Unfortunately I´m an late BTC adaptor (april 2013) and a member here since 2-3 months. I wonder, were this threads also like this 1-2 years ago? I mean, were people making threads with "will Bitcoin ever reach $10 or $100"?? I ask this because maybe we are awaiting too much grow from BTC at this point? I myself also cant imagine that 1BTC will be even worth $10.000.
Oh ya I have been bearish since 22 usd. and remain bearish BTC's valuation is totally unjustified its a tulip bubble. Please tell us when you turn bullish! The price has doubled more than 16 times, it can quite easily double a few more times. There will be so much money flowing from the stock market soon. dumb money and smart money. it will drive BTC to the moon. I was never involved for capital gain but social change when I realized that wasnt possible I abandoned it. Doubling isnt gonna happen. If you are getting in now you are a late comer. I got in at 12 usd per BTC and have bought and sold over 500 BTC. |
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Unfortunately I´m an late BTC adaptor (april 2013) and a member here since 2-3 months. I wonder, were this threads also like this 1-2 years ago? I mean, were people making threads with "will Bitcoin ever reach $10 or $100"?? I ask this because maybe we are awaiting too much grow from BTC at this point? I myself also cant imagine that 1BTC will be even worth $10.000.
Oh ya I have been bearish since 22 usd. and remain bearish BTC's valuation is totally unjustified its a tulip bubble. |
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Hard to predict BTC china opening deposits... it aint over with tough. They did it on the sly and coordinated it with the new year government action may come after the holiday.
From the head of BTC china
“We are definitely in compliance with the Dec. 5 memo, but the government and the government agencies can change the rules anytime in the future. So we are going to take a wait-and-see approach,” Lee told the WSJ. We’ve emailed him for further comment.
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bitcooin itself is already valued at $100k
its just the network and infastructure that isnt there to support it
also, probably 99% of people who heard about bitcoin doesnt realize this fact
wat? They are just saying that if it had widespread adoption the price per BTC would be 100k each... Pipe dream  |
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Some of you hodlers make bitcoin look like a ponzi scheme. Tone it down.
Yeah! Don't get excited about a technology you think might have the potential to change the world. Go sit quietly in a corner by yourself and reflect on this until you can learn to be a zombie like everyone else. Edit: Especially on a forum dedicated to discussion of said technology! It isnt that the tech. isnt valuable it is. It is that bitcoin is not valuable. The protocol is valuable but that is not proprietary. See banks and creditors dont need bitcoin they will just take the BTC off the front and put PP usd or visa usd they will adopt the tech and ditch the bitcoin itself. |
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bitcoinlitcoinbtcltc, I agree with your analysis, and I'm grateful for your service. I have confirmed you as a verified and trustworthy bad news source.
Also, please contribute to the confirmed bad news thread, so people can see all the confirmed bad news in one place. Thank you, again.
I think it will go down to around $350-400 like the last crash. Maybe even a little bit lower. Remember people, last year it crashed from 266 to 50. It went down 82%. It could go down to $150 just as easily (same percentage). because it went down EXACTLY 82% it WILL go down EXACTLY 82% from last ATH, so clearly anyone buying over (.18xATH) is doomed. also, in this scientific and prooven maths formula WILL hold true on all future price gains, forever, unchangingly. if price falls only 20%, 30% hell even 80%, we have not seen the bottem. 82% is the ticket people... even Jesus Christ told of the powers of the 82%, because he lost 82% of his weight after dying, only to return to All Time Highs in heaven (da moon) You met Jesus??? Or are you referring to a book....  I felt really bad for this lady she was so nice and was just trying to help. She really caught hell for screwing up that painting |
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... Basically real currency not this fake bitcoin shit.
Knew it! 5447 had a preexisting bias. I too have a bias, but unfortunately the p2p decentralized blockchain still trumps any rules governing a centralized alternate. Not sure what you mean I went into bitcoin with an open mind and a lot of enthusiasm. I spend 12k on a litecoin mining operation and started a business buying and selling bitcoin for paypal. I have done over 1 k transactions. I am a show me kinda person and bitcoin showed me why it wont work and what is wrong with deflationary currency |
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I don't trust anyone who turns off ratings and comments; the only people who do this realize they'd be negatively impacted if they turned them on.
He turned on the comments |
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Paul Grignon follows Peter Joseph and Jacque Fresco. Cool, I get that. The problem with TVP/TZM is busting through programmed compartmentalization inculcated into civilized society. What he is describing is what Bitcoin will evolve into one day. It's already baked into the cake. The world is not yet ready for Abundance and Gift Economy, not even close. We are only beginning the open source and crowd funding stage. The diseases of financialization and corporatism take a series of inoculations. Lets, Ripplepay, and other credit card like IOU systems like Grignon's will become available as Bitcoin powered apps.
I dont see how it is baked in with bitcoin, unless it is gonna be defined and have the hard limit removed and I dont see the Venus project or zeitgeist when I look at the concept for the coin. I see a way to force a commodity basket standard on the governments of the world and a way to have a flexible currency that will mitigate the threat of a debt based super nova. I see a way to make currency honest and backed with real productive capacity not promises from wall street or Washington. Bitcoin is emergent. It is only used as a virtual commodity in its raw form. As a protocol, it becomes a programming language for derivatives and other IOUs Powered by Bitcoincopyleft but is still using bitdust. As the popularity of these secondary transaction types grow, they will replace every financial instrument in existence. The bitdust will grow in value as these other systems are used. Who cares if these secondary financial instruments are real, productive, or even liquid? Let the market decide! Bitcoin is just the DNA. Isn't a coincidence that all life is based on just the four letters GTCA. Whatever evolves from it will only need the basic functionality already intelligently designed into the protocol. Believe me, there will be enormous beasts that evolve from this primordial ooze they keep saying is dead. Hopefully, it will eventually evolve into the best of all possible worlds. The protocol is not proprietary, they wont use bit dust they will use visa dust. What is 'visa dust?' Does Visa have a fraud resistant network? Ya they have an existing network and they could build one that works off shaw 256 hashing no problem. Visa doesnt need the bitcoin network it will just create its own network. |
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Paul Grignon follows Peter Joseph and Jacque Fresco. Cool, I get that. The problem with TVP/TZM is busting through programmed compartmentalization inculcated into civilized society. What he is describing is what Bitcoin will evolve into one day. It's already baked into the cake. The world is not yet ready for Abundance and Gift Economy, not even close. We are only beginning the open source and crowd funding stage. The diseases of financialization and corporatism take a series of inoculations. Lets, Ripplepay, and other credit card like IOU systems like Grignon's will become available as Bitcoin powered apps.
I dont see how it is baked in with bitcoin, unless it is gonna be defined and have the hard limit removed and I dont see the Venus project or zeitgeist when I look at the concept for the coin. I see a way to force a commodity basket standard on the governments of the world and a way to have a flexible currency that will mitigate the threat of a debt based super nova. I see a way to make currency honest and backed with real productive capacity not promises from wall street or Washington. Bitcoin is emergent. It is only used as a virtual commodity in its raw form. As a protocol, it becomes a programming language for derivatives and other IOUs Powered by Bitcoincopyleft but is still using bitdust. As the popularity of these secondary transaction types grow, they will replace every financial instrument in existence. The bitdust will grow in value as these other systems are used. Who cares if these secondary financial instruments are real, productive, or even liquid? Let the market decide! Bitcoin is just the DNA. Isn't a coincidence that all life is based on just the four letters GTCA. Whatever evolves from it will only need the basic functionality already intelligently designed into the protocol. Believe me, there will be enormous beasts that evolve from this primordial ooze they keep saying is dead. Hopefully, it will eventually evolve into the best of all possible worlds. The protocol is not proprietary, they wont use bit dust they will use visa dust. |
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Paul Grignon follows Peter Joseph and Jacque Fresco. Cool, I get that. The problem with TVP/TZM is busting through programmed compartmentalization inculcated into civilized society. What he is describing is what Bitcoin will evolve into one day. It's already baked into the cake. The world is not yet ready for Abundance and Gift Economy, not even close. We are only beginning the open source and crowd funding stage. The diseases of financialization and corporatism take a series of inoculations. Lets, Ripplepay, and other credit card like IOU systems like Grignon's will become available as Bitcoin powered apps.
I dont see how it is baked in with bitcoin, unless it is gonna be defined and have the hard limit removed and I dont see the Venus project or zeitgeist when I look at the concept for the coin. I see a way to force a commodity basket standard on the governments of the world and a way to have a flexible currency that will mitigate the threat of a debt based super nova. I see a way to make currency honest and backed with real productive capacity not promises from wall street or Washington. So, you "see a way to make currency honest and backed with real productive capacity", but you seem unable to calculate the current value of one BTC ( 12 million in total today) related to that RICI-system? If you want a 'controlled currency' based upon the current state of an economy then you should have means to calculate its current value! Why would anyone believe you as long as you refuse to give an answer? Do your own math. |
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To ask the question again - what stops defaults from happening in this wonderful world?
If the answer is "trust" them I'm out.
The same thing that keeps every market honest. Feedback. Only producers with verifiable credit history will be allowed to issue credit. Hows that working out with the US Govt? Doesnt seem like they are acting too responsibly to me. Government isnt a market, government is a monopoly. |
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Paul Grignon follows Peter Joseph and Jacque Fresco. Cool, I get that. The problem with TVP/TZM is busting through programmed compartmentalization inculcated into civilized society. What he is describing is what Bitcoin will evolve into one day. It's already baked into the cake. The world is not yet ready for Abundance and Gift Economy, not even close. We are only beginning the open source and crowd funding stage. The diseases of financialization and corporatism take a series of inoculations. Lets, Ripplepay, and other credit card like IOU systems like Grignon's will become available as Bitcoin powered apps.
I dont see how it is baked in with bitcoin, unless it is gonna be defined and have the hard limit removed and I dont see the Venus project or zeitgeist when I look at the concept for the coin. I see a way to force a commodity basket standard on the governments of the world and a way to have a flexible currency that will mitigate the threat of a debt based super nova. I see a way to make currency honest and backed with real productive capacity not promises from wall street or Washington. |
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Oh Satoshi please stop with the haters thing already. It's a stupid and very obvious way to try to discredit those who disagree with you, nevermind WHY they disagree. The dudes proposal doesn't make much sense to those in this thread so far, explain it better than he did or stfu.
It makes perfect sense.. It makes sense to me, I bet it makes sense to peter schiff, paul krugmon, alan greenspan, gary north, and the hundred others who have pointed out why bitcoin will never be a nations currency and isnt useful to replace government issued fiat or as the basis of an economy. Pauls concept has the power to change the world bitcoin doesnt. |
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Grignon's understanding is not very accurate: Commercial banks can not create credit money without enough base money at hand
All they have to do is satisfy reserve ratio requirements. Usually that's about 10 to 1. And most of the time they barely satisfy this requirement. When a crisis hit, they can't create credit money to buy themselves out of trouble, since most of their money is checkbook money which can not be used to create checkbook money Grignon gets it right, go read debunking economics by Steve Keen.. When you go to the bank and take out a loan the money is never there you are not borrowing other peoples savings. The money springs into existence out of thin air when you sign your name to the paper for the loan. If all debts public and private where to be paid off currency would no longer exist. Look at keens debt based modeling and learn about hyman minsky To the haters we will see. I am not saying Pauls coin but it or something like it will make bitcoin irrelevant for transactions of anything other than black market goods or payment for lap dances. |
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To ask the question again - what stops defaults from happening in this wonderful world?
If the answer is "trust" them I'm out.
The same thing that keeps every market honest. Feedback. Only producers with verifiable credit history will be allowed to issue credit. If the power company wants to issue me credits in exchange for my boat parts I think they are good for it, if they are not I will leave negative feedback. |
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Thanks. At least that one has a bit of information. Ignoring the erroneous first page, I have no idea what this has to do with Bitcoin. He wants to use call options priced in ETF shares as money? I have good news for him, he can use Ripple for that. I had the same thought. Only problem is ripple has a hard limit and doesnt have a mechanism to create new credits. |
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I don't trust anyone who turns off ratings and comments; the only people who do this realize they'd be negatively impacted if they turned them on.
I have been chatting with Paul via email. I will ask him if he will enable comments and respond to questions, but Look over the links are read over his proposal |
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I find it curious that he has comments disabled. Anyway yeah I gave up too, and I enjoyed money as debt and other similar movies. Somehow my obfuscation sense is tingling...
Well I was gonna say 9 minutes isn't long but holy crap that seemed long. Boring presentation style, boring pace, no structure, useless utterances containing practically zero information on his "well-defined solution"... and yeah, the comments are disabled because he would be called on it obviously. watch the other videos and read over this http://paulgrignon.netfirms.com/MoneyasDebt/MAD2014/solution.htm |
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