I supposed if BTC value increased significantly more that would change, but in that case you would still be better of just holding the BTC than buying the eruptors.
You are probably right. Not going to argue the point. Either way, I'm having fun  I have an interesting question for you: We know the price of BTC was ~$6.50-7.00 on July 1, 2012 and that a 1.5TH mini-rig was selling for $29,899. Let's call the BTC price at $6.50, which would be ~4600 BTC. Your choices are to either Buy a mini-rig and wait for it to ship a year later or store your 4600 BTC until June 2013 when you can buy 2300 USB block erupters. We know now the mini-rig order would ship on Aug 5th and the 2300 Block Erupters would be in hand within a week. If these were your only choices, which do you feel is the better value? The first hind sight logic i've ever seen from bcp19... oh wait.... It's a very simple question, can't you answer it? We already know all the answers, so which do you feel was the better value? |
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The "I paid BTC to mine BTC" will never get their BTC investment back on well over 75% of items ordered and not received at this point in time with the other 25% looking shakier by the day and never on the current in-stock USB ripoffs. The people who understand BTC = USD and varies with time will understand that yes, with patience they will eventually have a positive RoI in USD spent vs USD received.
Then why bother mining? Just buy BTC and you'll make a better profit holding it than mining. Considering exchange rates is just a way to hide from the actual negative ROI. Paying $1000 (10btc @ $100) to mine $1500 (7.5btc @ $200) is a bad deal. You have a false $500 profit. Let's look at buying BTC instead: Buy 10btc @ $100, wait till the exchange rate goes to $200, you now have $2000. You have a true $1000 profit. The only positive ROI for a miner is more BTC generated than it cost to purchase it. Apples to apples. BTC in vs BTC out. I have just 1 simple question for you... can you show me proof that the BTC you had on Jun 23, 2012 and the subsequent BTC you earned from then until now was never spent on anything? If so, I will accept your argument about buying BTC. |
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I supposed if BTC value increased significantly more that would change, but in that case you would still be better of just holding the BTC than buying the eruptors.
You are probably right. Not going to argue the point. Either way, I'm having fun I have an interesting question for you: We know the price of BTC was ~$6.50-7.00 on July 1, 2012 and that a 1.5TH mini-rig was selling for $29,899. Let's call the BTC price at $6.50, which would be ~4600 BTC. Your choices are to either Buy a mini-rig and wait for it to ship a year later or store your 4600 BTC until June 2013 when you can buy 2300 USB block erupters. We know now the mini-rig order would ship on Aug 5th and the 2300 Block Erupters would be in hand within a week. If these were your only choices, which do you feel is the better value? |
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@BCP19
SO how much do BFL pay you to troll? Or are you actually an emplyee (as i suspect)?
Seriously dude, Your a troll or you seriously need to read the facts about BFL and wake the F**K UP!
BFL is run by convicted criminals, As committed COUNTLESS acts of crimes here, on there forum and directly to customers there selves, Lied consistently for over 12 months now and still cannot deliver on broken promises & not only that, Pisses on everyone who ordered singles/MR's from a great height by not actually building any and completing peoples orders that ARE OVER 6 MONTHS DOWN THE LINE OF THE ORIGINAL INVESTORS!
I could go on but i believe your a shill so whats the point, Some people don't have the brain capacity to figure things out for themselves and will always be sheep!
1) I am receiving no pay or other form of remuneration for anything I post on here, everything is my own personal opinion. 2) If you don't believe me, I'd suggest you ask PG. He and I had a very pleasant 30 minute conversation last week. I explained to him my position, and while we don't agree, we pretty much agreed to disagree which is why he and I not longer butt heads on here. 3) You are entitled to your opinions and I am entitles to mine. NEITHER of us have absolute facts, we are BOTH basically guessing using the available facts. If you are unable to accept that, please feel free to click that little button over there (<----) that says ignore. have a nice day. haha, You sound a lot like josh, Are you his best butt buddy? Seriously dude, Anyone supporting/backing BFL after all the evidence is either a shill or just plain dumb! Which are you? Even IF BFL went out with all good intentions, They have not only pissed off 80%+ of there customers but broken countless laws along the way! HOW CAN YOU DEFEND CONVICTED CRIMINALS and think your going get taken seriously! I wish it wasn't so (i currently got fulfilled on my order but NOTHING!) but the fact is they are pulling all the classic tricks and they know any legal action will take Months, if not years to even get to court. CONVICTED CRIMINALS know the legal system pretty well, Better than Joe Public most of the time! I seen your posts on Buttfucker labs and have a right good laugh to them. I read what people write and can't believe how greed/Counterintelligence/Blindness makes some people on there keep kicking the can down that lonely ally! Wake up dude if your not a shill and realise EVERYTHING BFL as done is classic maneuvers of A HUGE SCAM using all the known tactics to best effect it seems! Weather it be selective scamming, Bait and switch like the mortgage industry or any other, BFL have pulled it off! How you like the photoshop pic of the monarch? Did you upgrade/buy? Is that why your blindly supporting what is hurting the bitcoin community? Im not going waste my time on you, Some people cant see the wood for the trees.... PG has already attested to the fact that I am not Josh. If you don't respect him enough to accept his verification, I feel sad for you. If you read as many of my posts as you claim to, you'd already know the answer to your question... I purchased (1) Jalapeno on June 5th, 2013. Having read through a fair share of the BFL hate threads and all of the FPGA threads, I see a pattern. During the FPGA shipping a lot of people were also calling them a huge scam and how their CEO was a criminal and etc, etc. The fact of the matter is they shipped all of their FPGA orders that were not cancelled or upgraded to ASICs. Once again, you have you opinion as to teh facts and I have mine. Your decent into vulgar language only proves to me that your ignoring me and leaving me in peace will make both of us happy. You are more than welcome to click that button now. |
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I am offering my BFL 60 GH/s miner (SGL600G) for sale. It is marked number 000656 received it Aug 22, 2013 and as of today Aug 28 has earned me 2.5 BTC. It generates about .5 BTC every 26 hours. I ordered it on June 29 2012 and as far as I know they have shipped units ordered up to July 15, 2012. I'm asking $6000.00 CAD bank or wire transfer, local pickup or 10% discount using BTC. I am accepting offers but am torn between selling it and keeping it. It's a great unit and I have another coming shortly. It is loud (i.e. hair dryer on low). I have taken exceptional care with it running it in a cool place. The unit reports 60 deg C. I can take photos or video of the unit and the performance numbers on screen as verification. I will ship it immediately and send photos and tracking information. I understand that BFL offers a one year warranty even if sold to another person but I can't confirm this. There is a defect with the power supply where a volt 110/220 switch is pushed back into the unit but it still functions. If you are interested or have questions please email me. See: http://subjectreality.com/miner/Hhaha I thought they were shipping 400 units a day? Such a pack of liars. If your ID is 656.. lol You expect them to ship that many from each product line each day? 400 Jalapenos wouldn't be hard... 400 mini-rigs would be virtually impossible, unless they had the same number of employees as a company like Intel. |
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Moderate nothing. Let the ignore button do it's job.
Make a new sub-forum for each of the major manufacturers and 1 more for any new entrants to the bitcoin mining marketspace. They can be promoted to their own new sub-forum if they make it bigger and appear not to be a scam. +1. -1 It's not the forum mods' job to legitimise one manufacturer over another by giving them their own subforum. It is for the fabricators to legitimise themselves and to band together to agree on standards and promote the industry to everyone in the community in a POSITIVE manner. Have a Custom Hardware Association subforum that is moderated by members and users. All agree to set standards to post and publish in the subforum. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=282030.0 That way the Association and Users are all responsible for the upkeep of the subforum based on a clear set ethical standards for businesses selling mining rigs, chips or diy projects. If you don't want to join (agree to the standards as a fabricator) you can still PAY the FORUM to advertise. That way it is free to advertize but you need to accept the standards before you can POST to the subforum. If you do not comply with the standards you are banned from posting in that subform and your posts are locked and moved elsewhere. While this is an excellent idea in theory, I honestly doubt it would work in practice. There is already too much hate and animosity and finding neutral people to police something like this would be virtually impossible. I fear something like this would just lead to the moderators eventually being called shills or sock-puppets of whatever companies were allowed in to post. |
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@BCP19
SO how much do BFL pay you to troll? Or are you actually an emplyee (as i suspect)?
Seriously dude, Your a troll or you seriously need to read the facts about BFL and wake the F**K UP!
BFL is run by convicted criminals, As committed COUNTLESS acts of crimes here, on there forum and directly to customers there selves, Lied consistently for over 12 months now and still cannot deliver on broken promises & not only that, Pisses on everyone who ordered singles/MR's from a great height by not actually building any and completing peoples orders that ARE OVER 6 MONTHS DOWN THE LINE OF THE ORIGINAL INVESTORS!
I could go on but i believe your a shill so whats the point, Some people don't have the brain capacity to figure things out for themselves and will always be sheep!
1) I am receiving no pay or other form of remuneration for anything I post on here, everything is my own personal opinion. 2) If you don't believe me, I'd suggest you ask PG. He and I had a very pleasant 30 minute conversation last week. I explained to him my position, and while we don't agree, we pretty much agreed to disagree which is why he and I not longer butt heads on here. 3) You are entitled to your opinions and I am entitles to mine. NEITHER of us have absolute facts, we are BOTH basically guessing using the available facts. If you are unable to accept that, please feel free to click that little button over there (<----) that says ignore. have a nice day. |
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resellers still appear to have the old non-roi price. lame.
Friedcat just fucked his re-sellers. I don't actually mind. Good job FriedCat. This is at least the 2nd time from what I've read. At least the guy who bought USB in bulk at .31 could at least break even or get a miniscule profit though. |
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bcp19, My fellow shill in arms. I have to pat you on the back for doing all this effort to date. Now is the time for you to retire to BFL headquarters. They need you there to put away some dishes and dirty towels.
Don't worry, I will take over your hard job from this point on.
========================[Puts on Master SHILL Hat]=================
@ Detractors
I agree with everything you say, except, in cases where you say BFL is the shit! (read into that as you will!)
I understand your meaning, but I don't even have a BFL hat on at the moment. Everyone is so blinded by BFL hate they cannot see the big picture. While I predicted today to be up close to 1PH network speed, I'm really not off by much(Since the network was less than 150TH when I predicted it). My 7PH prediction by Nov 1 is looking a bit shaky as more and more companies delay. When the logic states that it is criminal for BFL to sell so much product that their customers cannot make a positive RoI in 90 days(read fucked them), where does that leave us today? NO company can guarantee a positive RoI in 90 days, yet ONLY BFL is fucking customers. By this logic alone ASICMiner has fucked his customers since June cause those USB's will never earn positive RoI. How many USB's you got Xian??? Since my GPU running ~300MH is getting .0023 daily I'd say yours are getting .0026 a day each maximum. 40 would be ~.104 per day, so your 'every couple hours' means you have like 320-500 of them. I am confused over the .1 pricing though, last I checked they were at ~.35. Your estimations aren't realistic. You need to undershoot so that your estimates fall in line with reality. What if everyone over-estimated? You'd have a lot less unhappy people right now cause life would be better than they dreamed it would be. If you overestimated then you would be wrong (as you are now) and everyone will have a positive outlook. If you underestimate, and you are right, then everyone in the present will see this as a baseline for what is to come. Just make sure to create a *very reasonable* baseline. Truer words are seldom spoken. The unfortunate reality though is that most poeple understimate and are wrong, which is why the current insane growth = panic. I'd rather paint a dreary picture of the future and be pleasantly suprised when it does not happen, then paint a rosy picture and end up feeling like the stock market just crashed and I'm standing on top of a building. |
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These new blades are available to be shipped world wide from https://2asic.com. We have also compensated customers who have purchased blades for the decrease in price! All - make sure to report posts like this to the mods... bottom right of the message "Report to Moderator"... This is actually a very good deal from ASICMiner, I am impressed. Even at today's difficulty and insane growth these look to be at positive RoI in just 52 days. Even if you use 150% monthly difficulty increases (65-164-411-etc) it hits RoI in under 70 days, and at 200% it's still in 90 days. This is actually a product I'd buy if I had the money to get 20. |
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Wow, how quickly things change in Bitcoinland!!
The price of Block Erupter Blades has been dramatically reduced, and are now available for only $899 CAD! Thanks to friedcat for greatly expanding the supply and lowering the price on this hardware.
All customers who have purchased block erupters through 2asic.com have been compensated for the difference.
Happy now???!!!!
If you look at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270573.0 you will see the USB are selling for .35 in large quantity amd .399 for 1. That indicates your pricing on them is at least 20% higher then could be gotten there. In both places they are listed as "IN stock", so if I were foolish enough to buy one, it'd be from them. |
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bcp19, My fellow shill in arms. I have to pat you on the back for doing all this effort to date. Now is the time for you to retire to BFL headquarters. They need you there to put away some dishes and dirty towels.
Don't worry, I will take over your hard job from this point on.
========================[Puts on Master SHILL Hat]=================
@ Detractors
I agree with everything you say, except, in cases where you say BFL is the shit! (read into that as you will!)
I understand your meaning, but I don't even have a BFL hat on at the moment. Everyone is so blinded by BFL hate they cannot see the big picture. While I predicted today to be up close to 1PH network speed, I'm really not off by much(Since the network was less than 150TH when I predicted it). My 7PH prediction by Nov 1 is looking a bit shaky as more and more companies delay. When the logic states that it is criminal for BFL to sell so much product that their customers cannot make a positive RoI in 90 days(read fucked them), where does that leave us today? NO company can guarantee a positive RoI in 90 days, yet ONLY BFL is fucking customers. By this logic alone ASICMiner has fucked his customers since June cause those USB's will never earn positive RoI. How many USB's you got Xian??? Since my GPU running ~300MH is getting .0023 daily I'd say yours are getting .0026 a day each maximum. 40 would be ~.104 per day, so your 'every couple hours' means you have like 320-500 of them. I am confused over the .1 pricing though, last I checked they were at ~.35. Your estimations aren't realistic. You need to undershoot so that your estimates fall in line with reality. What if everyone over-estimated? You'd have a lot less unhappy people right now cause life would be better than they dreamed it would be. |
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After finding this nifty site: http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/ and checking out lots of ASICS, it looks if you buy now, wait for delivery, nothing will make it's ROI. Of course I subscribe to the idea that you are better off just buying the Bitcoins now versus investing into an ASIC. However, I already have Bitcoins (bought long, long, long ago) and I'm relatively Fiat Broke, so if I were to go an ASIC route, I would be spending Bitcoins anyway. I have held off till now because it seems like it's a smarter idea to wait for when ASICS can be purchased and delivered via 2 day shipping. Meaning, I can pretty much know what the difficulty will be when I receive my machine. At this point, even the conservative estimates make it look like top of the line miners won't arrive in time to pay for themselves. What are others thinking? Depends on which crowd you're hanging with. The "I paid BTC to mine BTC" will never get their BTC investment back on well over 75% of items ordered and not received at this point in time with the other 25% looking shakier by the day and never on the current in-stock USB ripoffs. The people who understand BTC = USD and varies with time will understand that yes, with patience they will eventually have a positive RoI in USD spent vs USD received. Now, the people from the former group I just mentioned will argue that you should just BUY BTC and sit on it. That's all well and good for the 10% or so of the populace with the wherewithal to atually do that, but I doubt the majority could handle it. |
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I am confused
This is why many people have you on ignore. Am I supposed to care? You ducked the question... how did you get .1 BTC erupters? |
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Watch out, you really can have an ISP pull the plug on your account.
Having consulted a lawyer, I truly hope he goes that route. I already have a countersuit ready for his threat, and if he gets my internet access taken down then I have a suit ready for either him or my ISP. My ISP if they are too dumb and act on information from a random stranger without getting his personel information, and against him if he does provide that information. Unlike his spurius libel claim, I *will* have a monetary impact if he gets my internet turned off. Up until he presents his case in a court of law and gets a favorable ruling, any action by hm against me is actionable. I understand your sentiments. But shutting down a persons account is very easy...dangerously so...and legally. There are so many spurious terms of agreement that you two have with your ISP, that if he proves you were at a certain location and posted a certain thing, that may or may not be enough to get your account terminated at the ISP. I know this because I have seen grown babies (manchilds) do this to one another when they get a little too stupid for words. Then they turn to the FBI to have each other investigated like idiots. You'd probably think that people in high authority in the US government and the Armed Forces are different than you average folk. Lets just say, the only difference is their ability to use English properly. Some of the nasty ones even turned to department heads at AFOSI and DIA (and/or the FBI) to have them frivolously investigated. -------------------- Point being, watch out. (to both of you) You are quite correct. That word may be one of the watchwords for the NSA and their electronic surveillance. Maybe they have already sent both mine and his information to the FBI for further investigation. I personally welcome it, I have nothing to hide. It doesn't work that way. Unless you use a ton of keywords like Al Queda, Obama, etc. You are probably thinking of context sensitive crawlers and flagging. In which case you'd probably have to write it out in a different language if you want to draw any attention. If you threaten to blow up the white house (or harm the president), the FBI is obligated to investigate such occurrences. (Yes, they actually send someone...well if you report it at least.) ========================= http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/nsa-top-secret-program-online-dataThats just one tool that is recently become public. The tool allows someone to type in a web address such as: www.butterflylabs.com and it will give an analyst access to the IP's that have visited that site. Or you could type in your IP and a few keywords and bring up your online browsing history. Google History: https://accounts.google.com/Login?service=histYou can wipe your history off the public servers but retention means it is available for a long, long time. Dont bother with that guy as he is broken...... You still sound depressed! Have you seen a doctor yet? Have a nice day! |
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BFL Fanbois: *Consider yourself in Contempt!* Camp Lugan: *Josh Zerlan, did BFL submit their product line to the FCC?* BFL Fanfois: BFL's miner don't need to be FCC certified! Don't answer the question, Josh. It's a trap! Josh Zerlan: I'll answer the question! [to Phinnaeus Gage] Josh Zerlan: You want answers? Phinnaeus Gage: I think us monumental assholes are entitled to. Josh Zerlan: *You want answers?* Phinnaeus Gage: *We want the truth!* Josh Zerlan: *You can't handle the truth!* [pauses, to wipe the jeez from his chin] Josh Zerlan: Sonny lived in a room that had walls, and one of those walls had bars guarded by men with guns. Who else has been there? You? You, PL? You, K9? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for those who've ordered or yet to order, and you curse BF Labs Inc. You have that luxury here on BitcoinTalk. You have the luxury of not blowing what I blow. Those that ordered, while tragic, probably would have wasted their disposable income on some useless product or service. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, directs that money to Butterfly Labs. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about in your panties, you want me to con moneys from them fools, you need me to con moneys from them fools. We use words like "in two weeks", "making hardware is hard", "we never lie". We use these words as the backbone of BF Labs Inc. You use them as a punchline. We have neither the time nor the inclination to explain ourselves to monumental assholes who rises and sleeps under the blanket of BFL trying to protect the Bitcoin network, and then questions the manner in which we try to do such. We would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a phone and call the FCC, the FTC, the FBI, the IRS, the CIA... Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to. Phinnaeus Gage: Josh Zerlan, did BFL submit their product line to the FCC?* Josh Zerlan: I said what I was paid for to say, I... Phinnaeus Gage: *Josh Zerlan, did BFL submit the screen to the FCC?*Josh Zerlan: *You're Goddamn right they did!* *Provides link.* https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=132722&fcc_id='MSQME370T' ... Josh Zerlan: [contemptuously] You monumental assholes... you have no idea how to build ASIC-based miners. All you did was weaken a company today, Phinn. That's all you did. You put our profits in danger. Sweet dreams, sonny. Phinnaeus Gage: Don't call me Sonny. I'm a hero member of BitcoinTalk with the highest post count, and you're a son of a bitch with jeez on your chin. You've been served! Edited for accuracy. |
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bcp19, My fellow shill in arms. I have to pat you on the back for doing all this effort to date. Now is the time for you to retire to BFL headquarters. They need you there to put away some dishes and dirty towels.
Don't worry, I will take over your hard job from this point on.
========================[Puts on Master SHILL Hat]=================
@ Detractors
I agree with everything you say, except, in cases where you say BFL is the shit! (read into that as you will!)
I understand your meaning, but I don't even have a BFL hat on at the moment. Everyone is so blinded by BFL hate they cannot see the big picture. While I predicted today to be up close to 1PH network speed, I'm really not off by much(Since the network was less than 150TH when I predicted it). My 7PH prediction by Nov 1 is looking a bit shaky as more and more companies delay. When the logic states that it is criminal for BFL to sell so much product that their customers cannot make a positive RoI in 90 days(read fucked them), where does that leave us today? NO company can guarantee a positive RoI in 90 days, yet ONLY BFL is fucking customers. By this logic alone ASICMiner has fucked his customers since June cause those USB's will never earn positive RoI. How many USB's you got Xian??? Since my GPU running ~300MH is getting .0023 daily I'd say yours are getting .0026 a day each maximum. 40 would be ~.104 per day, so your 'every couple hours' means you have like 320-500 of them. I am confused over the .1 pricing though, last I checked they were at ~.35. |
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YOU said ASICMiner customers deserved to get fucked for not doing their research, yet BFL customers DON'T deserved to get fucked for their short-sightedness. YOU are the one calling it both ways. I am not defending either side, I am just trying to get you to stop contradicting yourself.
All I said about ASICMiner was this: At least with the block erupters people know what the hashrate and difficulty growth will look like when they get them, since they'll be getting them right away. A lot of people buy them just for fun.
That's it. You're lying when you say otherwise. You really are starting to come across like a raving lunatic. And you've never explained why you're so invested in defending a company that you agree is fucking their own customers. It's like you're just angry about the fact that people are upset that a company is fucking their own customers. It's totally bizzare. Your problem is you are stuck on BFL and refuse to open your eyes to the bigger picture. By your own admission, BFL taking orders from customers that will kill BTC profitability is fucking their customers. USING THIS SAME LOGIC OF YOURS, every company today that cannot put a product in hand in the next 2 weeks IS DOING THE EXACT SAME THING. But you cannot believe this, you are stuck on BFL hate and cannot see the forest for the trees. Your 'people know what the hashrate and difficulty growth will look like when they get them' makes me laugh. June 01 2013: BTC = ~$125 Network Hash = ~100TH Difficulty = ~13M estimated growth rate = 28% per month. Using these figures, Difficulty should be 27 million today. That fantastic USB that sold for 2BTC would be sitting at -45% RoI having only made a whopping 1.1BTC and after 12 months, you have 1.66BTC and earning .02BTC monthly with a 200 million difficulty.. But here was are today... Difficulty is already 65.7 million and climbing fast. That's an average 72% monthly increase and that 1.1BTC is in reality down to .81BTC and the 12 month outlook is .91 BTC. BUT!!! They knew what they were getting into. |
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They shipped Jala's for almost 2 months before shipping other stuff. You feel they should have just sat on the Jala product they could ship?
That's what they promised, so yes, they should have sat on them. Don't promise what you won't deliver. In fact, they're still promising it, and they're still not doing it. LIES. Remind me NEVER to do business with you. Screw ALL the customers to satisfy a few. |
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We can argue semantic all day. Let's get back to the meat of it:
1) Jun 2013. ASICMiner opens sales of USB sticks at 2BTC. as just stated above $1M and assrape.
2) Jun 2012. BFL starts taking orders and quickly has so many that only the 1st week of them will profit AT CURRENT BTC RATES.
Which is the worst company attitude? Unintentionally screwing your customers cause their greed will kill the BTC profitability or ass-raping your customers?
There is nothing unintentional about what you described. You just keep saying BFL customers deserved to get fucked because they were greedy and stupid. And like I said. That's not a defense of BFL. You're just telling everyone they should never do business with you, since you think there's nothing wrong with fucking your customers. YOU said ASICMiner customers deserved to get fucked for not doing their research, yet BFL customers DON'T deserved to get fucked for their short-sightedness. YOU are the one calling it both ways. I am not defending either side, I am just trying to get you to stop contradicting yourself. |
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