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1941  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Bitcoin Show on OnlyOneTV.com on: September 08, 2011, 08:03:43 AM
Amazingly.. he appears to be continuing with the show:

Quote
http://groups.google.com/group/bitcoinpeople/browse_thread/thread/a5a9ea1839827e9

We just taped a great Bitcoin Show.

It was all about the serious legal issues around Bitcoin.

I gave my guest "final cut" right.   So after he views it tonight, I'm sure
we'll upload it tomorrow.

:-)

Only Love,

Bruce


Can he be unaware of the lack of community support he now has?  Does he just not care???



1942  Economy / Collectibles / Re: CASASCIUS PHYSICAL BITCOIN - In Stock Now! (pic) on: September 08, 2011, 07:20:26 AM
Nice job on the coins, they are cool. However the trust factor is way to high. I went down this road myself when I created the gold plated CoinBit http://CoinedBits.com.

The original consumer has to trust that Casascius isn't selling them a zero value coin. The circle of trust then gets wider if the original consumer tries to trade the coin. The second person receiving the coin now has no way of verifying the coin originated from Casascius.

Counterfeiting this coin would not be difficult, and would be extremely lucrative if the Casascius coin gained adoption.

This is why I ended up keeping the CoinBit as a novelty or souvenir coin.

If your CoinedBits had a flat surface about an inch in diameter on them, they could be made to contain bitcoins and people would still happily buy them.

If someone wanted to throw resources at counterfeiting the coin, seeing as people are already willing to pay a 25% premium and shipping on top of that to acquire the coins, why wouldn't they just throw those same resources at legitimate coins and not risk getting their cover blown?  One could just as well counterfeit Bitbills or FRN's.  Further, people are going to be peeling and redeeming a percentage of the coins... until people start complaining in the forums about the existence of counterfeit Casascius bitcoins, for the time being, one can be pretty sure that the Casascius hologram is an accurate indicator of origin.

It would be more profitable to counterfeit the coin than to make a legit coin.

You identified the problem when you said "for the time being". It wouldn't take long for people's trust in the coin to falter.

Some of this could be reduced with the assistance of a website application which allowed public reporting of coin location by date. (postcode or equivalent)
Phone-apps could be used to quickly scan the public key and check not only that the value exists in the block chain - but to semi-automatically report where the coin is.
e.g push a button that says 'yes - report coin was here now' and the phone uses it's geolocation magic to do it (for some user-determined vagueness of 'here' and 'now')

Some people may have no interest in doing that for privacy reasons - but it could be fun to see where a coin has been.  If you see from the history that the coin was supposedly somewhere that you know it couldn't have been at the time (or already flagged as suspicious due to failed redemption of same code) - you should refuse to accept it - or if too late for that, immediately attempt to redeem the coin on the blockchain and report it if it fails.
Any other people scanning a coin with the same public key would then know also to attempt redemption (or to quickly risk passing it off if they're dishonest!)

Any large scale counterfeiting operation would need to have legitimate public keys still showing value on the blockchain - so if even a few users and especially point-of-sale systems used the casascius website verification app - the profitability and therefore motivation for the counterfeiting would be significantly smaller.

Sound reasonable?
It might be open to some trolling by false reports - but people would have to have come into contact with the coin to learn it's public key to do that I assume.


EDIT:
oh, I just noticed this:

... I'm willing to pgp sign a list of all the Bitcoin addresses used in this project.

That would scupper my idea above.  If it's possible for the public to determine a complete list of coins - then false reporting by counterfeiters/jokesters would be a problem.








1943  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Bullion Project on: September 08, 2011, 06:26:31 AM
Dude I love your idea you should totally do it. I don't get where the coins would be stored or do you stand by ready to send them when they send the code? that part confuses me. The gold bar with shiny stuff on it and bitcoins associated with it sounds great, though.

The coins are on the blockchain - the code represents the private key needed to spend them.  They are completely independent of me.  Anyone with the code can spend the coin(s).  The private key has a mathematical relationship to the bitcoin address that the bitcoin client recognizes.  You import the key into your wallet and the balance automatically appears.  Right now, support for importing keys isn't that great, must be done from the command line using the pywallet utility or a patched client - it takes a little bit of technical know-how to make it happen, but I am convinced that future bitcoin clients and websites will support direct entry of private key codes by users.

So you actually have it figured out. There is more potential than you might expect with the keys thing. You could basically sell Bitcoin gift cards with that. A new kind of exchange that would allow a transaction in the physical world to purchase bitcoins. very exciting.

I imagine the killer app along these lines would be something using the same system as a lottery scratch-ticket.  Surely the premium on those would be small.
Getting those for sale at newsagents and having a mobile phone app that allowed instant import would be amazing.

1944  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [Relax] - A todo list of Cryptocurrencies on: September 08, 2011, 06:17:54 AM
WhAt aRe tHe rUlez oF tHiS buTt C0iN??
Iz iT saFe / sEcUrE / sOliD??

Buttcoin is soiled by design - whereas solidcoin just soiled itself.
1945  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: September 7th - 10pm GMT on: September 08, 2011, 06:13:59 AM
Don't forget to let it have a cool name like "shadowcoin" 
- actually I kinda hope that one gets used for some chain with even more anonymity and underground appeal - even if just to take the heat off bitcoin Wink

ix, i0 were too boring
solidcoin was too wanky even before we knew it was run by a wanker.


ok.. in seriousness I don't know what makes a great name, but I'm guessing it won't be 'kungfucoin'.
So does this one even have a name yet?

1946  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Bullion Project on: September 08, 2011, 05:41:31 AM
I think it'd be nice if you shipped these with a little certificate (to also be available on your website) that basically acts as a contract showing your business identity and detailing what your part of the deal is as far as loading the BTC value without keeping a copy etc.

It's fine for those of us on the forums who already have trust in you to take it as a reasonable bet that it wouldn't serve your interests to act contrary to your postings on the forum, but for more general appeal (e.g if we want to sell them on as is) some sort of document indicating your processes (and who the legally responsible entity is for any demonstrated violation of them is) would be ideal.
1947  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why a physical bitcoin? on: September 08, 2011, 05:31:34 AM
These are cool, but I'm curious why people feel the need to have a tangible bitcoin.  To me it kind of reminds me how early autos were made to look like horse drawn buggies.  I get the need for some people to have a physical way of securing bitcoins because of the current usability issues with doing that digitally, but aside from that and the novelty aspect, what is compelling about them?  For me, one of the great advantages of bitcoin is that it does away with the need for such a physical manifestation of a token (while not losing some important properties of physical token).

Steve, have you ever collected art or had a coin collection when you were a kid?
Yes, I get that and that's reason enough...I was just wondering whether people had more utilitarian reasons for wanting them.


One reason is just as a talking point when introducing people to bitcoin.
I already carry a few bitbills around in my pocket - having a casascius bitcoin as well will help make it clear that there is no central issuer and that the value is all in the private key.

I'm also giving a few to family as gifts.  While it would be easy to give them a thumb-drive and password etc - that's just not going to have any impact.
A physical representation of a bitcoin will be something people are far more likely to enjoy and keep safe and it will possibly get some of them interested in the concepts behind bitcoin.


1948  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Hows the bitcoin ATM doing since bitbills is MIA? on: September 08, 2011, 05:21:48 AM
I've also been wondering about bitbills.
I ordered just before the mybitcoin problem and got mine ok, but I do wonder if they were hit hard by this issue and weren't able to fulfill all the affected orders?

If so, I hope they approach some bitcoin community member(s) with deep BTC pockets with a view to investing to get them through this.

Anyway - a public statement from bitbills is long overdue.
 
1949  Other / Off-topic / Re: I Manufacture machines that generate free electricity. A match made in heaven? on: September 08, 2011, 05:13:16 AM
Right now we are trying to raise the necesary funds to build our factory..

So now you have *2* methods to raise funds without asking people.
1) sell electricity to the grid
2) use your 'free' electricity to generate bitcoins.

It just got that much harder to feel sorry for your victims.  
Just because people who give you any money are stupid doesn't let you off the hook though.
I hope you get locked up!

1950  Economy / Speculation / Re: When does trading happen the most? on: September 08, 2011, 04:59:04 AM
I'd just like to throw in a brief plea here for people to use UTC when talking about times for bitcoin.

It's a global medium - people in these forums are from all over.   EST,EDT etc don't mean jack to most people.
(And are in fact ambiguous as for example EST is used here in Australia and I suspect more than one other country - they are obviously not the same timezone.)

UTC is a reference point we can all work from.

1951  Economy / Speculation / Re: We've stablized the currency of bitcoins! on: September 08, 2011, 04:52:52 AM
It's $7.11 per coin.

It's not going up.  Not going down.  Been like this all day with only slight variations.

Good news everybody!

This raises the question..  what would it take for the general perception to be that it's 'stable'
Even if it were to go for a period of 6months varying by less than 1%  - I'm sure there would be plenty of people still bearing in mind that it could still be subject to a big selloff or spike.
Ultimately I think it'd need a combination of obvious heavy usage around the world, and a stable price for over a year before I'd be truly comfortable saying it had 'stabilized'.
1952  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Bullion Project on: September 08, 2011, 04:15:31 AM
I would like to put out some feelers for a project I am considering alongside my physical bitcoins: Bitcoin Bullion.

Bitcoin Bullion is a gold-plated brick that is fashioned to look like a gold bar, but says on it, 100 BTC, has the bitcoin logo, and "14k plated".  In addition, there would be a hologram just like my physical bitcoins, beneath it is a private key encumbering 100 BTC with the bitcoin address on the outside.  Unlike on the coins, the hologram would be covered with a polyacrylate coating that would have to be dug through a little more aggressively to remove the sticker.

This bar would be plated with real gold.  They would be a fantastic (not to mention good looking) way for someone to physically store bitcoins in a safe.

Question is, is this worth my while?  Who'd be interested?  I would have to charge a premium of about $25 to $30 per bar for this to be worthwhile.  The bar would be about 3 1/2 inches long by 1 3/4 inches wide, and about a quarter inch thick.  They would weigh about 1/3 lb each.

A bar of solid gold in the same size would be about 13 ounces.  100 BTC is clearly not worth the same as 13 oz gold today, but there's no better way to dress your BTC for success.

I'm not immediately interested.. but might be in 6 months or so.
I wonder though - do you have any information on the longevity risks of the paper/ink used for the private key?
Is it specifically 'archival quality' ink?   While I'm *fairly* confident almost any ink you get nowdays will be ok for decades - one wonders if it's possible to get a batch of cheap ink that somehow degrades relatively quickly.

I also wonder how much risk there is for someone to damage the private key whilst 'a little more aggressively' digging through the coating.
Optimally I suppose it would be designed such that is reasonably hard to get wrong, but also takes as long as possible, so that the physicality of the thing acts as a slight encumbrance to quick theft. 
It should be much more convenient to grab the bar(s) and run than to peel&reveal to the blockchain via smartphone prepared with key-handling software.

Well.. perhaps that's just a 'nice to have'.  They're still cool as a collectible and/or satisfyingly tangible offline storage!





1953  Bitcoin / Press / Re: Bitcoin press hits, notable sources on: September 07, 2011, 03:57:37 PM
Quote
First German marketplace for Bitcoins - bitcoin.de provides security for trading partners

2011-09-07

http://www.fair-news.de/news/Erster+deutscher+Marktplatz+fuer+Bitcoins+bitcoinde+bietet+Sicherheit+fuer+Handelspartner-429983.html


http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fair-news.de%2Fnews%2FErster%2Bdeutscher%2BMarktplatz%2Bfuer%2BBitcoins%2Bbitcoinde%2Bbietet%2BSicherheit%2Bfuer%2BHandelspartner-429983.html&act=url


"Buy and Sell Bitcoins was previously possible only through market places and exchanges abroad. As the first German marketplace allows users bitcoin.de especially German exchange and trade of Bitcoins."

www.bitcoin.de
1954  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why a physical bitcoin? on: September 07, 2011, 03:29:30 PM
If anybody has a serious interest in producing physical bitcoins and is willing to invest $2k on their own holograms (the hologram people will do all the art and everything for you, I'll offer a referral), I would be willing to share some of my brass coin blanks at my cost (for which I received a decent quantity discount, and which will be cheaper if you went and had your own done in a smaller quantity, especially after considering the custom die and artwork charges).  

Hmm.  I don't think I like that much.
I guess it wouldn't be that hard for someone to counterfeit the brass coin itself.. but It seems odd to me that you'd encourage some other provider to produce something that looks extremely similar.  Do you mean that the brass coin itself would be identical, and only the hologram would indicate who the coin loader was?


1955  Bitcoin / Press / Re: Bitcoin press hits, notable sources on: September 07, 2011, 02:49:59 PM
From a US marketing firm for credit unions.

This is yet another commentator who seems to draw conclusions of where bitcoins are headed based on the recent price decline.


Quote
The end of money?

2011-09-07
Kent Dicken

http://www.sharedidiz.com/?p=8551

"As the Bitcoin enthusiasts lose their enthusiasm, it looks like Bitcoins will simply fade away."




iDiz:
Quote
For those of you new to iDiz, we're a strategic marketing agency located in Indianapolis. We handle advertising, promotional campaigns, web sites, branding, print, and more for credit unions all across the country that are ready to grow
1956  Other / Off-topic / Re: nanaimogold's opinion on homosexuality on: September 07, 2011, 01:57:54 PM
When I see a pair of female breasts, I'm instantly attracted to them. Sometimes it's hard to think about anything else but those lovely breasts. It's not something I've decided on. I didn't wake up one morning and say "Hey, I think I'll give breasts a try." It's just how I was born. The same thing applies to homosexuals. If they see a hairy ass or some muscular dude or whatever, and are instantly attracted, there's nothing they can do about it. Obviously, they don't have to act on those attractions, just like I don't have to motorboat titties, but being heterosexual is just as automatic as being homosexual. It's not a sin. It's not a choice. It wouldn't even be something worth commenting on if people like nanaimogold didn't exist. If heterosexuals wouldn't make such a big deal about it, neither would homosexuals. You wouldn't have all this "we're here, we're queer" stuff. It would be unremarkable. That's all I really wanted to say. Carry on.

We hear this all the time.  Like having automatic attraction that 'isn't a choice' somehow makes it o.k.

So are you asserting that if someone feels an attraction "without choice", it's fine for them to act on that attraction and live their life in that way?

I'll bite.. and assert it within the constraints placed by consent. 
Consent being something society quite rightly decides can only be given by those above a certain age.

Are you asserting it's somehow not ok for consenting partners to act on their attraction in whatever way they enjoy that doesn't harm others?
1957  Bitcoin / Press / Re: Bitcoin press hits, notable sources on: September 07, 2011, 01:30:37 PM
Someone at businessinsider decides to put words in Krugman's mouth with a misleading title on their shoddy little meta-article.

Quote
Paul Krugman Explains Why Bitcoin Is A Stupid Currency

Joe Weisenthal
2011-09-07

http://www.businessinsider.com/paul-krugman-on-bitcoin-2011-9
1958  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Ruxum exchange implements integrated mining pool, real threat to bitcoin network on: September 07, 2011, 06:34:47 AM
Exchanges don't need to partner with existing pools to do this.  All it would take is for one exchange to add a new API call to send BTC to a specified account name, along with an option to immediately sell those BTC for fiat.  Once this happens, every pool would have access to it, and we're back to business as usual.

Now that I think about it, this would be excellent for merchants too.

But you can already do this with mtgox.
The deposit address remains valid for multiple deposits.
You can put in a huge standing sell order for the minimum you'll accept for BTC  - as soon as your coins arrive mtgox will sell at whatever the current price is.

How is that different to what you mention above?

1959  Bitcoin / Press / Re: Bitcoin press hits, notable sources on: September 07, 2011, 05:06:08 AM
Quote
1960  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: September 7th - 10pm GMT on: September 07, 2011, 02:12:17 AM
Bounties are in BTC because if the money doesn't succeed the bounties will be worth nothing whereas the guys did make the work

Now that's some humility and practicality right there.
Exactly the sort of thing we would never get from the originator of SC.

While you could argue that this is a case of not eating ones own dogfood...  I think it's just sensible bootstrapping.

I've no idea if this chain will be worth any attention (I'm a little wary of the claims re some new double-spending algorithm)
but at least the attitude seems to be reasonable so far!

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