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1421  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Cryptos (mainly bitcoin) and how it helps the world on: July 06, 2014, 02:36:42 PM
http://nakamotoinstitute.org/virtual-communities/

Quote from: Tim May
The combination of strong, unbreakable public key cryptography and virtual network communities in cyberspace will produce interesting and profound changes in the nature of economic and social systems. Crypto anarchy is the cyberspatial realization of anarcho-capitalism, transcending national boundaries and freeing individuals to make the economic arrangements they wish to make consensually.
1422  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: ASICS killing BTC ? on: July 05, 2014, 09:09:32 PM
fatal as they will permanently remove the perception of BTC as a viable long term investment.
Do you think, in that case, LTC could be percieved as a viable long term investment?

No, or at least it will be massively reduced compared to the expectations that have been built around BTC.  If BTC ever ceases to be be a viable long term investment then it takes every other coin with it because it will be obvius the LTC would also have a successor some day.  But I wouldn't be surprised if it takes several such successions until people finally realize that the value in crypto-currency is the CODE not the COINS and we are going to see a succession of innovative coins that gradually supplant each other on technical merits, much as we treat every other piece of software ever made.

Very original thinking. Must sit and think.
How is this thesis working out so far?
1423  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: July 05, 2014, 08:09:07 PM
What I think we need, and I was talking with Chris Wilmer about this a few months ago, is to launch a peer-reviewed journal J Bitcoin, to help put an end to derpfests like these tireless PoS debates.  This way, we can point to a well-written article, reviewed by experts in the field, to both disseminate the work of our community more effectively and make the true state of knowledge more clear.  I would donate 1 BTC to such a cause if we had a credible plan to make the journal happen.
https://github.com/NakamotoInstitute/nakamotoinstitute.org
1424  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Getting paid in bitcoin on: July 05, 2014, 03:41:10 PM
It's easiest to get paid in bitcoin if you're an independent contractor rather than an employee.

You can use services that let you invoice in fiat and receive bitcoins so that your customers don't need to know anything about it: https://coinvoice.com/
1425  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: July 05, 2014, 02:05:07 PM
So isn't the combination of consensus-finding and coin issuance (or at least some sort of reward) not merely a "temporary coincidence", but a necessity?
Proof of work would still work even if new coins were being minted (it had better work, because within a few decades minting will drop to insignificant levels).

Imagine all the Bitcoin were premined and distributed by some other mechanism. You'd still need an objective way to determine transaction ordering.

Proof of work would function the same way as I described above - whomever proves the highest expenditure of opportunity cost will have their version of the ordering preferred over another miner who has expended less opportunity cost.

Without issuing new coins, you wouldn't even need a specific difficulty target to have a working system - the highest PoW would win each block. Difficulty is only needed to keep block creation near a constant rate because mining combines ledger updates with minting and having a deterministic schedule for minting is desirable.
1426  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: July 05, 2014, 12:14:32 PM
So if Wei Dai conceptualized that, what was Adam Back's contribution to POW?
Looks like Hashcash came out the year before b-money.

Figuring out that kind of chronology is why it takes longer to write articles than making forum posts.

There's a lot of information to rescue from the memory hole.
1427  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: July 05, 2014, 12:04:02 PM
Thank you for answering that roll your eyes assertion. I clearly did not have the energy to do so. You did.

Great explanation.
The reason I had the energy is that I was already working on that explanation because it's part of an article I want to write in the near future. It just so happened that kodtycoon's post was a great opportunity to create a preview/summary.
1428  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: July 05, 2014, 11:27:15 AM
that mechanism is far less than optimal for many reasons and excludes those who don't have mining gear and favours those with higher powered mining gear. It's no different to "rich getting richer" in nxt. In that respect, pow is elitist
This is the problem with proof of stake: it was invented by people who have no idea what problem mining is supposed to solve and have some agenda other than solving that problem.

Mining is not about allocating the issuance of new coins. The fact that they are tied together in Bitcoin is a temporary coincidence. Mining is about solving the problem of distributed consensus - how do a bunch of independent nodes spread all over the planet agree on a precise ordering of transactions when every node must operate with an incomplete view of the network and anybody might be trying to cheat?

This problem has nothing to do with elitism or notions of fairness or populism. Overlaying those agendas into the solution is a great way to not solve the problem.

As nodes on the network continually work to establish a consistent of narrative of what has happened in the netwowk based on their own incomplete knowledge, there will be times where two nodes disagree. Mining is nothing more than a signalling mechanism which provides an objective basis for choosing which version of history to treat as correct, whenever a conflict occurs such that more than one alternative version exist.

The design criteria for what makes a good mining algorithm comes from signalling theory:

Quote
Quote
Two individuals have access to different information.

They could both gain if they could honestly share this information.

However, their interests do not coincide entirely, and so each has an incentive to deceive the other.

How can honest communication be ensured?
How can honest communication be ensured despite conflicting interests between a signaller and a signal receiver?

Economists and biologists independently proposed that the costs associated with producing signals can provide a solution to this problem. Loosely paraphrased, the solution typically takes the following form.

Quote
Suppose that signals are costly, and that for one reason or another, lies cost more than honest signals.

If telling the truth is cheap enough and telling a lie is costly enough, it may be worthwhile to communicate honestly but not to lie.
There's a reason that when Wei Dai proposed b-money in 1998, he didn't even bother to explain why calculations in a proof of work system, "must be easy to determine how much computing effort it took to solve the problem and the solution must otherwise have no value, either practical or intellectual." He assumed this statement would be so obviously true that no explanation was needed. Apparently this is no longer the case.

The signal sent by proof of work is the amount of opportunity cost the miner has paid in order to produce the block. The fact that mining calculations are completely useless outside the signalling system itself is what makes lies more expensive than telling the truth, thus satisfying the conditions for honest signalling. The opportunity cost the miner pays to produce a block only represents a profitable trade for the miner if the network accepts their block. So when it comes to a node in the network choosing between two valid blocks, choosing to accept the block with the higher PoW means choosing the block which produced by the miner who has the most at stake in terms of opportunity cost paid.

Note that if the miner has to use specialized hardware for which there is no possible use other than mining, the signal is even better than performing otherwise-useless calculations on general purpose hardware. Higher opportunity costs = more reliable signal.

Proof of work is a proof of stake system, the only one that actually works.

PoS coins use the number of coins held as the basis for their signalling system. Since coins have an exchange rate, they obviously do not fulfill the criteria of having no value, either practical or intellectual. Thus PoS is not an viable mechanism for honest signalling.
1429  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The (A)Political Economy of Bitcoin on: July 05, 2014, 05:18:25 AM
Bitcoin did not appear in a vacuum. It's always been part of a greater agenda, one that is opposed to that the authors of this paper adhere.

http://nakamotoinstitute.org/b-money/

Quote from: Wei Dai
I am fascinated by Tim May's crypto-anarchy. Unlike the communities traditionally associated with the word "anarchy", in a crypto-anarchy the government is not temporarily destroyed but permanently forbidden and permanently unnecessary. It's a community where the threat of violence is impotent because violence is impossible, and violence is impossible because its participants cannot be linked to their true names or physical locations.

1430  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: July 04, 2014, 07:42:21 PM
it's the non-economically driven one thats interesting to consider altho even that one is difficult to imagine given the repercussions of attempting it.
It's impossible to secure against all possible non-economically driven attacks.

At the extreme end of the spectrum, the US military could defeat Bitcoin by using nuclear weapons to end all human life on the planet.
At the other end of the spectrum, there is an adversary who is willing to lose a maximum of 1 Satoshi in order to attack the network.

Somewhere between those two extremes there's a boundary between the attacks which we can successfully defend against, and the attacks we shouldn't even bother defending against.
1431  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Sign the BITCOIN RESTORATION PETITION!!!!!! on: July 03, 2014, 09:40:30 PM
Speaking of BitFury, they are the real reason for the mining centralization uproar. The idea that Allaire/Hearn are concerned about decentralization is laughable. Seriously, a Goldman Sachs veteran and a Google veteran?

This is all a propaganda campaign necessitated by the fact that the single largest holder of hashing power is Russian, and all the hardware is manufactured in China.

They've successfully created a Pavlovian reaction associated with the word "decentralized" and now intend to use it to convince the community to switch over to a mining network more easily controlled by the vampire squid.
1432  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: July 03, 2014, 09:39:09 PM
Speaking of BitFury, they are the real reason for the mining centralization uproar. The idea that Allaire/Hearn are concerned about decentralization is laughable. Seriously, a Goldman Sachs veteran and a Google veteran?

This is all a propaganda campaign necessitated by the fact that the single largest holder of hashing power is Russian, and all the hardware is manufactured in China.

They've successfully created a Pavlovian reaction associated with the word "decentralized" and now intend to use it to convince the community to switch over to a mining network more easily controlled by the vampire squid.
1433  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Sign the BITCOIN RESTORATION PETITION!!!!!! on: July 03, 2014, 07:08:23 PM
http://bastiat.org/en/petition.html
1434  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Anybody left your day job for bitcoin? on: July 03, 2014, 06:25:36 PM
is it YYYY-MM-DD OR YYYY-DD-MM


1435  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: July 03, 2014, 06:19:54 PM
here's my economic solution to ghash:  why doesn't someone just duplicate their 0 fee model along with mining contracts?  with time and future growth of Bitcoin, this should happen naturally as competitors "see" a successful model they want to get in on.  competitors may already be organizing as far as we know.  no need to panic.  others are also planning ways to further decentralization:
What you need to know about Ghash is they are just one part of a vertically-integrated operation.

BitFury is the manufacturer who builds the ASICs.
CEX is the retail side, selling shares of the hashing power and creating a commodity exchange for trading those shares.
Ghash.io is the pool where CEX points their hashing power. They constitute about half of the total Ghash.io network, with independent miners making up the rest.

The underlined portion is why the BitFury/CEX/Ghash conglomerate is doing better than everybody else. They get greater access to capital because they offer a commodity exchange which is  apparently what mining investors want.

The reason no one else does this is because the operators of CEX are in Ukraine, one of the few places where the SEC/CFTC can't easily get to them.
1436  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Anybody left your day job for bitcoin? on: July 03, 2014, 04:53:52 PM
2013-04-08
1437  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 03, 2014, 06:07:31 AM
I am fine with another plateau phase, followed by a big-ass bubble  Wink
That's indeed the best way to accumulate more bitcoins.
1438  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: July 03, 2014, 06:05:53 AM
You would think these people would understand bitcoin before they try to become "captains of industry"....
Nope.

Quote
we've revealed some ultimate truths and clarity about what money is and how it works and almost immediately another layer new layer of ignorance has grown on top ... a new layer but the same ignorance that buried these truths for a few centuries
1439  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 03, 2014, 05:38:38 AM
To the veterans here, does this pre-bubble FEEL different than the previous pre-bubbles (under the assumption that a bubble is nigh)?

The difference is the 6 months of bear shit and goxxing and fud we've just had. This wasn't the case last time.
It was just good news and good news meant up.
In those 6 months people have been trained to dump on every news. It's hard to go up when people dumb in blind panic because of a press conference. Also lots of people who bought in at 700-1000 months ago and they want their money back. This is obviously something we didn't have before.

It does feel the same. There is just so much more stopping us from going up. And it sucks.
The people trying to make their money back i totally understand but those panic sellers...man.
Feels a bit like 2011 (post mania) - early 2013.

Two years of an almost uninterrupted stream of good news, with little price movement.
1440  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: July 03, 2014, 05:04:04 AM
edit:  Vitalik Buterin once again displays his ignorance.  another bitter wannabe.
Where were all these people when the cypherpunks were doing the hard work of figuring out what money is, and how to make it better?

http://nakamotoinstitute.org/b-money/

Quote from: Wei Dai
I am fascinated by Tim May's crypto-anarchy. Unlike the communities traditionally associated with the word "anarchy", in a crypto-anarchy the government is not temporarily destroyed but permanently forbidden and permanently unnecessary. It's a community where the threat of violence is impotent because violence is impossible, and violence is impossible because its participants cannot be linked to their true names or physical locations.

Until now it's not clear, even theoretically, how such a community could operate. A community is defined by the cooperation of its participants, and efficient cooperation requires a medium of exchange (money) and a way to enforce contracts. Traditionally these services have been provided by the government or government sponsored institutions and only to legal entities. In this article I describe a protocol by which these services can be provided to and by untraceable entities.

I will actually describe two protocols. The first one is impractical, because it makes heavy use of a synchronous and unjammable anonymous broadcast channel. However it will motivate the second, more practical protocol. In both cases I will assume the existence of an untraceable network, where senders and receivers are identified only by digital pseudonyms (i.e. public keys) and every messages is signed by its sender and encrypted to its receiver.

In the first protocol, every participant maintains a (seperate) database of how much money belongs to each pseudonym. These accounts collectively define the ownership of money, and how these accounts are updated is the subject of this protocol.

1. The creation of money. Anyone can create money by broadcasting the solution to a previously unsolved computational problem. The only conditions are that it must be easy to determine how much computing effort it took to solve the problem and the solution must otherwise have no value, either practical or intellectual. The number of monetary units created is equal to the cost of the computing effort in terms of a standard basket of commodities. For example if a problem takes 100 hours to solve on the computer that solves it most economically, and it takes 3 standard baskets to purchase 100 hours of computing time on that computer on the open market, then upon the broadcast of the solution to that problem everyone credits the broadcaster's account by 3 units.
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