Awesome job Tachikoma! This is really exciting!
Can you modify the order book to distinguish test MSC transactions?
Done. Although I don't expect non-test transactions in the near future. A lot of testing will have to be done before we can allow real transactions. There are so many edge cases that need to be tested. Building the initial code is the easy part.. And with that it's time for some sleep.  |
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I'm happy to report that the first distributed Mastercoin to Bitcoin transaction using the Mastercoin protocol has been done. I sold 10 test Mastercoin to myself for the sum of 0.0001 Bitcoins. Let me explain how this works. I added recent distributed transactions to the order book page on mastercoin-explorer. I achieved all this using the mastercoin-explorer website and Bitcoind, if anybody knows how to deal with the Bitcoin-qt/d console and wants to try this let me know. As always this is just my implementation of the rules set out by the official spec, this won't be set in stone until the other developers come up with their own implementations and they come to the same conclusion as my libraries. This is quite a difficult Mastercoin message so I expect things to change around a little before everything is final. We are getting closer 
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Awesome, let's do that for now |
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Zathras / Grazcoin need your thoughts on the following.
User A has 300 Mastercoins and creates/broadcasts selling offer to sell these 300 coins. What happens with user A's balance?
Two options as I see it:
1. The 300 get deducted from his balance making it 0 and simple send transactions sent while his offer is still valid open will get invalidated until he cancels the offer.
2. The 300 stay and are not reserved, only accepted offers get deducted from the balance. If User A sends 100 coins while the offer was still open and User B wants to purchase 300 coins his Purchase Offer will be invalid and he should not send the funds.
I prefer option 1 since it makes things easier to work with and it's expected behaviour on exchanges. This would also mean that you can't make an valid offer that is larger then the amount of MSC that you hold.
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J.R. hinted that the the Mastercoin spec is being rewritten to markdown. If this is the case documentation will get a lot easier to do. Currently J.R. has sole control over this and I believe this is a real problem since we are currently amending it by forum posts and other documents spreading the documentation out and making everything harder.
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That's actually a fair point if you intend the multisigs to be redeemed by the user at some point in the future when bitcoin supports it in the GUI, but since they're almost dust I had seen cleaning up (redeeming/consolidating) multisig outputs as a regular maintenance task for a Mastercoin wallet - all part of cleaning up after ourselves (blockchain wise).
And yep they don't affect the transaction other than adding weight. Though I do feel the weight is substantial if we're trying to be lightweight (66 bytes vs 98 bytes for the pubkeys in a simple send).
What are your thoughts on redeeming the multisig outputs in Mastercoin software itself as a regular task? (eg consolidate into a standard pubkeyhash output every 10/20/50 transactions etc)
That was what I was proposing. The software could keep track of how many multisigs are done and if it thinks it's efficient to redeem them all back to a normal address it will do just that. As for the change amount.
As soon as there are some stable wallet implementation which has a 'consolidate multisig output' I think we should send the change amount to the multisig output. It saves a bit of space and looks cleaner. For now however, since it's hard to redeem multisig outputs, let's keep the change amount separate.
I can't say I agree with this - a multisig will never be added to the users balance until it's redeemed (as far as bitcoin is concerned there are two parties that could potentially redeem the output). Thus every time a user sent a Mastercoin transaction their bitcoin balance would reduce by what they'll probably see as a random amount (and we know as change). Whilst they could get the balance back with the 'consolidate multisig' button you suggest, this is an extra (IMO unnecessary) step that could cause confusion and fear. [/quote] I guess this is true. From a UX standpoint it does not make much sense to do that. Let's keep it seperate. |
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Download the tar.gz file, extract it via the finder. Open a terminal and navigate to the extracted folder. Issue the command sudo easy-install ./
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how far are we from finishing the distributed exchg
Progress is being made although the last few weeks we have been working on improving the message encoding itself. I've broadcasted the first ever Mastercoin BTC/MSC exchange message on the 25th of October. You can see it here on Mastercoin-explorer. For convenience I also made an order book page which shows all broadcasted orders. There is no way to accept these orders for now or for any non-technical to create offers but I expect there might be in the next week or so. |
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Other than the senders pubkey in the multisig being uncompressed/compressed and what we do with change in a Class B, are there any other areas of the amendment that are open to debate or do we agree on everything else? Thanks! I think I'm caught up with everything that has been said over the weekend but I'm not sure. As far as the compressed/uncompressed discussion goes. I think this really should not matter. As far as I know it does not (or should not) influence the inner workings of Mastercoin itself all transactions should be parsed the same regardless of what kind of key is being used. I think we should allow both since I think Bitcoin do won't recognise a transaction as your own if you use a compressed key. In the future the reference client might build in support for multisig redemption via the GUI and if we all force compressed keys that might not work for people using Mastercoin. I would still vote to keep the keys in the source format. So whatever the user of a wallet supplied. As for the change amount. As soon as there are some stable wallet implementation which has a 'consolidate multisig output' I think we should send the change amount to the multisig output. It saves a bit of space and looks cleaner. For now however, since it's hard to redeem multisig outputs, let's keep the change amount separate. how far are we from finishing the distributed exchg
Progress is being made although the last few weeks we have been working on improving the message encoding itself. I've broadcasted the first ever Mastercoin BTC/MSC exchange message on the 25th of October. You can see it here on Mastercoin-explorer. For convenience I also made an order book page which shows all broadcasted orders. There is no way to accept these orders for now or for any non-technical to create offers but I expect there might be in the next week or so. Just a quote from other thread where somebody was asking for an update on the BTC/MSC progress. |
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I'm working on adding a permanent view into Mastercoin-explorer but because time is as always the limiting factor :/ Here is a one time off top-50. Here is a CSV of each address and their balance. Seeing this overview I spotted a transaction that is being parsed wrong so that's worth something. Edit: Couldn't help myself and added the top 50 to Mastercoin-explorer. It might be a tad slow since it's not being cached and the lookup is very inefficient but it works for now. Haha beat me to it Tachikoma I wanted to ask if the guys doing the order book would publish the chart ( howto) so I can have a live update here - at the moment it's just a static image placeholder (the rest of the data is dynamic though). Your solution is much more elegant! I just did simple hack until I find time to do it properly. I will be offline the rest of the weekend sadly so I will see you all on monday |
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Edit: Couldn't help myself and added the top 50 to Mastercoin-explorer. It might be a tad slow since it's not being cached and the lookup is very inefficient but it works for now. Yes, very cool Tachikoma, thanks! Would it be possible to also get a column showing each addresses percentage of all Mastercoins? You ask, I code. Refresh the page. 5 addresses (people?) control 60% of all Mastercoins. |
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I'm working on adding a permanent view into Mastercoin-explorer but because time is as always the limiting factor :/ Here is a one time off top-50. 15WrQhYhHts7jTMoGJ9rDCD12JuCTKy7MM - MSC 175195.17794312
196V2uB471HoMHwbkQRQRiwd3aYpU6RtWg - MSC 59941.29166667
1D11zSkRGnn6VMgaipqNeD2rtQfN5ywos3 - MSC 50420.46130952
17VP7dV8dxn3pDVxrjtgPiKhs37FLBBX7u - MSC 29960.53799753
1BBTQrfsZQVoGwdPfp7NfMg7F4pYes2F1s - MSC 20133.76085646
1HcQb16RSjdiH622sNs7Qsqt5vNWWa7oKV - MSC 18014.50892857
172mDyjew7PnUpMRdNPjjv1bU1u4Ftgs3M - MSC 13799.64285714
1G3Cyx194o3yLbKFmzR4NtNE6fxJSRowkp - MSC 10283.43584656
16pdW8RQjJpF37FLMm7R65HBvn6WY33Pq8 - MSC 10030.18683862
163dXoX3bfrM8t8DwbhzfHdGYNQfYfXhK6 - MSC 7035.14632937
139Dx25QXHBJD1tfLQMwASAAJrWFiM4BPz - MSC 6775.31586309
1CbYgvA148Ew5j22S2rbgFCKToQTwRnKfS - MSC 5993.36778588
1K9ETVUmDcfahqzoanBBmbaDqVmUmqrQJS - MSC 5888.10138889
1LX1Nv7C6RnR18ir3r5GrmyVvG1yy2EnRa - MSC 5737.73946346
1NQSMowgQVWprE1dwdbzTwCfFrVXK6sUh2 - MSC 5372.22387566
1Eo6FGPytuYvuA3ZS6ToXqP8sScWWtKhWN - MSC 5016.50257937
12SdZk7Gd19zbvQZDF447PpHSpGY5SGYE2 - MSC 4809.98334741
1Pd1ESY2Hfb8Mom6aTJnpJBEAnkzghgRJq - MSC 4407.0484127
1AGFxUanxnWnrTiwLsY4NyvNZTv3RWFnfT - MSC 3687.47620688
17bGDJTMeiWx4LJdf8gECEPFMmCpY2jA66 - MSC 3361.61142053
1Bqp4VEweM1S8FKGHWYviRRtSxv5tMAVih - MSC 3145.95691137
18WANHBTcj8u2GU1PY4h1iG4EbvgYJM4gL - MSC 3037.97619048
1HLdSSpvRDcAyD9k91yS7X9o2jaJiKeqp4 - MSC 3027.44598213
18fjRdAxg1aQbw1DeNM68nsD2PiEfayqfJ - MSC 3024.51636905
1K5ZEkQ8Pzwqedg2WHsKQd3xiAGnj7MeCD - MSC 3013.15819775
1KRaQh3k47P4Mu4XXviRGHrgYi7BK5hsAV - MSC 2666.25859788
1AJzXcrPJbXudbRF43d9j2pympLo5k5Gut - MSC 2533.18511571
1JU1GS7GyHg6XYqq5JjNUquzsWgHoUFAGR - MSC 2384.23635218
1PA8qhEzW7to6EeqBAdhVZYGbVj2MfmN2n - MSC 2311.91243386
14S5bE4ZGbb4oMXsnNn4zErdKBN5Lyiihb - MSC 2153.05886243
1CQhTj5tAtvzGti2oUiBqF2D8gGvGkJbTo - MSC 2136.4582403
1KDCt8VoY45ya3QnExwtZEdugAnRAncr1Z - MSC 2120.53654101
12bDX26J84x545pzfSZouULeqjfBtAe9Lv - MSC 2097.99940476
1FLyLEzRvV5ucRaHBcXfhqSQnwjsnCaVhH - MSC 2086.75
17CoqK7cqNVLyv1CawzsGT12eTMP2fmHuy - MSC 2025.85582011
1Po9mw5bbgx3HxHZ8Vch24XcmHTiFTRDuW - MSC 2003.19874339
12VamRhmcgsWWKWdNuzWqVYTvnuk2Dsx9b - MSC 1865.62833994
13xyUnidQ1JhQk7hor17eQAPw96hwNZhHJ - MSC 1854.4081968
1roLMd1dT3Arpsq6sqjProZU7vtKL8cx1 - MSC 1832.63488609
1Na6CZdvTMzaq6f6Xn9jyEfmbf5NiEp65c - MSC 1596.95300198
1AKQX7Qso4UQeAPD7rPWnDAQr43z6eByui - MSC 1566.12276786
1AMgiLXpQ2rxtrVagtCfxjXJV44QumWNhP - MSC 1360.27369378
1589KFRBj95mUZvjoyhTDv9xp89EpHSdh8 - MSC 1335.42873676
1P2KXwVg2h4iDSqiQf4tCkSL2XEVTAyqrB - MSC 1333.40029762
1AAciKr6aNMwcYrApgAp336e8EjBwrYPWj - MSC 1320.38340067
1Q1sFqsi8S5DxV5hz6sWLamGBp9To93iG7 - MSC 1277.23987298
13NRX88EZbS5q81x6XFrTECzrciPREo821 - MSC 1254.63027669
16JbDstcRNzevcBSVu7XwUKJ3bB6btxWHh - MSC 1144.59047619
1Ki1Uxc1P1HRfk7Awq8ayZghzwGCsYWe9o - MSC 1076.8785549
15WsYinrZCiPa95JRYfzh3wu2GXopaNZWu - MSC 1030.0
Here is a CSV of each address and their balance. Seeing this overview I spotted a transaction that is being parsed wrong so that's worth something. Edit: Couldn't help myself and added the top 50 to Mastercoin-explorer. It might be a tad slow since it's not being cached and the lookup is very inefficient but it works for now. |
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Yeah looks good! |
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I don't want to express this in isolation from the fact that I love the work that Dacoinminster, you, and others are doing. It's fascinating and, I think, important. But this only makes me want to be part of it more. Now because of what's happened, I can't. And I think something ought to be done for people in my position.
You could have just asked if Coinbase would work, somebody would have been more then willing to look into that. Also I haven't heard any other reports of this issue. I am a bit annoyed that you are shifting the blame and won't take responsibility for your own errors. This is the last I will say about this since it's really not my place to 'defend' the way Mastercoin did it's fundraiser. If Coinbase will let you sign a transaction hit me up with a pm and I can probably create a raw transaction that they can sign for you that move the MSC to an other address you own. |
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I was mistaken. But I think that there was a significant lack of clarity about what would and wouldn't work. A simple list of wallets that wouldn't work would've sufficed. I spent several hours trawling this thread for clarity, but ended up being misled.
I'm sorry if I'm misinterpreting your words but; 'Being misled', you almost make it sound like you are blaming somebody else then yourself. |
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Where can I sell my two mastercoins?
For now here. In a few weeks you can use the Mastercoin protocol itself to do it. |
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You will have to get access to your private key in order for any of the other methods to work for you.
Ok, from Coinbase's perspective, they'd have to implement these transaction classes for users, because they don't give users private keys. I'll relay this to Olaf from Coinbase, who's been sympathetic, though unfortunately unable to get me out of this mess. I think we should start a thread to address this issue. It would warn people about it, and help others who, like me, are victims of the decision to only support sendmany transactions - which was not made known until after the window period to initially buy Mastercoins came to an end. To have supported this project and subsequently found that the Mastercoins I bought are locked ad infinitum is a horrible thing. Something should be done about it. Web-wallets are a bad idea; always. Coinbase is not a real wallet, it's just a service to store/spend funds. Blockchain.info at least gives you access to your private keys which means you can take your funds anywhere. There is no way to get the Mastercoin funds out of there without either a option to send multiple outputs in a transaction, getting the private key of your address or getting the public key and an option to sign a raw transaction at Coinbase. |
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You will have to get access to your private key in order for any of the other methods to work for you.
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Only Class A transactions can be created with a normal Bitcoin client for now. Class B/C will require new applications to support them.
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