4 20 amp 117 circuits fed from a single 40 amp 234 circuit WILL NOT cause your breaker for the 40 amp circuit to trip at 50% power draw, unless you don't wire the 117 circuits correctly in the secondary panel.
The way the panel is set up, 2 of those 117 circuits end up IN SERIES with the other 2 (with the neutral transferring any imbalance back to the pole transformer) IF you wire the thing up correctly, 2 breakers on each "side".
For reference, common 234 volt service in the US (and Canada) is set up as "split phase", more widely known as a "center tapped" arrangement.
Half of the 117 circuits are set up to be on one side of the "neutral" center tap, the other half on the other side, with the WHOLE of each side being in series with the WHOLE of the other side, optimally keeping the draw on each side balanced or nearly so to reduce the current on the neutral feed line.
THEREFORE, you can pull *TWICE THE AMPERAGE* at 117 as your 234 feed provides, as half that amperage is in series with the other half.
This is not theory, this is a union-trained electrician and a VERY long time electronic tech explaining FACTS.
Why did my 100A panel trip with only 8 * 15a circuits then? 4 were on left leg and 4 on right leg. Draw was around 50A on each side, more like 45/55A measured with clamp. However this is the bit i wasn't certain about. You seem to be saying i could have used 160A @ 120V on a 100A panel as long as i balanced each side properly? |
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What are you even arguing. On a 200A panel. If you're using 120V, you can use 120V * 200A. If you're using 240V, you can use 240V * 200A. The Amp limit doesn't change, but the wattage does. You can't use twice as much Ampere on 120V because its half of 240V.
Current is Amperes, not watts and your panel/entrance is Amperes. Your limit is in Ampere, not watts. So you could max your say 200A panel/counter/entrance with 240V or 120V or a combination thereof, but we're counting Amps here.
Watts/Volt = Amp, so if you're using 120V you can use half as much watts as versus 240V.
So if you're using 1000 watts on 120V you're using 8~ Amp out of your 200A and you're not getting it back by loading the other leg with 8~ Amps 120v. That's 16 Amps @120V used, or 1920Watts~ You're not allowed twice as much Amperes.
If you're using 1000 watts on 240V you're using 4 Amps out of your 200A. So you're getting twice as much watts for the same amperage.
So no, you can't use 38400 Watts on 120V with 200A panel, that would be 320Amps but you can at 240V.
He is arguing, because he thinks that we're saying the energy usage is 1/2 on 240 than it is 120, and no one here that I can see is claiming that. Crap, you're right, that is where the disconnect is, and I'm totally reading and interpreting all the math wrong as a result. The amperage would indeed be the limitation on the breaker box. I mean, technically you COULD still install 4 20a 110s in a breaker box fed by a single 40a 220, but you'd still have the load problem and the breaker would trip under more than 50% load, and that wasn't what I was saying anyway. Apologies for confusing the conversation. No worries, its not like we completely derailed op's thread or anything.  |
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He is arguing, because he thinks that we're saying the energy usage is 1/2 on 240 than it is 120, and no one here that I can see is claiming that.
Oh, no, its less current (A), half as much. Same wattage And maybe 0.5% to 4% less power consumption due to easier step down and AC/DC conversion efficiency, nothing to do with what we were talking(arguing?) about. |
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I see what you're saying, but the draw is coming from the single breaker in the main box, so it has no effect on your service limit. From that point, a 220 40a will provide enough power for 2x20a @220 or 4x20a @110. It's the same amount of energy.
I'm pretty sure that's not right, if you use 120V you will be using 1 Hot leg + 1 Neutral. You won't be using both hot legs. So if you have 4 * 20A 120V breaker you have 80A available, 80% = 64A@120V = 7680Watts available. If you have 80A on 240V you have 64A@240V = 15360Watts available. This is why you want to use 240V for mining, as you halve your amount of AMP use, effectively having access to twice as much Watts on the same electrical entrance. Maybe a certified Electrician can comment... Your power consumption isn't based on amperage, it's based on wattage. And I am talking about a sub box, not a single outlet (which your math makes sense for). Your neutral is in the box and you have a separate ground. You can run whatever you want out of it up to the max wattage supplied by the breaker supplying the box (and space in the box, 220s take up twice the space, remember). So in your example, if you have 80A on 240 feeding the box, you indeed have 15,360W available (for constant draw, but since we're both working that into the math already, let's leave it as assumed for the rest of this example). How that gets broken up is up to you, you can have, say, 4x 20a 240v breakers (4*20=80*240*.8=15360), or 8x 20a 120v (8*20=160*120*.8=15360), or you can have, say, 2x 20a 240v and 4x 20a 110v, or any combination that adds up to 15360 (or less). That is correct. I've measured it on a rig running on 120V and I've measured it on a rig running 240V. If your rig on 120 is drawing 8A, it's only drawing 4A on 240V.
Wattage divided by Voltage = Amp ... 900W Rig/120V = 7.5A ... 900W Rig/240V = 3.75A.
That's correct. But the draw is wattage, not amperage. Both those examples are using the same amount of energy. What are you even arguing. On a 200A panel. If you're using 120V, you can use 120V * 200A. If you're using 240V, you can use 240V * 200A. The Amp limit doesn't change, but the wattage does. You can't use twice as much Ampere on 120V because its half of 240V. Current is Amperes, not watts and your panel/entrance is Amperes. Your limit is in Ampere, not watts. So you could max your say 200A panel/counter/entrance with 240V or 120V or a combination thereof, but we're counting Amps here. Watts/Volt = Amp, so if you're using 120V you can use half as much watts as versus 240V. So if you're using 1000 watts on 120V you're using 8~ Amp out of your 200A and you're not getting it back by loading the other leg with 8~ Amps 120v. That's 16 Amps @120V used, or 1920Watts~ You're not allowed twice as much Amperes. If you're using 1000 watts on 240V you're using 4 Amps out of your 200A. So you're getting twice as much watts for the same amperage. So no, you can't use 38400 Watts on 120V with 200A panel, that would be 320Amps but you can at 240V. |
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Haha, that's cool, but making ASIC chips doesn't mean they're making miners. For example they could be making ASICs ships for Bitmain to build with. I really wonder who they are making these chips for, though. They will be a major player, whomever they are. |
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Exactly what he said ... That's what I was getting at.
There seem to be lots of confusion so my reply was more adding info that may help some people than aimed specifically at you. As for what i know that 220-240v 40a are 3 wires plug and cable, which are 2 hot wire and 1 ground wire. Each hot wire are still only 20a.
15a or 20a are normal outlet in most home in the US, which can hanle 1800/2400w. I will reserve 20% of the load for safety due to if you are running the power consistently over 3 hours. so you are talking about 1440/1920w per a breaker line (not each outlet).
With your kitchen 240v that really don't give you much if you running a 6-8gpu rig 1k-1.2kw. which only allow you run 2 rigs or 3 max. BTW most American home power line are 100a cable from outside, apartment that depend could be 100 or 200a. you really can't setup like mining farm, because you will max out your power line after 4 rigs that take 1kw+ each system. Unless you not using any electricity at home, like Microwave, AC, Ranger, Fridge bla bla bla that draw power as well.
No. While 240v 40a is 3 or 4 wires, both hots are 40A, but at 120v, the ground and optionally the neutral are there but not any different from usual. Two 120v 20a give you 240v 20a, not 40a. Phil is correct as usual. This is incorrect. 240V is 2 hot and a bonded conductor, commonly called the ground. There is no neutral. A 4 wire system is 3 phase - 2 hot, 1 neutral, 1 bonded conductor (ground). Commonly used in commercial buildings, not typical for residential. Due to 3 phases, you get the standard 120V phase to ground (or neutral) and 208V phase to phase. Hold on a second. What is incorrect, to me you just repeated what i said. Except though i believe you are incorrect about the 3 phase bit. Are you arguing the neutral part? That's only useful if you want 120V. It's not 3 phase, that's something else. 3 Phase is not available in residential setup, but 4 wire 240v is. It's standard even, you will see 4 pins on oven connector, as such is the case in this thread; 2 Hot, 1 Ground, 1 Neutral For example a lot of ovens have a 120V plug in the front, that's because the 120V will use 1 hot leg + neutral as reference. Then the 240V use 2 120V hot leg. Both 120V and 240V has a ground, whether you use it or not.
Efficiency to a degree is valid, yes, though in my house I've noticed an extremely negligible difference when testing antminer PSUs (though they are SUPPOSED to have significant efficiency variance).
Draw? 4x120=480W. 2x240=480W. How are you running double the rigs on the same wattage?
You're able to run more on less amp draw with 240. Not more wattage. Maybe I said that wrong. If you have 100amp service, that's your limit. If you have 200amp service, that's your limit ... I see what you're saying, but the draw is coming from the single breaker in the main box, so it has no effect on your service limit. From that point, a 220 40a will provide enough power for 2x20a @220 or 4x20a @110. It's the same amount of energy. I'm pretty sure that's not right, if you use 120V you will be using 1 Hot leg + 1 Neutral. You won't be using both hot legs. So if you have 4 * 20A 120V breaker you have 80A available, 80% = 64A@120V = 7680Watts available. If you have 80A on 240V you have 64A@240V = 15360Watts available. This is why you want to use 240V for mining, as you halve your amount of AMP use, effectively having access to twice as much Watts on the same electrical entrance. Maybe a certified Electrician can comment... |
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Well, a huge drop in hashrate in combination with these low BTC prices -can- mean one thing... Bitmain is coming with some new mining gear soon. (And profit the max out of it?) People sell their coins at very low prices to buy gear, Bitmains collect their BTC and hold till full future recover. They have done it before  I love how people just make the most random bullshit up so they can pile on the "whine about bitmain" bandwagon. Bitmain isnt even accepting BTC.... The falling BTC price makes BCH more profitable to mine even if BCH prices havent moved. There are multiple switching pools out there that will move mass amounts of hashrate to BCH when it is more profitable. Of course there are party's moving their hashrate, but cannot see this drop in hashrate back in BCH hashrate rise, maybe it is just magically gone, but I don't think so. Gear pulled off? T9's and S9's sold earlier on their site? We cann only guess, but I won't be surprised to see something new soon. Samsung rumors state 11\8nm so Bitmains will come up with something if this is a serious threat. And when BTC is low and you need to sell to pay in BCH, you have to sell your BTC at low prices, can't call it anything else? It is not whining, just taken some seen actions in mind... Its true Bitmain doesn't accept BTC nowadays, but i can't really say i know what they are mining with it. It may not even be Bitmain, but they are the easy antagonist to bring up. They tend to have poor practices and i have poor experience with their support or them sending me dirty ass Antminer that was obviously being mined on. |
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For my so called "self escrow" The offer to pay OP after i've verified that the 4 A3 is in good order, is mine to make and OP's to refuse. Not for anyone else to judge. I've done this in the past, also recently for small deals and it has worked out well for everyone. If none of you trust me, that's fine.
It is very much ours to judge. From reading the backlog on Skype, i acknowledge my statement concerning you, OgNasty specifically was abrupt, lacking finesse and i should have specified what my distrust is about. Ziku's attitude irritating me and not really letting me lay down any plans, so the conversation got cut short with a mutually rude attitude.
In other words: You did lie and have no proof of him scamming anyone whatsoever. Your trust rating should at least be nullified. You really enjoy starting forum FUD and flame war, don't you?
I despite scammers and attempted scammers. It has nothing to do with FUD nor flame wars. Welp you're welcome to judge, then. The allegations against OgNasty are on his trust profiles, the campaign against him left plenty of reference there you are welcome to browse and decide for yourself. I was not here while it happened, but i saw them when i came back. This is why i brought up OgNasty specifically, albeit maybe unfairly, but most escrow all have their little FUD story. *This* right now, is called FUD, flame war. It's sad and immature. If you think offering someone to go without escrow is proof of attempt scamming, well, i think you're unreasonable and just like feeding off forum drama like a common troll. But it is not right to smear OgNasty's name, i apologize to him for not looking into the false allegations before judging. |
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-snip-
Did you just state that OgNasty scammed someone? I'm assuming this is a made up lie that you're spreading behind his back. I'll notify him. Yes, please enlighten me who I scammed VirosaGITS. I’d like to hear your response before leaving you appropriate feedback. Fine, i guess this will take some explaining. It look like we've got a witch hunt. @all Today, i added OP on skype in the spirit of helping him out with his hardware problem, i see a lot of people coming by ethOS channels, for which i've been dev/testing since nearly the start. I believe i've helped many people situate their hardware, or how to build their system. This is also my launching base for my bios modding practice. I list this at the bottom; http://virosa.ethosdistro.comHowever OP was rude, even if i was willing to pay his asking price, regardless of whether one of my offers were good for him or not. He was treating me like the people were mistreating him previously, as he elegantly brought up during the chat. I had just gotten up, didn't get my coffee yet and he was pissing me off. @OgNasty In the future would appreciate if i could be left out from forum flame wars and FUD, however i do respect you for what you have done for me in the past and i have to modestly acknowledge that i am not actually able to say if your recent negative trust you have received are veracious or truly relevant to my potential dealings. While I will not be spreading this FUD on the forum, i wish to reserve the right to distrust whomever i see fit in private, if you look at the chat log you will see i wished not to trust any forum escrow, not just you, OgNasty. For my so called "self escrow" The offer to pay OP after i've verified that the 4 A3 is in good order, is mine to make and OP's to refuse. Not for anyone else to judge. I've done this in the past, also recently for small deals and it has worked out well for everyone. If none of you trust me, that's fine. But we're not only talking about that smaller deal, are we? In my attempt at laying out a plan with OP; we're not only talking about a 5 digits. As such my initial intent was in helping OP with his hardware problem, with a value that would total 137K~, i believe it was reasonable to wish to use a IRL escrow service to act as an intermediary and deal directly with FIAT, to cover both side. Either a recognized notarized service, or a Datacenter as intermediary. From reading the backlog on Skype, i acknowledge my statement concerning you, OgNasty specifically was abrupt, lacking finesse and i should have specified what my distrust is about. Ziku's attitude irritating me and not really letting me lay down any plans, so the conversation got cut short with a mutually rude attitude. Im getting my pop corns  Another "trusted" member with green trust trying to claim he's the N1 here abusing his trust power to force newbie doing "self-escrow" trade :D:D:D I can't stop laugh. Thanks god the kid is not born yesterday to fall on that scam :D:D Lets see will the mods/DT1 members will take action against this scam attempt and all the words that all escrows are scammers :D:D Its not like that's something new but, that obvious scam attempt from "green trust" guy is so hilarious. What scam attempt? The whole discussion was done without even verifying each other's identify, nor did i even verify if he had the goods. -snip-
Did you just state that OgNasty scammed someone? I'm assuming this is a made up lie that you're spreading behind his back. I'll notify him. "Self-escrow", also known as a scam attempt. 
This guy is a literal joke, thinking that 5 digits is a lot of money given the amounts that some of the forum escrows have held/are holding. You really enjoy starting forum FUD and flame war, don't you? |
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Exactly what he said ... That's what I was getting at.
There seem to be lots of confusion so my reply was more adding info that may help some people than aimed specifically at you. As for what i know that 220-240v 40a are 3 wires plug and cable, which are 2 hot wire and 1 ground wire. Each hot wire are still only 20a.
15a or 20a are normal outlet in most home in the US, which can hanle 1800/2400w. I will reserve 20% of the load for safety due to if you are running the power consistently over 3 hours. so you are talking about 1440/1920w per a breaker line (not each outlet).
With your kitchen 240v that really don't give you much if you running a 6-8gpu rig 1k-1.2kw. which only allow you run 2 rigs or 3 max. BTW most American home power line are 100a cable from outside, apartment that depend could be 100 or 200a. you really can't setup like mining farm, because you will max out your power line after 4 rigs that take 1kw+ each system. Unless you not using any electricity at home, like Microwave, AC, Ranger, Fridge bla bla bla that draw power as well.
No. While 240v 40a is 3 or 4 wires, both hots are 40A, but at 120v, the ground and optionally the neutral are there but not any different from usual. Two 120v 20a give you 240v 20a, not 40a. Phil is correct as usual. |
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You're able to run more on less amp draw with 240. Not more wattage. Maybe I said that wrong. If you have 100amp service, that's your limit. If you have 200amp service, that's your limit ...
I save maybe 1% Watts using EVGA G2/P2 ATX PSU's on 240v vs 120v. Some Server PSU have a big difference, like 4-5%, even as far as to have a TDP limit of 1100w on 240v or max 800w if they're plugged on 120v. As for Amps, 240v is half the amp for the same wattage, that's why using 240v allowed me twice as much rigs in an apartment setup! 30a * 0.8 * 120v = 2880w limit 30a * 0.8 * 240v = 5760w limit Basically, 240v is safer, since the risk is of burning down is a AMPERE thing. My rig will still pull 1kW~ but on 240v its 4A~ Instead of 8A~ so the power cord is cooler and less amp go through the socket. |
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Don't forget BTC forks. Bitmain could trigger this drop by themselves if they just switched a DC or two to BCH or whatever other forks they feel like today.
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I chatted with OP on Skype, he's not accepting offers currently, even if you're willing to pay his asking price. If you're looking to close, don't waste your time.
He acted overall pretty irate and and does not wish to discuss anything serious at this point.
I'm also surprised he does not seem interested in sending his hardware to a Datacenter, which would allow him to start mining within days. I would also be okay with putting funds in IRL escrow and or to host the hardware for OP myself, but again, OP is not willing to discuss much at this moment in time.
@OP One way, would be to use GND DC here in Labrador. Once you're setup there you could negotiate with anyone, such as me, without stress of having idle ASICs.
I may be able to talk to the staff/CFO/CEO i've met when i went there for a client, to contract a change ownership of the ASICs through them. If for some reason you're not interested in Mining on your ASICs yourself. I would not mind flying there for the ASICs you have, but i'm not really up for Flying to the EU for a few dozens ASICs right now.
I have a feeling we won't reach any agreement, for whatever reason. Good luck anyways.
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Yep i've done it. I think i somewhat documented it somewhere but i cba to dig it out. Just make sure the plug is unpullable, it doesn't lock, normally the oven is in the way and that make it secure. You don't want see 35amps@240v arcing.
Awesome ! Can you tell me which adapter you have used to do this? And what other measure have you done to make it as most secure possible. I bought a bright yellow oven replacement plug on amazon and to keep it secured i pushed the oven back in place. And i used a cheap as fuck 40A PDU used, maybe 75$ With some C20 outlets and for 2 * 8$ he shipped me power strip bar that gave C13's. On Ebay. |
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Hey guys, I am currently mining some Ethereum with multiple GPU's. I was wondering how to use my 240V 40amp circuit that is dedicated for my oven. I don't really use that circuit and don't want to install or rewire things there. So I suppose I could buy an adapter and run my psu's with a good PDU. I don't want to have the hassle to have multiple rigs on different circuit (15A, 120V) if I could have technically up to 7680 Watts (240V * 40Amp * 0.80%) in only one. Anyone could suggest me some adapter and good pdu to do this? I saw online some people doing the same thing in dryer outlet. Here is picture of my breaker: https://imgur.com/a/rjStcHere's pictures of my outlet: https://imgur.com/a/SfcaGhttps://imgur.com/a/IHFMUThank you very much  Yep i've done it. I think i somewhat documented it somewhere but i cba to dig it out. Just make sure the plug is unpullable, it doesn't lock, normally the oven is in the way and that make it secure. You don't want see 35amps@240v arcing. |
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Not sure "All Taxes Are Paid" are going to be a upside for we whom live in the west, we have our own VAT/GST. Grubby paw government.
Maybe if the price is right i'd buy them but i'm in Canada, so the deal may make more sense for a member of the EU. Anyways if you end up being desperate to sell, i may be interested to buy, if self escrowing is an option, the shipping is probably not too bad when you consider the hardware to be worth so much dollars.
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Im not here to do anybody any favors. If people are willing to pay $700 for a 580, who are you to say i'm wrong for selling it to them?
I'll sell mine for that price. me either I haven't got a PM yet, i guess people don't actually buy GPUs for that price  |
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Im not here to do anybody any favors. If people are willing to pay $700 for a 580, who are you to say i'm wrong for selling it to them?
I'll sell mine for that price. |
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With this attitude, you from Québec?  |
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