  • Democracy in the mainstream sense is not only literally "rule by the people" but a centralized form of that rule. Bitcoin and its potential uses allow for a true democracy ("rule" by the people, but not by any specific people; law that is the product of human action but not of human design) that is decentralized - basically anarcho-capitalism, though without any Rothbardian or Friedmanite ethical flavorings.
1153  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: June 12, 2013, 06:42:56 PM
By printing trillions of dollars and giving it to banks, but giving them incentive not to use it by paying interest on it from the Fed to the banks, thereby causing deflation (or just no inflation despite QE-infinity) first, it seems like a gigantic bailout/superbonus to banks, because when deflation hits those trillions will have even more purchasing power (or when inflation doesn't hit those trillions will be worth just as much), which the bankers will get to fully enjoy as they spend the money at full value buy up everything. Since it takes time for the newly issued bank money to ripple through the econoky amd drive prices up, the inflation will only hit like a year or two afterward, when the banks will already own "everything." Jefferson was right? Classic bankster playbook material straight out of the Great Depression (except more ambitious because they now have no gold standard so they can possibly forego deflation entirely in exchange for hyperinflation and bankers owning everything).

The classical strategy would then be to buy gold at the peak of the deflation (or just before the inflation starts - maybe now or soon?) when it'll be cheapest.

However, anticipating this, they might be planning do another gold confiscation as inflation hits. But here Bitcoin comes out of left field... (Not to mention that internationalization and the Internet are big potential monkey wrenches this time; this ain't 1930 anymore, and rehashing the old central banker strategies may not work.)
1154  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin is Memory on: June 12, 2013, 12:44:34 PM
This is the way Bitcoin should be explained. It seems so easy and obvious just to tell people, "Bitcoins are money," but many skeptics* start to poke holes in this, leaving too many doubts for them to invest, or too many question marks in their mind to invest serious dough. As we all know, the percentage of our portfolio we are comfortable allocating to BTC is in direct proportion to the degree of our understanding of Bitcoin and its implications.

This makes lucid communication of the deeper, more accurate conception of Bitcoin a matter of practical importance.

Although it seems harder at first to go through the trouble of explaining this "Bitcoin as memory (not money)" concept, I think it could be explained fairly effortlessly with the right materials and phrasing, and it would allow people to really grasp why Bitcoin is revolutionary and why people pay money BTC. Otherwise they end up thinking people are "buying it to hand off to the next sucker" or "bitcoins aren't backed by anything" or some such nonsense based on the easy but ultimately unsatisfying explanation of Bitcoin as money rather than the more all-encompassing explanation of Bitcoin as memory, which avoids all these misunderstandings.

*Who isn't a skeptic about their own money and novel monetary schemes?
1155  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: A Philosophy of Bitcoin - Do We Need One? YES! (Metallism, Semiotics, and more) on: June 12, 2013, 11:59:14 AM
This isn't about semiotics directly, but as an overall start for serious consideration of Bitcoin with an eye toward deep insights that have practical utility (what else is philosophy, if not this?), I'd start with:

  • Bitcoin, the protocol, is - like customary law - the product of human design, yet not controllable by any person or group (the dev team has limited, tenuous influence but their updates are only accepted at the pleasure of the community, even if the more established players like MtGox currently have disproportionate sway in such matters).
  • Bitcoin, the protocol, sets the parameters for Bitcoin, the ecosystem, to develop as a (Hayekian) natural order of individual humans.
  • Bitcoin, the network, constitutes a public memory system that eliminates the need to use money (or trust) for transactions. It can do so much more as well.

Natural orders are antifragile, become extremely sophisticated but take time to do so, tend toward exponential growth in many aspects, and what they become depends on

1) the nature of the individual "cells" that comprise the natural order (in this case humans)

2) the parameters on the system (the Bitcoin protocol)

3) other environmental factors (in this case the level of related technology, etc.).

1 is generally unchanging because human nature and conventions don't change quickly and 2 changes only with major changes to the Bitcoin protocol, so those may be of little interest.

However, 3 is changing at exhilarating speeds right now, with Internet, the spread of smartphones, and the development of technologies like BMOT. Of course, Bitcoin itself is changing the technological environment, like the Internet did, enabling even faster advancement. The Internet made the cells in this natural order we call global society more apt to collaborate and learn faster from each other, resulting in Bitcoin, which in turn allows the cells (us) to extend our global collaboration into actual economic cooperation in myriad valuable areas through mutually beneficial exchange.

As one major example of the changes, Internet + Bitcoin + Google Glass and other cutting-edge technologies are set to expand the scope of the international division of labor dramatically, both geographically and in terms of fields covered. For example, you could use an app to find and hire a mechanic in India to help you fix your car via Google Glass and pay him in BTC at a price that is both shockingly low for you and wonderfully high for him - trade is made of win, and the bigger the sphere of trading and the more direct it gets from person to person, the higher the standard of living for everyone.

Roger Ver says he's most excited about the changes to society Bitcoin will bring about, but many think Bitcoin's impact on society will be fairly limited. What I think these people don't see is that by changing the technological environment in which society operates on such a fundamental level, the types of structures that develop within the natural order of society will change in a profound way, just like very slightly tweaking the rules in Conway's Game of Life will produce vastly different patterns and structures.
1156  Economy / Economics / Re: Price discovery on: June 12, 2013, 11:21:29 AM
the only problem with sampling 10 exchanges is that each exchange seems to follow (like sheep) mtgox.

That's the very problem OP's proposal is meant to solve. Besides arbitrage and MtGox's still-dominant market share, another significant part of the reason the other exchanges follow MtGox in a sheeplike fashion is that MtGoxUSD is the price everyone watches, and that's partly because there is no convenient way to see a nice weighted average price for all the exchanges.
1157  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin trading becoming more decentralized! on: June 12, 2013, 06:53:40 AM
Proud to be part of the 43%

You mean the 30%? MtGox still controls ~70% of that pie chart, down from I think 80% in 2011. Progress, but very slow progress. That said, it seems much of the change happened in the past few months, presumably in the wake of the DDoS attacks and thanks to the price appreciation and user adoption. Antifragility is slowly working its magic in the face of inertia and the network effects that tend to centralize exchanges.
1158  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: June 11, 2013, 01:41:23 PM
Speaking of which, once we get some way for mainstreamers to have exposure to Bitcoin through a more standard investment vehicle (bitcoin ETF, etc.) we should also see gurus pushing bitcoins like they do precious metals, since they can offer services around it.
1159  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: June 11, 2013, 01:17:26 AM
Sadly much of the reason Bitcoin isn't yet recognized as a mobile (teleportable & hide-able) store of wealth for HNWI is due to misunderstanding within the Bitcoin community itself. People advertize Bitcoin as money and as a medium of exchange and discourage "speculation" without making a distinction between short-term trading for fiat profit and safe-haven wealth protection / long-term investing.

In actual fact, given capital controls and unforseeable events that may force anyone to vacate their country of residence in a hurry (or be wrongfully arrested, etc.), a person of sufficient wealth would have to be a fool not to have a few bitcoins stashed away - assuming the person simply understood Bitcoin. In such circumstances, 5% of your wealth in a brainwallet could mean the difference between a ruined life and a temporary return to a lower standard of living.

Here's the narrative I'd like to be the common Bitcoin community wisdom, because it's true:

"Although at least one solid medium-of-exchange use may have been necessary for bitcoins to become valued when no one knew about or trusted them, with probably over a million users that train has left the station. Bitcoin's functionality as a teleportable and secret store of value is currently its most compelling use for wealthy people, since it is a highly sought-after capability (or would be if people knew such science-fiction-level thing is now possible) provided by no other asset. The consistently extraodinary year-on-year growth is just icing on the cake."

Bitcoin is the ultimate offshore account, and it happens to be experiencing incredible growth as a bonus - more than enough to offset volatility on a yearly timescale.
1160  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: June 10, 2013, 04:16:00 AM
As said in other thread, does someone want to back me up in thinking that this looks like plain old price manipulation Roll Eyes

It certainly has the markings of price manipulation.
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