I would not suggest anyone follow Bitcoin blindly, I always recommend research, as I would here. Funny how $82 can warp ones' oppinion though.
Who said Decred was worth anything? I understand the value will be set by the market, not ones' opinion If decred is "not worth anything", how will the devs earn a living? (devs paid in decred will need to sell to eat I presume) p14 (270) beyondtext While I understand that you may feel 10% is too high a rate, as someone who has funded a lot of development work over the past 5 years, I disagree with your assessment. At a 10% subsidy rate, the dev organization will accumulate approximately 302,000 decred during its first year. If we assume the value of 1 decred averages to USD 1.00 over the first year, this means we'll have USD 302K to spend on development work. This is a small amount of funding and can pay for 3-4 full time developers for 1 year, so if we went below 10% dev subsidy it would mean the project cannot fund itself unless its exchange rate is well over USD 1.00 per decred. So, as we see, Beyondtext assumes $1 average in year 1. (presumably starting at $0.49, finishing the year at $1.50?) That presumption allows Beyondtext to pay 3-4 devs. If in fact the price remains at, or lower, than $0.49, that only pays maybe 2 devs or less. p25 488 ingsoc This begs the question though, and it's a serious one, what's the alternative for a new dev in the future? Work on Bitcoin and get paid nothing? Or work in a system where you get compensated for innovation and contributions that feed back into Bitcoin as well? I know that's biased, but So when ingsoc says "new dev work BTC for free or work here for pay...." maybe only 1 dev need apply! Not so ground breaking. Edit, just noticed ingsoc does say "A new dev in future" - singular (Also worth considering on this subject is that work will need doing, submitting, voting, implementing ect, before any payment? My point, it will be hard for any dev to plan/live of of this. A lot of risk of project rejection? Also the DHG is not an ideal entity for payment Edit. Also, if a lot of work is done by competing devs, but price doesn't rise, devs will go unpaid/underpaid. Equating to a massive risk dev work goes unrewarded/underrewarded when/if implemented, benefiting the "freeloader" not the dev. Same as Bitcoin?) BTW I dont disagree with the 10% block reward to pay devs whatsoever. I quite like it. I am just wondering the impact this will make on the project, in relation to the 4% premine c0 hold impact on the project. The scope of the 10% dev reward block can be changed over time. The premine cannot. It gives an immediate dominance to a company/single entity. So, if the "accepted (Beyondtext) sustainable dev/price ratio" is (ie) 3-4 dev @ $1 average yr 1, then c0 really has 2x return on "up front invesrment cost" = 840k or, if the "accepted sustainable dev/price ratio" is (ie) 1-2 dev @ $0.49. then c0 really get 1x return on up front investment cost" = 420k So (to move on below) we need a consensus on how many devs are needed/expected/required? (I read 3-4 min? maybe not such a project if only supporting 1 dev?) Anyway, if the price does need to be higher (than 0.49) to support the expected dev numbers, this should be clearer. So now the PoS yr1. c0 recieve ~ 450k coin, passively, for nothing other than they started this "controlled by all" project. That is another 2% of all decred coin produced, ever. And on it goes, year after year.(at least in the "good return" early years) c0 claim they only want their investment back, yet are rewarded, massively, thereafter. IMO, c0 PoS reward should be diverted to the dev fund. That would be fairer, (supporting devs more ect.) that is how this coin should be structured. This is the usual massive profit/power model here. Wake up people, we've seen it all before. I could really use $80 of BTC though.... decred need to average a price of $1 in year 1, in order to pay 3-4 devs. (Behindtext) I presume a $1.5 price at end year 1 to achieve this? So, c0 should declare the past "work/investments" at $1.50, not $0.49, a level which will not sustain the development of this project, then c0 would receive 1/3 the coin they concider due to them, (840k decreds) = 280k decreds And really, c0 should continue to shoulder some of the risk going on. Also show good will. So c0 could receive maybe 240k decreds at launch, and (with PoS rewards) still be adequately rewarded/repaid. In this scenario, at end of year 1, c0 will have receive ~ 1 million less coin than they would under current proposal. That would probably give this coin a chance to work. Then 600k less decreds need premining. Also, c0's PoS awards earned on those coin will be less obscene, and create less dominance/centralisation. No thoughts? decred say "This means Company 0 and its developers will have put roughly USD 415,000 into the bring-up since April, 2014 and receive 4% of the total supply, 840,000 coins (at USD 0.49 per coin)" Also decred (Behindtext) say "If we assume the value of 1 decred averages to USD 1.00 over the first year, this means we'll have USD 302K to spend on development work. This is a small amount of funding and can pay for 3-4 full time developers for 1 year, so if we went below 10% dev subsidy (edit, read "or price was below average $1") it would mean the project cannot fund itself" So, this coin needs to trade at $1.50 minimum to cover cost of 3-4 devs. But decred, calculating their investment at $0.49, are taking at least 3 times what they declare "fairly" due/invested. Then their "free" PoS rewards are also many multiples more than "fairly" due. Something don't add up here? |
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I guess i best reply to this, then, so not to clog the thread disproportionally, I'll try to just watch a day or two.
There is no fundermental misunderstanding. I do not believe dcred an attack on bitcoin as such, more an attack on decentralisation/equality due to massive % of "total" dcreds held by c0 in 1 year. I don't think everything new is a threat, but then there is nothing new in (a company) trying to take such vast (potential)future profit/power. I appreciate any contribution to Bitcoin made by c0, past and future, thankyou. I understand no claim of perfect has been made, but (imo) the stake held by c0 will prevent any real, long term, growth (perfect). c0 will hold all the real mass profit.
I would not suggest anyone follow Bitcoin blindly, I always recommend research, as I would here. Funny how $82 can warp ones' oppinion though.
Who said Decred was worth anything? I understand the value will be set by the market, not ones' opinion If decred is "not worth anything", how will the devs earn a living? (devs paid in decred will need to sell to eat I presume) p14 (270) beyondtext While I understand that you may feel 10% is too high a rate, as someone who has funded a lot of development work over the past 5 years, I disagree with your assessment. At a 10% subsidy rate, the dev organization will accumulate approximately 302,000 decred during its first year. If we assume the value of 1 decred averages to USD 1.00 over the first year, this means we'll have USD 302K to spend on development work. This is a small amount of funding and can pay for 3-4 full time developers for 1 year, so if we went below 10% dev subsidy it would mean the project cannot fund itself unless its exchange rate is well over USD 1.00 per decred. So, as we see, Beyondtext assumes $1 average in year 1. (presumably starting at $0.49, finishing the year at $1.50?) That presumption allows Beyondtext to pay 3-4 devs. If in fact the price remains at, or lower, than $0.49, that only pays maybe 2 devs or less. p25 488 ingsoc This begs the question though, and it's a serious one, what's the alternative for a new dev in the future? Work on Bitcoin and get paid nothing? Or work in a system where you get compensated for innovation and contributions that feed back into Bitcoin as well? I know that's biased, but So when ingsoc says "new dev work BTC for free or work here for pay...." maybe only 1 dev need apply! Not so ground breaking. Edit, just noticed ingsoc does say "A new dev in future" - singular (Also worth considering on this subject is that work will need doing, submitting, voting, implementing ect, before any payment? My point, it will be hard for any dev to plan/live of of this. A lot of risk of project rejection? Also the DHG is not an ideal entity for payment Edit. Also, if a lot of work is done by competing devs, but price doesn't rise, devs will go unpaid/underpaid. Equating to a massive risk dev work goes unrewarded/underrewarded when/if implemented, benefiting the "freeloader" not the dev. Same as Bitcoin?) BTW I dont disagree with the 10% block reward to pay devs whatsoever. I quite like it. I am just wondering the impact this will make on the project, in relation to the 4% premine c0 hold impact on the project. The scope of the 10% dev reward block can be changed over time. The premine cannot. It gives an immediate dominance to a company/single entity. So, if the "accepted (Beyondtext) sustainable dev/price ratio" is (ie) 3-4 dev @ $1 average yr 1, then c0 really has 2x return on "up front invesrment cost" = 840k or, if the "accepted sustainable dev/price ratio" is (ie) 1-2 dev @ $0.49. then c0 really get 1x return on up front investment cost" = 420k So (to move on below) we need a consensus on how many devs are needed/expected/required? (I read 3-4 min? maybe not such a project if only supporting 1 dev?) Anyway, if the price does need to be higher (than 0.49) to support the expected dev numbers, this should be clearer. So now the PoS yr1. c0 recieve ~ 450k coin, passively, for nothing other than they started this "controlled by all" project. That is another 2% of all decred coin produced, ever. And on it goes, year after year.(at least in the "good return" early years) c0 claim they only want their investment back, yet are rewarded, massively, thereafter. IMO, c0 PoS reward should be diverted to the dev fund. That would be fairer, (supporting devs more ect.) that is how this coin should be structured. This is the usual massive profit/power model here. Wake up people, we've seen it all before. I could really use $80 of BTC though.... Edit. And in immidiate response to my detailed, potentially productive, hard thought (though negative) analysis, two blinged up hero members step in to profit from the next p&d game..... vvv vvv vvv decred need to average a price of $1 in year 1, in order to pay 3-4 devs. (Behindtext) I presume a $1.5 price at end year 1 to achieve this? So, c0 should declare the past "work/investments" at $1.50, not $0.49, a level which will not sustain the development of this project, then c0 would receive 1/3 the coin they concider due to them, (840k decreds) = 280k decreds And really, c0 should continue to shoulder some of the risk going on. Also show good will. So c0 could receive maybe 240k decreds at launch, and (with PoS rewards) still be adequately rewarded/repaid. In this scenario, at end of year 1, c0 will have receive ~ 1 million less coin than they would under current proposal. That would probably give this coin a chance to work. Then 600k less decreds need premining. Also, c0's PoS awards earned on those coin will be less obscene, and create less dominance/centralisation. |
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By the way...announce was made december 15 with airdrop rules.
If now is too late for some user,means that you missed an airdrop run for 1 month!!!
So what? Buy on market. Price will skyrocket over years.
Well said. Years. This is not a get rich quick scheme (even though it might make you rich, quick) , and I'm sure all who wish will have ample time to get involved. If you missed out on the airdrop, you can still mine or buy Decred. I write a fairly level headed page long analysis of the situation here, to no interest or discussion on your part. Yet you response here, anders is right, cos he said the word "years". An unworthy response to my analysis. An unworthy response to a serious dev orientated coin. The usual shitcoin response. No considered argument. I hope the official response, when it comes, is more educated. |
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By the way...announce was made december 15 with airdrop rules.
If now is too late for some user,means that you missed an airdrop run for 1 month!!!
So what? Buy on market. Price will skyrocket over years.
I haven't missed the airdrop, People singing up yesterday? no confirm here. No decred? Price will only skyrocket on a deliberate pump. IMO.(v your baseless IMO) The 4% premine (and specifically the PoS on that premine) for c0 will forever hold it back. Your loss. Same old. How much is the Pos % ? Pos is 30% of block reward. (so c0 get 50% of all year 1 pos block reward = 15% of every block reward = 2% of total coins ever to be mined) Is it compounding? |
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By the way...announce was made december 15 with airdrop rules.
If now is too late for some user,means that you missed an airdrop run for 1 month!!!
So what? Buy on market. Price will skyrocket over years.
I haven't missed the airdrop, People singing up yesterday? no confirm here. No decred? Price will only skyrocket on a deliberate pump. IMO.(v your baseless IMO) The 4% premine (and specifically the PoS on that premine) for c0 will forever hold it back. Your loss. Same old. |
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Dev has already made it clear: register your bitcointalk profile and a vlaid email address for the airdrop. Stop whinning about it and do it and see what happens. Good luck to all.
Sorry, I seem to have got the wrong impression. I thought this was a serious coin for young upcoming devs to work and be paid, maybe even a few oldie devs, if they can deliver. I thought it was run by a company who wanted to include all. Now, due to my effort in analysis, I should stop "whinging". If anyone want to offer real counter argument, I will read. With interest. This (above post) is just bs in this situation. The (probable/debatable) outcome doesn't match the brief here! If the team here want to offer me airdrop coin, I'm listening... |
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I'm not sure why people attack this thread and project.
But I'll be on the look.
You don't understand the argument? I'm not attacking anything, I'm discussing what will likely/possably happen. If you see my thoughts as an attack, to a decentralised crypto, in open development, then you don't understand open or decentralised. IMO No offence shapetwist, grumpy night. |
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I would be kinda surprised if they actually get 5000 (legitimate) registrants. Would be interesting to know how close they are and get to hitting that goal/limit.
Weather you will be surprised or not has little bearing on the outcome. Would it be "interesting" to know how close they are to 5000, or "necessary" to know, so as to keep the wool from ones eyes? Seriously, am I too late to participate in the airdrop here? Why don't you apply and wait to see instead of whining about it? I am applying now, if I'm not too late?They had to draw the line somewhere. Did they have to? If you can't get the airdrop any more, too bad. You had plenty of time to sign up / DYOR. Can't I get the airdrop now , it's unclear?I'm sure there will be plenty of people selling their airdrops, and I can't wait to improve my position...significantly. I'm sure there will. I thought the point of this coin was different? |
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It's really an important question?
Is it still important on this new page? [he tries again]  Does "if at first you don't succeed, try, try again" apply here? Clearly not a Homer quote (Simpson). It would appear to apply to your post. But more generally on this forum, does that principle still apply? |
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I would be kinda surprised if they actually get 5000 (legitimate) registrants. Would be interesting to know how close they are and get to hitting that goal/limit.
Weather you will be surprised or not has little bearing on the outcome. Would it be "interesting" to know how close they are to 5000, or "necessary" to know, so as to keep the wool from ones eyes? Seriously, am I too late to participate in the airdrop here? |
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Thanks for taking the time to reply Bruce. 1) find out what happened in some situation This is what I am also promoting. But, do we know what happened? We know the money/BTC have gone,we know the ex board are gone. We (edit - I) don't know why, officially, more legally, all has gone. (do we know if there was criminal/misappropriation without an audit, I am not clear? makes a big difference , to me.) Though you will not stand in the way of an audit, I suggested you more embrace an audit, (pending funding/others time) I take that as a no. Can you/TBF not focus on Bitcoin/moving TBF forward in conjunction with an audit? I don't really see much crossover. Edit. Indeed, Would an audit not give some "credibility" to carry on? If you donated $10,000 to TBF it is wasted money, ATM, IMO. Without an audit. (unless we know no criminal or misappropriation took place without?) Hope you appreciate it's just my (intended) friendly feedback here, I'm just banging my drum. I personally wish you luck in your endeavours here. But my wishes for TBF are different. They are conditional. Thanks for you time. |
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Have I missed the airdrop?
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It's really an important question?
Is it still important on this new page? [he tries again] |
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Decred,
Why 5000 airdrop participants only?
What if there are 5059 GOOD applicants?
What process do you have to eject 59 GOOD, (but not needed) applicants?
How many applicants do you have now?
(this has been asked, but us lesser soles are not privvy too, in this equal to all project)
What effect will a lack of successful applicants have on the c0 centralisation effect, and PoS rewards, amongst other things?
Under what circumstance will less than 5000 applicants be included in the airdrop?
How can the (presumed) 5000 successful applicant be verified by us to be real individuals?
Do we have to trust you to tell us the truth on that?
All questions that would be asked of Bitcoins' governance?
Looks like TRUST is introduced? This is until now the "hidden stuff" about decred. Airdrop. Devs seems responding to all question very quick with very succesful answers. But, but, but, every times community asking about partecipants number they always answers in differents ways without real numbers. I would like to think that reaching 5k real user with proven skils is impossible. But,here community is asking how many partecipants so far have been applied to airdrop, so,why devs never give us a number about that? You surely hot a DB with all email inserted, so, please open that db and give to community a number up to now. I think is a very easy stuff that will take 1 minute to do it. am i wrong? By the way i'm not worried about that. Premine address is public like the 10%, so, i'm sure that dev will not sell a single decred for first year at least, since they are going to say that value after first year will reach 1 usd each at least. Which dev is going to sell coins at low price when they know that value will encrease over years? Look's like TRUST is introduced? |
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Decred,
Why 5000 airdrop participants only?
What if there are 5059 GOOD applicants?
What process do you have to eject 59 GOOD, (but not needed) applicants?
How many applicants do you have now?
(this has been asked, but us lesser soles are not privvy too, in this equal to all project)
What effect will a lack of successful applicants have on the c0 centralisation effect, and PoS rewards, amongst other things?
Under what circumstance will less than 5000 applicants be included in the airdrop?
How can the (presumed) 5000 successful applicant be verified by us to be real individuals?
Do we have to trust you to tell us the truth on that?
All questions that would be asked of Bitcoins' governance?
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Not looking good for Neucoin. No buy support anymore and price keeps tanking.
Anyone hodling this?
Yeah Timeline, no replies. Guess that answers your question? Haha Luckily I sold my free coins before price went drastically down, at least I got something and it wass free.  That's cool. Are all ALT's just one big game? |
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Not looking good for Neucoin. No buy support anymore and price keeps tanking.
Anyone hodling this?
Yeah Timeline, no replies. Guess that answers your question? |
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who is Mireille Mathieu?
how cant you know the famous french singer? What of the other questions after Is this where the thread takes a quantum leap of faith? |
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I guess i best reply to this, then, so not to clog the thread disproportionally, I'll try to just watch a day or two.
There is no fundermental misunderstanding. I do not believe dcred an attack on bitcoin as such, more an attack on decentralisation/equality due to massive % of "total" dcreds held by c0 in 1 year. I don't think everything new is a threat, but then there is nothing new in (a company) trying to take such vast (potential)future profit/power. I appreciate any contribution to Bitcoin made by c0, past and future, thankyou. I understand no claim of perfect has been made, but (imo) the stake held by c0 will prevent any real, long term, growth (perfect). c0 will hold all the real mass profit.
I would not suggest anyone follow Bitcoin blindly, I always recommend research, as I would here. Funny how $82 can warp ones' oppinion though.
Who said Decred was worth anything? I understand the value will be set by the market, not ones' opinion If decred is "not worth anything", how will the devs earn a living? (devs paid in decred will need to sell to eat I presume) p14 (270) beyondtext While I understand that you may feel 10% is too high a rate, as someone who has funded a lot of development work over the past 5 years, I disagree with your assessment. At a 10% subsidy rate, the dev organization will accumulate approximately 302,000 decred during its first year. If we assume the value of 1 decred averages to USD 1.00 over the first year, this means we'll have USD 302K to spend on development work. This is a small amount of funding and can pay for 3-4 full time developers for 1 year, so if we went below 10% dev subsidy it would mean the project cannot fund itself unless its exchange rate is well over USD 1.00 per decred. So, as we see, Beyondtext assumes $1 average in year 1. (presumably starting at $0.49, finishing the year at $1.50?) That presumption allows Beyondtext to pay 3-4 devs. If in fact the price remains at, or lower, than $0.49, that only pays maybe 2 devs or less. p25 488 ingsoc This begs the question though, and it's a serious one, what's the alternative for a new dev in the future? Work on Bitcoin and get paid nothing? Or work in a system where you get compensated for innovation and contributions that feed back into Bitcoin as well? I know that's biased, but So when ingsoc says "new dev work BTC for free or work here for pay...." maybe only 1 dev need apply! Not so ground breaking. Edit, just noticed ingsoc does say "A new dev in future" - singular (Also worth considering on this subject is that work will need doing, submitting, voting, implementing ect, before any payment? My point, it will be hard for any dev to plan/live of of this. A lot of risk of project rejection? Also the DHG is not an ideal entity for payment Edit. Also, if a lot of work is done by competing devs, but price doesn't rise, devs will go unpaid/underpaid. Equating to a massive risk dev work goes unrewarded/underrewarded when/if implemented, benefiting the "freeloader" not the dev. Same as Bitcoin?) BTW I dont disagree with the 10% block reward to pay devs whatsoever. I quite like it. I am just wondering the impact this will make on the project, in relation to the 4% premine c0 hold impact on the project. The scope of the 10% dev reward block can be changed over time. The premine cannot. It gives an immediate dominance to a company/single entity. So, if the "accepted (Beyondtext) sustainable dev/price ratio" is (ie) 3-4 dev @ $1 average yr 1, then c0 really has 2x return on "up front invesrment cost" = 840k or, if the "accepted sustainable dev/price ratio" is (ie) 1-2 dev @ $0.49. then c0 really get 1x return on up front investment cost" = 420k So (to move on below) we need a consensus on how many devs are needed/expected/required? (I read 3-4 min? maybe not such a project if only supporting 1 dev?) Anyway, if the price does need to be higher (than 0.49) to support the expected dev numbers, this should be clearer. So now the PoS yr1. c0 recieve ~ 450k coin, passively, for nothing other than they started this "controlled by all" project. That is another 2% of all decred coin produced, ever. And on it goes, year after year.(at least in the "good return" early years) c0 claim they only want their investment back, yet are rewarded, massively, thereafter. IMO, c0 PoS reward should be diverted to the dev fund. That would be fairer, (supporting devs more ect.) that is how this coin should be structured. This is the usual massive profit/power model here. Wake up people, we've seen it all before. I could really use $80 of BTC though.... Edit. And in immidiate response to my detailed, potentially productive, hard thought (though negative) analysis, two blinged up hero members step in to profit from the next p&d game..... vvv vvv vvv |
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