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661  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: November 18, 2013, 07:18:55 PM
Need some conspiracy theory analysis here. Mellon banking dynasty, apparently richer than the Rockefellers, and it's probably not just them. There may be some strings being pulled somewhere. A few moles in the ranks. This is getting fun.
662  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 18, 2013, 06:54:37 PM

What in the??!?!
663  Economy / Speculation / Re: SecondMarket Bitcoin Investment Trust Observer on: November 18, 2013, 03:38:56 PM
It looks almost like they single handedly caused all this. If this really small institutional investor can cause this just wait until Mastercoin brings in the big money.

I've pondered that idea many a time. Of course China is not insignificant. But also you could make the argument that for Second Market to get into this, it really indicates that there's an underlying sea change happening within Wall Street and other big money people (the Mellon banking dynasty, supposed to be wealther than the Rockefellers). They are buying on dark pools, meaning the exchanges only show a severe coin shortage rather than a bunch of huge whale buys. This results in more delayed price action, but more assured upward movement.
664  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: November 18, 2013, 01:24:41 PM
There's no way the FBI gives them up. 
They won't give them up, but the NSA might deploy Stuxnet to steal them.

Seriously. I much prefer the FBI have them than some bankers.

At least they can use them to fight crime. I know that will piss off some anarchists around here.

Better the FBI than the bankers. But actually I want everyone in the government to hold bitcoins. Then all the right incentives are in place for the monetary regime to rip apart at the seams.
665  Economy / Speculation / Re: SecondMarket Bitcoin Investment Trust Observer on: November 18, 2013, 01:20:37 PM
666  Economy / Economics / Re: rpietila public diary -- Episode II on: November 18, 2013, 01:04:59 PM

Right now Bitcoin acts as a store of value more than a medium of exchange and it's not necessary for Bitcoin to ever be a medium of exchange to reach much higher valuations. Gold is a good example which has a very high valuation despite not being used a medium exchange since the gold standard.

Not so sure about that. Store of value is based on trust and "intrinsic" value . Gold is used as store of value but also in industry + it has historical "trust".  Bitcoin as a store of value only doesn't seem possible in the long term.

Follow this logic a ways: The intrinsic* value is based - at the very bottom - on the nascent present uses as a currency and remittance system, and more so on its future uses in such capacities. That value, largely based on future promise though it may be, provided the initial bedrock for the store-of-value functionality. And since Bitcoin has absolutely revolutionary features when used as a store of value, even a little adoption of Bitcoin as a store of value is a virtuous cycle. People believe in its future for various uses, including store of value but a whole lot more, and so they don't sell much. It becomes more and more an excellent store of value, now outlandishly excellent, preposterously amazing, utterly world-beating in this regard going up 10 million percent in four years. Teleportable, deniable, non-confiscatable if done right, and 10M% gain in four years. It's impossible not to call this the greatest intergalactic homerun of all time in the store-of-value department, so far at least.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1mb27q/bitcoins_vast_overvaluation_appears_caused_by/cc7i6y8

Bitcoin is simply a universal ledger. You want to secure your place on that universal ledger, because the planet is moving toward adopting this universal ledger idea, as it is vastly superior to any alternative. The only thing that was needed was the initial motivation to use this ledger. Once some people use it, they create the incentive for more to want to use it, and so on. There's no limit until it takes over the earth or gets replaced by something else.

People will back at how we used to trade industrial and decorative metals around to communicate value and laugh at how primitive it was.

"How would you get those metals to your friend on the other side of the world?"

"Well you could fly them there, but that was really hard, or you could trust a chain of companies in different jurisdictions to take your metals and make sure someone over there gave the same amount to your friend, all the intermediaries taking a cut of course. Alternatively, you could use paper certificates printed by governments that promised they wouldn't print too many, but always broke those promises eventually."

"What the heck?! You had the Internet. Why didn't you just have a universal ledger?"

*improper term: use "non-monetary value" or "non-exchange value," because nothing has intrinsic value, technically (valuation is always a subjective judgment)
667  Economy / Economics / Re: Do you really believe in bitcoin as a currency? on: November 18, 2013, 12:41:20 PM
Not currency, but valuable commodity.

Given the fact it is P2P, bitcoin cannot be banned, seized or whatever  Smiley

I agree. Since day 1 (about $0.85 in my case), I've saw far greater potential was as a speculative asset / offshore value-storage account, than as a grandma's e-currency for online payments. Gavin was one of the people always pushing to sign up merchants to use as a "currency" (he signed up his neighbors to sell alpaca socks), instead of a game about "buying low and selling high". But clearly, such efforts are futile.

+1

Currency use will come later. Now is the store-of-value phase, mostly. Then comes the remittance phase, soon, and then finally when enough people are conversant in Bitcoin we will see the major merchant adoption.

People invest now based fundamentally on the promise of other uses in the future. Bitcoin rewards such risk-taking and insightful people. In so doing it becomes a store of value now. It's beautiful.
668  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 18, 2013, 09:54:05 AM
You have to just sit back and laugh. Take a zen attitude about loss. The planet is gyrating, at times violently, in the death throes of the old system.
669  Economy / Speculation / Re: Analysis of previous bubble corrections and impending crash on: November 18, 2013, 09:45:44 AM
Log charts, please.
670  Economy / Speculation / Re: SecondMarket Bitcoin Investment Trust Observer on: November 18, 2013, 09:42:51 AM
I was thinking we needed a BIT observer. Next update in about 12 hours. Investors are in for another pleasant surprise.
671  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 18, 2013, 09:29:29 AM

Maybe people are starting to believe the exact opposite of what the government is saying.

Nah, the reason for the correction is simple: it was going up wayyy too fast. Borderline double-exponential growth was starting.
672  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 18, 2013, 09:13:48 AM
I feel bad for the noobs that never learn...... Roll Eyes

Then they complain btc is overpriced and how its unfair distribution of wealth....

When it's going up steadily, they cry "DEFLATIONARY SPIRAL!!!"

When it's going up violently they cry "TULIP BUBBLE!!!"

When it's stable they ignore it completely.

When it's correcting they say "TOLD YA SO!!!"

When it's crashing they laugh it up.

When it goes back up they say "TOO EXPENSIVE!!!"

When it goes way back up and then to higher highs they scream "UNFAIR!!!"

You can't win.
673  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 18, 2013, 09:10:02 AM
550 tryng to hold... if not.. sub 500 coins???

The idea of sub-500 coins horrifies me. Who could have ever thought we would descend so low?

That's the confirmation I've been waiting for.

How do you feel about sub $100 coins ?

I think he was joking.
674  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 18, 2013, 09:08:02 AM
China is going apeshit, price all over the place.

This is what happens when you go double-exponential. Thank goodness for a little cold water on this thing. I want just a bit more steady climbs. Disorder is bad.
675  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 18, 2013, 09:04:31 AM
Finally, a correction. I was getting nervous for a second that this would be the final surge to quadruple digits.

That was some pretty nice manipulation, first time I've ever seen it myself live. It was like the price was 618 but someone pushed through a zillion tiny orders at 609 so the price kept jumping between them, and just after that it tumbled. Good time to play the old manipulation card on Gox, where you can still cause major lag and blind trading.

China's just holding at 3888.80 now. No, Bitcoinity is broken? China not updating for 6 minutes.
676  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 18, 2013, 08:42:33 AM
i missed a few hours of fun.

I almost got divorced tonight almost! my life is really crazy these days.
unbelievable shit.
bitcoin prices moving like this has is not helping! can't sleep, super thrilled one min, then life reminds you that money really doesn't buy happiness.

Shit man, that sucks. Bitcoin can really take you away from friends and family. That means you should probably reduce the size of your position in Bitcoin and increase the size of your position in her Wink
677  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 18, 2013, 08:36:14 AM
long term its better but i think its not bad daytrading days like today with high volatility

Not if you're a beginner(!!!)

Not even if you're an expert, unless you're exceptional. These boards are littered with the bodies of day traders who thought they could out-think the market. Some of them were very, very smart with decades of investment experience, fluents in many kinds of technical analysis. I notice the buy-and-holders are still here, whereas each monthly generation of traders has come and gone.

Luckily for you, buy and hold is also the easiest strategy for the beginner, in addition to being the most profitable. We may well crash fairly soon so now is not the best time to buy, but as rpietila said if you're still accumulating it doesn't matter much. Don't be a pig, just get in.

Here's a handy strategy guide for how to invest in Bitcoin, if you ever get stuck.
678  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 18, 2013, 07:21:57 AM
Danger: Curving upward on the log chart. If we don't get a correction soon this could be the final blow-off to quadruple digits then crash.

Someone please STOP THIS THING Grin

Look at this chart, and compare the $10->$266->$100 period from earlier this year with the 2011-February through 2011-April time period: http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#igDailyztgSzm1g7zm2g25zl

I'd post a chart with those two regions circled, but my MSPaint skills aren't good enough.

I'm comparing it to the month of March 2013, now just entering April. It's so close to an exact match for the past 30 days that it's uncanny. That suggests another doubling+ in a week then crash (possibly).

If we do a repeat of 2011 then God help us.
679  Economy / Speculation / Re: Analysis of previous bubble corrections and impending crash on: November 18, 2013, 07:18:53 AM
You gotta have a mania phase or it just ain't a bubble Grin
680  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 18, 2013, 06:59:22 AM
Danger: Curving upward on the log chart. If we don't get a correction soon this could be the final blow-off to quadruple digits then crash.

Someone please STOP THIS THING Grin
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