IBM provided punch card technology to the Nazis which enabled them to target various groups within the community.
History repeats itself... like an endless fractal. |
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you can still go to supermarkets no matter what
stop making up idiot conspiracies.
we get it you lost the old idiot conspiracy about nano robots
we get it you lost the old idiot conspiracy about monkey/fetus tissue
we get it you lost the old idiot conspiracy about vaccine more deadly than the disease
just accept your losses and start dealing with facts. stop creating more lies. its never going to win you anything
Well, let's just say this didn't age too well.  seems we have a conspiracy nut..
there is no biometric government ID+healthcare 'passport' that will link everything together and allow freedom of access to flights by 2021. and it appears there wont ever be.
take your tin foil hat off This didn't age too well either: https://edition.cnn.com/travel/carbon-passports-explainer/index.html  What I don't understand either is how there are people who, when there are so many billions of $ at stake, blindly trust the pharmaceutical companies.
"Trust, don't verify"That's our motto now. Why do you think Bill Gates or any other big-pharma company would do something to harm people? Did they ever do this? No, of course not. Pfizer for example is as innocent as a newborn baby. Close your eyes and believe Poker Player. Everything will be great. I'm genuinely disappointed when I see Bitcoiners blindly trusting governments and Big Pharma. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/24840410/secret-california-lab-deadly-viruses-humanised-mice-china/And you want to inject me with something that will change my DNA? The vaccine does not change your DNA. There is no way it even could change your DNA without rewriting everything we know about cell biology. This didn't age well... https://en.protothema.gr/pfizer-mrna-vaccine-goes-into-liver-and-changes-into-dna-swedish-study-finds/It's basic high-school Biology knowledge: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_transcriptaseYes, older people and those with comorbidities have a higher risk of death from COVID (and I never claimed otherwise), but young people are dying, healthy people are dying, and young healthy people are dying. Many young people are fat. That's not "healthy": https://www.ft.com/content/7db2b641-c831-4876-ba0c-0f815a42c8f0?segmentID=5b3cb929-a23e-88ae-662f-4cae036b0dee"Fat acceptance" is a scam to keep people unhealthy. |
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You know what's ironic? Some people on this forum staunchly endorse WEF's agenda ("human-made" climate change hysteria, Digital ID, CBDC etc.), but they agreed with your post and even gave you merit. Why? Because they're afraid of losing their precious mixer income. They still believe Great Reset is a silly, tinfoil hat conspiracy theory for lunatics. They still believe Klaus Schwab is a good guy. I have zero pity for them. They got what they deserve. It's called karma.  This. I have created threads on these topics and they never gathered any attention. Especially the id2020 thread only had 2 posts from the other members. (7 mine, 2 from timelord and franky) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5320484 > Vaccine passports https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5320443 > id2020 The other dude says theymos made a mistake banning the mixer talk like he would do something different. The history of the mankind is the history of hypocrisy. Long story short: "Everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die."We indeed deserve what's coming to us. I wholeheartedly agree with you. I'm glad I'm not alone. I've also made anti-WEF threads and they've garnered some attention, but they mostly tried to mock me and dismiss me as a "crazy conspiracy theorist". How does it feel now to have a taste of their own medicine? For me personally Bitcoin carries a clear political (libertarian) message: never trust the state and puppet politicians. Whoever trusts/endorses even a single bullet point from WEF's Great Reset agenda is definitely my enemy.I can't really blame theymos either, this forum is centralized and he has to protect himself. I'm surprised we don't have a decentralized forum alternative 14 years later on. Hopefully Nostr will fill this niche. |
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Is this the shiny future we should be waiting for? Guess we are supporting the 2030 Own Nothing Be Happy ideology too? You know what's ironic? Some people on this forum staunchly endorse WEF's agenda ("human-made" climate change hysteria, Digital ID, CBDC etc.), but they agreed with your post and even gave you merit. Why? Because they're afraid of losing their precious mixer income. They still believe Great Reset is a silly, tinfoil hat conspiracy theory for lunatics. They still believe Klaus Schwab is a good guy. I have zero pity for them. They got what they deserve. It's called karma. There is a high chance that account FIODNederland is legit because: The account was created 2.5 hours before fiod.nl published this article, and posted about it 6 minutes after publication. [Quote from archived post, posted by LoyceV] and theymos cashed their copper membership fee Just came across this post and now I wonder who would put up that post. I mean the timing that Synchronice mentioned is very interesting, the account being set up as a Copper Member is very interesting, and the likelihood that countless of accounts here work on behalf government agencies is quite high, isn't it?  Interesting "coincidence". What does "Copper Member" mean? Does this forum have a paid subscription or what?  For a small fee you can set up an account that grants you certain functions a newbie account wouldn't have. That way you can post images, like the account did with the website of the seizure. It's almost granted that this person understands Bitcointalk relatively well if you also take into account the timings, like the setup of the account, the paid Copper membership, the post and the publication of the article talking about the seizure. Could be someone from the investigation team that worked on the Sinbad case. And yet, theymos claims he was "never" contacted by authorities: I'm curious myself if there were any formal requests or warnings received
We've received no warnings or requests to change policy from law enforcement regarding mixers. What does "Copper Member" mean? Does this forum have a paid subscription or what? You've been here for nearly 6 years and still don't know what copper membership is? That's a little odd, but okay. Believe it or not, I don't pay too much attention to stuff like that. I know some forums (such as NeoGAF) do have a subscription. |
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There is a high chance that account FIODNederland is legit because: The account was created 2.5 hours before fiod.nl published this article, and posted about it 6 minutes after publication. [Quote from archived post, posted by LoyceV] and theymos cashed their copper membership fee Just came across this post and now I wonder who would put up that post. I mean the timing that Synchronice mentioned is very interesting, the account being set up as a Copper Member is very interesting, and the likelihood that countless of accounts here work on behalf government agencies is quite high, isn't it? Interesting "coincidence". What does "Copper Member" mean? Does this forum have a paid subscription or what? |
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By the way, I don't know if blackhatcoiner promotes the mixer usage to gain more profit because he probably doesn't own mixer and profit generated from mixer signature is not enough to live or survive in Europe (he seems to be from Greece). I can't talk about BHcoiner but there are genuinely some people who advocate for protecting privacy. BlackHatCoiner earns $1200/month (his words, not mine) from advertising mixers. Trust me, that's enough to live in Greece. The minimum wage is €660/month, so he earns more than that and he even loves shitposting and arguing with franky1 and others to increase his post count (again: his words, not mine). How are we sure that angelo is from greece I'm able to confirm it. He has also participated in other Greek forums. You can also check his posts in the Greek subforum of bitcointalk. Bitcoin mixing may not be money laundering, but money launderers use mixers to launder money. That basically means anytime someone steals crypto and sends them through a mixer, that mixer is now guilty in laundering money and all those associated with it could also be seen as breaking the law. So mixers are all basically just waiting for their own shutdown.
I'm not in favor of mixing if we're talking about laundering stolen money from exchanges (such as MtGox). Traceability is a good thing in certain cases. Unfortunately, yeah, some people aid criminals. I don't believe everyone who uses mixers is a criminal, but you can definitely be associated with criminals and get in trouble. If people want true anonymity, they should migrate to Monero. I know BTC maxis will disagree, but BTC wasn't designed to do everything and Satoshi disappeared all of a sudden. |
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The question is: is it better to use card payments with the current system? Or CBDCs? To me they are the same. I see no difference at all. Card payments are definitely less bad than CBDCs. Your credit card provider refuses to let you make a payment? You can at least try another provider, or a bank transfer, or some other option. A government refuses to let you make a payment with their CBDC? Nothing you can do about it. As I said, I don't claim to be the ultra revolutionary, but I hate both. I realise that CBDCs are far worse but in my opinion card payments are also bad, because they ar connected to the banking system. The latter is a system I have learnt to live with, but it doesn't mean I like it. Finally, banks try to make money in every possible way, getting absurd money if people fail to pay their credit balance. So, my point is we should not have CBDCs , nor banks. That's why I call them equally bad. The card provider companies get money as a fee for their services, so perhaps my initial accusations are not very fair. But, nevertheless, they are linked with the current financial system, aren't they? I still think you're a bit confused. CBDCs aren't about making money (VISA/MasterCard already do that as you said). They're about total control/enslavement. The government/EU Commission will legislate a daily/monthly/yearly quota of how much red meat you're allowed to consume. Don't believe me? Check it out yourself: https://en.topwar.ru/218234-nemeckie-chinovniki-predlagajut-ogranichit-potreblenie-mjasa-v-strane-do-10-grammov-v-den-na-cheloveka.htmlPlease don't dismiss this if you're vegan, because they also plan to limit other things too... your gasoline consumption, how often you'll be able to use airplanes etc. Bitcoiners are staunch defenders of freedom, right? That's why NO ONE should accept the Digital ID (CBDC wallet): https://commission.europa.eu/strategy-and-policy/priorities-2019-2024/europe-fit-digital-age/european-digital-identity_en
ps: I'm not talking about taking loans. You're confused.
I'm talking about regular debit cards.
Ok this is what I thought. Sorry. Wait, are you saying that bank credit core system is similar to social credit score? You must be joking. These are not the same, not even close.
When bank loans you money it wants to know how if you have a stable job, if you have other existing loans and such.
A social credit score is when they check your recent posts on social platforms to see if you support the government and decide if they should loan you money based on that.
The only thing I am saying mate is that they both suck. Between the bad, the worst option may be CBDC but I want to clarify that the current economic system which is bank based, has already huge flaws. No bank credit system is not similar to social credit score. In fact I don't even want to know what the latter is.But when the bank adds 17% on top of your expenses because you were one month late and then VISA gets 3% of that, I am sorry, I hate this equally. If you talk about Debit payments then essentially VISA will get 3% of every payment you make, which is a service fee and it's not that bad. But again the bank owns the money you think you own, so... I mean don't get me wrong, the only thing I am saying is we choose the bad from the worse. And of course this: A social credit score is when they check your recent posts on social platforms to see if you support the government and decide if they should loan you money based on that is the most unethical thing I have ever seen, but it's not the only one. I've posted this video before, check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5uqMmAGk8cAlso this one: https://blog.independent.org/2022/12/01/klaus-schwab-china/You guys still think the West won't become like China? Bonus video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjxJ1wPnkk4I guess that's enough red pilling for today. |
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I just looked at your trust page to figure out who left what, and I have no clue what you're talking about. Did someone leave a neg for something you said related to the issue at hand, or do you have a persecution complex? I'm genuinely curious.
Og might be thinking that someone excluded him for saying something nasty about mixers, but the reality is that he started attacking people for wearing Chipmixer signatures (like LoyceV and myself and a few others) after he got called out on his own shenanigans. People tend to see the speck in the other's eye, and in Og's case he sees a lot of problems with mixers but apparently sees no problem with living in Arizona and advertising in his signature an illegal casino in the USA: Why is Stake Illegal in US? | AlternativesBack to the central theme of the thread, it's a bummer, but probably necessary to prevent greater evils, although it leaves the outlook for the future looking very bad indeed. Bitcoin transactions are on their way to becoming more and more like banking transactions, where the authorities know who is sending the money and who is receiving it. It's a thing that will take time if it eventually ends up happening that way, but that's the trend we're on. I do not believe that will happen. People will find ingenious solutions (DEX + BTC/XMR swaps). But yeah, if you want to convert BTC to CBDC, good luck with that, you're pretty much fucked!  |
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I think we as a community failed big time.
14 years have passed, and we have not built anything truly decentralized
- No decentralized forum/community platform
- No truly decentralized exchange
- No truly decentralized mining pool
- No truly decentralized mixer
Too much power/responsibility is put in the hands of a few, creating terrible single points of failure. It's only a matter of time before they start banning everything that contributes to users' privacy/anonymity on the blockchain. We need to start looking for alternatives to everything we use today, something truly decentralized by ownership. Best post I've read so far. There's a reason Satoshi designed Bitcoin in such a way that it would become truly decentralized eventually (initially it started centralized on a single PC -> Satoshi's computer). What would happen to bitcointalk.org if theymos died? The forum would most likely die too. Someone should design a decentralized forum protocol... maybe something like Nostr. ps: TBH, I don't think most people here care about "freedom" or "decentralization", they mostly care about losing their precious signature campaign income. Let's be honest, shall we? I've never visited this forum to make money, I'm merely here for discussions. That's the purpose of forums. And I can answer: "There are torrent sites that you can do, it's a matter of searching on those sites." With the exception that you should never suggest anyone to search a mixer on the Internet, unless you want them to get scammed. Like, we can't expect anyone to migrate to Russia for simply running a forum. I meant to host the forum elsewhere, not migrate elsewhere. I'm not a lawyer though. It's possible that as a US resident, hosting a legally operating site in Africa could lead to legal consequences in the US. But there already exist trustless and decentralized ways to mix coins. Sure, but this in-forum censorship makes me wonder. If I don't have the right to even talk about anti-government activities like this instance, how valuable decentralized alternatives are? I know what you'll say, theymos wasn't blackmailed to enact this type of censorship, and that it has been done as precaution. It's just that, from my perspective, privacy-protecting tools become less and less available as time goes by. This year, a bill was proposed to discriminate against any coin which isn't controlled inside a KYC-ed exchange. Mixers fall apart, one after the other. Open-source, privacy-proclaimed services like Wasabi partner with anti-privacy organizations. Where are we heading to? very likely a George Orwell 1984 style world. This will definitely happen if people don't take a stand against Digital ID. I've tried to warn them, but to no avail... Governments are NOT your friend.-very likely a George Orwell 1984 style world.
That's what some governments appear to be pushing for, sure. But there are enough determined people within this community who won't stand for that sort of thing. They harder they push, the harder we push back. Again, people are talking here as though we've lost something. Everyone can continue to use these services if they choose to. We simply have to maintain the thin veneer of discretion about it. And one day we'll likely find ways to build protocols to replace these services so that the whole thing becomes impossible to shut down. Then we win. It's not as bleak as it looks. It's pretty "bleak" if you lose $1200/month.  For some people in poorer countries this is higher than the minimum wage...  |
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Κάτι μου λέει ότι έρχονται χρυσές μέρες για το Monero. |
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CBDC introduces new variables (carbon credits, social credit score). Cards are different.
But credit cards are linked with banks. This means Visa, MasterCard etc all implement a credit score system for banks. Btw yeah I have read the entire discussion. No, they don't implement a mandatory carbon credit/social credit score system. When was the last time you saw VISA/MasterCard reject your red meat/gasoline purchases? ps: I'm not talking about taking loans. You're confused. I'm talking about regular debit cards. |
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People aren't entering a new jail, it is the same jail as they were in before with a new name. The goal of CBDCs is to eliminate cash and have everything electronic, and therefore have everything 100% traceable and 100% censorable. This is definitely worse than the current system, where you can at least escape some surveillance and retain some control by using cash. The question is: is it better to use card payments with the current system? Or CBDCs? To me they are the same. I see no difference at all. I hate both, but I admit I use card payments a lot. Some entity is behind the transaction anyway, so... They are NOT the same. Have you read the entire discussion? CBDC introduces new variables (carbon credits, social credit score). Cards are different. |
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Oh well, I guess some people will stop (shit)posting... I know someone who made $1200/month (not a lot of money in the USA, but still plenty enough in poorer countries). If people don't like Theymos' decision (that's fine), they should start a decentralized forum, because bitcointalk.org has always been centralized. Deal with it.I think you do not know that the mixers have the best posters and are the best paying campaigns. None of the mixer participants is shit poster.Are you sure about that? I have written proof about my claims. |
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Oh well, I guess some people will stop (shit)posting... I know someone who made $1200/month (not a lot of money in the USA, but still plenty enough in poorer countries). If people don't like Theymos' decision (that's fine), they should start a decentralized forum, because bitcointalk.org has always been centralized. Deal with it. |
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Oh well, I guess some people will stop (shit)posting... I know someone who made $1200/month (not a lot of money in the USA, but still plenty enough in poorer countries). If people don't like Theymos' decision (that's fine), they should start a decentralized forum, because bitcointalk.org has always been centralized. Deal with it. |
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The current banking system doesn't have: 1) carbon credits, 2) social credit score.
Current banking system already has a record of all your financial activity that goes through them without having a fancy disguise for it and on top of that there is a massive database in NSA with your every move inside of it, your financial activity is the least of it. After all they have to use their tens of billions of dollars budget for something! You still don't get it... my point wasn't the record of financial history. Currently I'm able to buy as much red meat/gasoline as I like with fiat money (either cash or credit/debit card). Right? Will you be able to do the same with CBDC? Or will they restrict your red meat/gasoline consumption to "mitigate" climate change? Answer this question please. THEY aren't optional, Bitcoin is. You have the option to choose bitcoin to exit that corrupt system and cut the hands that are in your pocket. Sure, BTC is an option (as long as it doesn't become centralized/censor-friendly). XMR is potentially another... You will be forced to use the black/grey market to buy red meat or gasoline in the future. They will be like drugs (cocaine, heroin). People don't use banks/cards to buy drugs, they use cash for a reason. |
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People aren't entering a new jail, it is the same jail as they were in before with a new name. The goal of CBDCs is to eliminate cash and have everything electronic, and therefore have everything 100% traceable and 100% censorable. This is definitely worse than the current system, where you can at least escape some surveillance and retain some control by using cash. Exactly! I know no-coiners who understand this, so I'm surprised Bitcoiners don't get it. Judging by this thread, there is some denial that CBDCs aren't necessarily a bad thing, in fact it's such a "good" thing that people will be "enthusiastic" to abandon physical cash in favor of CBDC!  My disappointment arises from the fact that I have high expectations from Bitcoiners (unless they pretend to be Bitcoiners and in reality they're undercover feds)... they should not be so gullible. CBDC is like a digital jail. Once you enter it, there is no going back to normal (as Klaus Schwab has said). I wouldn't call CBDCs good or bad. They are what they are and that's not a new thing. People aren't entering a new jail, it is the same jail as they were in before with a new name. They entered that jail the day centralized banking was introduced and they went deeper into it as it grew specially with digital banking. The centralized authority will hunger for more control and surveillance. The only thing that should matter to us is to preserve Bitcoin's principles so that we can keep it as that "exit option", not try to change the centralized world. Not true. The current banking system doesn't have: 1) carbon credits, 2) social credit score. Look it up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djpRUafjx7cMasterCard has already implemented it: https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/vision/corp-responsibility/priceless-planet/carbon-calculator.htmlhttps://www.mastercard.com/news/press/2021/april/mastercard-unveils-new-carbon-calculator-tool/And no, this won't be optional with CBDC + Digital ID... I remember people thinking COVID mRNA vaccines would be "optional". They're "optional" only if you don't mind losing access to workplaces, universities, hospitals, cafes/restaurants (remember the QR/Green Pass?) etc. The danger is real and the more people dismiss it, the more it creeps up into our lives. |
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