But time preference is founded upon a functioning economy. If you have a deflationary spiral, then you won't have a functioning economy, so time preference is invalid.
I'm confused how Time Preference links into the argument that I'm making that Bitcoin has a deflationary spiral built into the system.
Have you purchased a computer? Why? If you wait a year, you can buy it for cheaper. Do you buy a new cell phone ever? If so, why? You could wait a year and get a better one for the same price. Do you buy televisions ever? Why? You could wait a year and get a better one or the same one for cheaper. Someone should tell all these technology company about this deflationary spiral. No one will ever buy their products! Sony, Microsoft, LG, Vizio, Dell, etc... should all be out of business due to it. I'm gonna go short them. Have you purchased a pizza? Why? If you wait a year, you can buy it for cheaper. http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=137.0 |
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The way he talks resembles a priest lecture. Anyway, he's an idiot and has no idea what he's talking about. Just leave him be
 A l s o |
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btw, for reference, before waiting for his response and at the same time: <wultsch> nope
<mizerydearia> http://bitcoin.org, http://weusecoins.com oh... well, I guess I also submitted <mizerydearia> oh
<mizerydearia> well, you DEFINITELY should check it out
<mizerydearia> especially since you're in us
<mizerydearia> and probably use us dollar
<mizerydearia> Sorry to bother you again. Just for clarification, are you in SF or just nearby? I posted about ya at http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=6237.msg92379#msg92379 at exactly the same time too... I guess I should've waited for his response. ^_^ |
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1) bitcoin is deflationary so bitcoin's will exchange for more and more dollars as time goes on.
2) This means that bitcoins are worthless
The more that bitcoins become worth, the more the buyer of bitcoins will have to give up in order to get one.
At that point, the person thinks, fuck, I can't afford to work for bitcoins, I'll use something else (dollars, barter).
Then the guy with all the bitcoins ends up with a currency that nobody wants to buy from them. That person won't give up those bitcoins because he knows exactly what he gave up to get them too. They'll have value to the holder of the bitcoins, but not to anyone else.
Whereas with us dollar, the federal reserve company can create money out of thin air and everyone is happy? |
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I never understand this deflationary argument people give. I think it only applies to national currencies not something like bitcoin. Let me see if I have your argument straight:
1) bitcoin is deflationary so bitcoin's will exchange for more and more dollars as time goes on.
2) This means that bitcoins are worthless
huh? which is it? are they going to be worth a lot or worth a little?
It seems to me that they confused monetary goal as the end goal of human beings. But humans do not want money. They want power, love, sex, gratification, understanding, and so on. Money helps achieve these things. jed and kiba's responses were in response to fsargent I believe... /me awaits fsargent's response |
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Disclaimer:BTW! Noisebridge is very happy to welcome anyone through its doors! This IRC conversation is a bad representation of noisebridge as a whole, especially considering we have plenty of trolls on IRC (oh internet!). Please come check out Noisebridge if you're ever in San Francisco. https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Noisebridge We're a really nice group of people, and we'd love to discuss Bitcoin or any other things you find interesting. I can't guarantee that everyone will enjoy the subject, or agree with its viability, but it's a wonderful place to find like minds. From #noisebridge on Freenode IRC Network - Noisebridge<KipMacy> torture is fine. child trafficking is great. i really hate bitcoins
<tecra> dude bitcoin is a fail
<fsargent> I already saw the 5mof on Bitcoin
<mizerydearia> KipMacy, Why do you really hate bitcoins?
<mizerydearia> tecra, How is it fail?
<tecra> and im kinda optimistic about that
<fsargent> mizerydearia: I will break this down for you
<fsargent> Bitcoin is fail because it's a limited system.
<fsargent> It's a terrible form of currency.
<fsargent> All you do is make numbers, not 'value'
<tecra> sweet break down
<fsargent> there's no medium of exchange between the real world and bitcoins
<fsargent> Bitcoins also have no method of redistribution, the entire economy will divert to one holder
<fsargent> there's no federal reserve
<fsargent> decentralized economies /don't work/
<fsargent> **** Currencies
<fsargent> Look at WoW Gold
<tecra> chuckee cheese tokens
<tecra> its worthless
<tecra> you would be a tard to take real money and put it into bitcoins
<e> mizerydearia - how does it feel to be evangelizing for your pagan idol on Good Friday, hmm??
<fsargent> mizerydearia: just read the thing on greater fool theory
<tecra> he i have shitcoins will u buy em?
<fsargent> You know why I believe in greenbacks?
<fsargent> Because they are backed by congress
<fsargent> you know what congress has?
<tecra> u shoudnt
<fsargent> a fucking army.
<tecra> dollar will have no value very soon
<kelp> so they can force people to accept them?
<KipMacy> it is true, currency needs a threat of immediate violence behind it to be worth anything
<fsargent> tecra: the dollar has plenty of value, just as long as they increase the debt ceiling
<fsargent> KipMacy: naahhh not the IMMEDIATE threat
<tecra> fsargent: you know what supply and demand is?
<fsargent> But I mean that they have the ability to create 'stability'
<fsargent> tecra: I'm an economics major For some reason, a mod decided to split this thread. See http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=6317.0
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<mizerydearia> Hiya. Are you in or nearby San Francisco? <wultsch> yes <mizerydearia> Yay! <mizerydearia> Also, are you a bitcoin user? <wultsch> I have no idea what that is <mizerydearia> ooh, interesting... <mizerydearia> Well, I found you from a map of bitcoin users. <mizerydearia> Wanna check it out? <wultsch> nope <mizerydearia> http://bitcoin.org, http://weusecoins.com<wultsch> I have enough on my plate as is <mizerydearia> oh <mizerydearia> well, you DEFINITELY should check it out <mizerydearia> especially since you're in us <mizerydearia> and probably use us dollar <mizerydearia> Sorry to bother you again. Just for clarification, are you in SF or just nearby? I posted about ya at http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=6237.msg92379#msg92379<wultsch> please remove me from this. <mizerydearia> mm, maybe to interest ya, I'll give ya 2 bitcoins (1 bitcoin currently worth about us$1.50) if you check it out! ^_^ <wultsch> please remove me. I have no interest |
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I might be able to make it. Woo! How about instead of a micro-convention, a micro-party? Do you know any other Bitcoiners in the area that may be interested in a meet up? |
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I think something like this needs to happen somewhere in the Central US, so that way more people from each coast can make it. But of course if we could get some of the developers of Bitcoin, and some of the pool owners to make it, and some of the programmers, perhaps we could get an actual Bitcoin Developers Conference going (BDC)
Central US just means it's going to be inconvienient for people from BOTH coasts. Just have 2 separate cons. In the us I suggest at least three locations for conventions/conferences: New York City, Chicago and San Francisco or Los Angeles I am in Ann Arbor, MI, and if people express interest, we could try to match a convention with the one in San Francisco, or have our own.
I'm in Milwaukee, WI, so I could probably attend an event in Illinois (Chicago or Rosemont (where Anime Central is held)) |
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Does anyone live in or nearby San Francisco and is up for idea of a Bitcoin micro-partyconvention for a day; April 30th, 2011? I'm visiting SFBA April 29th-May 3rd.01001110 01101111 01101001 01110011 01100101 01100010 01110010 01101001 01100100 01100111 01100101 00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01100001 00100000 01110011 01110000 01100001 01100011 01100101 00100000 01101111 01110000 01100101 01101110 00100000 01110100 01101111 00100000 01100001 01101110 01111001 01101111 01101110 01100101 00100000 01101001 01101110 01110100 01100101 01110010 01100101 01110011 01110100 01100101 01100100 00100000 01101001 01101110 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01100011 01110010 01100101 01100001 01110100 01101001 01110110 01100101 00100000 01110101 01110011 01100101 01110011 00100000 01101111 01100110 00100000 01110100 01100101 01100011 01101000 01101110 01101111 01101100 01101111 01100111 01111001 00101110 00100000 01011001 01101111 01110101 00100000 01100001 01101110 01100100 00100000 01100001 01101110 01111001 01101111 01101110 01100101 00100000 01100101 01101100 01110011 01100101 00100000 01100001 01110010 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01101111 01101101 01100101 01110100 01101000 01101001 01101110 01100111 00100000 01101110 01100101 01100101 01100100 01110011 00100000 01101001 01101101 01110000 01110010 01101111 01110110 01101001 01101110 01100111 00100000 01101111 01110010 00100000 01100110 01101001 01111000 01101001 01101110 01100111 00101100 00100000 01100110 01100101 01100101 01101100 00100000 01100110 01110010 01100101 01100101 00100000 01110100 01101111 00100000 01100111 01101111 00100000 01100001 01101000 01100101 01100001 01100100 00100000 01100001 01101110 01100100 00100000 01100100 01101111 00100000 01101001 01110100 00101110   2169 Mission St San Francisco, California 94110 (415) 738-2341 Subway: 16th St. Mission BART Saturday, April 30th: 10am - 5pm (Seem okay? Anyone available at other times? If so, reply)  Suggestions of things to do: - Discuss Bitcoin
- Discuss Bitcoin projects
- Discuss Carrot
- Eat bitcoin cookies
- Eat carrot cake
- Eat pasta salad
- Send bitcoins to each other
- Socialize
If you are attending, please bring some kind of food or snack, and especially liquids/drinks as none will be supplied by me. Not even for myself. I want your drinks! Try to keep the foods and snacks bitcoin or carrot-related. Here's some info I've gathered regarding Bitcoiners in and nearby San Francisco area: San Francisco: DavidSJ: bitcoin forum, Freenode fosmitch23: bitcoin forumkelp: bitcoin forum, Freenode margarette: bitcoin forumAlbany: cuddlefish: bitcoin forum, Freenode Berkeley: ahbritto: Freenode Freemont: JSharp: Freenode San Jose: jsidhu: bitcoin forum, Freenode Santa Cruz: EPiSKiNG: bitcoin forum, Freenode Somewhere nearby: FreeMoney: bitcoin forumsc8nt4u: bitcoin forumSyke: bitcoin forum, Freenode vmsalas: Freenode zaery: bitcoin forum, Freenode Possibly in or nearby SF, still researching: abcgoat: Freenode agaumoney: bitcoin forumAn0n: Freenode anmouse: Freenode avandever: Freenode cardona507: Freenode deepthawtz: Freenode dkim_icecreamboy: Freenode dprotaso: Freenode ejholmes: Freenode eletuchy: Freenode elg: Freenode falsifian: bitcoin forumFannyMae: Freenode fmoo: Freenode hfisk: Freenode hryx: Freenode jgreene: Freenode jimbob007: Freenode jungejason: Freenode KarthikR: Freenode liyintang: Freenode MarkDude: Freenode mndrix: bitcoin forummisreckoning: Freenode npa100: Freenode omry: Freenode rokh: Freenode Silverpike: Freenode SykeP: Freenode teffer: Freenode xjin: Freenode [ZaEarl]: Freenode |
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How about using the entire system as the base database for dns?
To get domains(including subdomains) miners need a block, each block yields 50 domains.
Have no increase in difficulty at all such that getting a block requires... something like a days work for a GPU. If someone wants more than 50 domains in a day then they need to put more miners to work. This way there is no arbitrary limit on the number of domains created per day, the only limit being CPU power, which costs money(this will prevent too much domain squating.
Also domains have an expiry of something like 100 blocks, so in order to keep ownership of a domain the owner must continue mining, such that I don't know, a decent gpu can hold onto 10,000 domains(more?less?).
Transactions being 2 things, first transfering the ownership of a domain, second, adding an IP to a domain. This way dns servers can use the block chain as the domain db.
Finally have the entire blockchain re-written every 100 blocks or something(I don't know that this is even possible). As we don't need to know the entire transaction history of every domain so every 100 blocks or so we throw away all the transaction records and just keep a record of who owns what domain associated with which ip address. Hopefully that would keep the block chain at manageable levels.
You could also increase the level of work required to aquire a specific domain, such that shorter domains require more work, longer domains require less work. But I don't know how you would implement this in the above. Or at all
This does not tie into the current bitcoin blockchain at all (and it should't anyway).
This seems like a LOT of unnecessary power consumption costs |
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If anyone is interested in discussing and participating with establishing idea for a kind of open source bitcoin merchandising operation/business/project, come to #bitcoin-merch and I will begin discussing it soon.
Idea: I'd like to establish a collective bitcoin merchandising operation in which anyone anywhere can sell and distributing merchandise (kind of like a franchise) in which the bitcoin merchandise is managed/organized collectively and made available for sale throughout the world. Particularly of interest is a way for artists/designers to also profit from their designs on merchandise.
I'd like to establish it in an open source fashion.
For example what I, or anyone else, can do is figure out best methods of merchandise production with various imagery/designs/etc and to make them available for sale to anyone interested in buying them.
Additionally, anyone can participate in bulk ordering and warehousing (even in their own home or whatever) to help distribute products.
"In the case of alibaba merchants requiring minimum quantity for bulk orders, and oftentimes it being much cheaper to buy in bulk as well as shipping in bulk, in a kind of distributed community effort, a network of peers can help to provide a worldwide distribution of merchandise."
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A few more quotes from about four hours ago: <Randall> We don't have donations of any kind, actually. I mean, there are prints you can buy, and you can pay more if you want. <Randall> I only learned about bitcoins a month or so ago. <Randall> I don't solicit donations on my website, and I have avoided soliciting donations through various systems where I hadn't decided to actively promote those systems (i.e. flattr and bitcoin). <Randall> Like, a lot of people contact me and are like "can you sign up for $PROJECT and we'll get a button on your page and people can donate to you!" and I feel like the main effect of my doing that would be promoting $PROJECT. <Randall> Which isn't really something I do on solicitation, if only because the moment I did, I'd be flooded with more solicitations. <Randall> And email is hard  <Randall> here's how far I'll go: if anyone types this URL, they can see a black hole into which they can deposit bitcoins: http://xkcd.com/bitcoin/<Randall> it'll be interesting to see if anyone stumbles on it. <Randall> I am probably legally obligated to let you know that I am not a charity and will probably be spending the money on extremely unwise things (i.e. gin) <Randall> Hooray! I have some bitcoins now. <ThomasV_> if you can convince some gin seller to accept bitcoins without converting them to usd, you'll be a hero <Randall> and then the bitcoin community will collapse into drunken brawls Also, thanks to cuddlefish for mentioning the XKCD mining pool, which led to Randall setting up the very simplistic webpage. <Randall> it'll be interesting to see if anyone stumbles on it. Let's contniue to show our support and help to express our appreciation for Randall's amazingly amazing comics and help to convince him to better adopt Bitcoin! |
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