fyi, shill bidding is a felony in the United states, so there again, whether or not it was a real scam is subject to conjecture/opinion.
sources: My uncle runs an auction house in Little Rock, Arkansas.
It's also a felony to resist the government's violent thugs, and the US is fine with bombing innocent people, so I don't put much stock in the US's view on ethics. what ever, not gonna argue with you. Just to still make it known, I have gotten no contact from garr or any money |
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Sorry dude, at this point, you are wearing the same shirt that Garr is.
Yes i agree. way back on page 8 i was feeling sympathetic with Garr due to that apology letter. i see that 12 hours later he has yet to reimburse starsoccer or to pay the 5 btc as promised. Theymos taking up for Garr is not a wise move from a pr standpoint. That's like a jew taking up for hitler--ok so the analogy isn't perfect, but basically at this point Garr has admitted to scamming and Theymos seems to be holding him to a different standing, possibly due to his role as a trustee of the forum. Garr255 is not a trustee of the forum: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155002.0I only have a mild interest in Garr255's particular case. But I am very annoyed by the incredibly stupid ideas about justice and ethics that many people in this thread seem to have. Garr255's actions were definitely unethical, but it's nothing like a real scam. So it was unethical but not a scam, at least we are getting somewhere. I am quite sure shill bidding is illegal on almost all auction sites and anyone who has dealt with one would call it fraud. |
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Well why isnt he getting a scammer tag or anything then?
I am still waiting for him to follow through on his deal to send me 5btc and nothing.Also i would like to get a response on how you think its okay because he simply didnt say he wouldn't. That is how a 2 year old argues not an adult. If that is how the forum is gonna work pirate deserves his scammer tag removed as he never said he wouldnt disappear. The same goes for Matt.
Pirate promised to pay back people's money plus interest. Matthew promised to pay people who bet him if he lost. Garr255 promised nothing. I do not recognize any sort of implicit contract. Something isn't a binding auction just because it's in the Auctions section. (I realize that some libertarian philosophers do recognize many types of implicit contract, but I strongly disagree with this notion.) If you mistrust Garr255, use the trust system. I'm not going to remove anyone from the default trust network for rating Garr255 negatively. But scammer tags require a more severe crime than just going against the expectations of bidders. Pirate said "Starting Monday I’ll begin systematically closing and withdrawing accounts as coins are transferred. I don't expect the entire process to last longer than a week. The moment your account is closed you’ll receive your coins plus any interest accrued up to the hour it was sent." He never said it wouldn't take 5 years. Therefore i dont belive he deserves a scammer tag. If he would of said it will only take a week then he deserves the tag. He only said he expected it. Which he later posted he was having problems with one client. He also said clearly he closed down. He never said he would give back every coin or anything. I think if we are going with because he never said it as a policy most scammers should be getting there tags removed. For example, the guy who bought 5 coins with paypal never said he wouldnt reverse it. He simply said he would send it. Did he? He sent the coins yet he probably has a scammer tag wrongfully. Also last time i checked an auction has some normal rules. Such as it will run for a finite amount of time and will be sold. I assumed it also didnt allow shill bidding but i assumed wrong. My mistake. Theymos would you mind posting the offical rules of the auction thread so I know from now on what is and isnt acceptable |
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The situation was successfully resolved in less than two days, partly due to my work behind the scenes.
Theymos deems it resolved.  It was cant you tell. He apologize and did nothing. No one got any money as he promised and nothing as changed. so everything must be resolved |
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You (your forum) refused to confirm Werner is Garr's sock puppet for how long?
About 30 hours. Were you starting to go grey from waiting? The situation was successfully resolved in less than two days, partly due to my work behind the scenes. Immediately publishing the alt account info would not have been wise, though I would have published it eventually (as John alluded to earlier in the thread). IP address logs are confidential, but I reserve the right to release alt account info when someone is abusing alt accounts as Garr255 and svbeon were doing. To be clear: I barely know Garr255. I've sent him less than 30 PMs in total, almost all of which were related to forum administration. I chose him as a treasurer because he seemed to have more to lose than any of the other candidates if he ran away with the money. Well why isnt he getting a scammer tag or anything then? I am still waiting for him to follow through on his deal to send me 5btc and nothing.Also i would like to get a response on how you think its okay because he simply didnt say he wouldn't. That is how a 2 year old argues not an adult. If that is how the forum is gonna work pirate deserves his scammer tag removed as he never said he wouldnt disappear. The same goes for Matt. |
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Isn't everything that goes through bitmit automatically escrowed?
No, Escrow isnt required. I simply enabled it as im sure most people would require it. Id obviously prefer no escrow |
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$150 for shipping. its only because I am sending everything in the orignal box and all which is quite large fyi |
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Okay, I am making an open request to Gar255 so I have nothing to hold against him. I ask he does the following:
1. Verify you are still sending me the miner and have intent to so
2. Verify you plan to send the 5bitcoins
3. Confirm you wont ever shill bid your own auctions ever again
Sounds reasonable. I'm sorry for your "loss", but I must ask you one question. Had Garr255 warned people he could manipulate the prices would you still participate in the auction? After all, Garr255 has a right to sell his products for whatever price he would like to, and might've just been using the initial "auction" as a way to gauge the demand for the chip, and then set a price he would be willing to sell at. Most likely not |
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Okay, I am making an open request to Gar255 so I have nothing to hold against him. I ask he does the following:
1. Verify you are still sending me the miner and have intent to so
2. Verify you plan to send the 5bitcoins
3. Confirm you wont ever shill bid your own auctions ever again
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As an outsider, and being bored at work today, I read all of this, and all of the stuff on Matthew's "bet". Now, perhaps I am missing something, but here are the points I see as relevant:
1. Did matthew actually take money form anyone? (from what I could see, he did not)
2. Reading the huge thread on his "bet", I actually found myself laughing quite a bit. How could ANYONE have actually thought that it was serious? It's like watching Reality TV and thinking it isn't all scripted.
3. Where did he "actually" scam anyone? Scamming, to me anyway, would be defined as stealing money in some way. I can't see anywhere this happened.
4. It seems like all the upset people were upset because they didn't get any free money, which they did nothing to get anyway. None "lost" any that they already had. Too me its like giving my friend saying he will put $10 on a horse for me. He ends up not going to the track, so he never bets on a horse. Did I get 10 bucks scammed?
5. Garr OUTRIGHT robbed people. In an ACTUAL auction (in my state anyway) shill bidding is FLAT-OUT illegal. Period. It's like going thru the drive thru, then the cashier adding $5.00 onto your bill and keeping it. Did she hold a gun to your head to make you buy your Doritos Tacos? No. Did she scam you? HELL YES!
6. It is VERY obvious that the apology was a last resort, no way out. "Oh look, I sent a picture of my penis to someone and I am a politician. I can just deny it was me." "Oh look, they tied the picture to my account, shit, no way out of this now." "I am deeply troubled by the penis picture. I am seeking help, and am extremely dissapointed in my own actions." Muhahahah, next time I will buy a disposable cellphone!!
7. Refusing to ban/scammer tag/etc Garr can ONLY be because of some sort of friendship/financial/dating/WOW buddies or some other relationship. I mean what grey area is there here? He scammed, plain and simple, and got caught doing it. And he didn't do it just once either. That Werner account was NOT new.
I am writing this all down though, gonna sell it as the next Netflix Original Series! "The BTC Conspiracy--A 10 part limited series, only on Netflix"
+1 agree totally |
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Are you being serious right now? You're suggesting victimizing the victim again.
Seems like the only logical thing to do. He thinks he was a victim so fine, void the sale. If he on the other hand was not a victim and is happy, well don't void it. But really can he be happy with the deal and be a victim? No, not at all. Are you serious? Its basic logic. A single right now is valued by the market at far more than Starsoccer9 paid for it when he won it. You're suggesting he be given that value back now because either Cognitive would benefit from a straight refund directly and you would benefit indirectly. I'm in disbelief that after all of this even more shady suggestions are being made. The suggestion to fully refund Starsoccer9 and make it look like Garr255/Cognitive/You are the "good guy" is disgusting. Still, it is the most fair and logical thing to do eh?  We need to make the victim whole! He is a victim and he got "scammed", gota fix it! Most fair lol, first off i am a victim. Last time i check bidding up your own auction is something that should not be done, therefore I am a victim. If you would like to refund me then fine, I would like my refund at the current market rate one is going at. I saw one for 20k on ebay and it didnt sell yet so fine send me 25k and its all yours. |
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lmfao
After you get fully refunded will you try to buy your unit back? I was not aware i was being fully refunded. i was aware I was getting 5btc as a sorry for bidding on my own auction I sure hope you get a full refund, even if 5 extra is sent your way. After all you did get "scammed" Need to void that auction. I will pay for it myself if I get the unit. BRB going to send a PM. Well I can tell quite clearly that you want my unit. I do not want a full refund as I do actully want the unit. If he wants to give me a full refund plus 5 I will be a bit pissed about it. If you are interested in the unit feel free to contact me as I would sell it obviously higher then i bought it for. This. This this this. The auction for the one that started this thread was up to a pretty high amount. Garr255 said he would give you:
Although some may view this as a petty offence (as I did previously), I do not any longer. As an attempt to at least partially make up for my wrongdoing, I am offering each of the participants in the auction, starsoccer9 and Vezunchik, BTC5 of my own personal funds, which more than makes up for the financial loss due false bids in the auction. I realize that what I have done is unacceptable, and I do deeply regret it.
BTC5 of his own personal funds. Any attempt to give you a "full refund" now would be another attempt to screw you over. Garr did not say this, but it seems like a good policy They guy clearly got "scammed" he should get his money back in full. Void the deal  No. It's not a good policy at all. It's a policy that would screw over Starsoccer and the other winning bidder again and put more money in Garr255's pocket, or the pockets of Cognitive shareholders - Goat, aren't you a Cognitive shareholder? This is the end result of Allten's auction for the machine, which seemed like it was going over 20k before it was pulled down. That's the equivalent of BTC181 right now. Just noticed that the auction is no longer on ebay. I wonder if the OP got his 25k or decided to mine with it.
Yeah, I just noticed that too but the item isn't available to view like with closed auctions. It's completely removed without a trace. That usually happens when someone complains to eBay about the listing or eBay decides to remove it on their own. I saw that a few times with big actual fireworks listed on eBay. Ebay canceled the listing not me. They want me to "verify" my account with ID because the price is much higher than anything I've ever sold to protect the buyers which is something they are good at. They also want me to prove I own the device by having the manufacture send them a receipt. They also asked why shipping would be delayed if 25K wasn't met. They couldn't understand that. This is a good thing. It gives me a chance to make a listing that doesn't rub anyone the wrong way and using Bitmit which is what I should have used in the first place. Now, do I trust that much money sitting in escrow on Bitmit? Mentioned in one of the answers to the questions posed on ebay, I plan to use these funds to fuel development of a 3rd party BFL chip miner. Thanks, Allten Satisfaction guaranteed or 100% money back is not a good policy? Oh come on now!! That is like the best policy evar! But it is clearly a policy designed to pocket Cognitive the difference in value now that Singles are shipping. Starsoccer9 won the auction for ~ BTC63, Is (supposedly) getting BTC5 from Garr255/Werner/(maybe svbeon) netting him a single for BTC58 fairly, which was recently up for auction at close to BTC184. Agreed, at this point I would be far from happy with simply a refund and 5 coins. The 5coins i am more then happy to take but i did pay for a 64ghash unit(tho is will probably be 60) and I plan to follow through and get it |
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lmfao
After you get fully refunded will you try to buy your unit back? I was not aware i was being fully refunded. i was aware I was getting 5btc as a sorry for bidding on my own auction I sure hope you get a full refund, even if 5 extra is sent your way. After all you did get "scammed" Need to void that auction. I will pay for it myself if I get the unit. BRB going to send a PM. Well I can tell quite clearly that you want my unit. I do not want a full refund as I do actully want the unit. If he wants to give me a full refund plus 5 I will be a bit pissed about it. If you are interested in the unit feel free to contact me as I would sell it obviously higher then i bought it for. |
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lmfao
After you get fully refunded will you try to buy your unit back? I was not aware i was being fully refunded. i was aware I was getting 5btc as a sorry for bidding on my own auction |
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[...]
Why can't theymos just check Werner's IP and see if it equals Garr's? Yeah yeah Tor etc, but if Garr was this careless, he's probably more careless.
Gar's identity is not in question -- he both admitted & apologized. TL;DR: theymos' reply: shilling and socks perfectly valid here. Yes, Garr could have just kept his mouth shut but thought being open was the right thing to do. Garr *has* kept his mouth shut for 2 days, and when it became blatantly obvious that weaseling out is not an option, he fleshed out the "i'm so sorry love me for being honest & repentant 4realz!" boilerplate, and posted it here, signing it with a (mocking us?) cursive font -- the kind you see on all the cheap "so sorry for your loss, can't afford a Hallmark" cards. lmfao |
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Wrong topic..
Wrong topic, or another sockpuppet account?I'm genuinely curious as to why svbeon would be posting immediately following starsoccer9 that "I will be sending you the coins soon" (Sorry for the postimg.org link - imgur is blocked here) Well svbeon or gar dont really care if he is another of your puppets. Ill be waiting at 1EcysP9UmvyW1zdD75noVdb8BVaRA7ZC8h |
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Right now the only person who told me about the 5btc was jhansen858 via a PM. If I would not of read through here i would of never known
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Yes, people really do think you are a scammer. It is not a joke we all tried to pull on you. You cost a lot of people a lot of money while helping pirate sell off worthless debt.
Goat, what difference does it make in this thread weather Matthew is or is not a scammer? Didn't you ask me not to shit up this thread by going off-topic? No, I do not think that was me. And the reason why this is on topic is that Matthew is trying to say cuz he got tagged Garr should as well. I'm pointing out what Garr did and what Matthew did are not the same. They are the same tho. Mattew didnt steal anyones funds. He didnt take funds and disappear nor did he not return money someone gave him. Gar pushed up his own auction requiring me to bid higher and therefor stealing coins that would of otherwise not been stolen. He didnt forcefully make me bid, but he forced me to bid higher to win. Okay and he is giving 5 of those coins back. That's not enough? Seriously? Lets start the auction over. I'd be happy with one of those units for 58BTC I am a victim and still havent gotten anything |
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Yes, people really do think you are a scammer. It is not a joke we all tried to pull on you. You cost a lot of people a lot of money while helping pirate sell off worthless debt.
Goat, what difference does it make in this thread weather Matthew is or is not a scammer? Didn't you ask me not to shit up this thread by going off-topic? No, I do not think that was me. And the reason why this is on topic is that Matthew is trying to say cuz he got tagged Garr should as well. I'm pointing out what Garr did and what Matthew did are not the same. They are the same tho. Mattew didnt steal anyones funds. He didnt take funds and disappear nor did he not return money someone gave him. Gar pushed up his own auction requiring me to bid higher and therefor stealing coins that would of otherwise not been stolen. He didnt forcefully make me bid, but he forced me to bid higher to win. |
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