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821  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 23, 2014, 04:22:45 PM
We can't even agree to raise the block size limit -- a limitation that, if unchanged will either dramatically limit Bitcoin's applicability, or will cause such high txn fees that a worldwide Bitcoin will be limited to high value transactions.  Either case opens up all kinds of avenues for traditional finances, fiat currencies, etc.  And the only downside is that the home user MAY not be able to run a full node.
Sidechains contribute to this inability to reach agreement.

They just change the argument from "we don't need to raise the limit because altcoins" to "we don't need to raise the limit because sidechains."

I mean come on... If I was a tinfoil hat wearing type, I'd really begin to suspect some of you guys.
If I was a tinfoil hat wearing type, I'd link to documents that show accusing people of being "conspiracy theorist" is a common disruption tactic employed by intelligence agents.
822  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 23, 2014, 04:19:03 PM
Though I think this is ortogonal to sidechains concept as long as every full node incarnation could implement such feature.
I wouldn't care so much about Blockstream if it wasn't composed of so many of the people who can effectively veto changes to the Bitcoin protocol, and who suddenly have a financial incentive to block protocol changes that are good for the network but bad for their revenue.

If the network was implementation-heterogeneous, then it wouldn't be such a potential problem.
823  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 23, 2014, 03:51:25 PM
So it seems that the real problem is the concentration of core devs into a single company, rather than the concept in itself.
...and the Bitcoin Core monopoly itself.

I want to see the network fully heterogenous at the implementation level.

We should be just as concerned about all the mining being done with Bitcoin Core as we are concerned about too much hashing being controlled by ghash.io.

Get btcd, libbitcoin, and a couple more independent implementations in there too.
824  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: October 23, 2014, 03:48:35 PM
It's amazing how many people who genuinely believe Bitcoin is dead don't have anything better to do with their time than to post on the forum of a dying, failed idea.

If I wasn't so sure that nobody has a reason to lie on the Internet, I might start to question their motives.
825  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 23, 2014, 03:46:20 PM
In such episode Adam Back said the he was concerned over digital scarcity, a Bitcoin property harmed by the proliferation of altcoins.

Secondly he said that to sustain a proper level of innovation the community need to find a way to introduce changes into Bitcoin
in more secure way.

With "secure way" I think he meat having a proper test-bed, different from the test network, to check the impact of new changes.

He thinks that SCs is a solution to both problems.

I don't know if he's right or wrong, but it seems to me that he cares about Bitcoin future.
That's probably what Adam Back wants.

However, this isn't just about him.

Blockstream has investors, who presumably want a return on their investment, a return that requires the continuing relevance of sidechains.

If the Bitcoin protocol adopts features that are developed in sidechains, then the need for sidechains diminishes.

What will those investors say about that? What will Blockstream do in response?
826  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 23, 2014, 03:16:50 PM
Sure it would be great if these people did the work as charity, but its hard to demand that, especially for a project with a 6B market cap.  Can no $ flow to contributors?

Many for-profit companies contribute meaningfully to open source.  

In this case, the company will provide open source patches enabling sidechains to Bitcoin, and spend $ to create the consensus to get it actually included.  This might be the hardest part.  At that point, anyone can create their own sidechains.
I like the Conformal model.

They make money from Coinvoice, and btcd is the Bitcoin implementation they use to run their business. They eat their own dogfood, and donate the code into the community, but don't make money from other people using btcd.

I wish more companies would develop alternate implementations using this model.

also, they didn't require a fork to do their thing.

sure you are right,if possible avoiding forking is a good thing, but take into account that there
are certain type of features that require a fork.

if memory serves gavin recently proposed an hard fork to introduce a 50% a year automatic
increase of the max block size.
I don't think the problem is the fork as much as it's the financial incentive to get their fork in, and then block all other future forks that would render sidechains less necessary.
827  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 23, 2014, 02:54:44 PM
Sure it would be great if these people did the work as charity, but its hard to demand that, especially for a project with a 6B market cap.  Can no $ flow to contributors?

Many for-profit companies contribute meaningfully to open source.  

In this case, the company will provide open source patches enabling sidechains to Bitcoin, and spend $ to create the consensus to get it actually included.  This might be the hardest part.  At that point, anyone can create their own sidechains.
I like the Conformal model.

They make money from Coinvoice, and btcd is the Bitcoin implementation they use to run their business. They eat their own dogfood, and donate the code into the community, but don't make money from other people using btcd.

I wish more companies would develop alternate implementations using this model.
828  Bitcoin / Armory / Re: Armory - Discussion Thread on: October 23, 2014, 02:10:15 PM
Thanks GoatPig, so what do you reckon?

Is it really necessary to run TOR with Armory or I'm being too paranoid?

If you want to run a node and/or broadcast transactions without revealing your IP, you should use TOR. If your concern is not be victim of theft, stop using online wallets and enforce proper cold storage pratices. TOR doesn't add to your coins security, that's cold storage.

Looks like tor is worse

http://arxiv.org/abs/1410.6079

Nah, as far as I understand that paper, linkability of transactions to IPs with TOR is in the worst case the same as not using TOR. Care should be taken when receiving transactions, but as I described above, the anonymity of TOR isn't needed in that case.
Is it possible to configure bitcoind to have a receive only non-TOR connection, while maintaining a connection via TOR which is used to broadcast transactions?
Most of the attacks (except for the small number of hidden services to connect to) in that paper are fixed by adding "onlynet=tor" to bitcoin.conf, so that you don't use exit nodes at all.

Longer term, it would be good to encourage more nodes to run dual (triple) stacked - listening on ipv4 and tor (and ipv6).

Maybe it would be worth using proof of existence to allow hidden services to demonstrate they've been around for a while, even though this doesn't fully solve Sybil attacks.
829  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 23, 2014, 01:31:54 PM
Speaking of potential conflicts of interests:

https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/524949510347165696
830  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 23, 2014, 01:17:44 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2k070h/enabling_blockchain_innovations_with_pegged/clhak9c
831  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 22, 2014, 09:53:14 PM
buy coffe and newspaper in local sidechain and  keep savings in bitcoin blockchain (or even Quantum computer resistant sidechain :-) )
Good luck with that.
832  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 22, 2014, 09:47:16 PM
sidechain for local economy (town, country)
This is actually a great idea.

Local currencies should be given their chance to shine so that their inherent brokenness can be made obvious to everyone.

Kind of like what Freicoin did for the concept of demurrage.
833  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 22, 2014, 06:41:13 PM
http://www.blockstream.com/

would be interested in hearing what Gavin thinks of sidechains specifically:

https://twitter.com/gavinandresen/status/524975947356061697

I guess given your and justusranvier points and the fact Gavin wants to lift the block size limit, he would be in the opposing sidechains camp.
having a limit in size to the blocks in the bitcoin blockchain, would legitimize the need for sidechains.

so I see a political standoff approaching, soon, where those secretly invested in sidechains seek to limit block size.   


Gavin doesn't want to completely remove the blocksize limit; he just wants to increase it in accordance with Moore's Law (roughly). So, space will still be scarce.
The political standoff has been going on since at least 2012, since the altcoiners insisted that it would be too dangerous for Bitcoin to remove the block size limit, while simultaneous courting investors by claiming that Bitcoin can't scale.

The situation isn't helped in any way by people using terms of art they clearly don't understand, like "scarce."

"Scarce" is a binary term. A resource is either scarce, or non-scarce. Space in a block is scarce regardless of whether or not the size of a block is limited by production quotas.

In economics, "scarce" just means "not infinite".

Until it's possible to transmit an infinite amount of data with zero time delay without consuming any energy or using hardware, space in a Bitcoin block will be scarce, even if the average block size is 1 TB.
834  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: October 22, 2014, 06:14:04 PM
This is about payments not bitcoin but there is a synergy of efforts. Bitcoin may be an beneficiary but cryptocurrencies need to "grow up" and have standards. W3C Web Payments is committed to help provide the standards so potential future payment technologies can mature.

The beneficiaries we are the targeting are the unbanked, unbankable, and those not having access to financial infrastructure. We cant achieve this goal without integrating into the core of the browser technologies layered with security to create frictionless & borderless payments. We will help connect up another billion+ people to the global economy.
No offense, but I've been watching the W3C since the days of HTML 3 and your track record of creating successful web standards has been... mixed.

It's not obviously apparent that a W3C Web Payments standard would be useful or relevant.
835  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Gavin Andresen Proposes Bitcoin Hard Fork to Address Network Scalability on: October 22, 2014, 05:40:36 PM
Gavin has made a *lot* of insinuations lately that he is somewhat alone in his views on what to do with the Protocol.

He constantly mentions that the "other core devs" don't agree with him on much.

Who are these brilliant scholars that are turning the Bitcoin Protocol into the US Congress?   Completely unable to make decisions, be agreeable, and move forward?

Gavin can propose anything he likes, and we can all love it, but if this mysterious *CENTRALIZED* group of core devs doesn't like it, they wont have a "CONCENSUS".

Concensus is supposed to be from the entire community.  Not a handful of programmers who have zero education or training in finance.

-B-
It seems like there are a lot of people around with financial incentives to keep Bitcoin from advancing any further, even people who are nominally part of the "Bitcoin community".
836  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 22, 2014, 05:30:32 PM
going thru the paper now but this seems to be a problematic assumption:

"the core observation is that “Bitcoin” the blockchain is conceptually independent from “bitcoin” the asset: if we had technology
to support the movement of assets between blockchains, new systems could be developed which
users could adopt by simply reusing the existing bitcoin currency"


http://www.blockstream.com/sidechains.pdf
Also:

"Centralization risk" is never defined, nor is the mechanism via which it occurs is is explained.

(already know that answer to that one - it's Peter Todd's repackaging the natural monopoly fallacy)

"No safe upgrade path" is a software engineering deficiency, not an inherent feature of the problem space.

Moving transactions off the "main" blockchain deprives it of the tx fee revenue the parent blockchain requires to pay for hashing.

837  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 21, 2014, 08:56:52 PM
You think so? Someone may want to use bitUSD because they work with USD and all partnerships are set up with USD... but get all of the benefits of transfering tokens across the blockchain with low fees and low latency etc etc... to me it seems opposite... it is geared towards bringing in the real economy as it stands today. This goes with nuBits/XCP/NXT whoever solves the problem first to reach the network effect.
Those aren't what I was talking about.

I mean the ability for a company to raise funds by selling equity as bearer shares is one that only companies in the informal economy will benefit from.

That doesn't mean everybody who invents some kind of token-based financial instrument is doing something worthwhile. Most of the "assets" being traded on those platforms right now are worthless.
838  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 21, 2014, 08:30:48 PM
So no anonymous shareholders, which complicates the use of blockchain-based share certificates.  "Bearer shares" are not lawful in any jurisdiction that I'm aware of. 

This is just one example.  I suspect anonymous asset-backed tokens are unlawful as well (and is probably the reason we haven't seen Brock Pierce's "real coins").  Download the applicable laws in any relevant jurisdiction, and the difficulty in navigating them should become clear.
Only the informal economy is going to benefit from most of these tools.
839  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 21, 2014, 02:55:26 PM
All i have to say to that is... "That's a bit mad!"
Benjamin Fulford is not "a bit" mad...
840  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 21, 2014, 12:55:49 PM
First, I have never been involved in the Mastercoin project in any capacity at any time
Sorry about that. My memory must have glitched.
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