Pirate reality A: He is ponzi. Pirate reality B: He caused this crash by selling btcst holdings, anticipating further crash and then buying back btcst holdings, and returning funds at profit. Pirate reality C: He simply dissolved btcst and other btc holders sold to cause this crash.
If (further) panic selling occurs: Price will fall to 10 area. If he doesn't return funds within week, then (A) is confirmed and price will actually rise slightly as btcst losers will grudgingly dig into pockets to rebuild some bitcoin savings (gamblers gonna gamble). Counterbalanced by a bit of selling from safe btc players with low/zero btcst exposure who expect lessened btc demand with loss of bitcoin's #1 investment, and general loss of confidence. Price will stay in high singles or low doubles for a bit, then resume rise on heels of overall strength/SR growth/dev stability. If he does return funds, then (C) is likely true, we will see a hesitant rise from general relief that btcst was legitimate, counterbalanced by profit taking.
If price rebounds and ONLY THEN does he begin to return funds then (B) is likely true, and we will see a slight decrease in price as profit taking occurs, counterbalanced by relief that btcst was actually legitimate this whole time. Pirate profits, everyone wins except those who sold into his trap.
If price rebounds from present point (12.5ish), and he doesn't return funds, (A) is confirmed and we see rapid buy-up as btcst losers panic buy and btcst abstainers see that bitcoin is so strong that the dissolution of its #1 investment opportunity isn't enough to cause sustained crash. If he does return full funds, then (C) is true, rapid buy-up occurs for same reasons as above, but counterbalanced by profit taking. If he returns partial funds, then we know (B) is true, and the result is a buy-up with slight profit taking counterbalance.
General problem however, is that if he is legitimate, why stop? Some people have suggested that recent price run-up has made his secret operations unprofitable, but what possible operation benefits from low bitcoin price? I have always held the position that it is just as likely that pirate is running a ponzi as he is running a very profitable money laundering business, positions that would certainly explain his secrecy. However, now that he has stopped, it makes me think it more likely it was just a well orchestrated ponzi, because I cannot think of a reason why he would stop otherwise.
Thoughts?
I suspect a combination of B and C
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People think the general public will use bitcoin. Most people cant even understand copy an paste or saving to the network file server and somehow they will understand backing up wallets and recovering transactions. These are the same people who hit print 20 times because their document didn't print.
STOP and look at BTC as a basic computer user would and its overwhelming. One mistake and all you BTC are lost and unrecoverable, it is enough for most to avoid it. The PC as a wallet/bank is also a joke. So many people don't even know their AV has expired YEARS ago and don't install updates because they are to dumb to read the messages about the update on the screen in front of them.
The other choice is to use the system in place now that allows Fraud protections, the recovery of cash through charge backs and FDIC and Europes Deposit Insurance Funds etc.....
The BTC community is full of techies, crypto folks, programmers and the like. This is why it thrives. The average joe/jane doesn't get it and doesn't care to becasue he/she is too busy trying to keep his/her house and feed his/her kids..
How many of you would continue if your country made it illegal to create and use BTC and would sieze your assets if you were caught? I bet almost none of you would risk it. I certainly wont.
This exact argument could have been made in favor of AOL, Minitel and a host of other services over the Internet 20 years ago. Now where are these services vs the Internet today?
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The funny thing is:
If he can actually return all his debts next week (and we should know by Monday) price goes down because 200k-500k BTC are back in the hands of investors and the only way they can take from there is being converted back to USD. Maybe not all of them but at least some 10%. If he defaults/runs off/gets hacked (lol), bitcoin price goes up, because those funds will be held some time before they are dumped on the market by whom ever (probably pirate) some month/years in the future. Meanwhile they are not available on the market for supply. Duped investors may want to restock on BTC and pirate may even try to buy more BTC in order to serve some of his liabilities.
So if they get their BTC back they will run to cash, but if they don't they'll buy up BTC... makes perfect sense . Not to me... if you just lost a ton of Bitcoin it is more likely to become an emotional decision, not a rational one. You won't buy back your coins, you'll quit the scene and pretend to your family and friends that bitcoin never happened. Note the sarcasm eyes. This ignores those who sold emotionally in anticipation of profit taking by pirateat40's lenders. The market today spoke volumes.
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The funny thing is:
If he can actually return all his debts next week (and we should know by Monday) price goes down because 200k-500k BTC are back in the hands of investors and the only way they can take from there is being converted back to USD. Maybe not all of them but at least some 10%. If he defaults/runs off/gets hacked (lol), bitcoin price goes up, because those funds will be held some time before they are dumped on the market by whom ever (probably pirate) some month/years in the future. Meanwhile they are not available on the market for supply. Duped investors may want to restock on BTC and pirate may even try to buy more BTC in order to serve some of his liabilities.
This actually make a lot of sense; however I very much doubt pirateat40 will pay everyone back on Monday as he said in his thread that the closure of BST will take about a week https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.msg605957#msg605957When will I get my coins? Starting Monday I’ll begin systematically closing and withdrawing accounts as coins are transferred. I don't expect the entire process to last longer than a week. The moment your account is closed you’ll receive your coins plus any interest accrued up to the hour it was sent. It is not unreasonable to expect that some of his lenders will decide to take some profits; however there also remains the possibility that pirateat40 is counting on this profit taking in order to buy BTC to pay the rest of his lenders off so there is a chance also of a short squeeze developing later in the week. In short a high degree of volatility. In the unlikely event of a default it would be short term bullish since some profit taking by pirateat40's lenders has already been discounted by the market.
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Ouch... Slightly massive sell-off. Is it caused by pirate40 selling? Whatever it is I am not going to sell Me neither. Its just a panic attack. Pirateat40 selling? I do not think so. I would not be surprised if he is quietly buying in order to meet his BST closure commitments.
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Pirate was essentially a bear play. It made a lot of sense when the price of BTC was falling at over 7% a week with respect to USD. What made Bitcoin Savings & Trust unsustainable in the end was not the interest rate but the rising BTC / USD exchange rate!
If Pirate completes the closure of Bitcoin Savings & Trust as he has indicated this will be a class act on his part. As far as the impact on the bitcoin market it self, what we are witnessing is a very large and deep pocketed bear gracefully leave the market in the face of the bulls. I will leave it up to the reader to form their own conclusions.
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Thank you. I voted 50,000 USD per BTC which for 21 million BTC would translate into 1.05 trillion USD or roughly 5% of world M1.
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There is even the chance that the whole world economy "pops" at once before the BTC price. Anyway the banksters have the same expectations of all the BTC bulls here: From: http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2012/08/a-waiting-game/ : "I don’t think the banks will lend in to the real economy because they calculate that such a socially useful strategy gives low returns to them. Should they ‘defect’ from this generous strategy and chose instead the selfish strategy of ‘hoard and wait’ then they could make not just a large return but an epic one. They could emerge as owners of everything people will need in order to rebuild their lives. Water, power, rail, hospitals, you name it. This is what the banks are waiting for. And our politicians are giving them our money so they can." I have read the article and it begs the question: Is it really the banks not willing to lend or is that many people are not willing to borrow?
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For a 1% of the world M1 money supply one needs a price of approximately USD 10,000 to 1 BTC so I would say none of the above. I would suspect BTC would be quoted on Bloomberg on a regular basis once it reaches say USD 50,000 to USD 100,000 to 1 BTC. Provide options such as USD 5000, USD 10000, USD 50000 and USD 100000 and then I will vote in this poll.
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Hope. No relief until we break 31.89 USD
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Dogs are not going to sniff out the Bitcoins but blockchain analysis combined with more traditional methods such as disgruntled former spouses, employees, partners, clients etc should do the trick for the tax auditors.
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Your poll corresponds with only a fairly static trading strategy, dear friend. I have for example sold and bought many times since 5$. Maybe you should adjust the answering options?
And also consider the case of those like myself who buy goods or services with Bitcoin and then immediately purchase back for fiat the sold Bitcoin in the market. From a trading perspective this actually corresponds to not even .01 and I voted accordingly. For an active trader the question really becomes: Are you a net buyer or a net seller. In particular do hold more Bitcoin now than when it was at 5 USD?
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What I find interesting about false walls is that they can become very real if a long term investor who does not mind paying say 2% or 3% over market simply buys the thing out. If the purpose of the false wall was to induce selling so that a "big player" who is short can cover his short position then the real fun begins.
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MANNHEIM, Germany; BERKELEY, Calif.; and KNOXVILLE, Tenn.—For the first time since November 2009, a United States supercomputer sits atop the TOP500 list of the world’s top supercomputers. Named Sequoia, the IBM BlueGene/Q system installed at the Department of Energy’s Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory achieved an impressive 16.32 petaflop/s on the Linpack benchmark using 1,572,864 cores.http://top500.org/Bitcoin Network Hashrate PetaFLOPS 195.66How can the Bitcoin network hasgrate be more than 10 times, one of the worlds most powerful supercomputers. I cant see how some enthusiasts in just 3 years have surpassed worlds nr 1 supercomputer by 10 times! Is that really correct or are they messured with different methods? They're measuring wildly different kinds of computation - real number (floating point) calculations for weather simulations, weapons simulations, etc etc (for which "flops" [floating point operations per second] makes sense) vs. endlessly repeated integer-based hashing (for which "flops" has not the slightest relevance). STATEMENT BANDIED ABOUT IN LOTS OF PLACES (on this forum and elsewhere): "No way can anyone ever mount a 51% attack, because the Bitcoin network is far more powerful than all the world's supercomputers combined." (or variant wordings with greater or lesser degrees of hyperbole)TRANSLATION TO REALITY: It's a few thousand graphics cards. A mere footnote in the budget of any bank or government that wanted to outpace it. We do need to worry about how to stand up to 51% attacks, 90% attacks... the full gamut. Let's start thinking and worrying now! (My own thoughts: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Proof_of_blockchain_fair_sharing. And yes, I'll say it before anyone else does, these thoughts are still hopelessly unfinished - barely more than started - but I've published them in unfinished form because I want to get as many people thinking about this as possible!) Gavin Andresen has raised this issue in http://gavintech.blogspot.ca/2012/05/neutralizing-51-attack.html
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LOL, Adam are you now really hoping that pirate will crash the price for you, so that you can buy back below your low selling price?
I hope he is not as a pirate default in this market is far more likely to trigger a buying panic than an crash. if pirate is successful the price will drop below 9$ this is what i'm counting on I don't get it. What would he be successful in? A bear raid. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_raid
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LOL, Adam are you now really hoping that pirate will crash the price for you, so that you can buy back below your low selling price?
I hope he is not as a pirate default in this market is far more likely to trigger a buying panic than an crash.
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I feel this will set a bad legal precedent if it goes through. Bitcoin so far has been able to avoid any regulation, because it is deemed "play money" If there is a court case that recognized Bitcoin as a currency, prepare for incoming regulation.
Recognition of Bitcoin as money by governments is only a matter of time. I suspect they will call it "virtual currency" as this is the term used by both FINTRAC in Canada and the FBI in the United States.
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Where the heck do you live that they can charge you $40 tax on a $20 item?
I live in Canada, and ordered a small, $3 laptop fan from a company in the states. Ended up paying about $40 in import fees. "Free trade" my ass. Yeah, "NAFTA" is complete bullshit. Replace "NAFTA" with "UPS" and I would agree with you
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Sent with EMS. From the package: VALUE: 29.99 USD COUNTRY OF ORIGINS OF THE GOODS: Sweden From the Danish postal service import reciept: Value in foreign coin/Total value: 286 DKK VAT on imports (25%): 71 DKK Total tax: 71 DKK Import fee: 128 DKK VAT on import fee (25%): 32 DKK Total: 231 DKK Stupid tax... Is there math wrong or mine? 29.99 should have equaled 181.4395 DKK Where did they pull the extra ~105 DKK from? You reall should ocntact EMS and tell them to fix that. I don't think it's EMS fault since the Danish import service thingy or whatever they are called has valued the package to 47 USD instead of 29.99. Imma call 'em. I would first find out who actually gets the 128 DKK "import fee" before letting EMS of the hook here.
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Which company did they use to send the package?
I have seen UPS mark up $3.50 worth of GST to $53.50 with a $50 brokerage fee here in Canada. They then were the subject of a class action lawsuit. I raised this issue in this post as it is a serious issue that many companies are not aware of. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=74400.msg1080416#msg1080416The problem here is companies like UPS using the GST and VAT as a pretext to gouge people.
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