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1081  Economy / Economics / Re: Untouchable Savings: Do you have it? on: February 09, 2023, 11:38:43 AM
Come meal time, I would also request that the serving be made in half. That's to save money. But I had the money. I always made sure I have some. Emergencies and unforeseen expenses may arise anytime. So I need to have money all the time, but I won't touch it. Ironically, it also gave me hunger, inconvenience, discomfort at times.


To hard for someone to have untouchable saving or declare as it is especially if there earnings is just enough for them to live, if you are in that situation maybe you shouldn't do that since it will really starve you and you cannot get the things that you wanted. But we can do something to have extra income and have what we can declare as untouchable funds and to able not to touch it better separate some amount or even have different jar for emergency funds and other jar for your future wants and needs.
1082  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: 2023 NBA Season on: February 09, 2023, 10:30:21 AM
Holy shit! I’m hearing about the Durant news and this is crazy. The Nets traded him for basically nothing! This has got to be a rent a Durant situation. When Booker comes back this team might be the best in the league. If Ayton can play like he’s capable of they should win it all this year. I can’t believe what a steal the Suns just pulled off. Gonna have to grab myself some tickets.

They want to take advantage of their current situation this season because there are possibilities that they will gonna be knocked out again if they don't add some star players to their team. Currently, they are number 6 and if they gonna get well with KD in their rosters, they will gonna improve it more since they are now having more players that are capable of helping them get to the NBA finals again.

Any team who will get Durant will surely become a championship team. Durant is one of the best players in the NBA now, he could be number 1 if he was healthy, unfortunately, he is prone to injury now. However, if he gets traded with the Suns, I think Durant will not have to carry all the burden as he has Booker who is also a scoring machine, which he can rely on.

Still all matter depends on his teammates since they didn't work together with his old star teammates. They have Irving and Harden way back then plus Simmons has been added but it end up not good because his star teammates became liability to them since they are not cooperating as a team. But since he is paired up now with Booker and CP3 maybe this will be different since CP3 can have two option to pass the ball since he have best shooters in team to rely on.
1083  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: I am a General Newbie. on: February 08, 2023, 01:07:24 PM
For the past 6 days I've been in this platform I've seen many ideas and helping hands spirits circulating round this forum. I must admit the spirit of growth revolve in this group in so much.
As a newbie, I've been left with a confusing situation many times, sometimes due to the Trading Terminologies, Abbreviations and so on. With the spirit of being a man in me I come up with these plea, that my brothers and sisters here should help me carry along with the trading system so as I can as well grow like you.

General abbreviations or other information's you need can be search in google and there are more info's you can research there if you want to do deep analyzing the strategies used by certain traders. Also don't rush to put up some amount to invest on your trades learn more first to sharpen up your skills and also read up the links and suggestions provided by fellow user on this thread since that is helpful for your future trading career.
1084  Local / Pilipinas / Re: ang LELE GOLD ay official ng shutdown on: February 08, 2023, 12:13:46 PM
dapat risk taker ka, anuman ang mangyari walang problema dahil yung pinasok na pera eh yung kaya mo lang mawala. Pero advisable pa rin na kung mag invest ka rin lang naman sa crypto eh doon na tayo sa less risky kahit matagal makita ang resulta, atleast may chance talagang kumita.

Personal opinyon ko din eh ganito, kung mag iinvest ka rin lang naman at hindi ka naman ganun kadami ang pera mo, mas mainam
na mag invest ka dun sa medyo kilala at meron na talagang supportang nakuha.

Mahirap kasi yung mga katulad nung nasa OP, sandaliang kita tapos mandadamay ka pa nung mabibiktima pag nagkalecheleche na
pangalan mo pa yung nakataya dahil nga sa pag invite mo na mag invest din yung mga kakilala mo.



Kahit na risk taker tayo ang hirap naman din talaga magtiwala sa ganitong ponzi scheme style programs since kadalasan nito is short term lang. Kikita ka lang ng malaki nito if hardcore promoter ka talaga since makaka earn ka ng malaki sa referral pero kargo de konsensya mo parin yung mga na invite mo since sila yung malaki ang tyansa na matalo. Kaya maging wais nalang talaga at kung gusto man ng iba na mag venture sa crypto mas mainam nalang talaga na mag deep research sila ukol dito at pumunta sa mas matinong platform.

Maraming information ang available at kailangan lang talaga ng individual na mag research para magkaroon sila ng kaalaman.
1085  Economy / Gambling / Re: ▄■▀■▄ 🌟BITVEST.io🌟 💰WIN BY 🔶PLAY 📈INVEST➡🔺🎲🎰🔲 | BET CONTEST ▄■▀■▄ on: February 08, 2023, 10:39:36 AM
Not really they stop the campaign when they got delay issues and maybe lightlord decide to stop this to avoid any problem in this community since many forum members talk about negative when delays of payments are piling up on their campaign. That gives them negative impressions for a while and it really create a noise here because this is one of the oldest campaigns they run. But since those issues are done maybe they could launch this again since they need to attract back their old players to play their casino again.
Even Lightlord decide to re run their campaign, I don't think people will welcome about it because this issue is the second time, there's a chance might happen in the future. Also the payrate is really small and lead to spam, someone need to create 60 posts in order to get same payment with the other campaign which only need to create 20 posts. How much they will pay for the member rank tier E now? 100 satoshi for every post? it's similar like claiming faucet every hour Grin

Well its up to them if they stick on their old pay rates since for sure reputable members will just ignore it but for sure there are still forum user will give a shot especially those people who didn't get accepted on high paying campaigns. But also its up to them since either maybe they also done with their campaign since there last campaign really give them huge problem which affect the reputation of their casino and for having no updates here maybe they are done with this forum and find another platform maybe get some exposure.
1086  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: 2023 NBA Season on: February 07, 2023, 12:47:59 PM
Valid thoughts, possibly that he has really done it on purpose and the timing was perfect. He's known for that whenever there were some issues before about him.
Instead of the potential history that Lebron is about to make, he's become the talk first before that happens. Possible also that it's just mere coincidence but as we all know, everything and the timing was totally perfect.

I do know and am well aware that Kyrie Irving does really have an unusual character since then and does crazy things unexpectedly out of the blue, and even has a toxic attitude to everybody, with no expectation, but your guesses are maybe too much and really insane to think.

Asking trade just to try not to be overshadowed in the news because of Lebron James' hype in breaking a big record this week? That was funny to think. Grin

It's not even a coincidence. It's just that it happened simply. No need to overthink that.
That's just an assumption and it's timely to think of but yeah, let's just spare that moment for him and Lebron as both are having their own highlights for this season.
Anyway, I'm seeing a lot of memes about Kyrie on what he has said during his early days in the Nets that he won't leave 7. It's just a meme and we know change is constant but those were really funny ones.

Kyrie just love to move in different teams, well, he has that liberty because he is really good, and just like what happened, even the Lakers are trying to join the trade but the Nets ask too much for them so they cannot get Irving. Now that he is on his new team, even if he'll promise that he will retire being a Mavericks player, we should not expect that, and that would also help the fans so they'll not be hurt enough once Irving will leave.

If Irving will renew his contract with the Dallas Mavericks, then he might likely stay for a while.
He's not happy with the management that's why he choose to ask for trade. But since he land on a Dallas which have good management maybe he might like to stay there especially he has  Luka which is proven to be one of the best and their current rooster is solid already. If Kyrie decide to leave after his contract end maybe kyrie just only want to make his name create noise again. If he keep doing that I don't know if there's still a team will get him in future even if he is so good.

But its speculated that after his contract with mavs he will not sign and decide to go with Lakers but let see if this happen.
1087  Economy / Speculation / Re: Can I invest my 60% savings in Bitcoin? on: February 07, 2023, 11:41:59 AM
bitcoin can Crashed again Below $20K Level or Not ?
how much Probability for Down ?

suggest please I can bear some Loss but Can,t afford 100% loss  

waiting for all expert members suggestion?



Actually you can do it if you are sure about what you are doing and already have knowledge on cryptocurrency especially on how to trade bitcoin since this could make you earn more money. But if you are a total newbie which maybe it is then try to learn first how to trade because if you invest immediately without expanding your knowledge then provably you will be scared easily when you see a red line currently running in the market. Remember that 60% is a huge loss for your savings so think about it for many times if your knowledge is enough and if you are confidence already on your trading skills.
1088  Economy / Gambling / Re: ▄■▀■▄ 🌟BITVEST.io🌟 💰WIN BY 🔶PLAY 📈INVEST➡🔺🎲🎰🔲 | BET CONTEST ▄■▀■▄ on: February 07, 2023, 10:15:51 AM
As for their marketing, the campaigns that they've done before were effective and made them popular. The inactivity on the forum by the owner might have some impact but we don't know the reasons behind it. As long as there's someone that operates it and likely from the forum as well but no longer active too, just wishing all of the players here and there to not experience such problems.
It could be that the signature campaign promotion that they had done before was very effective and managed to make it a casino with enough users and well-known that they felt they had really succeeded and stopped the campaign.
But what they don't realize is that every time there are new casinos and other old casinos, they are also always developing or promoting continuously to become more popular casinos, so by stopping the signature campaign that they were doing before, they lost the competition and lost in popularity by other casinos.
So from here they have to reconsider more attractive promotions and they also have a team that can develop and try to work as hard as possible to get success back.

Not really they stop the campaign when they got delay issues and maybe lightlord decide to stop this to avoid any problem in this community since many forum members talk about negative when delays of payments are piling up on their campaign. That gives them negative impressions for a while and it really create a noise here because this is one of the oldest campaigns they run. But since those issues are done maybe they could launch this again since they need to attract back their old players to play their casino again.
1089  Economy / Reputation / Re: SBF-Ross Ulbricht on: February 06, 2023, 11:50:49 PM
For Bible believers, All sin are equal in the sight of God. And in our normal society no one is above the law, So if someone has committed an offense that is punishable by law, be it killing, armed robbery, cyber crimes or Fraudulent practices and in one way or the other be a sponsor to such things, Then if found guilty the offender should go face the law and if it involves going to the prison or jail, the person should be there to learn some lessons. The bottom line is wether SBF, Ross Ulbricht no one is above the law and both should go to prison if found guilty of their acts.
Everyone is equal before the law but some people can be specially treated by the law. The law is unbendable but the humans that interpret and enforce the law can be manipulated. Don't forget tht SBF donated both to the Republicans and Democrats and his parents are highly connected. All these facts can influence the judgement which might lead to a short sentence or long sentence with paroles. Ross Ulbricht was just a commoner that wanted to promote privacy but he did that for the underworld making his business immoral. He is not also politically connected and this led to a very harsh punishment.

Sometimes influence cannot be used if the case is so strong and many people following the updates towards the criminal who do the crime to many people. And in case of SBF I don't think those powerful man willing to attach their name to them because it can ruin their polical career so most provably only SBF is the one who's helping self and for sure once the case will be tackled again by the authority this man will be totally sent to jail.

Its just those people who get affected will continue to seek for justice so that this man cannot escape for the frauds he done to many people around the world.
1090  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Share Tips For Newbie Traders on: February 06, 2023, 11:58:40 AM
Trading can be a lonely and boring business at some point because, you do not have anyone to talk to and are just alone with your computer, phone, or tablet in your room, just trading. And many newbies may at some point think that they are probably wasting too much of their time. If you are in this situation right now, I want you to know that you are not wasting your time.

If you are an experienced trader reading this, how did you know that you were not wasting your time trading at the time when you felt this way?

You only get bored if you don't have passion for this activity but if you love what you are doing for sure you enjoy every movement of the market and get challenge when certain situation occurs.

Maybe you or some other get bored with it because they didn't get the expectation on trading's and only people who lose their money think that this is only waste of there time then think about abandoning it.
1091  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: 2023 NBA Season on: February 06, 2023, 10:26:53 AM
Yeah, he should perform well and be enough with the drama but I think that he'll go along with Luka and hopefully they'll have good chemistry.
And prior to this trade, it was a few moments and seconds for the Los Angeles Clippers to take him but then the Nets declined their offer.
Well, that's obvious as the trade of Dallas for them is much better than what LAC has offered for Kyrie. I can't wait to see how Kyrie will play with his new home.
Luka has needed some help for a couple of years now, but the mavericks paid a hefty price tag to obtain it. Let's hope the 2 superstars can get some sort of chemistry going fast. Going to be interesting to see how Luka can handle not being the go to guy any longer.
That's true, it's also been said for a long time that he really needs someone's help and there it goes through Kyrie. Hoping for the best of the two, and yes, it's really all about the chemistry because we've seen a team that's full of superstars but yet still didn't take any ring.
Chemistry is the key on their team and let's see how they'll be able to adjust to that and everyone is very optimistic with this addition for the Mavs.
It's a risky move by the Dallas Mavericks but it's worth a try though. By the way, for the information of everyone, Irving's contract will expire in less than a year, so it will give Dallas a huge problem if he will not sign with the Dallas. Well, I don't want to think of the negative possibility, I'm hoping that they'll play well so they have a shot of winning a championship together.

Good thing about what trade done with the dallas is they will not only rely Luka's performance they have Kyrie now who can score more points. This duo can produce good numbers already but the problem there will be there defense since if you look at there current line up maybe they might get trouble on defensive end. But for sure they can work this out to make this rooster successful.

Many people wait what will be the performance of Luka and Kyrie since both of them is also a ball dominant player.
1092  Economy / Economics / Re: What do you think will happen if... on: February 05, 2023, 11:39:20 PM
whatever will happen in the future, if big investors stay away from bitcoin this could lead to a very sharp drop in price, if investors release all their assets
and it will be normal if they keep their assets where there will be many newcomers to crypto and want to keep it. the transaction will continue even though the price will not move fast

That will be the real case to happen especially if those institutional investors have huge influence on social media for sure their announcement of departure will give big effect of bitcoin and might we will see huge number of people including lowbies will go out in the ecosystem. But this is almost impossible to happen since we know bitcoin gather a reputation has a place on financing system so maybe we can see this to continue and more country will adopt it.
1093  Local / Altcoins (Pilipinas) / Re: MIR M: Vanguard & Vagabond bagong version ng MIR4 NFT game on: February 05, 2023, 11:44:37 AM
Magtatanong lang po sana ako kasi di ko pa nasubukang maglaro ng MIR4 at eto na naman may lumabas na namang bagong version in which sabi ng mga reviews sa YT ay maganda at okay din daw ang kitaan, kaya medyo duda ako pag ganyang mga reviews. Nakikita ko kahit sa mga comments ay medyo nakakaduda. Kakaglobal launch lang po nila noong Jan. 30, 2023 kaya itatanong ko sana kung worth it ba mag laro(game wise) ?? kasi andami kong nabalitaan nung sa MIR4 na pahirapan daw sa grind dahil sa bots at daming PK. That time axie lang nilalaro ko at dahil nga sa mga balibalita nilang ganyan daw MIR4 di ko sinubukang laruin.

Eto po yung link sa google play : https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.wemade.mirmglobal&gl=US

PS. Di po ako nagpopromote nitong laro nagtatanong lang po ng maayos kasi di ko pa nalaro kahit kailan yung MIR4, asking lang po ako ng opinions at feedbacks nyo salamat  Smiley.

For me di ko gusto ang graphics nito pero yung iba naman nagagandahan da laro its just personal preference nalang talaga kung ano ang magandang laro para sayo at kung na eenjoy mo ito.

Sa kitaan naman wag ka mag expect na kikita ka ng malaki sa larong ito since mostly naman sa una lang talaga nagkaka profit sa nga ganyan kaya siguro mainam na enjoyin nalang talaga ang laro at wag tingnan ito as alternative source of income dahil baka madismaya ka sa resulta.
1094  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Boxing: Nonito Donaire vs Jason Moloney on: February 03, 2023, 12:58:24 PM

I'm not sure though if Donaire is thinking retirement, I never heard from him telling the public about his plans. Even after Inoue knock him out, he still want to chase greatness at 115 lbs against Estrada, but now he chance his plans.

He still wants to fight, but I believe he mentioned that he wants to retire as a champion, so he would like to get a belt again, and with what happened. I don't know anymore if Donaire can still have a championship fight soon, seems like the chance is not fair for older fighters nowadays.

Quote
Perhaps we should give him like 2-3 years to fight or less than that before he thinks of hanging his gloves for good.

But right now, the opportunity is there so why not take it.

But he cannot wait longer, he needs to be active to have more fights and to test himself if he still can dominate in this division.

I haven't seen a boxer who quit on top though, I mean if he becomes a champion again, I doubt he will just say's no I don't want to fight again. So obviously, it's up to the result of his next fight, whether it will be against someone like Rodriguez or Gaballo.

2-3 years might be quite long enough for his career, he is already 40 years old, and once a fighter reaches that age, sooner or later his body will be very different because of the effect, the wear and tear of being in this business for many years.

You are right, there's a lot of opportunity when you are a champion, so why would a boxer retire? It doesn't make sense, if he does really say it, then I think he has a different mindset, he values his achievement more than the money he will potentially get in future fights. Of course, there are boxers who retires during their peak, just like Mayweather.

If he retires then he might lose millions of dollars in the bag since he cannot get that anymore if he decide not to take fights. So I think what he did right now is a smart move since while still he can keep accumulating while there are still big offers to you and he can make his future more secure with that. Maybe its better for OP to close this thread now since Donaire vs Moloney  is no longer happening and there's nothing to discuss about more further updates regarding this match.
1095  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin hitting it's target on: February 03, 2023, 11:13:53 AM
Today I was so glad because I was stressed free all because of Bitcoin.
To cut long story short, I went to pay the hospital bills of my younger brother who has been in the hospital for about 1 week now and I have to pay the sum of 500.000.00 naira based on no cash in my country ( Nigeria ) you will have money in your bank account but you can't withdraw from any Fiat bank. So there's scarcity of money in the country for now. So based on that I asked the  doctor if I can pay the hospital bills with Bitcoin and he said yes. So I was surprised based on my first experience paying bills with Bitcoin. To cut long story short letter That's day I paid 0.046591 BTC
I will say Bitcoin is going so far it's hitting it's target.
If people starts using Bitcoin as form of payment in there businesses it's will reduce stress.
Why do I say it will reduce stress?
Because you won't be counting fisical cash anymore and you don't have to carry any money to the bank.
So please you guy should try and stork Bitcoin because very soon it will be used as form of payment in all businesses.


This is how bitcoin supposed to be used by people but unfortunately some government entities in the world doesn't allow this to happen since maybe they cannot get benefits by accepting this. If global leaders could just recognize the usefulness of bitcoin and blockchain it can make our life more easier and as well we can get additional investment option so that we can grow individually in terms on financial aspects. For now its good to accumulate but remember that you still consider how you need bitcoins since if you need money to use then don't regret to use it at in any time.
1096  Economy / Gambling / Re: What do you appreciate more Desktop or Phone on: February 03, 2023, 10:14:39 AM
The desktop version is more visually friendly compared to phone screens due to the screen size and grsphic formant, so for me, I prefer a desktop to a phone even though we have more advanced technology and gaming tablets with wider screens.

So my desktop or nothing else has been my chioce for a long time now.
never that you played in Mobile or Tablets? I don't think that is fair to say because  we all have some options specially depend on the availability of our desktop.

I also love playing in big screen but I also love trying them in mobile at least once  there are new site that attracts me.
both desktop and phone have their advantages and disadvantages and both are very good to use according to the current situation. like I said in the previous reply.
maybe someone who is always at home or working at home, maybe the best option is to gamble using the desktop. but for those of us who are often outside the house it's impossible when we want to gamble we have to go home first. so the best solution is to use a phone or tablet when you want to gamble while outside the home.

so both are equally well used in certain situations.

This two options will defer depends on what position are you on since you cannot play with desktop if you are away from your home so people who always go outside can appreciate the phone since this is also can give them more convenience. Also with introvert people they can also experience the cool experience brought by playing in a casino using their pc since they can see a the wide view of games and enjoy the live music which adds the entertainment while they are playing.
1097  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Boxing: Nonito Donaire vs Jason Moloney on: February 02, 2023, 12:28:38 PM
Update:

Jason Moloney has withdraw from this fight, so this fight is cancelled.

Quote
“The WBC has received confirmation from Top Rank that [Moloney] will not be fighting for The WBC bantamweight title,” WBC president Mauricio Sulaiman confirmed to the teams for both boxers via official letter, a copy of which was obtained by BoxingScene.com. “With this letter the process of [Moloney] vs Donaire is hereby cancelled."

https://www.boxingscene.com/jason-moloney-top-rank-no-longer-pursue-wbc-title-nonito-donaire-awaits-next-named-opponent--172190

Too bad for Moloney to not have a chance for the belt because of the 'war' between his promoter Top Rank and Nonito's Probellum.

Because Bob Arum thinks that the company, Probellum has ties with Irish Mob boss Daniel Kinahan. So let's see what route Donaire will take in order to have another belt in his waist.
This doesn't sound good. We're all expecting that Moloney will have no problem on this one. Who's going to be the potential match-up then if Moloney is already out for the match? Too much politics we've got nowadays even in the high ranking officials inside the big boxing organizations and promotions.

Yes many expect that fight because somehow this is good match up since it can determine on who among them is best fighter after they got defeated by Inoue. But since Moloney withdraw well this doesn't sounds very well on fans of Moloney and Donaire. For sure Donaire's camp will seek for replacement and well lets wait for the update about who will be their next target so hopefully they can get another good fight since fans expect more better from Donaire and his potential opponent.
1098  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: My greatest fear about Bitcoin Halving. on: February 02, 2023, 11:47:48 AM
Bitcoin halving is characterised by price boom and this is a general believe of some bitcoiners and members of this forum.
My greatest fear is; what if 2024 halving comes and go without any kind of bull run? Don't you think that there will be a serious problem and panic in the industry?
This is because 2024 halving is the greatest available hype that can move the market. Besides that, I don't see any possible wave that can move Bitcoin to a new ATH. Unless US government will have to make BTC a legal tender.

Bitcoin halving from the past didn't get any decline and always it follows with a bull run so we can expect that this will also happen since many other people will think about it also. The beliefs of the people will converted to demand that's why we see the price keep pumping so don't expect anything bad about it since for sure we can see great price pumps when halving happens. Nobody want to left behind about it and some people are now accumulating and maybe this is the reason why the price is slowly pumping at the moment.
1099  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: 2023 NBA Season on: February 02, 2023, 10:03:35 AM
Yeah, he's should get 30 for the remaining games and he'll definitely there and we all will witness history  being mae. I've seen a trivia about his stats for the recent game that he's the first at his age to do a triple-double.

What's more interesting is that as he's approaching to hit those numbers. How much the price for the ticket will be for every close possible game that he'll make it.

Lebron James is so much invested in getting that record, Stephen Curry has gotten the most 3 points in the NBA and likely giving it extra mile in the years to come, I think if Lebron James would landed on that number he will surely still be willing to still play to further add to that numbers so the next one to likely want to break that record will have a hardtime, passing it,

I don't really know the price for the tickets but surely most fans want to watch history as Lebron James is about to break a record,
I think that his stay won't be anymore about record breaking. If he's able to break a record, that would suffice him as he's already made a history and with his stay.

I think the main reason is for him to play together with his kids and that's all. Whether 1 or both of them gets into NBA with the same team, the joy that he's got is there and at the same time the record is still there too.

Its all about record breaking since he could seal up his legacy and leave a good track once he retire. He is almost the end point of his career so for sure all he care right now is to break those records because it can bring all the glory to his name then maybe he can convince the other who doubt that he is the goat. Maybe its only a second priority to play with his kid since this is not big achievement but he maybe want to leave a mark to his kid about their experience playing with their father together.
1100  Economy / Economics / Re: Is taking a loan/debt addicted ? on: February 01, 2023, 12:51:16 PM
Well, I have to clarify that personally I have never had any loan or debt in my life so this thread has nothing to do with my experience but intends to find out how people in loan/debt deal with the problem. Let's say you take loans from a bank and sometimes for whatever reason, you can not pay the debt on time, then you borrow money from other channels. Sure this works for a certain period but later bad things may happen, you have to postpone the payment and struggle with finances again. Isn't this a vicious circle ? How would you deal with the problem ? I am all ears.

Yes it is especially if you don't have anywhere to go like no other income streams to fill those loan up for sure you will go to that option because you think it can save your ass from your existing loans. But this is really a bad behavior considering that you might get more bigger debt because the percentage of loan became more higher.

If your seeking for solution to end this cycle then negotiate to the person who lend you some money and state the percentage you can only afford to them and don't take any loan from other for sure you or your friend can get over with this.
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