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1601  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: A _new_ currency has to be fair on: December 11, 2011, 06:31:29 PM
I hear the following statement alot: Bitcoin is pure capitalism, it isn't supposed to be fair.

People who acquired alot of Bitcoins without much effort are supposed to deserve it because they got in early / had alot of spare fiat or generated them before the public knew about it.
I do not have this opinion for the following reason:

Bitcoin wasn't a currency until the first products and services were offered for it. Also it is supposed to be a chicken and the egg problem which I think it is not: You can start a working economy 0-second, once you gathered enough people willing to participate.


This is the main reason why I still doubt bitcoins success (or think it is likely to fail once there is an alternative to it)
And, quite frankly if some people would adopt my suggestion in practice bitcoins intended purpose would be obsolete, and it's current state of existence a sophisticated gambling system would loose it's merit once people realize rapid economic growth is indeed possible.

I'm not understanding your argument.  (nor what 'adopt my suggestion' refers to above).
Can you restate it somewhat?

You seem to be saying that a large number of participants who agree to use it is the primary requirement and that this is a relatively easy hurdle(?)
Are you saying the lack of 'fairness' (whether real or just perceived) is going to be a showstopper to widespread adoption, and so a new currency with the attribute of apparent fairness will rapidly overtake it?

It's not obvious to me that a cryptocurrency with more fairness is ever likely to arise.
I recognise that in effect, massive adoption of bitcoin would result in a wealth transfer from the existing global economy to a large number of individuals who didn't contribute a comparable amount of economic activity in return.. but It's also not clear to me that this wealth transfer is anything more than a blip in the scheme of things considering the scale of the global economy.
People win lotteries, both win and lose big-time in gambling, and inherit massive amounts all the time. Those 'unfair' wealth transfers don't seem to be a major issue.. so what is the beef with bitcoin 'unfairness' anyway?  

It's a psychological barrier to mass uptake?  I hardly think so, as people will be acting to maximize their own returns more than worrying about whether someone else got a windfall surely.
I've probably completely misunderstood your argument though - hence my appeal for clarification.








1602  Economy / Speculation / Re: $3.20 in one big buy? on: December 11, 2011, 05:17:26 PM
granted there are various ways to make that calculation depending on how bullish you are but surely one way is to take US money supply and divide by 21 million. Smiley

Oh boy.

If you think that will happen you better set aside 1/3 of you coins, cuz you'll need them to pay the mercs.  Roll Eyes

By the time 1 BTC could buy a small car, most of us will have let many if not most of our coins slip out of our hands at various points on the way up.
Unfortunately, I think the time-scales for this sort of thing will mean I'll have to hope for some serious advances in human life extension technology in order to see this!

edit: but if it does come sooner..  I'll be investing some of that bitcoin wealth in 'Aubrey de Grey'-style research anyway Smiley
1603  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Had a dream about BTC prices... on: December 11, 2011, 01:52:49 PM
haha i had the same dream couple nights ago. Bitcoin had gone up to $60 and we were all millionaires

Damn you must have a lot of bitcoins!
1604  Economy / Speculation / Re: Just broke 3! on: December 11, 2011, 01:50:25 PM
Well my statement earlier today is total crap.  Here we are with two giant rallies above 3.00

Bitcoin tends to prove most people wrong about most things.  Cool

I'm fairly sure Bitcoin is a perfectly good substitute for a nice hot cup of tea when creating an Infinite Improbability Drive... and I'm probably not wrong about that.

1605  Economy / Speculation / Re: The Bitcoin Sentiment Indicator on: December 11, 2011, 01:15:36 PM

'All Time High' sounds like a shot way too far... there are surely enough people burned by past highs to do some pretty heavy selling into any irrational exhuberance..   but I wouldn't be surprised to see it sneak past $4 this week before settling a bit.
1606  Bitcoin / Press / Re: Bitcoin press hits, notable sources on: December 11, 2011, 06:12:46 AM
This is a little late, but doesn't seem to have been reported here back in October.

Just one mention in this document, and it's a strange one.
What on earth do they mean by 'digital anonymous currency often double spent' ??
I hope this is just a mistake in the document and doesn't reflect the level of (mis)understanding that law enforcement types have about Bitcoin.


Quote
Michigan Cyber Summit 2011
Hosted By Michigan Governor Rick Snyder
Track #4 - Law Enforcement
Stopping Cybercriminals and Cyberterrorists in Their Tracks

2011-10-07

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/cybersecurity/Stopping_Cybercriminals_Panel_FINAL_367497_7.pdf

"Do you have any suggestions as to how law
enforcement can more effectively combat
BitCoin (digital anonymous currency often
double spent) and Zeus/SpyEye (a banking
Trojan middleman) attacks?"
1607  Bitcoin / Press / Re: Bitcoin press hits, notable sources on: December 11, 2011, 03:13:00 AM
Quote
the oddly familiar world of bitcoin economics

2011-12-10
Greg Fish

http://worldofweirdthings.com/2011/12/10/the-oddly-familiar-world-of-bitcoin-economics/


About Greg Fish:
"Greg Fish is a computer science grad student and science blogger whose work appears on BusinessWeek, Discovery News and The Panda’s Thumb, and featured on Bad Astronomy, SEED, and io9. He specializes in writing about unusual cutting edge science and promoting skepticism and sound scientific education."


Discussion thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54390.0
1608  Other / Meta / Re: "Position: SCAMMER"... wtf? on: December 10, 2011, 10:20:09 AM
So did you learn from those business decisions?  Will you make the same mistake again?
I wouldn't've started this whole shebang had I known what was coming. On the other hand, I still refuse to refund my customers.

Could you please give us some insight into why you refuse to refund them?
1609  Bitcoin / Press / Re: Bitcoin press hits, notable sources on: December 09, 2011, 02:36:59 AM
This is a bit of a preliminary 'hit' - This academic legal paper is apparently being submitted to 'Several Tech. and Economic Law journals',
so please report if/when you see it cited or in other contexts.

Quote
Bitcoin: Tempering the Digital Ring of Gyges or Implausible Pecuniary Privacy

Matthew Elias
2011-10-03    (revised/released 2011-12-07)

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1937769

Bitcoin is a product of the internet, and therefore bears an intimate relationship to level of
anonymity one is able to obtain therein. Functionally ineffective regulation directed at the
internet and its subsidiary technologies may continue into the foreseeable future. As it relates to
Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies generally, regulation should strive mediate the ongoing melding of
the internet and money as mediums of communication
...

discussion thread here:
'[Available for Download] Academic legal paper re: Bitcoin & Anonymity'
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=40783.0
1610  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin savings plan on: December 08, 2011, 08:29:09 AM
well the heck is the 0 option, if you decide not to save?HuhHuh
What kind of poll is this.

Well it also doesn't have options for those who are gradually selling out of their BTC hoardings.
It seems reasonable that zero or less don't qualify as 'savings' so aren't being surveyed.
1611  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / wakingupmovie - donate bitcoins for a movie which predicts the end of money on: December 07, 2011, 05:06:23 AM
This looks like quite a cute concept for a movie http://www.wakingupmovie.com/

It hit my radar because today they've just started accepting bitcoin for donations: http://www.wakingupmovie.com/2011/12/bitcoin-donations/

In the clip the woman in the future is confused by the term 'expensive' as money no longer exists Wink

1612  Bitcoin / Press / Re: Bitcoin press hits, notable sources on: December 07, 2011, 12:01:12 AM

Quote
Bitcoin for beginners, Part 2: Bitcoin as a technology and network

Dirk Merkel
2011-12-06


http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-12-2011/111206-bitcoin-for-beginners-part-2.html
1613  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin the enabler - Truly Autonomous Software Agents roaming the net on: December 06, 2011, 06:09:05 PM
i can see the skynet comming...

Yeah.. when autonomous software agents start ordering physical components to put in racks and then designing their own data centers it could start to freak people out!
(but, they'll probably have worked out by then how to buy fake human IDs  - so it mightn't be obvious it's happening for a while)



1614  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin the enabler - Truly Autonomous Software Agents roaming the net on: December 06, 2011, 05:57:26 PM
...and someone, posing himself as hosting provider, can collect them and scrape for their private keys Smiley
(or modify public keys)

You're right that there would ultimately be a strong incentive for memory/cpu service providers to reverse-engineer and monitor memory for keys, but I suspect there are ways around this.
It may be that trusting any one provider with too much is a serious hazard for agents.  
(actually no agent would ever want to be running entirely on one system anyway as a simple shutdown might kill it)
Some sort of split-key system might work there, or it might require some of the new bitcoin scripting features.

Agents might need to share information on 'cause of death' and investigate(well.. at least monitor/record) each other's 'murders' and any pillaging by hosts - thus forming a sort of reputation system for service providers.




1615  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [BOUNTY] What can I buy for 1 BTC? on: December 06, 2011, 05:05:28 PM
Someone pin this thread.

Now that could be interesting. A record of the change in purchasing power of 1BTC over the years Smiley
1616  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Bitcoin the enabler - Truly Autonomous Software Agents roaming the net on: December 06, 2011, 04:58:06 PM
I think this one may take a little while to materialize - but simple versions could appear once there are enough for-bitcoin hosting/cloud services.

For the first time, there exists the possibility for a software agent to roam the internet with it's own wallet.
Using Bitcoin - It could purchase the resources it needs to survive (hosting/cpu/memory) and sell services to other agents or to humans.

To be truly effective and survive 'out there on the net' long term, you'd probably need some basic AI and the ability to move itself between service providers occasionally - but even a relatively dumb agent might survive for a while.

What initial goals such agents might be given is anyone's guess. Funneling back to the programmer any profit  over and above what the agent needs to survive would be the obvious case, and of course many such agents might be considered 'nefarious' depending on how they're programmed to achieve that goal.  Other agents might be designed to provide free services or act in a way to support some piece of internet infrastructure.

A really interesting development would be if someone released a bunch of these things with a Genetic Algorithm component so that they 'bred' with each other in order to find the best balance between profit and durability.

Anyone know of examples of people discussing or working on this?  
1617  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [BOUNTY] What can I buy for 1 BTC? on: December 06, 2011, 03:14:10 PM
http://bitbrew.net/guatemala-joe/   and a few other 12-oz packs of coffee for under 2BTC.  Not sure about shipping cost - but may be within budget for Americans at least I imagine.
1618  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: OPERATION: What is Bitcoin? - A Massive Bitcoin Twitter Campaign on: December 06, 2011, 10:42:25 AM
Godspeed.

How fast is that exactly? As fast as the spread of literacy during the dark ages? Hopefully twitter can manage better than that!?
Nice campaign though.
1619  Economy / Speculation / Re: Looks like the manipulator is failing you guys, muahahahaha on: December 05, 2011, 08:59:29 AM
Looks like the manipualtor stopped using his 50K bidwall,. he is trying to push the market but using much smaller bid walls. I think after his last wall got sold into, he doesn't want to make his bidwall an easy place for early adapters to cash their coins out into.

I think we're seeing the healthy jagged lines of genuine multi-party buyer support at these price levels.
1620  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is bitcoin a banana? No, PRECIOUS BITS (thread went slightly ot) on: December 05, 2011, 07:15:23 AM
'virtual scarcity' is open to the interpretation that it's not quite scarce.

I prefer something like 'Mathematically ensured scarcity' 
or 'Mathematically enshrined scarcity' 

Perhaps bitcoins are 'Globally Ensured Mathematical Scarcity'  or 'Deals In A Money Of Network-Distributed Scarcity'

(sorry.. couldn't help myself)



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