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941  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: October 22, 2013, 11:12:03 AM
^ I think you answered your own question Wink



In case it's still not clear: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG1qooBzE2w
942  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - China wall movement tracker on: October 22, 2013, 11:01:07 AM
China went beyond exponential this week (see weekly chart below), so it probably should correct to around 1150 or 1200 for a bit, or at least stay at its current level for a while (a day? a week?), before going higher. It could also overcorrect, or it could just plow ahead without caring. Anyway, too much watching the short-term charts will fray your nerves.



Here's the 30-day chart for a bit more perspective. (Anyone have a log chart for BTCChina?)

943  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin might rise $1000 unexpectedly soon on: October 22, 2013, 10:54:59 AM
OK, but don't be the guy who chickens out and sells when the price crashes 80% on its way there, because that kind of rise will be gut-wrenchingly volatile.
944  Economy / Speculation / Re: Is anyone worried how fast BTC is climbing in price? on: October 22, 2013, 10:43:23 AM
There is a very large difference between jumping from $1 to $1.8 and jumping $100 from to $180. It requires many more people, much more effort, and often some differentiating factors to do the second.

The rising price and stronger infrastructure attract more people and capital in a self-feeding cycle of exponential growth. There are plenty more factors that have yet to open Bitcoin to the masses, such as wallet security (Trezor, etc.). Second Market opened exposure to the wealthy less than a month ago. A year ago Second Market wouldn't have done the BIT, because the price and infrastructure weren't there. Each achievement unlocks several doors and reveals many more. Almost everything in the Bitcoin world, most notably the price, is mutually reinforcing.

Differentiation-wise, it seems Bitcoin is differentiated out the wazoo from fiat currencies, so no issue there.

As for differentiation from altcoins, first there is network effects, history, first-mover advantage, the strength of the development team, and inertia (including standardization). Inertia can be disturbed in some extreme cases, history can eventually become relatively more equal but the speed at which that happens is very limited compared to the speed at which the cryptocurrency revolution is happening or the speed of network effects. Bitcoin has such an overwhelming lead in all these areas, and there is so little innovation in the altcoins so far (and any new ones would start with no history) that it would take an amazing development for one to overtake Bitcoin - and Bitcoin users would be better off in that case anyway, since they would be among the first to recognize the investment opportunity, as well as having a better system in the end. That's supposing its features weren't just incorporated into Bitcoin or added on top of it like Mastercoin.

Good money drives out bad when there is a free market, so the best coin will always be dominant, and the great importance of track record in the cryptocurrency world will ensure that the leader cannot change easily.

EDIT: Here's a decent summary of why altcoins aren't anything to be worried about.
945  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: October 22, 2013, 10:27:52 AM
Well, that's a government-subsidized bubble. If the Chinese government is backing Bitcoin, of course all bets are off. We are going to Pluto.
946  Economy / Speculation / Re: Is anyone worried how fast BTC is climbing in price? on: October 22, 2013, 10:04:36 AM
This is my take:

Silk road gets taken down.

People wait a week to see if Bitcoin can exist without it.

Bitcoin does fine.

Oh shit, legit currency guys! BUY BUY BUY!

This is a major one I think. There was a huge contingent of people who thought Bitcoin was powered by SR. Probably everyone suspected it to some degree. There was another big contingent in more official/business circles that worried about the SR association. The shutdown of SR greatly soothed the latter group's concerns and the price action following the shutdown pretty much obliterated the former group's concerns.

More big reasons.
947  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: October 22, 2013, 09:44:17 AM
The sting of $266 is still relatively fresh (about 4 times as fresh as the sting of $32, though that sting was much worse as price slid slowly to 1/16th and stayed very low instead of just a flash-crash to 1/5th and consolidation around 1/2).

However, if we trust zhangweiwu's analysis this thing could go huge for a few days then crash in China, taking the rest of the world along for the ride. All just a side show along the exponential highway to $10,000 and beyond.

This recent price action reminds me of early March, so maybe we consolidate for a week around $200, double a couple of times to like $800, crash to $250-300, then consolidate for a few months in the $500+ range. But of course history won't repeat so exactly.

948  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin might rise over 200 unexpectedly soon on: October 22, 2013, 09:16:44 AM
Remarkably accurate. Not just the price target but the speed at which we cleared 150-200.
949  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: October 22, 2013, 09:00:58 AM
Now that a bit of sanity has been imposed on the China rally they may continue in a more sustainable fashion. This is what price discovery is all about.

A clue to this little correction was available: I was watching Bitcoinity and noticed exponential curve shapes on the 30 day, 7 day, 3 day, 24 hour, and even 3 hour chart. When it goes exponential at all scales, that's when it's cruisin' for a bruisin' and any little thing will tamp it back down (usually only temporarily). That's something I'll keep an eye out for in the future.
950  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: October 22, 2013, 08:43:49 AM
The price is extremely volatile

How can it not be volatile when it grows this fast? That's the thing, slow steady exponential growth may happen for other technologies, but with Bitcoin there is actual money on the line for everyone, so it follows human psychology and has mini-manias where it gets overheated then smarter people step in and correct it. With Bitcoin you have to up your tolerance for volatility to match the speed at which the price is moving.
951  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: October 22, 2013, 08:39:58 AM
Looks like China's still very cognizant of the MtGox price, as of course they would be know it's a Western phenomenon and many getting their first exposure in MtGox pricing. Nevertheless, China wants to blow.
952  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - China wall movement tracker on: October 22, 2013, 08:33:07 AM
Finally a healthy correction. It's expected.
953  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: October 22, 2013, 08:28:56 AM
As China drags us upward, this is the kicking and screaming part as we get whisked past the big psychological barriers on China's terms, not ours.
954  Economy / Speculation / Re: Is anyone worried how fast BTC is climbing in price? on: October 22, 2013, 08:22:02 AM
And no, looking in log-scale is not "cheating".  Going from 1 to 1.8 is just as spectacular as going from 100 to 180.

This is false. Think about it in terms of "people involved" and "money volume necessary to cause a price level increase", and you will see $100 to $180 is much different than $1 to $1.8

Think about it in terms of exponential growth, as in exponential amount of an "people involved" each bringing along individual "money volume necessary to cause a price level increase", and you will see $100 to $180 is actually pretty similar to $1 to $1.8

Exponential increases in people and money flow are not easy things to accomplish. Such occurences are the exception, not the rule (don't fall prey to survivor bias). That isn't to say it won't happen, just acknowledging the facts.

It is when you're still tiny and have network effects via myriad channels.
955  Economy / Speculation / Re: How long does it take for bitcoin value to double?? on: October 22, 2013, 08:05:50 AM
This post shows what a bubble looks like, when the price is going parabolic not only on the linear chart but also the log chart, when the time between doublings is getting exponentially faster.

In short, a bubble in an exponential growth pattern looks like double-exponential growth - that is, exponentially increasing rates of exponential growth. For example, doubling every month would be straight exponential growth (a straight-line slope on a log chart), but doubling in a month, then two weeks, then one week would be double-exponential growth (exponential curve can be seen even on the log chart).

If you want to know when we're in a bubble, learn to recognize double-exponential growth. Study the four-year log chart daily to keep perspective. If you see curling upward even on that chart, you know people are getting carried away.
956  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: October 22, 2013, 06:59:45 AM
They're not really walls... 12K btc could take out the ENTIRE order book. That dump used to happen every day on gox.

Yeah, but btcchina is also one chinese exchange among many. And look at the books on Gox and Stamp... talk about being dragged along Cheesy

Yep, "kicking and screaming" hopefully through the ATH, though a correction and break before that seems likely.
957  Economy / Speculation / Re: When will October's bubble burst? on: October 22, 2013, 06:37:27 AM
I think the problem is that Chinese bitcoin speculators didn't get bit hard by the last two bubble bursts so they can run this up who knows how high before it pops.  It will eventually pop because there's no sane reason for it to constantly be going up other than that people see the price going up and are thus buying lots of bitcoins to try and ride it up.  Who knows how long this will run but I'm more curious where it'll end up.
I'm pretty sad though since I got rid of most of my holdings a while back to buy something in bitcoin and now I've apparently paid 50% more in fiat.  =(
Oh god, imagine a 2011-style bubble in China. Bigger and faster than the 2013 bubble (which is now looking more like an exponential upward correction).
958  Economy / Speculation / Re: Recent events in pictures. on: October 22, 2013, 05:50:51 AM
So what you're saying is, panic sellers mostly only sell so they can get more bitcoins? Sounds good to me.
959  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: October 21, 2013, 07:18:58 PM
This fallacy that deflation means people won't spend is very persistent, even though briefly thinking it through demonstrates it isn't the case, at least not for very long. Deflation takes holders from (relatively) poor to wealthy. What do poor people do when they become wealthy? Keep living in their cheap apartment or car? Or BUY better stuff? They splurge. That is why bitcoin tips go up when the price rises and merchants do better when the price rises.
960  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: October 21, 2013, 07:13:33 PM
so if the price keeps rising, how would we ever use it as a real currency to buy stuff?
i'm pretty sure everybody who has them has them for buy and hold or making profit, not for purchasing goods - I certainly don't because in two months the price might have doubled, and I would curse myself for giving them away "back then" instead of using real currency.

The time for BTC to actually act as a real currency are still years away, this is the time of great volatility and opportunity for those of us who can see what the future of money is.

Exactly.
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