How much do private investigators cost anyway ?
Pretty damn cheap, compared to the amount of debt that Pirate is withholding on. But how much of that debt is recoverable? As long as he's alive and able to work, 100% ... and does not declare bankruptcy. I also suspect that the BST lenders are not the only creditors here. For example I would not be surprised if the IRS also has a substantial claim here over withholding taxes for interest payments to non US persons. |
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Securities scares me because in the USA there are strict laws with even TALKING about securities.
I know, I know, Congress is supposed to make no law abridging freedom of speech. I worry that won't stop the SEC from seizing the bitcointalk.org domain name for promoting unlicensed securities.
I think a separate top-level domain for everything under the Marketplace heading would be the right thing to do.
I agree. It is the prudent thing to do. |
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proposition 1A: anyone who replies with this pic from here on out is insta-banned.
which pic? This one: pic deleted +1 |
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I hope this will be available for CAD very quickly!!
+1 |
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except this debt was not denominated in USD. *shrug IANAL and I suspect we are lacking any that are familiar in this area in our community here*
Stephen got part of it right but got a huge part wrong. He is right the interest won't survive in court; It is clearly usurious so that will be struck down quickly. HE is also correct that courts will award damages in USD (legal tender). That doesn't mean Pirate can pay the USD equivalent of when he borrowed. He did borrow BTC (no different than borrowing gold, or say a stock). When paying in legal tender to satisfy a debt owed in other assets (gold, futures contracts, borrowed & shorted stock shares, BTC, etc) the courts would view anything other that repayment at current fair market value as insufficient to satisfy the debt. Of course the debtor can accept a reduced payment but that is a different story. So if I owe you 1 oz of gold I can satisfy that debt in dollars (even if you hate dollars). This is often confusing to some people ("No you have to pay me in gold"). The reality is I can't be legally obligated to give you gold (more on why in the last paragraph), but I am obligated to pay a fair market value. What is fair market value well that is open to interpretation but most likely the courts would see repayment at current spot price plus some margin to cover the replacement cost (coinage cost, shipping, etc) to be "fair". I can't say " Here is one dollar. It says good for all debts public and private so I no longer owe you that ounce of gold". A more complex hypothetical example (item can't be replaced):I borrow your motorcycle and total it. Oops. You sue me for loss of the vehicle. The courts obviously can't make me return the totaled motorcycle back to you in the prior condition (i.e. rebuild it at the atomic level back into the pre-crash state). The courts can't even make me give you another motorcycle. The courts however can award DAMAGES for the VALUE of a motorcycle, and what form would those damages be expressed in? Why legal tender of course. So you bring in a bill of sale for a new replacement motorcycle and the bill of sale says $18,523.87 the courts could award you damages in that amount. You could then use those funds to buy a new motorcycle or not. The courts don't really care. Courts only care about the VALUE of a loss and award damages based on the value. How this would relate to Pirate:First I don't think this is going to court but for the sake of the argument say a judge found that Pirate owed a plaintiff(s) x BTC. A judge wouldn't award damages in BTC (it isn't legal tender). Plus it creates all kind of difficulties the court doesn't really want to deal with. Pirate "might" (snicker snicker) not have the BTC. It might not be obtainable (maybe he owes more BTC than exist or are available for sale). There may be technical or legal restrictions which prevent him from getting the BTC. This is why in the US (and in US courts) the dollar is "good for all debts public & private". A judge (hypothetically speaking) would award damages in USD based on the value of the compensatable loss. As an example a judge could find Pirate owes 1,000 BTC and agree with the plaintiffs assertion that the current fair market value is currently ~$11 per BTC (no the judge isn't going to go tick by tick) and award $11,000.00 in damages, then levy a judgement for that amount against Pirate. Now this doesn't mean all debt have to be settled in dollars. If both parties agree to settle the $11,000.00 in BTC, LTC, gold doubloons, or even in metric tons of manure that is perfectly fine. However if the parties can't reach an agreement as far as the courts is concerned the original terms, and assets, and contacts have been replaced with a $11,000.00 judgment in LEGAL TENDER. One last wrinkle. This means if for some reason (once again hypothetically and it is hard not to laugh when saying it) Pirate had ~$5M USD but didn't have the ~500K BTC. He wouldn't have to buy the BTC. He could pay your BTC debt in USD equivalent. It actually would be smart to do so (no slippage or fees). As long as he gave you a fair price (like spot price at time of repayment) creditors would have no recourse. Why? Your only (legal) recourse would be to sue him in court. As discussed above even if you win the court is going to award damages in legal tender (USD). WHEW! This is an excellent analysis. There is another wrinkle here. What if the debtor has publicly admitted to the manipulation of the market for the asset in which the debt was denominated? |
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There is another elephant in the room here namely US withholding taxes on interest that has already been paid to Foreign Persons. http://www.irs.gov/publications/p515/ar02.html#en_US_2012_publink1000225127 This can be up to 30% of all the interest paid by Bitcoin Savings and Trust in the past and would be owed to the IRS if pirateat40 did not withhold. It also depends where the "Foreign Person" is located for example: Bitlane (Canada) 0% Chaang Noi (Goat) ช้างน้อย (Thailand) 15% By the way I am not invested at all in Bitcoin Savings and Trust. I am mentioning this because even though I live in Canada, I have been involved with US withholding taxes for close to 20 years, so I would suggest this matter be discussed with the appropriate professionals (lawyer, accountant etc.) by those involved. Aye, there is always a lot to consider in such unknown situations where there is some possiblity of legal proceedings being involved. Strangely, Pirate only asked for an internet handle and BTC address from lenders of the pass throughs and no other info. yet... Would be nice to know what he is up to. Hopefully for their sakes, the whales involved are doing more than just being quiet about the matter. ;p That is what I suspected. In that case it could be 30% of all interest paid by Bitcoin Savings and Trust even interest paid to US persons unless pirateat40 can establish that a lower rate applies because either the person that received the interest is a US person or is in a treaty country. |
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Goat, I apologize for being a douche to you..... I only NOW realize that you are getting fucked just like everyone else, or perhaps worse from the requests of Trendon.
Thanks, it really does suck getting fucked up the ass from someone you trusted... ..and assholes such as myself don't add to the 'discomfort' I am sure. I HONESTLY thought his game was Realestate/Loans etc in the REAL world and I fell for it hook, line and sinker. Where are you located Bitlane? out of sheer curiousity...... Calgary, Alberta, Canada.
3-5 million is untraceable funds makes for a pretty easy disappearance.
He could go live in Jamaica the rest of his life and none of his lenders could ever find him.
Truly "Disappearing" is a lot harder than it seems. Very few people manage to pull it off when there are lot of people looking for them. People who have family have a VERY difficult time truly disappearing. I'm pretty sure he will not be disappearing, I'm pretty sure he wants to play lawyer games. You broke bread with this man (used loosely) less than 2 months ago, yes? And here he is bending you over for all to see. Takes a real fuck-head to pull that off. Yes, He asked me personally to come from Thailand. It was not easy... There is another elephant in the room here namely US withholding taxes on interest that has already been paid to Foreign Persons. http://www.irs.gov/publications/p515/ar02.html#en_US_2012_publink1000225127 This can be up to 30% of all the interest paid by Bitcoin Savings and Trust in the past and would be owed to the IRS if pirateat40 did not withhold. It also depends where the "Foreign Person" is located for example: Bitlane (Canada) 0% Chaang Noi (Goat) ช้างน้อย (Thailand) 15% By the way I am not invested at all in Bitcoin Savings and Trust. I am mentioning this because even though I live in Canada, I have been involved with US withholding taxes for close to 20 years, so I would suggest this matter be discussed with the appropriate professionals (lawyer, accountant etc.) by those involved. |
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a farm sounds like serious mining. i am referring to people with 1-9 gpu making a few extra hundred dollars per month.
i doubt many of us report that.
I mine Bitcoins and Namecoins with 1-2 GPU and I will certainly be reporting my Bitcoin and Namecoin mining income to the CRA here in Canada at tax time. yea me too. if i find a nickel on the ground i report it. in case the eye rr ss is reading thisLets keep this to the tax implications of pirateat40 and Bitcoin Savings and Trust. My take is that if the IRS ever audits pirateat40 dba Trendon Shavers they will have a field day. Furthermore the tax liabilities may well far exceed USD 0.05. |
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a farm sounds like serious mining. i am referring to people with 1-9 gpu making a few extra hundred dollars per month.
i doubt many of us report that.
I mine Bitcoins and Namecoins with 1-2 GPU and I will certainly be reporting my Bitcoin and Namecoin mining income to the CRA here in Canada at tax time. |
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YEAH!  +1 |
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I am not invested at all with Pirate, but I actually expect he will be paying his lenders in full; however even with the 100% expectation of Pirate paying in full I can see why these bonds would trade at a discount.
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There is also the danger that pirate will pay but one cannot move move the Bitcoins fast enough in a falling market in order to sell them. There is a very real danger here of a sharp drop in the BTC / USD price should pirate pay up.
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I do not have a single satoshi invested with pirate; however I am monitoring the pirate drama closely. Why? Because of the potential impact on the BTC / USD exchange rate.
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I have removed my over 30 USD vote as I now suspect that the very large bear may have already covered the short. The price has just been far to stable for the last few hours.
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I am staying with over 30 USD. I suspect a very large bear caught in a mega short squeeze.
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...
Have your relative in Somalia apply for a card and as long as they can access an ATM you can transfer money to them.
Of course using this for small amount international money transfers is a huge market worldwide since the real competitor is not other credit cards and debit cards but Western Union. |
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Why would you buy bitcoins for a fee so you could sell them for fee? That's ridiculous. Literally throwing money away. The debit cards (not credit) will be for merchant and miners who have bitcoin income and would like an easy way to convert to fiat. The people doing what you mention would be very low because it makes no sense to do that.
This assumes of course that the person buying Bitcoin, loading Bitcoin on the card and then spending it can get a debit card in that particular currency at a lower cost. The success of this will come down to that fees when compared to a competitive debit card using only fiat. It is also very useful for someone who has some significant BTC holdings and wants to be able to access these funds easily when traveling for example. For someone in Canada traveling to Europe having a Euro denominated debit card funded by Bitcoin may turn out to be very useful. |
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Here is my prediction:
Pirate will start to refund some tier 1 lenders (e.g. PPT owners) first to spread the good word which will then refund their lenders over some days to come --> New updates on the refunding process trickle in over some days with minimum work load for Pirate himself.
He will continue to refund lenders over the whole week, but less and less as time progresses.
The news on Monday will probably incite further selling, because of the expected dump of repayed lenders.
If he wants to buy back bitcoin his is short of, he will then do it amidst the plummeting.
By the end of the week price will recover for people realising that most lenders have already been repayed and have dumped or because Pirate ran off with a significant amount of BTC that wont hit the market any time soon.
In short: First DOWN than UP! (over the whole week)
I would tend to agree; however I would expect pirate to close accounts in reverse order with his most trusted tier 1 lenders last. First of all this would be consistent with how pirate has done business and secondly if pirate is short and needs to buy additional BTC in the market it would make economic sense to pay off the weakest lenders first since they are the most likely to panic and sell thereby lowering his costs and increasing his profit. |
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