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Haha, how about money to the dumbest luckiest guy, I win that for sure.
I was thinking double meant split. So I doubled my two kings! And hit an ace!
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But if they are changing rapidly in value, U$D is down 10% yoy to gold for last 10 years ... and that will likely be accelerating in the near future as the money printed the last 3 years blows the system apart, then why keep using a useless measuring stick?
Because everyone knows TODAY what USD will buy TODAY. It's understandable, changing as it may be. No one knows what 683 ounces of gold will buy. Everyone knows what $1M will buy. Whether $1M will buy the same amount of stuff a year from now is not relevant to the discussion, because we are talking about purchasing power TODAY, not a year from now. I'd say a lot of people have no idea what a million will buy. Have you seen The Price is Right? People are routinely off by 20%+ when shown ~$50k worth of stuff. Most people probably think that $1M is worth about a million snickers bars. I don't disagree that people think they know what money is worth, but that's largely an illusion that comes from being around it all the time. Valuing things correctly even in the familiar dollar is not trivial. What is trivial is doing a division from the known market rate of gold or BTC and then doing the hard part. |
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It costs .5 before each game that you want to count, right?
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The ISP support said: It's largely a TCP option flood. We are making adjustments to mitigate this and the smaller miscellaneous attacks also targeting the site, it should come online shortly. What was the actual reason for btcex's DDoSing you ? Does he claim that you speculate/manipulate market or what ? The guy who mailed me requests to pay him $7000 (yep, got $2000 more because I reported him) first told me he wants rates down, then told me he needs the money. This is ridiculous. It's really unfortunate that this guy doesn't get economics as well as DDoSing. |
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but to be a real currency in itself, merchants and consumers would need to be thinking in BTCs and not constantly converting it to a local currency. this can only happen if merchants expenses are in BTCs and consumers costs-of-living are also paid in BTCs. (Another major hurdle is paying taxes in BTCs)
I played poker today for dollars in a 'legitimate' establishment and had a pretty good day. As I was coming home I thought "damn, that's not even 200BTC" Does that count for anything? |
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You don't get everything. In fact you get almost nothing. You can rewrite recent blocks which just means that you can unpay coins you already had control of. Or you could refuse to put transactions in blocks or to build off of anyone who does effectively a DOS. But you don't get $20M by any means.
How about if someone with a lot of bitcoins rented a machine like that out for a short period? You could then cash in on the bitcoins several times over? What would/could happen to bitcoins after such an attack? It depends on how much of what sort of things are being offered and on what terms. You probably shouldn't give things to strangers that are a substantial fraction of the cost of controlling the network. If someone was holding a lot of coins and did a big attack it would probably shake faith in the network and reduce the value of his coins. And he probably can't easily spend them all more than once and pull them back since word will get around fast and the most vulnerable will shutdown or reduce payouts (like ATMs and similar instant stuff). |
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It just seems weird that the total valuation of the currency (20,738,252 USD) is worth ~10x more than the price it might cost to potentially ruin it...?  You don't get everything. In fact you get almost nothing. You can rewrite recent blocks which just means that you can unpay coins you already had control of. Or you could refuse to put transactions in blocks or to build off of anyone who does effectively a DOS. But you don't get $20M by any means. |
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I've been calling bitcoins scarce too, but I realized every resource is scarce to some degree. The difference is that with most things when you get more demand price goes up until the amount supplied is adjusted and then price returns to roughly the cost of production. With bitcoins there is no outlet the supply is inelastic, that's the key. You don't want to store value in carrots or tulips because if you are right and price goes the inevitable increase in supply will bring it back down, guaranteed. Sure you can make money with the right timing and this helps smooth prices too. With bitcoin this does not happen. Well, actually it kind of does. But the cost of production tends toward infinity.
Anyway, my point is just that everything is scarce, but the supply of bitcoins is also inelastic.
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Yes... I was just going to suggest the same thing. I think it should have it's own forum re:domain to be honest.
It's too bad namecoin.org was registered 5 years ago and is now down...
No kidding. Pretty much everything should have it's own forum, but not here. |
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But then consumers won't want to spend bitcoins. They would rather hold them since they are rising and spend fiat currency which is falling.
This would mean people will end up holding no dollars and only bitcoins. And then they spend coins because they want stuff.
Merchants won't bother to offer BTC prices since it will not get enough use.
They will if they want to get Bitcoins, which is a premise. |
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That can be found at bitcoinwatch.
I don't get it.
Google says 1 EUR = 1,4809 USD
Can anyone explain me this?
I just had a look and it looks like it's based on the last Euro exchange at 3.7 on bitmarketEUR. It's technically the correct way to go about it, but of course you have to take it with a grain of salt considering total volume was 25 Euro for the past 24 hours on that market. Not sure where gold comes from, that one looks a bit odd. The gold is probably from bitcoin market pecunix. If all the exchanges had lots of volume people would arbitrage and bring it close, but some have very few trades. |
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Nice, free and natural advertising. Didn't listen yet.
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This is really exciting. Since I'm not in the states, could someone record one of the shows and share it?
Free Talk LiveThey've talked about bitcoin at least 3 times, including about a week ago. |
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Resistance if futile.
The banksters have their hands full propping up their collapsing house of cards, bitcoin is off their radar. imagine halfway through next year, they are in the middle of a war, debt bombs going off everywhere, runs on sovereign bonds, banks going bust, riots in the streets and then BITCOIN shows up on their radar looking like the size of the mothership from planet Nemesis ... it'll be the killer-blow, they're fucked.
Lol +1 It's so not their way of thinking that it'll seem just like aliens landing and taking their jobs. |
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In order to "replace" all the paper currency, it has to be traded ie. exchanged.
Not really. People can just leave it in their sock drawers until it's worth the same as the receipts they've been saving. It doesn't have to get converted.
Maybe I already answered my own question, once the value of BTC rises to the point where it can buy a significant portion of the goods and services offered in a given year, then by definition you have inflation on the paper because it is the same amount of paper chasing an ever shrinking pool of goods and services (the leftover that weren't bought by BTC). At some point the price of the paper falls below its thermal value and people literally burn it. Maybe they run a generator to .... mine more BTC.
I feel like I'm trapped in an Asimov novel.....
Yeah, I think you've got it. I think I'm in the same novel  |
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Interesting brain teaser in the OP. I like these.
Cryonic suspension at warp speed aside, you would not actually replace the paper. If you exchange $4.5T for 21M BTC, the miners end up holding $4.5T of paper currency after unloading their BTC. That's a pretty large briefcase.
As you point out by that time the paper is pretty much worthless, except to burn as heat. So ironically the miners are happy just to get their kWh back. The buyers of BTC don't make out, they just get a 1:1 exchange in buying power. Their only win is they remove the threat of inflation.
In reality there is rougly 10x that amount of money, the rest being in the form of demand deposits or equivalent, which in theory is exchangeble for paper currency in both directions 1:1 (at least in small quantities). What BTC will do to that, who knows.
Humm, head hurting already.
I don't know if you are kidding or what, but miners aren't going to end up holding all the paper currency. They of all people will know when to stop taking it. It'll be the slow, stubborn and patriotic holding the bag. |
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As fantastical as that price sounds if Bitcoin became the only currency of the world I think that one coin would have more value than $214,285 currently has. The reason being that smart people currently minimize the value that they hold in paper currencies for fear of devaluation, but this won't be the case with Bitcoin. It will be the default value holder until you find something good to invest in (like a sweet new burger joint).
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If the old men write it down we'll all obey and bitcoin will go the way of alcohol and marijuana.
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Was going to start a thread about how I want to buy at .75, but I guess I'll just put my offer here. I'm looking for 10kBTC, but partial is fine.
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What's cool about having your savings account on a CD-R in a safety deposit box at the bank is that you can STILL send bitcoins to that wallet! When you go to the bank and get your CD-R and set the wallet up again, all your bitcoins that you sent to that wallet will magically appear. If I ever have lots of bitcoins, that's what I'll do this strategy intrigues me the most. what you're basically saying is that if i have a million btc in my wallet today i could send 999,999 of them to one of my receiving addresses right now but before i receive them i can close the btc client, disconnect my computer from the internet, back up my wallet.dat and encrypt it, go and stick multiple copies of it everywhere,but the bottom line is that all 999,999 btc will be stored in the block chain out on the network ready and waiting for me to download them to my wallet.dat when i want to recover them in 10 yrs or so. is that about right? yes or no answers please. Yep. Get 1M coins. Get another computer. Load Bitcoin on it. Do not connect to internet. Do not download blocks. Write down an address from this wallet. Encrypt wallet. Delete original. Send coins to the address. Wait..... Unencrypt. Spend. are you saying this is a way to double spend? Nope. Just restating the coolness. |
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